Proper food amount and losing weight

[BillGraves]

I have a 5 yr. old GSP and am feeding him Diamond Premium adult food. He was 63 lbs when I got him so I am giving him 3 cups (as per recommendations on the bag) in the morning. This has gotten rid of most of his gas problem (I think I was over-feeding and created gas) but now he looks too thin. His ribs are showing and just looks too thin in the rear. If I give him more, he gets bad (wicked bad) gas. I am not giving him more than usual exercise and his stools are solid. Any thoughts/recommendations?

[vzkennels]

If you cut back his food intake & he is loosing weight then I would say it's not enough food.Might need to change food to cure the gas problem.
Has he been wormed or checked for worms lately?

[BillGraves]

Just had worm medicine and finished 2 weeks ago. Stools are good so I'm not thinking it's worms again. Does anyone here make your dog food yourself and NOT feed store bought food?

[mcbosco]

The fastest and easiest way to get rid of gas is by feeding enzymes and probiotics with food. Some foods already contain them but most don't. They are very cheap, totally safe and work immediately. A year's supply is about $25. I use Nzymes Bac Pac Plus. I find my dog eats less using it and its filled with beneficial bacteria.

Enteric Peppermint helps too and you can get that at a health food store.

[mcbosco]

Second part of the question: I feed 50% low grain, commercial and 50% raw. The raw component can be green tripe, raw egg yolks, a complete frozen food, chicken necks, beef hearts, yogurt and mixed trimmings. If I had to pick just one raw food to add to commercial food it would be green tripe. It is filled with bacteria, enzymes and has good levels of protein and fat. It smells like holy heck but your dog will love it.

[bossman]

Please remember that the recommendations on the dog food bag are only that, recommendations. Some dog's will require more, some less. While I believe in supplementing when necessary and know that Nzymes and Bac Pac Plus are excellent products, I'd agree with VZ and take a look at the feed your giving your dog. While I realize that many on this board feed the same feed ( and respect their opinions), it may not be right for your dog. I know many that have had the same experience (gas,etc) that you are having. If you work your dog, hunt him, etc. I'm also a believer of feeding at night.
certainly do not want to start another discussion on dog food. But if you like what your feeding, give the supplements a try for a month or two. If you see no improvement..change food , get a bigger house or keep scented candles burning all the time...I'd opt for a change in food.

[BillGraves]

Second part of the question: I feed 50% low grain, commercial and 50% raw.

How much Tripe is 50% for you?

[mcbosco]

I would say on the days he gets just green tripe with the commercial its about 1/2lb. I partially defrost the 2lb chubs and slice into 8 rounds and then stick them in the freezer, so they are roughly 1/4lb each. Tripe is about 800 calories per lb.

I try to mix it up so he gets raw food of different types at each meal but he generally gets 2 cups of Abady with the raw per day, which is about 1600 calories. There are days where he gets only a complete raw mix.

[Drifter Saver]

I have 8 dogs between my kennel and house and I feed the Diamond Premium with very good results. They are all pointers and GSPs with my largest GSP weighing in at about 65 pounds. For what it is worth, each of my dogs gets about 4 cups per night.

[Hunter]

Dont go by whats on the bag, not all dogs are the same wether its the same breed or not. I can tell you this, I used to feed diamond to my 8 shorthairs nad I had the same problem and by the time I was putting weight on I was feeding way to much. Try Black Gold dog food, I actually feed less than what thier bag calls for and my dogs look great, as I feed between 3 and 4 cups depending on the dog and all are heavily in training. Look for a black gold dealer near you as I guarintee you will love it and the price is great.

[A/C Guy]

Just had worm medicine and finished 2 weeks ago. Stools are good so I'm not thinking it's worms again. Does anyone here make your dog food yourself and NOT feed store bought food?

We tried home cooking, but our female wouldn't eat all her veggies, so we decided to go back to a mixture. We supplement our store bought food (Sportmix or Van Pattens Ultra) with chicken, beef, pork, or fish. Whatever is on sale for $1.50 to $2 /lb is bought for the dogs and cooked medium rare. We mix 2/3 dry with 1/3 real meat by volume. Their weight is good, high energy, good stamina, clear eyes, bright and alert and no dry, itching skin. Stools are solid. We also give them beef bones weekly. We found rawhides loosen their stools. So we don't buy those anymore.

I think an all meat raw diet is missing important components (looking at coyote and wolf stools, I've seen many berries and grains), but dry food is akin to cereal. I wouldn't want to eat Cheerios 3 times a day every day even though it has all the necessary vitamins and minerals.

[ezzy333]

I think an all meat raw diet is missing important components (looking at coyote and wolf stools, I've seen many berries and grains), but dry food is akin to cereal. I wouldn't want to eat Cheerios 3 times a day every day even though it has all the necessary vitamins and minerals.

