Lupoid Dermatosis

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Highway Ends Kennel
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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by Highway Ends Kennel » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:43 pm

DGFavor wrote:
I agree that carriers can be bred to non-carriers in order to improve certain desirable traits that might not be as available in other lines. The problem/concern I have is how do you guarantee one of the carrier pups that is born is never bred to another carrier down the road? Even if you can avoid that, how do you guarantee that the 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc. generation offspring that are carriers are never breed to another carrier? I know that all of the pups would not be carriers but there’s a good chance a few pups in each litter would carry the recessive gene. It seems like at some point you would have to neuter or fix any carrier off-spring in the litters to guarantee that the recessive LD gene is not passed on or worse, that two carriers are not bred down the road resulting in off-spring afflicted with the disease
No doubt humans are the weak link in the system. Diligence is key, test the litter before you sell them. Don't sell carriers to folks not interested in being educated on the subject and demonstrating a significant sense of responsibility. Say no to squirrelly people - period. Fail proof? Not...nor is any breeding of seemingly healthy dogs. If you have a carrier, it's a no-brainer, any potential mate must be tested...even if "my lines don't have it". I have tons of inquiries from folks to breed to my dog that just disappear when I tell them their bitch has to be tested, they have to show me a negative test, then the litter has to be tested...either it is too much of a headache for them (which I totally understand) or they don't want to know the results of the test in their own dog...in which case they should not be breeding anyway. If for some reason the test "went away", not able to perform it, the lab closed down, etc. - we'd be forced to just not breed a good number of stellar dogs. As it stands now, with the knowledge currently available, this is a perfectly manageable deal for folks willing to do it the right way.
Doug,

Thanks for the reply. I guess for my own peace of mind I'd want to neuter/fix any offspring that were carriers before they left my possession. There's just not enough "DGFavors" and "Elkhunters" out that that I would trust to always do the right thing :D :D
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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by bruns333 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:03 am

If you test the litter and it has carriers couldn't the breeder at least in the AKC registration just sell them on a limited registration? Sure the owner of the dog could breed it anyway, but the litter could not be registered. If you sold pups that were not tested from carrier/non carrier pairing then sell them all on a limited registration and that can be converted to a full after health testing has been completed. I think those are 2 ways to prevent problems down the road and still be able to breed really great carriers. Do other registry's have this sort of limited registration?
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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by Elkhunter » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:48 am

bruns333 wrote:If you test the litter and it has carriers couldn't the breeder at least in the AKC registration just sell them on a limited registration? Sure the owner of the dog could breed it anyway, but the litter could not be registered. If you sold pups that were not tested from carrier/non carrier pairing then sell them all on a limited registration and that can be converted to a full after health testing has been completed. I think those are 2 ways to prevent problems down the road and still be able to breed really great carriers. Do other registry's have this sort of limited registration?
Matt
They do, but what if the best specimen in the litter is a carrier? Should he/she not be bred? Obviously I think the standard for breeding a carrier should be SIGNIFICANTLY higher than a normal breeding.

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by bruns333 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:00 am

I don't know or have all the answers, but the idea is to rid the gsp of this disease. Eventually you have to stop breeding carriers, but in the beginning until the gene pool of non-carriers is larger it would be wise IMO to manage the carriers by testing.

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by bruns333 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:07 am

I just sent in 2 more blood samples for my other females yesterday to have the LD test completed on them. Now I will keep my fingers crossed that they come back clear. I want more choices of non-carrier males to breed to in the future.

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by ACooper » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:38 am

Is our gene pool small enough that we have to breed carriers?

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:06 pm

ACooper wrote:Is our gene pool small enough that we have to breed carriers?
There may be reasons to breed carriers but it sure isn't the size of the gene pool. One thing you all have to be aware of is the breed will always carry the disease as long as people breed the carriers. I understand what Doug is saying and doing, though I don't agree. There are wonderful dogs that are carriers but there are many dogs just as good that are not carriers. I sure do not see the need to breed a carrier when there are alternatives that are just as good. I think you are compromising when there is no need to.

