I mentioned that I made the transition from puppy food to Diamond High Energy, first of all I cannot find this type on their website, maybe it has been discontinued, secondly, Rocco REALLY craps A LOT. I think he went 6 times this am before I left for work? SHEESH. I know you are not supposed to switch foods often in a dogs diet but how much longer should I give the Diamond? He does look pretty good and has lots of energy and stamina at 9 months he outran an older GSP this past weekend after about an hour of intense running the 5yr old shutdown and Rocco kept going. His stools are a little on the loose side too. He's been solely on Diamond for about 2 weeks not including the transition period of about 2 weeks. Im thinking of trying one of the purinas or the PMI I saw on here last week? Is it too early to switch? He is on about 4-4 1/2 cups a day.
Thanks
Diamond Revisited
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GSP4LIFE
You should probably not be feeding a High Protein food to any pup under, say 1 to 1 1/2 years old. It will cause their bones to grow dis-proportionately and could lead to problems like OCD or HD in an otherwise healthy dog. To explain: The bones grow at different rates due to density of the bone. The hip balls grow at one rate while the hip sockets grow at a different rate as an example. When you feed High Protein foods to a young pup that is growing his structure, you severely magnify this effect and cause undue wear and tear.
I believe Joe Spoo, gundogdoc.com, has some good info on this or you can easily contact him from his website to ask further questions.
Just .02 and hopefully some helpful info.
I believe Joe Spoo, gundogdoc.com, has some good info on this or you can easily contact him from his website to ask further questions.
Just .02 and hopefully some helpful info.
Bruce Shaffer
"If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten"
Mark Twain
Bruce, Raine, Storm and GSP's
Almost Heaven GSP's
"In Search of the Perfect GSP";)
"If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten"
Mark Twain
Bruce, Raine, Storm and GSP's
Almost Heaven GSP's
"In Search of the Perfect GSP";)
Old School Springer,
I read those same reports and found nothing saying their ingredients were sub-standard. Diamond has been a good feed from what I hear and I know it is now since I'm using it. I doubt that its much different from practically every other feed on the market since there is a limited number of places to buy the ingredients and they all make the same products. If the truth is known, many of the brands of dogfood are made in the same plants but have slightly different formulas and are packaged in the different bags.
Those reports did show Diamond had gotten very careless in my opinion about testing the corn that they were buying. And I will almost quarantee other plants had too. But after this major wakeup call they all will be rewriting their procedures and making sure they are followed. But knowing human nature this will happen again in a few years when someone will get careless again because they havent found any problems with all of their testing. That is the biggest problem in manufacturing, keeping everybody on their toes and doing the best they possibly can.
Ezzy
I read those same reports and found nothing saying their ingredients were sub-standard. Diamond has been a good feed from what I hear and I know it is now since I'm using it. I doubt that its much different from practically every other feed on the market since there is a limited number of places to buy the ingredients and they all make the same products. If the truth is known, many of the brands of dogfood are made in the same plants but have slightly different formulas and are packaged in the different bags.
Those reports did show Diamond had gotten very careless in my opinion about testing the corn that they were buying. And I will almost quarantee other plants had too. But after this major wakeup call they all will be rewriting their procedures and making sure they are followed. But knowing human nature this will happen again in a few years when someone will get careless again because they havent found any problems with all of their testing. That is the biggest problem in manufacturing, keeping everybody on their toes and doing the best they possibly can.
Ezzy
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207
It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!
Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207
It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!
Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.
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OldSchoolSpringer
Sorry ezzy read again
Sorry but I read actual FDA report and yes many other ingrediants FAILED.
Corn,Wheatflour,Rice Bran,Chicken byproduct meal FAILED testing
http://www.fda.gov/ora/frequent/483s/01 ... 192006.pdf
http://www.fda.gov/ora/frequent/483s/01 ... 192006.pdf
Corn,Wheatflour,Rice Bran,Chicken byproduct meal FAILED testing
http://www.fda.gov/ora/frequent/483s/01 ... 192006.pdf
http://www.fda.gov/ora/frequent/483s/01 ... 192006.pdf
Does anyone know of an online source for FDA reports for every pet food manufacturer in North America? Until I can read them and compare all of the reports, I am going to continue to feed Diamond. My dogs a look and perform as well, or better on Diamond Performance than the Pro Plan Performance that I used to feed.