I agree but thank God our dogs don't agree with us. They thrive on the same feed everyday and the more you change them the worse it gets for the dog. I think a small piece of meat or liver is great as a treat but once you start supplementing on a regular basis you have just lowered the minerals and vitamins that are formulated into the feed. The other thing that shows up in feeding trials is when we feed something different everyday they no longer are getting the well balanced uniform diet that they thrive on. One day the protein may be 35% and the next 25 and the same with the fat and fiber in the daily diet.

We can show that the digestibility improves when the total diet is ground and then incorporated uniformily into each nugget or pellet of the feed compared to just balancing the particles of the different ingredients.

All things to think about,

Ezzy

[BillGraves]

I didn't want to go all raw. I was thinking about a 50/50 or as far as 75/25 in favor of the commercial. I know the commercial foods are well balanced and are designed to give a dog all they need but I was just concerned about the gas, for one, and the fact that he was losing weight. I have been giving some chicken necks and some raw eggs with the shell in addition to his regular dry food to put some weight on him and it seems to have done the job...he is looking much better. Still a little rib showing but his muscles look good. Thanks for the input

Bill

[mcbosco]

did you find the tripe?

[BillGraves]

Yes, thanks a bunch. I didn't order any yet...still searching around and found a local butcher I didn't call yet but know he has it fresh!

[Hattrick]

For what it`s worth, i feed Purina rice an chicken to my 8mth GSP.. I also have a 11yr old over weight rottey who sheds horribly an has really dry skin for years, so i switch her food to Purina also her shedding stop an her coat looks like silk an lost weight... I was turned on to Purina by the breeder i got my GSP from, with the resolute`s i seen from my rotty i`m sold.. As they say the proof is in the pudding.. bad thing its $$$

[mcbosco]

well share the info I would like to know how much he charges because I just bought some at $1.65lb

[big steve46]

well share the info I would like to know how much he charges because I just bought some at $1.65lb

Are you bragging about paying that much for dog feed? What kind is it again? I might want to get some myself for me.

[mcbosco]

I am not bragging. $1.65lb for raw tripe is about normal in NJ. I was lucky months back, a guy near me was having a goat slaughtered and I got it for free but I used it all.

[big steve46]

My father, until he died in 1984, was a raw furbuyer for 35 years. He always had several hounds, and all they ate thru the winter months into the spring was coon and possum carcasses. The rest of the year, he fed them hogfeed pellets. I don't ever recall him buying dogfood. His dogs always looked good.

[mcbosco]

My wife threatened to leave if I fed Mickey another whole rabbit, but she said that about the third shotgun too..... :roll:

[ezzy333]

My father, until he died in 1984, was a raw furbuyer for 35 years. He always had several hounds, and all they ate thru the winter months into the spring was coon and possum carcasses. The rest of the year, he fed them hogfeed pellets. I don't ever recall him buying dogfood. His dogs always looked good.

Those hounds aren't as smart as a setter and had no idea that hog feed was almost all corn and would kill a dog. Ignorance allowed them to do well and look good plus there wasn't dog food readily available back then. Most dogs lived on corn and scraps of whatever they could find. Ours always got milk, which even though we now know they can't digest, worked so well back then that we had to limit how much they got. Corn, milk, and table scraps, makes you wonder how there are any dogs left today to enjoy the high priced feeds made by unscrupulous manufacturers.

Ezzy

[mcbosco]

My grandfather told me he used wads of chewing tobacco to de-worm his dogs, man those were the good old days. A little Redman and you were good to go.

[postoakshorthairs]

My grandfather told me he used wads of chewing tobacco to de-worm his dogs, man those were the good old days. A little Redman and you were good to go.

I heard that as well. Actually my grandfather let me try some of his redman when i was ten and told me it would "get rid of the worms". The only worms i got rid of were in my stomach when i turned green and puked.

[ezzy333]

My grandfather told me he used wads of chewing tobacco to de-worm his dogs, man those were the good old days. A little Redman and you were good to go.

I heard that as well. Actually my grandfather let me try some of his redman when i was ten and told me it would "get rid of the worms". The only worms i got rid of were in my stomach when i turned green and puked.

Have heard the same story and had the same experience only uncle instigated. Wonder just how many on here have had that same result in their past.

Ezzy

[Sharon]

My Dad used it too.

He was breeding beagles in the 50s, but he was poor - 7 kids.

Every Friday he met the man who took food in his truck to construction sites etc.

Fridays it would be thrown out. My Dad fed it to the dogs - bread, salads, hamburgers. raisin tarts. The dogs always looked great and had an abundance of energy. No skin problems ever. Sometimes you have to wonder ......

[ezzy333]

My Dad used it too.

He was breeding beagles in the 50s, but he was poor - 7 kids.

Every Friday he met the man who took food in his truck to construction sites etc.

Fridays it would be thrown out. My Dad fed it to the dogs - bread, salads, hamburgers. raisin tarts. The dogs always looked great and had an abundance of energy. No skin problems ever. Sometimes you have to wonder ......

Not the dreaded raisins!!!!!! Just think about it, back then we had never heard of food allergies or that dogs had to eat raw, and yet today we hear about dogs practically everyday that has to have some special feed because they have sensitive stomachs or out right allergic. And yet to this day I have never experienced the phenomena and have fed hundreds of dogs.

