Pigeon-toed Vizsla Puppy

[jhalleck]

My 9-week-old Vizsla puppy is pigeon-toed in that her front left leg bends in, not out. I got her at 8 weeks, and the inward bend has only gotten more pronounced. To illustrate:

Front:
/ I
Rear:
I I

The turning in seems more pronounced from the ankle to the foot. I have a good relationship with the breeder, but he is out of town for a few days, and this is a concern for me. Is it something I should expect her to grow out of, or will this probably be with her for life? If so, should I expect it to case hip problems or other problems with running or other functions? My vet did not notice this problem during a visit today or last week, and I only noticed it myself this evening.

I am unsure as to how to post a photo, but will attempt to figure it out and post one soon.

Thank you for any help you may be able to give,
Jay

[wems2371]

Pups can go through a lot of stages and changes as they are growing. While my 2nd shorthair pup grew fairly evenly, my first pup went through gangly stages. She had nice front legs at 7 weeks and then over a couple months toed out some, and as she matured squared back up again. Dogs will also stop in the darndest poses sometimes too, making things look worse than they are. I'm guessing since you've only had her for a week, and she's seen the vet 2x, that she doesn't have any pad damage or lameness from taking a fall, that might be causing her to put uneven pressure on just the one front foot?

If you have a Photobucket.com account, it's fairly easy to upload a photo there, and then right-click-copy-&-paste the IMG tag into your post here--to show a photo.

[jhalleck]

You are correct in that she shows no sign of injury leading to her putting more pressure on one leg over the other. From observing her gait, she appears to place equal pressure on both front legs. I have seen several pups with front legs turning out and being corrected as they grow, including my last Vizsla, but I've not seen the front legs turning in this way.

I am posting two pictures that are indicative of the inward turn. While it may appear that these could be awkward poses, I can assure you that this is how it looks regularly, and not just in the photos.

[phermes1]

Puppies can morph from the most perfect-looking 8 week old pup to a gangly, gross-looking 5 month old pup, and then back again, finally maturing into a perfectly healthy, handsome, conformationally good adult. They're called the puppy-uglies, and I don't know if I'd worry too much about it.

While we're on the subject, though, sometimes pasterns can get a little weak if a pup isn't getting enough calcium. I think the only thing we ever did special for our pups diet-wise is feed them a well-balanced food and incorporate a calcium supplement.

[wems2371]

She sure is a cute little devil.

You should know that I am a worry wart x10, but I would make another vet visit, to ease my mind. I am wondering how the vet didn't notice this yesterday, but if you carried her into the exam room and sat her on the table, maybe there wasn't full opportunity...or maybe the vet didn't think it was abnormal. I haven't seen a lot of pups like some here, but vitamin deficiency, like rickets was what I thought of when I saw the pics.

[dog dr]

would need x-rray to confirm, but sure looks like an angular limb deformity to me. if its what i think it is, its a surgical fix. damage to the growth plate causes either the ulna or radius to stop growing, but the other one keeps growing, and that makes the leg turn in or out. DONT FREAK OUT, as i may looking at the pic wrong, and i could be completely off base with the diagnosis, but i would get your vet to look at it real close. might just be some joint laxity. a pic on the net isnt near as good as seeing them in real life.

also, pm kninebirddog, as she had a pup recently with a very similar looking leg, and was able to get it to straighten out without surgery.

[kninebirddog]

Yes Between a to high protein fat food I had to feed for a bit on the road and a series of some other stresses had a pup with the same looking thing...Did a pretty strict dietary change on that pup and some vet wrap for about 10 days and it cleared up about as fast as it showed up and so far well over a month later there is no physical or other signs that anything was wrong\ and the pup back on our normal feed at normal ratios.

HArd way to learn about some dog foods

What I did till I could get back to the Loyal performance that my pups were being fed I a cut back to a 1/4 cup and filled in with some green beans and peas oranges and yogurt with acidophilis not just regular yogurt if I couldn't get oranges I used Ester vitamin C and acidophilis pills crushed up but still the green beans and peas then I vet wrapped the leg carefully with a thick wrapping and sprayed the outside of the vet wrap with some spray called pain ease one of those muscular sprays that you can get at walmart..only stuff I found which stopped the pup from trying to eat the vet wrap
with in literally 2 days I noticed improvement change wrap every 2 days make sure that it isn't to tight and also that it doesn't get wet ..when you take off the old wrap look the leg over for any raw spots just incase and then rewrap.

with the age and just starting this should be good with 10 days or less IF it is food and stress related ...Here is where I learned about treating this nutritionally and you should see how bad some of the pups are in the picture they post which were cleared up nutritionally not medically they do also promote a special food but I did my own cutting back and getting back on my regular food and had great results

http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/k ... g_over.htm

[AzDoggin]

Yes Between a to high protein fat food I had to feed for a bit on the road and a series of some other stresses had a pup with the same looking thing...Did a pretty strict dietary change on that pup and some vet wrap for about 10 days and it cleared up about as fast as it showed up and so far well over a month later there is no physical or other signs that anything was wrong\ and the pup back on our normal feed at normal ratios.