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by ACooper » Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:16 pm

I agree Ezzy, I have gone back and forth on this issue. Elkhunter and I have discussed, and I DO see Doc and Elks point. I would also never say they should or shouldn't breed to whatever dog they choose. But, I am torn on this issue. I see a common argument for breeding carriers is to carry on a line, I might choose to breed to a brother/sister who was not a carrier to carry on a line.

I do admire the fact they have done their homework and tested all the dogs and pups involved, that is the only responsible thing to do.

On a side note, has anyone else heard of issues with the LD test throwing a good number of false positives?

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:27 pm

Yes I have read that,& and believe it's on GSPCA site some where or was.I don't believe they have the test down to perfection as of yet.I also have read that when you try to breed to eliminate one disease others
will eventually take it's place & examples were given for other diseases & breeds.I think we have to admit we are not GOD!!

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by Jagerdawg » Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:46 pm

ACooper wrote:On a side note, has anyone else heard of issues with the LD test throwing a good number of false positives?
Coop if you log into the GSPCA website and got to the bulletin board there is an article there on the LD test and the issues with it. I don't know how to link it.

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:32 pm

Here is what I get from reading the information put out there by the Vets that came up with the tests,disease,etc.On one hand they are telling us how terrible the disease is, how to test for it & how not to produce pups with the disease.
We all know it's a terrible nasty disease that should be avoided,now these same people also tell us that avoiding breeding dogs that are carriers is not the answer because it can cause other problems.

This causes very big different believe between breeders & owners there is the side that says don't breed any carriers & the side that says don't breed 2 carriers to each other & both side think they are right.
If you believe in the tests & the people that came up with the test & studied this disease & they say carriers should not be eliminated from the gene pool tell me how you believe in one but not the other?
You can't have it both ways either you believe in those Vets & Drs or you don't!

I guess what I'm saying is it's not as SIMPLE as it sounds!!

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by bruns333 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:36 pm

As for problems wit the test, to the best of my knowledge and doing some digging there has been one sample out of over 800 that hasn't been explained. One result was reversed after they found that the machine reading results misread it so they went back and by hand/eye checked ALL the past test and only one has not been given a reason as to why it came back different from the two test on the same sample. IMO people are bringing this "1 out of a 1000" up because they want to discount the test and turn a blind eye to this nasty disease in our breed. This disease has been around for too long and not nearly enough breeders are doing what needs to be done to fix a problem that cost $75 per test/dog.

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by Elkhunter » Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:39 pm

I think the amount of carriers being bred is very very very very small.

I was having a conversation about this today, and I see literally dozens and dozens of litter postings from dogs that have done absolutely nothing in their lives being bred. Not trialing etc, but not even hunting the dogs, just absolutely nothing. And being bred all the time, and no one says a WORD!

Yet we bred a multiple time CH, a dog that is wild bird hunted more in one year than most dogs hunt in a lifetime and everyone has an opinion. Yet no one says a word about the dozens and dozens of untested/unproven dogs that get bred every year.

I think the GSP breed has a bigger problem of untested and unproven dogs being bred than exceptional carriers being bred.

Last year I was asked by someone in my town if I wanted a GSP pup they bred, neither dog had every hunted or been out of the backyard. That too me is significantly more of an issue than breeding to an exceptional carrier. Just my opinion though!

I have a great clean LD free male that I plan on taking as far as he can go. I got exactly what I wanted from the breeding.

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:07 pm

The Vets,Dr's,Scientists.that came up with the test & studied this disease have said that carriers SHOULD NOT be eliminated from the breeding pool.So if you believe any of what they say you have to believe all of it.

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by Cajun Casey » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:31 pm

It came down, when they first started getting samples as a witch hunt and the disease is still not fully understood as far as the affected systems. There is a recessive key to the full blown condition is the best that can be determined.

