What Dog Food and Why?

Grousehunter74
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What Dog Food and Why?

Post by Grousehunter74 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:23 am

I've read a lot of posts on dog food.

What dog food do you use and why? Is it price or nutrition, rice, chicken, etc.

What makes you buy the dog food you use?

I noticed 4health at Tractor Supply - never used it. Iams, pedigree, purina dog chow, purina pro plan.

So many to choose from.

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by MTO4Life » Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:38 am

I was using Purina Pro Plan Performance. My dogs did exceptionally well other than I finally figured out that my girl was getting ear infections from it. One forum member recommended Acana. I am currently using Acana Grasslands and they are doing well on it. It IS expensive, but I'll use it a few more months and decide where to go from there. I'll wait until my bitch finishs with her litter and see.

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by GUNDOGS » Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:47 am

Hello Grousehunter74...we use BLUE BUFFALO lamb and rice..reason is allergies mainly..it has NO WHEAT, SOY OR CORN in it which are the most common reasons for allergies in dogfood.. NO CHICKEN BY PRODUCTS OR MEAL..theres lots of fruit in it as well..its about $65 for a 30 pound bag.. he gets 4 to 5 cups a day spread out by 2 cups in the morning around 5am, 1 cup around 11am, and 2 cups around 6pm..when hes not so active we cut out the lunch feeding but he also does well on the biscuits blue has..it took many changes in food to find one he does well on and so far so good..also our new pup comes in about a week and shes going on it too....ruth
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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by mcbosco » Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:13 am

What to feed is more dependent on where you live and what the retail situation is in your area. The differences are not enough to warrant driving all over the place to buy kibble. I would just look for a solid 30/20 food because that is probably the best value all things considered.

There are good choices from both big and small companies but at the higher end, Annamaet Ultra and Royal Canin 4800 are great foods and at the lower-middle price point, you would be hard pressed to beat Pro Pac High Performance. That food is about $28 a bag, there is a $2 coupon in every bag and the 10th bag is free. Pro Pac is made by Midwestern Pet Foods and is the middle brand between SportMix and the pricey Earthborn Holistic. Pro Pac is made in an EU Certified plant from simple high quality ingredients.

In the middle is something like Eagle Power Pack, which has been around a very long time and is a good value and easy to find.

Purina & Euk products ironically are very expensive where I live in NJ so I don't think they are good values. JMO.

With gas at $3.25 gallon, stay close to home.

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:52 am

This is a subject that gets discussed on here about every month as we have new people join. I think about everyone is tired of these. For a matter of fact there is one going right now. If you are really interested in knowing read the other post and look in the archives. There are so many rumors and opinions that are not based on fact plus there is very little difference in the feeds, McBosco has given everyone good advice.

There is seldom an allergy to food, and 90% that are suspected have been found to be an allergy to something in the environment and for the rare case where it is the feel it is almost always an allergy to the protein so a change in meat source my help. But there is probably not more than one in a thousands that will have an allergy to grain or grain products. Another opinion not based on fact is the reluctance to feed a by-product. By-products are normally much higher in good nutritional properties than a good plain meal. And a meal is always better than the actual meat as it has the water removed do it is normally 3 to 4 times as high in nutrition as the meat.

Normally we look for a food hat has a meat source of protein as the first ingredient and I want any food I would use for a performance animal to have whole ground corn as the second or third as it is the absolute best carb source that a dog relies on along with the fat for energy. That doesn't say that a feed is not good if it starts with corn but if it does it probably needs two meat sources as second and third ingredients on the list as a general rule.

The longer you are involved I think you will find you can tell very little from the ingredient list or the feeding directions. So find a feed that has the protein/fat levels you want, make sure it is readily available, is priced so you can afford it, and that your dog is doing well on and you have found the best feed for you to use. All of this being said I have been using the Diamond products for the past several years and like them real well. They are not better than a lot of other feeds but I have found them to be the best food for the money that I have found. But my dogs have done well on any food I have fed and they eat almost the same amount as long as they have the same protein/fat levels and the results have been similar.

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by GUNDOGS » Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:55 am

Ezzy, you are not understanding the original post once again!!!!!!..you are always ready to debate people and THEIR reasons for using certain foods..you stated SELDOM are dogs allergic to dog food..is that why so many foods are coming out with grain free products because they are NOT NEEDED?..thats ridiculous..it does happen..it did in my case..so those dog foods are there for people with dogs like mine that have those allergies..this post was not to start a food debate it was asked specifically to EACH individual..so i gave MY CHOICE of food based on MY EXPERIENCE..the poster did not say only post your dog food if you are EZZY!!..i dont appreciate the implication of my post being not based on fact..especially the use of corn..btw i had a full blood profile done on my dog and CBC that showed our dogs allergies and one being to chicken, chicken by product, chicken meal , chicken beaks, chicken feet who cares what part of the chicken hes allergic to chicken!!..also allergic to corn and wheat as well...he had chronic ear infections BECAUSE OF THE CORN..took him off it changed his food and BAM ears cleared up, hot spots went away and hair grew back where he had lost it!!! that is MY experience and MY post so dont debate MY post just post your own food and info requested.. i didnt TELL him in ANY way what food HE should use nor did i give advice just answered his post you should try that!!!!...also by the way the food you use DIAMOND also offers DIAMOND NATURAL ezzy, it is grain free, wheat free and soy free!! so your own dog food offers it for dogs with allergies..now why would they offer it since its NOT an issue with dogs?....ruth
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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by Cajun Casey » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:37 am

Grain free is a tactic to get homemade and raw feeders back in the commercial fold.