HArd way to learn about some dog foods

What I did till I could get back to the Loyal performance that my pups were being fed I a cut back to a 1/4 cup and filled in with some green beans and peas oranges and yogurt with acidophilis not just regular yogurt if I couldn't get oranges I used Ester vitamin C and acidophilis pills crushed up but still the green beans and peas then I vet wrapped the leg carefully with a thick wrapping and sprayed the outside of the vet wrap with some spray called pain ease one of those muscular sprays that you can get at walmart..only stuff I found which stopped the pup from trying to eat the vet wrap
with in literally 2 days I noticed improvement change wrap every 2 days make sure that it isn't to tight and also that it doesn't get wet ..when you take off the old wrap look the leg over for any raw spots just incase and then rewrap.

with the age and just starting this should be good with 10 days or less IF it is food and stress related ...Here is where I learned about treating this nutritionally and you should see how bad some of the pups are in the picture they post which were cleared up nutritionally not medically they do also promote a special food but I did my own cutting back and getting back on my regular food and had great results

http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/k ... g_over.htm

Wow, Knine, so did this start with a "puppy food" causing too rapid growth?

That website shows some impressive results. I am sure there are some extreme cases in which it might not work, but it's pretty hard to argue with the results shown.

[Georgia Boy]

Just think, most people here would tell you puppy food or large breed puppy food is a marketing ploy. :roll:

[johnson48]

A kid in our NAVHDA chapter brought his pup last Fall to introduce birds. We noticed that it foot was splayed- much to what Im seeing in your picture. He called the breeder, they paid for a vet visit, not a good diagnosis. Pup will eventually have to be amputated. Kid was offered money back and new pup. He opted to keep his pup and train him through.
Better notify the breeder and vet. Good luck. Hope its something easy and fixable.

[ezzy333]

From the looks of the leg I agree with Doc. That wasn't caused by nutrition i doubt, but if it is then it didn't happen over night and can't be fixed overnight either. Deformaties caused by nutrition take a long time to occur and a long time to fix if you even can. If it is just growing problems then it may very well get better in the next few weeks but can also get worse. I would get an opinion from your vet since it easily can be something you need to do now to keep it from being a permanent problem.

Ezzy

[phermes1]

A kid in our NAVHDA chapter brought his pup last Fall to introduce birds. We noticed that it foot was splayed- much to what Im seeing in your picture. He called the breeder, they paid for a vet visit, not a good diagnosis. Pup will eventually have to be amputated. Kid was offered money back and new pup. He opted to keep his pup and train him through.
Better notify the breeder and vet. Good luck. Hope its something easy and fixable.

I would definitely be getting a second opinion before amputating anything. I sure hope that kid did.

[ezzy333]

A kid in our NAVHDA chapter brought his pup last Fall to introduce birds. We noticed that it foot was splayed- much to what Im seeing in your picture. He called the breeder, they paid for a vet visit, not a good diagnosis. Pup will eventually have to be amputated. Kid was offered money back and new pup. He opted to keep his pup and train him through.
Better notify the breeder and vet. Good luck. Hope its something easy and fixable.

I would definitely be getting a second opinion before amputating anything. I sure hope that kid did.

I can't quite believe that. Need a whole lot more info besides a splayed foot.

Ezzy

[kninebirddog]

Try what we spoke of and as I stated if you do not see any improvements with in about 2 through 4 days at most then yes by all means do not discount a vet but I am only going by what I personally experienced and showed dog dr and had discussion with him on a constant basis and Yes nutrition did make a vast difference and improvement otherwise dog dr wouldn't have made the comment he did on what we went over.
I can't say if this is the exact same thing but from discussion on the phone and some emailing I would have to say what I did is differently worth a try before seeking surgery as this is a matter of days seeing improvement literally stopping and reversing the bowing of the leg and not weeks.
so take it for what it is worth not everything is requiring surgery but then not everything can be fixed with change in diet either but if you can see result is days then I personaly feel it is worth a try as what is the worst thing you do surgery?
Keep us posted please and I pray for the best

[kninebirddog]

Yes Between a to high protein fat food I had to feed for a bit on the road and a series of some other stresses had a pup with the same looking thing...Did a pretty strict dietary change on that pup and some vet wrap for about 10 days and it cleared up about as fast as it showed up and so far well over a month later there is no physical or other signs that anything was wrong\ and the pup back on our normal feed at normal ratios.