Personally, I think the dogs carrying color genetics foreign to the breed are more detrimental than LD carriers.
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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by PONGO » Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:37 pm

Hi All!
I am Pongo's Mom. Pongo was born on July 21, 2007 and started showing signs of LD in Dec 2007. It is a terrible disease and I wish it on no one/dog. I have become very attached with all of the dogs and owners that I have located and it is so terrible when they have to be put down. Pongo is alive I believe due to the fact that I treat Holistically and won't give up on spreading the word. I was lucky and knew it was Lupus (my friend and I found a small blerb about Lupus in an old GSP health book) and fought with the vet to do a skin punch to confirm. Back then research was still being done and I had not heard of it before nor knew about Un of PA and Dr. Casal.
I of course wish Pongo was healthy and lived a normal life, could go in the sun, go swimming, run in the weeds, etc, but I tried to turn his situation around and look at him as a blessing that I can educate people and spread awareness. He is such an awesome GSP. He has the best nose that I have ever encountered on a dog.
All I ask is that everyone please test prior to breeding, educate the purchasers of the puppies and educate everyone with a GSP that you encounter.
The facts are yes you can breed a Carrier to a Non Carrier and produce 50% Carriers and none will be affected. But really how can you guarantee that all of the Carriers will not be bred or bred to a Non Carrier. I just personally want this disease stopped. We have a test for a reason, thank goodness we have a test now. Yes we should also test for color etc. Again, we have these tests for a reason.
Unfortunately the dogs that have been put to sleep is because they went misdiagnosed for years and were treated with heavy drugs and were still given vaccines (which weaken their immune system even more).
Please take a look at Pongo's FB page and don't hesitate to contact me with any questions. I am not a vet, breeder, nor do I show. I am just an animal lover and want to help other dogs.
His FB link is https://www.facebook.com/PongoGermanSho ... interLupus

Thank you!!!

Kerstyn

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by PONGO » Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:47 pm

I forgot to add that this is more wide spread of a disease then most people think. Also, the test is 99.99% accurate via blood sample. The initial test by Penn Genn of 10 dogs were samples redone from a previous place. Those samples could have been contaminated etc. If you go to the GSP Org page you will see the reply regarding the testing and the explanation.

Thank you again!!!

Kerstyn and Pongo

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:02 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:The Vets,Dr's,Scientists.that came up with the test & studied this disease have said that carriers SHOULD NOT be eliminated from the breeding pool.So if you believe any of what they say you have to believe all of it.
Not really true Ted. I think I will continue to judge each statement on its own. I have some friends that are great mechanics but I don't accept everything they say about which car is better, They don't even agree between themselves.
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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:24 am

Ezzy I agree to a point but it's kinda like this if you take a lie detector test & that lie detector says you lied on some questions & told the truth on others,then you would agree on the true answers but say the ones that said you lied were wrong.

It can't be both ways either right or wrong like the law we don't argree with all laws but it's still the law.Everyone has their opinion but it's still just an opinion & the experts on this subject say just because a dog is a carrier does not mean
the dog should be eliminated as a breeder.I personally have my own opinion & it don't fit either because I don't believe any of them know much more now then they did to start with.But that's me I don't trust Drs all that much I have been told by family & friends I take after my mother on that subject she avoided Dr"s because of trust & they never made her feel any better then she could on her own.I have reasons to believe how I do many of them & by the way my mother lived to be 89 she was the toughest person I have ever known MAN or Woman.I won't live that long but I will die pretty much intact & I take care of my dogs as I do myself.

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by Cajun Casey » Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:17 pm

PONGO wrote:I forgot to add that this is more wide spread of a disease then most people think. Also, the test is 99.99% accurate via blood sample. The initial test by Penn Genn of 10 dogs were samples redone from a previous place. Those samples could have been contaminated etc. If you go to the GSP Org page you will see the reply regarding the testing and the explanation.

Thank you again!!!

Kerstyn and Pongo
I have followed Pongo's page for a while and really admire your dedication. Is there a link to the information you could provide?
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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by hi-tailyn » Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:59 pm

Elkhunter wrote:
bruns333 wrote:If you test the litter and it has carriers couldn't the breeder at least in the AKC registration just sell them on a limited registration? Sure the owner of the dog could breed it anyway, but the litter could not be registered. If you sold pups that were not tested from carrier/non carrier pairing then sell them all on a limited registration and that can be converted to a full after health testing has been completed. I think those are 2 ways to prevent problems down the road and still be able to breed really great carriers. Do other registry's have this sort of limited registration?
Matt
They do, but what if the best specimen in the litter is a carrier? Should he/she not be bred? Obviously I think the standard for breeding a carrier should be SIGNIFICANTLY higher than a normal breeding.
How many of us have and brag about having Dixieland Rusty in their pedigree.