I use Diamond Premium for the cost and Pro Plan Professional for the dogs that need a little better energy delivery. All but a couple prefer the Diamond.
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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by MikeB » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:44 am

The only thing that gets old about new people asking questions about dog food is YOU and MCBOSCO and some others fighting about your opinions. I would think as the "Moderator" your job is to sit back and monitor posts and watch out for those breaking the rules.

The question simply was... What Dog Food and Why? Very simple question and very simple answer.

Now can we all just get a long and not make this thread longer than necessary.

As for the answer to the question.... My choice would be CANIDAE because it works for me.

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:11 pm

Ruth, I think this was your post
it has NO WHEAT, SOY OR CORN in it which are the most common reasons for allergies in dogfood.. NO CHICKEN BY PRODUCTS OR MEAL..theres lots of fruit in it as well..its about $65 for a 30 pound bag.. he gets 4 to 5 cups a day spread out by 2 cups in the morning around 5am, 1 cup around 11am, and 2 cups around 6pm..when hes not so active we cut out the lunch feeding but he also does well on the biscuits blue has..it took many changes in food to find one he does well on and so far so good.
Did you see where the question said anything about what was in it or what that does. Seems to me your answer could have been "I feed Blue Buffalo Lamb and Rice-reason is allergies." And if you had posted that, oh wait you did but then went on with all of the other stuff I quoted. I didn't critize you for doing it but did try to straighten out some of your information so other newcomers would not take some of what you are posting as fact. It isn't. It is opinion and not based on fact. I will admit it is possible to have the allergies and you found that your feed worked for you and have no problem with that but when you are doing the exact same thing you get upset with me about I think that eliminates the validity of your complaint.

Mike B- sorry McBosco and I both beat you to this one but you can still chime in. Oh and my contract doesn't say if you moderate you cant take part or have an opinion or even state a couple of facts that happen to be in the field I worked in for many years and have seen and even taken part in the research of many of these opinions that always come up. Did you notice I didn't say a thing about Ruth feeding their dog three times a day when it's active even though that has been frowned on for years as a dog is designed to eat once every day or two as needed and to empty out before they start hunting for something to eat. We touch on that when we talk about not feeding a dog the morning you are going to hunt or run your dog and also not till several hours after they have been running. But it wasn't what this thread was about and if I had I would have be criticized for that also even though it might save their dogs life. I just try to correct some thinking so people can make better decisions as I am sure you do.

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by GUNDOGS » Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:03 pm

Ezzy, nothing wrong with my answer..yes i do see where he asked what is in it!..he asked it by saying is it because of the nutrition(translation whats in it) hmm lets see lamb and rice and fruit.. is it the PRICE? mines $65 a bag for 30 pounds..which i find reasonable for my area.. WHAT kind of dog food do you use and WHY do you use it? i use blue buffalo lamb and rice because of allergies to soy, wheat and corn... chicken and rice he asked?..no chicken in my dogs food because my dogs allergic...look at my post i answered those questions!!...i went on to say how much i feed him because WHY i also use it is he digests it easily and maintains his weight!!.debate done!.....ruth
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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:08 pm

Ruth ,

Nothing wrong with your answer, that's why I didn't complain about it. And nothing wrong with my answer either. The only difference is you complained about mine. End of discussion.

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by mcbosco » Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:10 pm

$65 for 30lbs? Are the kibbles gold-plated?

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by Cajun Casey » Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:18 pm

mcbosco wrote:$65 for 30lbs? Are the kibbles gold-plated?
That's a bit pricey for a mass market product like Blue Buffalo, but middle of the road for specialty foods. I believe Orijen's Regional Red is around $5.00 a pound.
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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by GUNDOGS » Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:21 pm

mcbosco wrote:$65 for 30lbs? Are the kibbles gold-plated?
Have you lived in Canada mcbosco :lol: :lol: :lol: ..tax is 13% believe me its reasonable..ruth
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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by GUNDOGS » Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:27 pm

ezzy333 wrote:Ruth ,

Nothing wrong with your answer, that's why I didn't complain about it. And nothing wrong with my answer either. The only difference is you complained about mine. End of discussion.

Ezzy
Ezzy you cant end the discussion..I ALREADY DID :wink: and why are you out of your padded room :lol: :lol: ...ruth
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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by mcbosco » Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:29 pm

Wow....BB is about $40 at Petco in NJ. That is a bummer. How long does 30lbs last for you?