Soggy Bottom Kennels
Home of:
Soggy Bottom's Dapper Dan
Belly Acres Whinehard
Soggy Bottom's Juicy Butte
Soggy Bottom's Bonafide
Soggy Bottom's Col. Angus
Home of:
Soggy Bottom's Dapper Dan
Belly Acres Whinehard
Soggy Bottom's Juicy Butte
Soggy Bottom's Bonafide
Soggy Bottom's Col. Angus
There are no FDA reports for every manufacturer. What those reports are is the result s of an inspection and they write up anything they can find that shows the company isn't following the Good Manufacturing Practices as outlined by FDA. These inspections can get very strict as I'm sure they were in this case since a major problem had occured. If the errors are serious FDA can and will shut a plant down on the spot. However, as in this case the company was already taking care of the major problem they had encountered and the other items written up were considered less serious and the company would have to answer FDA with the corrections they are making to bring the operation back into compliance.
It apprears that they hadn't calibrated the NIR and were showing some of the tests did not fall into the companies written standard. In the one case they said the ash level was low or high and probably some of the other tests for moisture or fiber or even protien may have been just out of their standards. This is a common error that is found in many inspections. Standards are written as to what you expect and then over time the ingredients change and no longer fit into your written standards and you are out of compliance till you rewrite the standards. As an example the standard for hi-protien soybean meal or dehulled soybean meal was it had to be 50% protien. Then a few years ago when the soybean yield stated going up the protien dropped to 48 or even 47% on most of the meal. If you didn't rewrite your standards at the plant you were out of compliance as far as FDA was concerned. This is an area that needs constant attention or you will get in trouble.
That could have been Diamonds problem with the other ingredients that were listed. But when reading the whole thing they also opened up the possibility that the bad test were because the test it self had not been standardized. I would be inclined to think that is the real reason of the failures on the other ingredients. In either case, FDA by their actions have indicated these were not major problems that effected the feed or they would have issued a recall or shut the plant down till everything was corrected. They did neither.
In my experience it is basically impossible to have an inspection and not have a couple of pages of writeups that you need to correct. YOu have if I remember right 90 days to respond with what you are doing to correct the items written up and if they are adequate FDA will take you off of their list. If they still have questions they may come back in an reinspect to insure the corrections are adequate. In my opinion since there was a recall of some product they will probably reinspect in 90 to 180 days in this case.
Hope this clears up a little of how FDA works and what you have to do to pass their Good Manufacturing Practices inspections.
Ezzy
It apprears that they hadn't calibrated the NIR and were showing some of the tests did not fall into the companies written standard. In the one case they said the ash level was low or high and probably some of the other tests for moisture or fiber or even protien may have been just out of their standards. This is a common error that is found in many inspections. Standards are written as to what you expect and then over time the ingredients change and no longer fit into your written standards and you are out of compliance till you rewrite the standards. As an example the standard for hi-protien soybean meal or dehulled soybean meal was it had to be 50% protien. Then a few years ago when the soybean yield stated going up the protien dropped to 48 or even 47% on most of the meal. If you didn't rewrite your standards at the plant you were out of compliance as far as FDA was concerned. This is an area that needs constant attention or you will get in trouble.
That could have been Diamonds problem with the other ingredients that were listed. But when reading the whole thing they also opened up the possibility that the bad test were because the test it self had not been standardized. I would be inclined to think that is the real reason of the failures on the other ingredients. In either case, FDA by their actions have indicated these were not major problems that effected the feed or they would have issued a recall or shut the plant down till everything was corrected. They did neither.
In my experience it is basically impossible to have an inspection and not have a couple of pages of writeups that you need to correct. YOu have if I remember right 90 days to respond with what you are doing to correct the items written up and if they are adequate FDA will take you off of their list. If they still have questions they may come back in an reinspect to insure the corrections are adequate. In my opinion since there was a recall of some product they will probably reinspect in 90 to 180 days in this case.
Hope this clears up a little of how FDA works and what you have to do to pass their Good Manufacturing Practices inspections.
Ezzy
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207
It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!
Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207
It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!
Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.
Folks this is a cross post that comes from another board. I think is very appropriate here. I myself did just as this poster did, and ordered a whole skid..."pear"
Folks Diamond is one of the top feeds in the country for a lot of reason. When it comes to dog food there's absolutely nothing you can buy that packs as much nutrition in for anywhere near the same dollars. They didn't get to this position by slouching on quality control, or by cutting corners or by trying to cover up problems. I have never met more conscientious people in any business.