Then all of those dogs have a chance to be carriers. Those that are some what line bred Rusty, really need to do testing.

In early 2000's Katie Tazza started the search for a test for LD. Many of the dogs at the GSPCA Nats had the chance to do free testing and there was a report done the following year stating there was a higher chance to be carriers of LD.

The Rusty line was one on that list.

There are several breeders that know this and are testing and doing well selected breeding's and producing some great dogs. It is up to breeders to test and choose wisely who you breed together.
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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:37 pm

Yes I talked to Katie on the phone & she sent me 6 kits to test the dogs I was planning on breeding,that has been yrs ago I never heard a word about any of them.I haven't bred all of those dogs but have bred 3 or so.
Like I said never heard a WORD,NOTHING,I never sent any money was supposed to be free but makes me think it was about the money.JMO but I don't like BS & to me that's what it was.

I look at it like this if it wasn't important enough to let me know SOMETHING then it wasn't imprortant!! Still feel that way.

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by Jagerdawg » Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:43 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:
PONGO wrote:I forgot to add that this is more wide spread of a disease then most people think. Also, the test is 99.99% accurate via blood sample. The initial test by Penn Genn of 10 dogs were samples redone from a previous place. Those samples could have been contaminated etc. If you go to the GSP Org page you will see the reply regarding the testing and the explanation.

Thank you again!!!

Kerstyn and Pongo
I have followed Pongo's page for a while and really admire your dedication. Is there a link to the information you could provide?
not sure how to link it. It is on the gspca members only website on the bulletin board.
Blind Test for LDAugust 14, 2013 - POSTED BY Missy Neal POSTED IN Bulletin BoardThe German Shorthaired Pointer Club of America has continued to work with the University of Pennsylvania (UPenn) on breeder recommendations for the Lupoid Dermatosis (LD) genetic test.  Due to questions from GSPCA members about the (LD) genetic test from earlier testing, the GSPCA has completed a limited blind study with the University of Pennsylvania.  Ten dogs previously tested by cheek swab, from both show and field lines and with both clear and carrier results, had blood samples submitted on a blind basis for re-evaluation.  Two of the ten dogs retested had different results – in both cases the cheek swabs indicated the GSPs were carriers, while the blood tests indicated the GSPs were normal.Due to the results of the blind study, the GSPCA is taking a neutral position on the LD Genetic test. A final research paper is yet to be published by researchers at UPenn and explanation by UPenn of the blind test results have been sent to be distributed to the membership.   Dr. Casal's statement is included in this bulletin (scroll down). The  GSPCA board and GSPCA health and welfare committee recommends breeders discuss the test and its usefulness to their breeding programs with PennGen.The contact information for PennGen is: PennGen, 215-898-3375, PennGen@vet.upenn.edu.  GSPCA Health and Welfare CommitteeApproved by the GSPCA Board (June 30, 2013)To The Health BoardThe Lupoid Dermatosis test was originally a marker test, which we published.  Due to the inherent inaccuracies associated with marker tests, we continued our search for the actual mutation, which we then discovered.  This allowed us to develop a direct, accurate test.  In the meantime, we have run close to 800 blood and cheek swab samples sent in by various breeders and owners, and we are in the process of getting the results published.  A blind test was performed because there were questions as to the validity of the DNA test for Lupoid Dermatosis.  Ten blood samples were sent in that had previously been submitted as cheek swabs. Of the ten blood samples that were sent in, two appeared to have disparate results from the cheek swab testing.  One of the samples was originally reported as a carrier and on retesting using a blood sample showed to be a normal dog.  We reviewed the original results and saw that it was incorrectly reported.  The reason for the discrepancy was that the testing machine read the sample as a carrier.  However, on looking at the results by eye, the sample could be identified as a normal dog.  The second sample is still under investigation and we will report the results as soon as they are available.  We have now gone back and reviewed all of the ~800 results by eye and they were in fact reported correctly with the exception of the one sample discussed above.  We know that the test results affect not only the animals but also the owners, and we are making every effort to ensure our results do not impact either in a detrimental way.  Therefore, we will be only accepting blood samples at this time for the following reasons. Several years ago, we made the submission of cheek swabs available in response to the breeders’ requests for convenience.  Cheek swabs are more likely to be contaminated by food, cells from other dogs, nursing puppies, and even human hands.  Because of this, we often need to extract DNA twice or three times from the swabs in order to obtain enough high quality DNA for the test.  The more contamination that has to be removed, the more chance there is for human error.  Blood samples allow for streamlined testing, as they go directly from the dog to the machine. While we realize that this may be slightly more inconvenient for the owners, this will also lead to more rapid and efficient reporting of the results.  The Lupoid Dermatosis test is accurate, as long as the label on the sample identifies the dog from which the sample was obtained.  In general, DNA tests for genetic diseases are considered the most accurate diagnostic tests available in veterinary and human medicine.  However, human errors can occur with the best of tests and are mostly related to misidentification of samples and very rarely due to a malfunctioning instruments.  We are working hard to not inconvenience anyone and are confident that our test detects those diseased and at risk as well as those that can pass on the disease.  This has already been extremely helpful for many individual dogs as well as for breeding programs. Margret Casal, Dr med vet, PhD, Dipl. ECARAssociate Professor of Medical Genetics, Pediatrics, and ReproductionSchool of Veterinary Medicine, University of Pennsylvania3900 Delancey StreetPhiladelphia, PA 19104-6010Phone: 215-898-0029    Fax:215-573-2162casalml@vet.upenn.edu