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by GUNDOGS » Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:42 pm

mcbosco wrote:Wow....BB is about $40 at Petco in NJ. That is a bummer. How long does 30lbs last for you?
We go through a 30 pd bag every 3 weeks for 1 dog ...gas is $1.15 a litre here.. which is $4.60 a gallon so i cant afford to drive to NJ to save the $25 bucks per bag :lol: ...ruth
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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by big steve46 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:57 pm

Ezzy is correct in that most allergies are protein in nature. However, food sensitivities are related to chemicals in or on feed sources more specifically related to how grains are grown and processed. It's likely that what some call allergies are possibly sensitivities. Because most Vets don't test for it or know much about it doesn't detract from it's possible importance in problem cases. Google up "clinical ecology" which is mostly about humans, but the principles should be the same for dogs perhaps.

That said, I agree that most dogs do well on most good feeds, and some of the literature you read about rating dog feeds has false premises so they can sell expensive feed.
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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by kbshorthairs » Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:10 pm

GUNDOGS wrote:Ezzy, you are not understanding the original post once again!!!!!!..you are always ready to debate people and THEIR reasons for using certain foods..you stated SELDOM are dogs allergic to dog food..is that why so many foods are coming out with grain free products because they are NOT NEEDED?..thats ridiculous..it does happen..it did in my case..so those dog foods are there for people with dogs like mine that have those allergies..this post was not to start a food debate it was asked specifically to EACH individual..so i gave MY CHOICE of food based on MY EXPERIENCE..the poster did not say only post your dog food if you are EZZY!!..i dont appreciate the implication of my post being not based on fact..especially the use of corn..btw i had a full blood profile done on my dog and CBC that showed our dogs allergies and one being to chicken, chicken by product, chicken meal , chicken beaks, chicken feet who cares what part of the chicken hes allergic to chicken!!..also allergic to corn and wheat as well...he had chronic ear infections BECAUSE OF THE CORN..took him off it changed his food and BAM ears cleared up, hot spots went away and hair grew back where he had lost it!!! that is MY experience and MY post so dont debate MY post just post your own food and info requested.. i didnt TELL him in ANY way what food HE should use nor did i give advice just answered his post you should try that!!!!...also by the way the food you use DIAMOND also offers DIAMOND NATURAL ezzy, it is grain free, wheat free and soy free!! so your own dog food offers it for dogs with allergies..now why would they offer it since its NOT an issue with dogs?....ruth
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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by bossman » Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:49 pm

Currently feed Eagle Pack Power Formula (30/20) with good success. Three of the top seven ingrediants are animal based protein. I actually think that corn, when used properly is a good source of carbohydrates. Currently feeding three dogs, have fed as many as seven at a time. Never had an issue with allergies. Was feeding National and loved it, but the shipping costs were as much as the cost of the feed. A local retailer can get the Eagle Pack. I prefer "meal" as the souce of animal protein. I consider my dog's to be active so look for a feed that can support their activity level while keeping weight on while mimimizing "clean up". If one has dog's with verified allergy problems, then I would feed accordingly. It is my opinion...that said again...my opinion..that those cases are in the minority. I agree with mcbosco. Feed something that is convenient. Appreciate his move to "the middle" when discussing "kibble" for dog's and he brings some good thoughts to the table . His comments ranging from Pro Pac to Annamaet are apprciated. With all that being said, while this issue has been discussed several times, I think it's great for a new person to be able to ask questions regarding feed. After all, isn't that what this forum is for...to help?.. If you think a subject has been over done, don't participate.jmo...Many good feeds out there. Feed what's best for your dog.

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by GUNDOGS » Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:57 pm

kbshorthairs wrote:
GUNDOGS wrote:Ezzy, you are not understanding the original post once again!!!!!!..you are always ready to debate people and THEIR reasons for using certain foods..you stated SELDOM are dogs allergic to dog food..is that why so many foods are coming out with grain free products because they are NOT NEEDED?..thats ridiculous..it does happen..it did in my case..so those dog foods are there for people with dogs like mine that have those allergies..this post was not to start a food debate it was asked specifically to EACH individual..so i gave MY CHOICE of food based on MY EXPERIENCE..the poster did not say only post your dog food if you are EZZY!!..i dont appreciate the implication of my post being not based on fact..especially the use of corn..btw i had a full blood profile done on my dog and CBC that showed our dogs allergies and one being to chicken, chicken by product, chicken meal , chicken beaks, chicken feet who cares what part of the chicken hes allergic to chicken!!..also allergic to corn and wheat as well...he had chronic ear infections BECAUSE OF THE CORN..took him off it changed his food and BAM ears cleared up, hot spots went away and hair grew back where he had lost it!!! that is MY experience and MY post so dont debate MY post just post your own food and info requested.. i didnt TELL him in ANY way what food HE should use nor did i give advice just answered his post you should try that!!!!...also by the way the food you use DIAMOND also offers DIAMOND NATURAL ezzy, it is grain free, wheat free and soy free!! so your own dog food offers it for dogs with allergies..now why would they offer it since its NOT an issue with dogs?....ruth
I hope you never consider breeding such an individual.
Absolutely not..he was neutered at 7 months!!.....ruth
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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by kninebirddog » Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:03 pm

we are feeding Loyall Performance to the trial young and whelping females and Loyall Maintenance to the older not run as much dogs