I am not trying to say that it doesn't happen rarely but I am also convinced that you find what you are looking for and today with all of the marketing hype trying to convince us that their feed is better than the other brands we have a bunch of brainwashed new owners who have been taught that their dogs are either human or at least need to eat like they are and if you don't feed like that the poor dog will suffer all of these terrible maladies. We have become a society that are looking for problems instead of studying the subject, using common sense, or relying on the experience of people that have had years of experience. Guess we need to just keep spreading the word and possibly someday the message might get through. Just don't hold your breath!

Ezzy

[mcbosco]

The reason is overprocessed foods and people afraid of exposing dogs to the elements. You might think I am some candy-butt yuppie but you would be suprised. I don't vaccinate like most people do and I like the fact that my dog eats stuff with tons of nasties in it. That is what keeps an animals immune system functioning. Dogs eating raw is evolutionary standard.

Years ago dog routinely ate wild animals raw and it was thought to be somewhat normal. Now, they run to the vet for 2 weeks worth of Baytril.

I am much more old school than you and Bigsteve think.

[mountaindogs]

Aybody on here heard about the hookworm hypothesis? I wonder if our dogs used to have hookworms midly most of the time, with occasional dewormings to keep the numbers down. Now, they get hearworm prevention and have no chanbce for hookworms to establish at all.

And the milk, and half the other stuff was not pasturized. And the "byproducts" had actual ingredients in them without everything taken out first down to the last potentially marketable drop. And dogs had a lot more infections, parasites and whatnot to deal with. Perhaps the developed better immune systems early on. As you read the old books, fleas were "kept at bay" but never really entirely absent. Sarcoptic mange was not rare, and the mange treatments from old still work well on sarcoptic which we rarely see anymore but poorly on demodex which is an immune problem more than a mange problem. Then again who knows. I am slowly beginning to think we ouselves and and our dogs need to challenge our immune systems more and give them(the immune systems) back their jobs. But I digress.
On the food: I agree that a mix of commercial and fresh is my ideal. I feed raw bones with meat on, sometimes deer legs and such with fur and hooves. If it's organ or muscle meat I lightly cook it. Sometimes just drop it in boiling water and then poor it over the commercial food. They get there commercial daily and the other 1 or 2 times a week, not really 50/50 more like 50/10. I also agree strongly that if you have to feed a ton, you need a higher energy food. Look at the calories and not just the protein. And some food is just digested better. Find what works and hope they don't "cheapen" the formula or increase the price.

[mountaindogs]

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_o ... 38b8d6fb17 This is a scientifc paper on the hookworm hypothesis.

This is a poorly substantiated regular site for the rest of us. Strange is disturbing. Makes my gut hurt alittle thinking about it, but also does make you think. and not want to think :roll:

http://www.asthmahookworm.com/

[ezzy333]

I am slowly beginning to think we ouselves and and our dogs need to challenge our immune systems more and give them(the immune systems) back their jobs.

Now just speed it up and you are on the right tract. The by-products you speak of are largely the same as always. They are nothing more than what is left after the product that is being taken from them has been extractwed. If they use different methods or take more from them then they have to change the name. For instant linseed oil meal comes in two forms, squeezed or mechanically seperated or chemically seperated. Both are available. Soybean Oilmeal is the by product of the soybean oil extraction and so on. Each by-product has to meet a strict nutritional level just as the finished feed does. But you are right when you say our dogs and our kids are not exposed to the things they used to be and we pay for that with an immune system with nothing to do.

Ezzy

[mcbosco]

"But you are right when you say our dogs and our kids are not exposed to the things they used to be and we pay for that with an immune system with nothing to do.

Ezzy"

So why do you snicker all the time about things like raw food? You know as well as anyone that commercial products are 100% sterile and I don't think you really believe that feeding a dog a few pounds of raw meat and organs a week is going to imbalance anything.

[ezzy333]

"But you are right when you say our dogs and our kids are not exposed to the things they used to be and we pay for that with an immune system with nothing to do.

Ezzy"

So why do you snicker all the time about things like raw food? You know as well as anyone that commercial products are 100% sterile and I don't think you really believe that feeding a dog a few pounds of raw meat and organs a week is going to imbalance anything.

Sal,

I have never snickered at raw food. You are the one that says it is better than a dry feed and that I take exception with. Feeding raw is fine if you want to go to the trouble and expense and you know what the pitfalls might be.

And I do know, and you do as well, that no ingredient is sterile whether it is for our dogs or our personal use. When 5 rat turds per 100 lbs is allowed in human grade grain I doubt if you could ever call it sterile. And the ingredients we use for dog food is not normally human grade which says nothing more than it isn't stored or handled the same and probably is exposed to more impurities. Thats the only difference normally and has nothing to do with being better quality nutrition wise.

Feeding raw is fine but you do not get the balanced nutrition you do with a manufactured feed so it probably won't produce the consistant results of a well balanced formulated dry food. And that may not be important till you start competeing in the major trials and shows with your dog.

Ezzy