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by PONGO » Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:58 pm

Thank you those that have been following Pongo! It looks like someone put the link up for the explanation to the testing that everyone disputes, thank you!
I just want everyone to test, please. And educate others. The cost to send blood to Penn Genn is only $75 and I feel well worth every penny. Do you really want to be responsible for breaking someone's heart when they end up with a LD dog? Or a childs heart? I have had to talk to other owners when their LD dogs have to be put down and their children, it is so heartbreaking :(
I am very lucking that I am stubborn and treat Holistically and Pongo is doing ok. Our original thought was that we were going to breed Pongo and Diesel, even though they are pets. They have awesome hunting lines. I am okay with this as no longer an option because I am an animal lover.
I have tons of research and hours and money put into stopping this disease. I don't even want to think about how much money I have spent on Pongo. I spend hours every day speaking to people of LD dogs and trying to help them to save their dogs. I also spend hours on posting about Pongo to get awareness out.
Again I personally feel no Carriers should be bred, but that is my opinion. If you want to breed a Carrier to a Non Carrier, then how can we come up with a 100% guaranteed way that this disease will not continue? I am open to any and all suggestions. I just have not heard of one yet that I feel is fool proof.
Please understand that I do not want to argue with anyone, just come up with a solution. I was so happy to hear that this topic came back up!
Thank you!
Kerstyn and Pongo

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by gsp-fan » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:24 am

Great post Kerstyn and Pongo. Keep educating and hopefully more breeders will realize what this disease is all about

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by markj » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:05 pm

So besides rusty line, what other lines may have this?
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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by bruns333 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:11 am

MarkJ,

You will have a hard time getting folks to admit their dogs or lines are carriers or have produced the disease. Unfortunately not a lot of dogs have been tested and it seems that most of the testing are in the show lines. I have tested all three of the females that I own or co-own and 2 of the 3 came back as carriers. The problem with tying it to a line as you don't know which parent or grandparent it came from in most cases. Until most folks start testing for this it will be in shadows and not addressed.