Weights are good and coats are good
Best thing is the females during gestation are getting plenty from the food as they maintain very well and the pups are an average of about an ounce plus more at whelping then previous feeds my average weight with the loyal has been 11-12 ounces versus about 9-10 on the other feeds over the years and also the females maintain through out the whelping and nursing stages with out having to supplement
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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by johnson48 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:55 pm

I dont want to steal this thread.... But its obviously been duplicated many, many times.
I just have to know why the dog community has such a strong opinion, curiosity, debate over the dog food brands? You would think you would see this in something in the form of baby foods, but even there its not even strongly debated like this topic. What drives this so heavily? My first inclination is the marketing strategies are really working, but not sure.

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:16 pm

I think it being a very competitive market place there has been so much bad info put out for several years that people begin to accept much of it for the truth. As you will note 99% of the debate is with the one dog family and it is their house pet or baby. Seldom will you ever find a dog in a kennel where they keep several dogs that have allergies, sensitive stomachs, too thin, too fat, or all of the other things you read on a board like this. But much of the marketing hype that is designed to sell the companies food has been designed for a niche in the market so they design a food that is different than most and then try to sell it because of that difference. As an example the no grain kick that a few people have bought in to, and those feeds that have sold the no grain thing use rice which is a grain but no one seems to notice that. The food allergy thing has become the big thing recently. Never had heard of a dog having a food allergy, them all of a sudden dogs all over were suffering from it and it was always the grain that was at fault. So there have been thousands of tests run, and the few allergies that were proven were about 90% allergies to something in the dogs environment but the small food companies that are hurting jumped on it and tried to sell it was the corn in most good feeds. Now the research has shown that there are so few food allergies it is almost non existent and most of the ones that were real were almost always an allergy to the protein in the feed and not the grain. Those are just examples of a couple of the biggest examples of false information that is going around now. Also the false info about by-products not being a good ingredient when in actuality they are almost always better than a straight product.

Too many times the single pet dog family try to give the dog human qualities and dogs just aren't made that way. And the sad thing is the dogs are the ones suffering from all of this.

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by Cajun Casey » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:01 am

Could you please post a lable from a food that claims to be grain free and contains rice?
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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by Winchey » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:13 am

Why are you always going on about how great by-products and corn are. Yes organ meat is a great feed, but when the label says chicken by-products you don't know if you are getting organ meet or a number of other things with very little nurtritional value. I am on the fence when it comes to corn. It is in everything, including our food. I have trouble when a food is expensive when one of the main ingredients is dirt cheap corn. My girlfriend is big on the super premium foods and and raw and all this and that. I like to feed something that is fit for consumption and they do well on and is reasonably priced. We are fortunate enough to get a couple of super premium dog food brands for free, thats what I feed, free. But the gf actually bought a $70 bag of wellness core because she thinks its a little better. Heck I live off of hot dogs and macorroni and cheese.

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by GUNDOGS » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:51 am

Ezzy, here you go again acting as though pet owners with dogs with allergies are just basically "paranoid"..allergies DO exist just like diabetics exist therefore SUGARFREE alternatives exist..yes granted SOME may be allergic to proteins but it is not the only allergy ezzy...also i have FACTS that were given to be by my VET that states many common allergies in dogs..which include vaccines and heartworm preventatives causing reactions and even deadly reactions due to these..they are not the norm but DO in fact exist..try telling owners of these dogs they dont!!..they do treat them often and the treatments they provide help these dogs live more comfortable lives..you cant tell someone on here that its basically just a hype brought on by food companies..my dog would be dead by now if not for the food he is on..facts speak loudly and it is a fact that when a dog is in such bad shape you contimplate on ending his life to end his suffering and he has such bad ear infections and hairloss, red bloody paws ect that you debated putting him down but then you change his dog food based on your VETs diagnosis and BAM your dog begins to heal, his hair grows back, his feet arent bloody anymore and he can breathe again without gasping!!..why are there so many dogs NOW with allergies that werent showing up before you ask..well for one people just got rid of a dog with health problems such as chronic ear infections(which is one of the more common signs) or they couldnt afford prednisone injections and medications and vet visits so put the dog down and vets didnt see it for the most part..alot of the dogs end up in shelters(i see it since i volunteer there)almost all dogs in shelters have some sort of health issue and most people cant afford to treat it for the dogs entire life..i spent over 800 dollars with different vets trying to find out what was going on by doing allergy tests, blood work, injections, and food changes..people just really didnt know what was wrong with their pets..and vets didnt see it too often and were brought up to date by seminars and research as with any other medical situations..its not common to have a kennel full of dogs with allergies youre right but there definitely are folks with them as part of their family and you shouldnt be dismissing that..i went to school for this as one of my subjects and noticed the signs right away and got him to the vet who began switching foods for my dog meat being one of the things i switched from chicken to duck..corn being the other thing i made sure was not in the food and he began getting better in just a week..it was incredible..the only reason i switched from that duck and potato is because it was so high in fat/calories he got the runs from it so we chose the lamb as the meat in his new food...i have helped others as well with signs of ear infections, and other issues that seemed to be allergies or sensitivities and they switched food and it worked..you believe what youd like but those results speak for themselves and nobody will convince me otherrwise..if you ask anyone else on here that had allergy issues they would say switching food helped also i bet!!..ruth
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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by GUNDOGS » Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:07 am