HArd way to learn about some dog foods

What I did till I could get back to the Loyal performance that my pups were being fed I a cut back to a 1/4 cup and filled in with some green beans and peas oranges and yogurt with acidophilis not just regular yogurt if I couldn't get oranges I used Ester vitamin C and acidophilis pills crushed up but still the green beans and peas then I vet wrapped the leg carefully with a thick wrapping and sprayed the outside of the vet wrap with some spray called pain ease one of those muscular sprays that you can get at walmart..only stuff I found which stopped the pup from trying to eat the vet wrap
with in literally 2 days I noticed improvement change wrap every 2 days make sure that it isn't to tight and also that it doesn't get wet ..when you take off the old wrap look the leg over for any raw spots just incase and then rewrap.

with the age and just starting this should be good with 10 days or less IF it is food and stress related ...Here is where I learned about treating this nutritionally and you should see how bad some of the pups are in the picture they post which were cleared up nutritionally not medically they do also promote a special food but I did my own cutting back and getting back on my regular food and had great results

http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/k ... g_over.htm

Wow, Knine, so did this start with a "puppy food" causing too rapid growth?

That website shows some impressive results. I am sure there are some extreme cases in which it might not work, but it's pretty hard to argue with the results shown.

what happened with us as we were on the road I had to do some feed switching i had some changes when I tried some pro pac performance stuff and then when we got back on the road we were brought some loyall professional which took the pups from one extreme to another and then the travel with vaccination when we got to texas all with in a 4 day time period is when this one pup began to show some bowing if the leg ...I spoke with dog dr and then found this web site and as state did my own cutting back and adding the vitamins and stuff and the vet wrap and literally with in a couple day the bending stopped and when I started the pups leg was bending more so then this pup here in this picture I sent dog dr pictures as I was going along as I was thinking I would have to put the pup down I tried this because what was the worst thing that was gonna happen put the pup down well he is happy hard running straight legged and full of the "bleep" like nothing was ever wrong.

But I will stress if anyone's pup has this happen and you elect to try this method and if you don't see results for the better literally with in 2 -4 days at the most seek a vet and make a decision from there as to what is best for you and your pup.

[AzDoggin]

But I will stress if anyone's pup has this happen and you elect to try this method and if you don't see results for the better literally with in 2 -4 days at the most seek a vet and make a decision from there as to what is best for you and your pup.

Seems to me you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by at least trying the "nonsurgical" route first. If it doesn't work out, you are left with the same options you had anyway.

Man, I wish we had a vet like Dog dr. around here, that's all I can say.

[kninebirddog]

But I will stress if anyone's pup has this happen and you elect to try this method and if you don't see results for the better literally with in 2 -4 days at the most seek a vet and make a decision from there as to what is best for you and your pup.

Seems to me you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by at least trying the "nonsurgical" route first. If it doesn't work out, you are left with the same options you had anyway.

Man, I wish we had a vet like Dog dr. around here, that's all I can say.

Dog dr has been.a super resource and internet friend. I look forward to the day when o can finally meet him.on.person. we are blessed to have him.on.boards to.seek.help.and get some.advice from.

[dog dr]

Update???

[jhalleck]

Sorry for the delay in an update. The turning in absolutely stopped getting worse after about 2 days of wrapping with vetrap and a change in diet. Luckily for me, Lucy took to her new diet with gusto, and there was no trouble with digestion (no diarrhea).

When I removed the vetrap last night to change it, it appeared that the leg has gotten much better. It still isn't perfect, but it is noticeably less turned in.

For what it's worth, when I went to my vet, she told me that an x-ray would not be helpful because the growth plates are all so active. I do not know how much validity that statement holds, as I've never had to deal with an issue like this for any of the 5 dogs I've owned. She also told me that she didn't notice anything wrong when she checked Lucy's forelegs, and suggested it was just uneven growth as Lucy is growing so fast. This visit occurred prior to any switch in diet, and she still displayed a noticeable turn-in. I'm posting some photos from Saturday below.





I'll continue to update as she goes through the next week and a half with the wrap and new diet. Thank you all again for your help!

[dog dr]

Fantastic!! looks totally normal now! glad it wasnt something more serious.

what the x-ray would do is allow you to evaluate the growth plates (make sure they are all still open) and also evaluate the degree of twist (if any) to the radius or ulna.

[kninebirddog]

Ditto Thank you for the update..Glad it was a nutritional route out of the issue so far and not a surgical one

Pup is looking great Hope she brings you many years of happy hunting

[mcbosco]

WOW, excellent news!!!

[jlp8cornell]

The turning in absolutely stopped getting worse after about 2 days of wrapping with vetrap and a change in diet.

Wonderful! I am very interested in what exactly you did in terms of switching diets. Please share...

[mountaindogs]

for future - might check out details on "carpal laxity"

My sheltie had trouble as a puppy though it was both legs, looked alot like that.

Then I had a GSP with trouble that did not so much clear up. I could write a book on all the research into vet books and papers I did on nutrition, but won't get started. Glad it's better.