Matt

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by PONGO » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:00 pm

It was recently brought to my attention that if I register Pongo and his brother then I can list them on the OFA as LD affected and Carrier. I am going to research this more and do it. Trying to come up with names. Thinking Pongo LD 1 and Diesel LD 2 are the best so far that people have suggested. At first I was thinking Pongo Shorthair Lupus and Diesel Lupus Carrier. Thoughts from anyone?
Also, I just scanned all of the pedigrees that I have on him (I have a ton on his Mom's side, but only his Dad's papers and no further back). A friend is turning them into jpegs for me so I can post them on his FB page for anyone interested. My brain was hurting from trying to figure out who was who (Great Great Grandma etc).
Thanks as always for any and all input and support!!!

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by lvrgsp » Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:20 pm

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Last edited by lvrgsp on Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by hi-tailyn » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:48 pm

Lupoid dermatosis starts out as dandruff which gets worse and worse. It usually starts on the head and progresses to the entire body. You could run the gene test on it. I think there is a website called PennVet that does the testing.
https://www.vet.upenn.edu/people/facult ... RGRETCASAL
NASDC 3xNGDC-RU FC AFC Gertrudes Blue Brandi JH (Brandi) http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/3genview.php?id=4915
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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by lvrgsp » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:57 pm

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by bruns333 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:04 am

As far as I can tell some folks like to talk about what they have known for a long time, but have they ever done anything to help rid the the GSP breed of this nasty genetic disease? The only dog that folks keep talking about openly that they think was a carrier is Dixeland Rusty. Does anyone know for sure Rusty was a carrier? Unless you are breeder who has been line breeding for decades and keeping track of all the pups you have produced then no one can say they have known much about this disease for decades. lvrgsp your dogs have been tested as clear and that is great. Were both sire and dam of all pups you bred or purchased tested clear also? If not you might have just gotten lucky as I see Rusty in one of your dog's pedigrees many times.

What needs to happen is all the I "told you so" junk needs to stop and we need to start working together to put and end to this disease. Only testing dogs and publishing results is going to fix this problem. I would encourage anyone that has had their dog tested for LD to post your results good and bad. If you are buying a pup and you want to be sure it will not have this disease buy it from a breeder that test both parents for LD unless they are cleared by parentage. If you are a breeder please test your breeding dogs.

IMO opinion this is the worst health problem in our breed(GSP) right now.

Matt

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by lvrgsp » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:35 am

Deleted my prior posts I am going to respectfully not get into this discussion anymore on this forum about this...

Yes Matt my dogs have been tested, and yes I know if dogs in there peds have or have not been tested..

I have the LD clear paperwork from Dr. Casal.

Thanks

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by Elkhunter » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:21 pm

IMO opinion this is the worst health problem in our breed(GSP) right now.
Seriously?

What about lines with cancer that kill hundreds of GSP's each year. Kidney disease etc?

LD effects a very very very small portion of the GSP breed, and with responsible breeding it can be eliminated. But the hysteria is not warranted.

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by bruns333 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:20 pm

I say this for several reasons:

1. Puppies come down with this and most dogs die in their early years.
2. We have a test that can eliminate it from our breed.
3. We don't know how this mutation works and stopping it while still a smaller problem is much easier.

4. Cancer and many others diseases are way more complex in their cause. We don't know why it happens (food, vaccinations, other environmental factors). All dogs die of something and cancer at 12 y/o or kidney disease in later years is sad but hard to say what caused it.

What are you the most concerned about elk hunter? Because I state my opinion does not=hysteria. I am trying to have a discussion about LD so we can all(me included) be better informed.

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by Elkhunter » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:42 pm

Not concerned with anything, I dont feel that LD is the biggest problem facing the breed. And stating that significantly over plays what the actual gene is, yes infected dogs are horrible. But there are a lot more concerns facing the breed than LD.

I am sure there will be more recessive genes down the road that will pop up and the cycle will start all over again.

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by PONGO » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:18 am

LD is a bigger problem than most people think. We would be able to get actual numbers if everyone tested. Vets don't even know about it, so they tell the clients the GSP has allergies etc. Again, it is amazing how many people contact me weekly (sometimes daily) with affected dogs. Again, I am a nobody and people are finding Pongo's FB page. How many people are not finding me and have LD dogs?
Currently helping someone who had to fight with her vet to pull blood to send to Penn Genn yesterday. The vet has never heard of Lupus, but wants to fight her on it. She explained it to him and he finally said he will do some research on it.
Again, we need to educate. I just got off the phone with a breeder (who carries a line that I connected with Pongo and another LD dog, which I have never heard thrown out as a LD line). He was so awesome! He had never heard of LD and thanked me for calling him and educating him. His family has been breeding GSP's for generations and they do health testing, but had never heard of LD. Prime example of educating.