Winchey wrote:Why are you always going on about how great by-products and corn are. Yes organ meat is a great feed, but when the label says chicken by-products you don't know if you are getting organ meet or a number of other things with very little nurtritional value. I am on the fence when it comes to corn. It is in everything, including our food. I have trouble when a food is expensive when one of the main ingredients is dirt cheap corn. My girlfriend is big on the super premium foods and and raw and all this and that. I like to feed something that is fit for consumption and they do well on and is reasonably priced. We are fortunate enough to get a couple of super premium dog food brands for free, thats what I feed, free. But the gf actually bought a $70 bag of wellness core because she thinks its a little better. Heck I live off of hot dogs and macorroni and cheese.
Sorry to comment here winchey when i know you are addressing someone else but i have to say you are exactly right!!..dog foods are different level of quality and its A FACT..some foods just put grains and and by products just to keep your dog alive but provide no nutritional value and you see all that goes in their mouth come out in the back yard because they didnt digest it because its crap and their body just eliminates it..it is just simply ridiculous to say blue buffalo or orijen are the same as ol'roy or mainstay!!..you take a dog with 15 piles a day in the backyard and switch him to a high quality food and see it go down to 2 because he is actually digesting food and his body is using it!!..the label does count ...ruth
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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by mcbosco » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:29 am

Ruth, is he allergic to pork?

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by nanney1 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:34 am

[quote="Grousehunter74"]I've read a lot of posts on dog food.
What dog food do you use and why? Is it price or nutrition, rice, chicken, etc.
What makes you buy the dog food you use?


I have two dogs, non hunters, just pets.

I'm currently on a downward trend... so to speak. Fed a lot of different foods over the years, mostly higher end stuff. For the last couple of years fed Pro Plan. Then, because of price, I decided to experiment with something cheaper (Sportsman's Pride) and it worked just as well. Then I decided to play around a little and see what would happen if I fed some cheaper foods with an ingredient list that I once would have objected to. So, I tried River Run, and it worked well ($15.99 for a 50lb bag). Cheap food, not the greatest ingredient list and I had to feed a little more. But it still worked well. So, now I've gone off the deep end with trying something new. Really just to see how my dogs do on it. It's a generic blend of end runs from various different foods. Comes in a plain white bag. The company puts the label of their lowest end product as a label. However, they claim that the ingredients and protein/fat percentages are better and higher than what's on the label since it's a mixture of other foods. I'm not even sure how this is legal. According to the rep, it is most likely at least a maintenance 21/10 or higher and possibly contains some kibble that is of a higher percentage.

So, as of now, I'm feeding a food that I don't really know what is in the bag and I don't really know what the protein/fat percentage is. The feed store I bought this from sells a lot of this generic food. It's basically like mixing kibbles or like buying a different type of food or variety every time you need a bag, two things that many dog owners do anyway. Through one bag, my dogs have done well, held weight and maintained firm stools.

I'm going to get another bag today ($10.99 for a 40lb bag). It's really more of an experiment now more than a cost savings venture even though it is really cheap. If the kibble in today's bag is completely different and the dog's do poorly then I'll drop this trial. However, if the food remains a fairly consistent product and my dogs continue to do well, then I'll stick with it.

Yeah, I know this is crazy, weird or out of the question for most people, but that's what I'm doing now.