Mark Brinkman, COO and Chief nutritionist for the company is a personal friend of mine and someone I have corresponded with, advised, and consulted with and for as to their dog feeds for over ten years.
The truth of the matter is the whole story as reported is rather twisted. No there's not a confirmed 75 dead dogs due to this aphlatoxin problem. No they didn't try to keep it quiet.
What did they do?
First as soon as they were notified of a potential problem, they went back through every sample taken from the batches run that matched those product codes reported. In only two thirty minute runs did they detect ANY aflatoxin above the 20ppb that they test for, a much lower level than causes problems in dogs. Upon discovery of this, they IMMEDIATELY pulled from the market ALL the feed produced that MONTH from the shelves at that plant. We're talking about a multi, million dollar recall, just to be well beyond safe.
Second they have offered to not only pay the vet bills for all those affected, but to cover the REPLACEMENT costs of any dogs lost due to this problem.
They have also spent MILLIONS on new testing equipment, and totally revamped their testing procedures.
While it's not quite all sorted out yet, the problem appears to have come from a shipment of corn that had been tested and certified aflatoxin free by their commodities supplier.
Other than eliminate the use of all grains in all their pet feeds what more can anyone ask of them?
Every major dog food maker has been through this at least once. Mold is a recurrent problem that we will never solve, and it only takes the equivalent of one infected kernel of grain in a whole bag of feed to kill a dog, that's just how deadly aflatoxin is!
This problem affected my relationship and faith in Diamond and Premium Edge pet foods so much, that the day after we heard about it, and I got an email from Mark telling me what was ACTUALLY Going on, I went and bought a pallet load.
I love my dogs, not only that they are absolutely what feeds my family, and pays my bills, both as a breeder, and as the only well known outfitter/guide in the state that runs German Shorthairs exclusively. I give them only the very best that I can possibly afford, and Diamond is it!
Ok I'm done ranting I'm just really sick of the poor job the media has done with this, and how it keeps getting paraphrased and rewritten on these bulletin boards.
Folks Diamond is one of the top feeds in the country for a lot of reason. When it comes to dog food there's absolutely nothing you can buy that packs as much nutrition in for anywhere near the same dollars. They didn't get to this position by slouching on quality control, or by cutting corners or by trying to cover up problems. I have never met more conscientious people in any business.
Mark Brinkman, COO and Chief nutritionist for the company is a personal friend of mine and someone I have corresponded with, advised, and consulted with and for as to their dog feeds for over ten years.
The truth of the matter is the whole story as reported is rather twisted. No there's not a confirmed 75 dead dogs due to this aphlatoxin problem. No they didn't try to keep it quiet.
What did they do?
First as soon as they were notified of a potential problem, they went back through every sample taken from the batches run that matched those product codes reported. In only two thirty minute runs did they detect ANY aflatoxin above the 20ppb that they test for, a much lower level than causes problems in dogs. Upon discovery of this, they IMMEDIATELY pulled from the market ALL the feed produced that MONTH from the shelves at that plant. We're talking about a multi, million dollar recall, just to be well beyond safe.
Second they have offered to not only pay the vet bills for all those affected, but to cover the REPLACEMENT costs of any dogs lost due to this problem.
They have also spent MILLIONS on new testing equipment, and totally revamped their testing procedures.
While it's not quite all sorted out yet, the problem appears to have come from a shipment of corn that had been tested and certified aflatoxin free by their commodities supplier.
Other than eliminate the use of all grains in all their pet feeds what more can anyone ask of them?
Every major dog food maker has been through this at least once. Mold is a recurrent problem that we will never solve, and it only takes the equivalent of one infected kernel of grain in a whole bag of feed to kill a dog, that's just how deadly aflatoxin is!
This problem affected my relationship and faith in Diamond and Premium Edge pet foods so much, that the day after we heard about it, and I got an email from Mark telling me what was ACTUALLY Going on, I went and bought a pallet load.
I love my dogs, not only that they are absolutely what feeds my family, and pays my bills, both as a breeder, and as the only well known outfitter/guide in the state that runs German Shorthairs exclusively. I give them only the very best that I can possibly afford, and Diamond is it!
Ok I'm done ranting I'm just really sick of the poor job the media has done with this, and how it keeps getting paraphrased and rewritten on these bulletin boards.