Explain something to me? Kcal per cup

[nanney1]

I've read and heard that Kcal per cup is not necessarily a meaningful number. But I don't know why.... As opposed to metabolizable energy, digestible energy, and Kcal per pound (which falls under ME)

Let's look at it this way:

Product 1 has ME listed as 4237 Kcal per KG, 1937 Kcal per pound, and 473 Kcal per cup
Product 2 has ME listed as 4310 Kcal per KG, and 435 Kcal per cup. But a cup is a cup, right. So, in terms of numbers, product 1 has more Kcal???

I guess somewhere along the line, the size and density of the kibble matters. So a smaller, denser kibble will weigh more than a larger, more puffed (for lack of a better word) kibble. And somewhere a long the line, a 50lb bag is a 50 lb bag, and size and density of the kibble will only equal 50 lbs at some point as they fill up the bag.

But, and here's where I can't get a handle on it...... I feed by the cup, not by the pound. I use a 16 oz 2 cup scooper that has a line in the middle at the 1 cup line. So, If I fill it up level to the top of the scooper, I know that I'm feeding two 8 oz cups of food. I have no idea how much it weighs.

So, If I'm feeding by the cup, isn't Kcal per cup a meaningful number to me???? Or am I really feeding by the pound whether I realize it or not? Looking for insight on this subject.

[Greg Jennings]

What really matters to you is how your dog is doing on the feed. Feed as much food, however, you measure it, as needed for the dog to maintain healthy weight at a given level of activity.

If you are interested in comparing how much food costs, then, since you buy the food by weight, you'd be interested in kcal per unit of weight.

[mcbosco]

It is meaningful to that particular food (so you know how many calories you are feeding) but its not when you compare one food against another because of kibble weight/size differentials.

When comparing two foods use weight not measured volume to be more precise.

[nanney1]

O.K. so that's where the calculated Kcal per KG comes into play. I don't need to weigh a cup of one kibble vs. a cup of another, just look at the published info.

Basically, Product 2 has slightly more Kcal per KG than product 1. So, product 2 is more dense???

Yeah, I know, you have to look at how well the dog digests the foods, so it's sort of a meaningless comparison also.

By the way, I'm very happy with the food I'm currently feeding in terms of how much my dogs like the food, coat quality, energy, convenience to purchase, and the firm stool it produces in my dogs. Also, there is uniformity from bag to bag in terms of the smell, color and shape of the kibble. I have no reason to change. Unfortunately, I think the cost is a little too high.

So, I'm constantly looking for a better value that will yield the same results. I really don't think I'm going to find it though.

[ezzy333]

Lets try to explain what is important but we will start at the end of your questions.

So, If I'm feeding by the cup, isn't Kcal per cup a meaningful number to me???? Or am I really feeding by the pound whether I realize it or not? Looking for insight on this subject.

Cal per cup is meaningful as far as knowing how many cals you are feeding when you feed by the cup. But it is not a figure you can use to compare to other feeds primarily because of the density thing you mentioned. Before we leave this subject though. I am not sure how meaningful cals are for you to know how much to feed your dog daily. Reason is you don't know how many cals your dog needs daily. Every dog is different and the range of cals needed is quite large so the ONLY way ,with out spending many many dollars to have your dogs tested in a lab to know how much they need is to look at the condition of your dog. If his condition is right, and you find out you are feeding twice as many cals as the bag says you should, are you going to cut his feed in half or are you going to keep feeding what the dog needs? I hope you will still feed the dog what he needs. And also, even though some feeds try to convince you that their cals are better than the others, so you can feed less, that just isn't true. Cals are just a measurement and quality has no effect on some being better than others. That's like saying a pound of is better than another pound. It's just a measurement.

Product 1 has ME listed as 4237 Kcal per KG, 1937 Kcal per pound, and 473 Kcal per cup
Product 2 has ME listed as 4310 Kcal per KG, and 435 Kcal per cup. But a cup is a cup, right. So, in terms of numbers, product 1 has more Kcal???