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:55 am

GUNDOGS wrote:
Winchey wrote:Why are you always going on about how great by-products and corn are. Yes organ meat is a great feed, but when the label says chicken by-products you don't know if you are getting organ meet or a number of other things with very little nurtritional value. I am on the fence when it comes to corn. It is in everything, including our food. I have trouble when a food is expensive when one of the main ingredients is dirt cheap corn. My girlfriend is big on the super premium foods and and raw and all this and that. I like to feed something that is fit for consumption and they do well on and is reasonably priced. We are fortunate enough to get a couple of super premium dog food brands for free, thats what I feed, free. But the gf actually bought a $70 bag of wellness core because she thinks its a little better. Heck I live off of hot dogs and macorroni and cheese.
Sorry to comment here winchey when i know you are addressing someone else but i have to say you are exactly right!!..dog foods are different level of quality and its A FACT..some foods just put grains and and by products just to keep your dog alive but provide no nutritional value and you see all that goes in their mouth come out in the back yard because they didnt digest it because its crap and their body just eliminates it..it is just simply ridiculous to say blue buffalo or orijen are the same as ol'roy or mainstay!!..you take a dog with 15 piles a day in the backyard and switch him to a high quality food and see it go down to 2 because he is actually digesting food and his body is using it!!..the label does count ...ruth
Ruth, When I read something like you just wrote I normally think the writer knows better but I think you are being honest but have no idea what you are tlking about. By- Product meal has to meet strict requirement just like any other ingredient. And no one is saying there is not a difference but I will tell you there is not near as much as you think there is. And you didn't even use the best feeds in your example but rather the niche feeds that are designed to make you the owner feel good about the feed more than it is about the dog. You or I have never seen a performance dog being fed Orijen or probably Blue Buffalo. The reason is it is not designed to fulfil the needs of those dogs and when they are worked that hard they need a lot more energy than tose feeds provide. Practically every performance type feed contains corn because it is the best thing available to do that and it is something dogs naturally eat and like. Doesn't hurt that it is readily available and reasonably priced though I have a problem with something costing over 7 dollars a bushel to get into the mill as dirt cheap. There is so much more I would love to explain if I thought you really wanted to know but I'll just let it go for now. Much of it has already been discussed on this site over and over already.

One last question, let us know of a single person who buys the feeds you are listing as being good by the ton or that feeds it to a kennel full of dogs. And also show me the difference in the dogs eating it and those dogs that are eating the stuff that are full of grain and htose terrible by-products that are designed to just keep a dog alive. Feeds like Diamond And the Pro Pac or Loyall's. You are welcome to spend your dollar anyway you like but I still want to see the difference in the animals.

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by mcbosco » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:09 am

http://www.hilarywatson.com/chicken.pdf

Ruth, this is a good read. Just shows when it comes to by-products some grades are just as good and save a ton of money.

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by big steve46 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:19 am

[quote=". Feeds like Diamond And the Pro Pac or Loyall's. You are welcome to spend your dollar anyway you like but I still want to see the difference in the animals.

Ezzy[/quote]


I tend to agree. Most working dogs do well on most good feeds. I would not feed the lower end feeds like a generic or Ol'Roy, although most dogs do ok with them, but require a higher volume. The highly expensive feeds are probably not cost effective, and most of them are not any better than say a Loyall AA or a Nutrisource.

I do believe allergies and/or sensitivities should be a consideration in problem dogs, and Vets should probably have more training in those areas.
big steve

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by GUNDOGS » Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:18 am

@mcbosco..i know of hillary watson she is a pet nutrition consultant and freelance writer as well as a breeder..i have some of her info in my books from school.....ruth

@ezzy..calmly i will try to reply to your post implying i dont know what i am talking about..after many deep breaths that is!!..this post of mine was first of all based on MY situation with MY DOG..your comment that it was really not an issue with most people is like i said ridiculous..also i dont have a kennel full of dogs but if i did i would absolutely try different kinds of food to see what is best and most affordable for my dogs not one or the other but both BEST AND MOST AFFORDABLE just as i have done with any dogs i have had whether it be 1 or 10..i am not saying that blue buffalo or orijen are top of the line never said they were i just compared foods listed on the label and the obvious difference in quality as well as how the dog will digest and use it for nutrition value..i mean seriously you are going to say that just as long as a dog food doesnt kill your dogs its good enough? and they thrive the same as a dog on a good diet?..that dont make sense and its what im hearing you say..as far as corn goes its not easily digested by dogs but is cheap to put in dogfood so its used alot as the first few ingredients because yes it does fill the dog up..its also a carb with a high glycemic index and causes a raise in blood pressure and weight gain and diarrhea as well as gas in dogs as noted by the FDA and AAFCO when researched but still safe for consumption..i could eat corn all day and get full and not to be graphic but i will see every bit of what i ate again later :wink: because my body didnt digest it..

BYPRODUCTS-parts derived from sources OTHER than meat

BY PRODUCT MEAL- examples are restaurant grease, out of date super market meat, dead, dying or diseased or disabled livestock used and approved to be labelled as meal

By the way i dont ever recall saying that because i use the food i use for my dog with allergies is what i would use if i had a kennel full of dogs..but if i did have a kennel full of dogs with allergies and fed them a food with the problem i would have a kennle full of dead dogs not healthy ones..you feed a food with corn as its main ingredient and think you are geting a good quality food with a good source of protein you are not..