Thanks as always!

Kerstyn and Pongo

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by hafe4825 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:53 am

http://nextgenerationgermanshorthairs.n ... erations=5

http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=5471

There are 2 links to my dog Hank. I don't see the harm in replying to the advice to share test results by those of us who have taken the time to have their dog tested.
I just sent in a blood sample in January of this yr. 2014. Test results came back about 3 weeks later.... RESULTS: Clear, Normal.
The test Is not hard to submit, and I encourage it.

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by hafe4825 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:56 am

Btw....Kerstyn was AWESOME in answering questions for me as I went through the whole process of learning about LD & getting my dog tested! Thanks again Kerstyn!

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by markj » Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:34 am

MarkJ,

You will have a hard time getting folks to admit their dogs or lines are carriers or have produced the disease.
Yeah I am getting that. I have a linebred dixieland rusty female I have had 3 litters from. No one has yet to tell me any of them pups had it, I am concerned if they did and are not saying anything. I would freely give them a pup from my current girl if I breed her again. Any idea on the percentage of effected dogs within teh breed? or not enough information to generate thses types of stats?
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1103
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=5210
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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by PONGO » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:14 pm

Thank you Jon!
No stats yet, but it is unbelievable how many people are finding me! Trying to get Penn Genn to give me numbers is like pulling teeth :( Hoping to get a hold of the vet that created the test (I know she is super busy) and see what she says. I emailed her a couple of weeks ago, but haven't heard back :(
Hopefully Pongo's pedigrees will be on his page soon and I received another LD dogs yesterday. Email me at critterland@tir.com if you want them now, before I can get them posted. I am waiting for a friend to turn them into jpegs (I don't know how to do that).
Wish I could give stats, just so many that aren't being diagnosed properly :(

Kerstyn and Pongo

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by DGFavor » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:56 pm

markj wrote:
MarkJ,

You will have a hard time getting folks to admit their dogs or lines are carriers or have produced the disease.
Yeah I am getting that. I have a linebred dixieland rusty female I have had 3 litters from. No one has yet to tell me any of them pups had it, I am concerned if they did and are not saying anything. I would freely give them a pup from my current girl if I breed her again. Any idea on the percentage of effected dogs within teh breed? or not enough information to generate thses types of stats?
You have had your dog tested right? You made sure the stud(s) were tested also? I am thinking not if you are worried about pups you have produced. Done correctly with the knowledge currently available there should be no worry, no oops, no refunded pups due to LD.

Pongo - i am just not sure at all what to make of your statement that so many are diagnosed improperly...can you elaborate for us?

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by PONGO » Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:19 pm

I have been contacted by a lot of people that after speaking with me and either sending blood to PennGenn or doing skin punches (as I did prior to the research and testing being available) that their vets were treating their LD dogs like they had allergies or another issue. Once they confirmed LD or just went with how I treat Pongo, they saw great results. Most vets will argue with the owners about LD because they have never heard of it.
Pongo has a FB page
https://www.facebook.com/PongoGermanSho ... interLupus

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by PONGO » Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:45 am

I have been getting more people on board to test through PennGen.
I have created an album on his FB page showing results of testings...Free advertising for Breeders.
So far I haven't had anyone give me a Carrier result, but I do know a Breeder who did get a Carrier result and I'm hoping they will give me permission soon to post. Hopefully that will set an example and more will release their Carrier results to me.

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by PONGO » Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:47 am

Also all of Pongo's Pedigree is up on his page. Some albums of other Gsp's also include their Pedigree.

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Re: Lupoid Dermatosis

Post by CWT » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:22 am

How does this disease start? always head, neck, and ears or redness in the belly area? Does it come and go at first and then get worse over time?

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