The answer is Product One has more Kcals per cup but not per pound or per bag. The confusion comes because we buy feed per bag or per pound and then feed per cup. We buy by weight and feed by volume. Let me try to explain the fallacy of this. Product one is a nice small 50 lb. bag of unpopped Popcorn. Product Two is a nice very large 50 lb. bag of popped Popcorn. Both bags contained the exact same amount of popcorn. Since the popcorn is sold and bagged by weight you will have to pay 10 dollars for each bag. Same number of lbs. and the same number of calories per bag. And also lets say it takes 1 lb. of popcorn to supply the cals you need. So you feed one dog the un-popped corn and you have to feed 4 cups to get the pound you need which in turn gives you the cals the dog needs. Dog No. 2 gets the popped popcorn. It needs exactly the same number of calories as the other dog so you still need to feed 1 lb. of feed but how many cups would it take to provide that pound? My guess would be about twenty. So you end up feeding your dog 20 cups of popped and 4 cups of un-popped. The feeds are exactly the same both in weight and calories, but you have to feed 5 times as many cups to one dog as you do the other. But the un-popped bag would show 5 times as many cals to the cup as the popped.

This is what happens when you compare cals per cup in one feed against another feed. It doesn't mean a thing as far as comparison between two different feeds since you buy them by the pound(weight) but are feeding by cups(volume). And in all honesty it means very little even for you to know how much to feed since every dog is different and needs different amounts because of its metabolism, size, activity, temperature, coat, and a host of other variables. The conclusion to all of this is that no two dogs need the same amount of cals each day and there is no single dog that needs the same amount each day during the year.

So I will leave it up to you to decide how important Kcals are to you but I can tell you it means little to your dog. I will have to admit I have no idea what the cals are for any feed I have fed over the years as I have never looked. It's just another marketing tool that gives you an idea of the density of the feed and possibly a little about the quality of the feed but in the over all day to day caring of an animal it is a useless figure since the condition of your dog is the only thing that really says how it is doing and how many cals it needs. One of my old sayings is that you are feeding the animal and not the feed. I think that is the difference between the experienced people who are responsible to condition an animal and the ones that are responsible for feeding an animal.

I know this is long winded but I hope it helps explain why some of the figures are published and kicked around a lot by people who feed dogfood but have little use or meaning to those that feed and condition their dog.

Please let us know if there are still questions and I will try to answer in a whole lot less words.

Ezzy

[Greg Jennings]

If that food isn't breaking your wallet, my advice would be to stick with it. There are a whole lot easier and less frustrating ways to save money.

Greg J.

[nanney1]

Right now, I'm paying $40.99 plus tax for a 37.5lb bag of Pro Plan All Life Stages Chicken and Rice 26/16. With one young dog, it wasn't really a concern. But now my 21+ lb and growing mixed breed puppy is eating just as much as my 90lb young adult. At this point, I don't know if the pup is going to taper off or keep eating.

I'm probably getting close to the point where I can send off my weight circles for some $7 Purina rebate checks. So that would get the cost down to $33.99 per 37.5lb bag.

I can get locally (all in a 50lb bag):
Sportsman's Pride 26/18 for $21.75
Sporstsman's Pride 30/20 for $25.75
The Pride 24/20 for $18.95
The Pride 26/20 for $25.95
Diamond Premium 26/18 for $21.95
Diamond High Energy 24/20 for $18.95
Sportsmix Energy Plus minichunx 24/20 for $25.95
Sporstmix High Energy minichunx 26/18 for $25.95

The Pro Plan is working very well, and I don't really want to change, but those prices in a bigger bag have me thinking about a change.

[ezzy333]

I have fed the Diamond as well as the Sportsmixproducts and they are good feeds as is Pro Plan. I like the Diamond Premium real well and it is cheaper. But the Sportsmix did well to. You definitely could bring your cost down a little by changing feed but probably would not improve the condition of the dogs. I would do what you feel comfortable with but I would probably make the change in your circumstance, much as I hate changing a dogs feed if they are doing well on what they are getting fed.

Ezzy

[caleb]

I've read and heard that Kcal per cup is not necessarily a meaningful number. But I don't know why....

Kcal is a measure of energy given off in the form of heat when an object is burnt. 1 Kcal is about 4.18 Joules.

One reason that all calories are not created equal is that inedible objects have calories. Wood, oil, and bone are examples of stuff that has lots of calories but aren't edible/digestible.

If you grind up a bunch of inedible junk like bone fragments or corn cobs and put them in dog food, you'll boost the number of calories (because they'll burn) but the dog won't get any benefit from those calories (because he can't digest them).

Further, some types of calories are made of more complex molecules than others requiring more energy to digest. So, imagine that one 500 calorie cup of dog food requires 50 calories to digest when another requires 100 to digest. The first gives the dog 450 calories to use for activities other than digestion while the latter only gives him 400. The complexity of the food has some effect, too.

So... that's the long way of saying that it's a good idea to watch your dog and feed to keep a good weight. Calories tell you something, but not nearly everything.