Dog foods are by law required to list ingredients in order of their amounts on the label so you should have good sources of protein as the first ingredients not corn..also anyone who uses low quality food is entitled just as anyone who choses a better quality of food or BARF diet..its all upto each individual and so far my dogs alive and well because of my choices so i must not be too dumb.....ruth
Last edited by GUNDOGS on Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by GUNDOGS » Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:28 am

big steve46 wrote:[quote=". Feeds like Diamond And the Pro Pac or Loyall's. You are welcome to spend your dollar anyway you like but I still want to see the difference in the animals.

Ezzy

I tend to agree. Most working dogs do well on most good feeds. I would not feed the lower end feeds like a generic or Ol'Roy, although most dogs do ok with them, but require a higher volume. The highly expensive feeds are probably not cost effective, and most of them are not any better than say a Loyall AA or a Nutrisource.

I do believe allergies and/or sensitivities should be a consideration in problem dogs, and Vets should probably have more training in those areas.[/quote]
You are right big steve46..allergies and sensitivities are to be considered and a vet should be consulted..it saved my dogs life..i dont think you should ever base a choice of food simply by name or price.. i did alot searching and looking at labels before chosing one and checked with the vet for his recommendations which paid off since my dogs here at my feet and still alive!! :mrgreen: ...ruth
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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by nanney1 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:56 am

I don't know the laws, federal or state, but was told this piece of info by a pet food rep. In North Carolina, feeds are only checked to make sure that the amount of protein listed is correct. Apparently, feeds are chosen randomly and tested against the protein percentage labeled on the bag.

That is apparently how the generic overrun food can be sold in this state, though it may not be sold in others states, I don't know. But by labeling the generic overrun with their lowest percentage label, they ensure that it will pass testing if it is ever randomly selected, since the overrun foods are of a higher percentage. Apparently, the ingredient label is of no consequence to the state testing process. So, while it may be required to put the actual ingredients and the order by percentage, it isn't tested and there may be no way to accurately test such a thing.

You can let your mind run wild with the possibilities of what an ingredient list may or may not mean. Again, just something I was told.

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by birddogger » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:14 am

Too many times the single pet dog family try to give the dog human qualities and dogs just aren't made that way. And the sad thing is the dogs are the ones suffering from all of this.

Ezzy
I agree 100 percent!!! Now to the original question, I fed Sport mix 24/20 for a couple of years with good results. But for whatever reason, I started having trouble keeping weight on two of my shorthairs. I started feeding more but just ended up with more stool and no results. I recently switched to Black Gold 26/18 and within two weeks the weight is back on. My other dog was still doing great on the Sport mix, but I switched him too because I don't want to buy two different brands.

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by birddogger » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:22 am

johnson48 wrote:I dont want to steal this thread.... But its obviously been duplicated many, many times.
I just have to know why the dog community has such a strong opinion, curiosity, debate over the dog food brands? You would think you would see this in something in the form of baby foods, but even there its not even strongly debated like this topic. What drives this so heavily? My first inclination is the marketing strategies are really working, but not sure.
Repeat something often enough and long enough and it becomes the truth in many people's eyes. :wink: I prefer to watch my dogs and wallet to tell me what works.

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by Winchey » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:27 am

I am really tired of that assumption. The mamalian brain, species to species is more alike than different. We as humans think we are so significant because we give ourselves significance. Our society, culture, religion, race etc.. is only meaningful because the meaning exists in our own mind. In reality we are but a speck on a big rock hurtling around a giant ball of gass in a vance expanse of mostly nothingness. We will all be in the same place in 4 billion years when that ball burns out, if we make it that long.

On another note, we can't even trust our own food to be 100% safe, why should we trust pet food to be? Furthermore why should we be content to pay premium dollars for food that doesen't pass the test to make it onto our own tables?

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by GUNDOGS » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:53 am

birddogger wrote:
Too many times the single pet dog family try to give the dog human qualities and dogs just aren't made that way. And the sad thing is the dogs are the ones suffering from all of this.

Ezzy
I agree 100 percent!!! Now to the original question, I fed Sport mix 24/20 for a couple of years with good results. But for whatever reason, I started having trouble keeping weight on two of my shorthairs. I started feeding more but just ended up with more stool and no results. I recently switched to Black Gold 26/18 and within two weeks the weight is back on. My other dog was still doing great on the Sport mix, but I switched him too because I don't want to buy two different brands.

Charlie
Black gold is a good food my friend feeds it to her pointer..one of the ones i looked at switching my dog to because the ULTIMATE ADULT formula is free of corn, wheat, soy, fillers, artificial color and chemical preservatives..only thing that stopped me was the chicken(because hes allergic).. you switched your dogs to a food that also guarantees 50% less clean up because of the nutrition value and it being highly digestable..it must work if you are seeing results!..if you only had 1 dog you would be giving your dog human qualities by doing what is best for it?.or did you switch for their better health and overall improvement seeing as it was 2 dogs that had the issues?...ruth
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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by birddogger » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:55 am

Winchey wrote:I am really tired of that assumption. The mamalian brain, species to species is more alike than different. We as humans think we are so significant because we give ourselves significance. Our society, culture, religion, race etc.. is only meaningful because the meaning exists in our own mind. In reality we are but a speck on a big rock hurtling around a giant ball of gass in a vance expanse of mostly nothingness. We will all be in the same place in 4 billion years when that ball burns out, if we make it that long.

On another note, we can't even trust our own food to be 100% safe, why should we trust pet food to be? Furthermore why should we be content to pay premium dollars for food that doesen't pass the test to make it onto our own tables?

http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/anima ... -disorders
It is not an assumption, it is a fact. I see it every day and have observed it for a number of years. I talk to a lot of people who do not think for themselves, and rely only on what the news media, or somebody with an agenda is telling them, for instance, global warming and why. I agree we are nothing but a speck on a rock, but I don't see what that has to do with what we are discussing.

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by Winchey » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:59 am

I don't see what people following one another makes us different than dogs. We expect them to follow us. If you raise a child with the same techniques as a dog, you are going to end up with a dog, we expect different things from them. It is just dicipline and teaching. Some of the techniques are different considering humans understand language and are more intelligent.

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by birddogger » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:10 pm

Ruth, the only reason I switched was because something seemed to have changed. If I only had one dog, I would be doing nothing different. There have been very few times that I felt like I needed to switch because of health concerns. Generally, the only time I switched was due to price increase or availability. My dogs have always done well on most of the brands I have used.
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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by birddogger » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:14 pm

Winchey, no different than dogs?? Really?? We may be in bigger trouble than I realized!

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by GUNDOGS » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:33 pm

birddogger wrote:Ruth, the only reason I switched was because something seemed to have changed. If I only had one dog, I would be doing nothing different. There have been very few times that I felt like I needed to switch because of health concerns. Generally, the only time I switched was due to price increase or availability. My dogs have always done well on most of the brands I have used.
That was all i was saying..it has been implied by ezzy that people do things differently because its one dog(they humanize them) but if they had a kennel full they would do things differently..i seen you had agreed to that thought and wondered why?..if you had 1 or 7 experiencing weight loss or hair loss or any other symptoms you would do what it takes to fix it because you are a responsible dog owner and although you take into consideration your wallet(and so do I) you still watched your dogs and when they werent doing well you changed their food as a first step..now you see improvement..again changes in a dogs health because of their food is more of a common thing than people think whether its sensitivities or allergies or whatever...ruth
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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by Winchey » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:42 pm

birddogger wrote:Winchey, no different than dogs?? Really?? We may be in bigger trouble than I realized!

Charlie
No, I said we are more similar than different. Big difference. People act as if dogs are completely alien and share no human qualities, thought processes or emotions, which is flat out wrong.

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by birddogger » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:24 pm

GUNDOGS wrote:
birddogger wrote:Ruth, the only reason I switched was because something seemed to have changed. If I only had one dog, I would be doing nothing different. There have been very few times that I felt like I needed to switch because of health concerns. Generally, the only time I switched was due to price increase or availability. My dogs have always done well on most of the brands I have used.
That was all i was saying..it has been implied by ezzy that people do things differently because its one dog(they humanize them) but if they had a kennel full they would do things differently..i seen you had agreed to that thought and wondered why?..if you had 1 or 7 experiencing weight loss or hair loss or any other symptoms you would do what it takes to fix it because you are a responsible dog owner and although you take into consideration your wallet(and so do I) you still watched your dogs and when they werent doing well you changed their food as a first step..now you see improvement..again changes in a dogs health because of their food is more of a common thing than people think whether its sensitivities or allergies or whatever...ruth
Ruth, I did agree with Ezzy on that. I wouldn't do anything different with only one dog, but many people do. I have seen too many dogs in one dog house holds that are grossly over weight, they are fed expensive dog food that may not be in the best interest of the dog and all kinks of human food. I have even heard people brag about how spoiled and fat their dog is. You have a reason to feed a grain free food and I understand that, but it is the exception and not the rule. We just don't want people who are learning, to think they have to feed an expensive, grain free food to have healthy dogs. That is all I am saying.

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by Winchey » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:52 pm

If that is your idea of humanizing thank you for proving my point. You give in and spoil your dog it is no different then spoiling your kid. How many kids suffer from only child syndrome. Kids and dogs both do what works, you give in once and it is that much harder to break.

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by Winchey » Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:10 pm

When you talk about humanizing your definition almost always has the same implications towards people as they do dogs and you make it out like they need to be treated totally different. It is much better described as Rick Smith does when he talks about "Love and Respect"

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Re: What Dog Food and Why?

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:51 pm

Winchey wrote:When you talk about humanizing your definition almost always has the same implications towards people as they do dogs and you make it out like they need to be treated totally different. It is much better described as Rick Smith does when he talks about "Love and Respect"
There is a tremendous difference in dogs and kids though raising them is done in much of the same way. The big difference is people have rights and dogs do not. You have the responsibility to care for any animal that you have taken away the ability to care for themselves but that is where it ends. Your child was born with the right to live, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and those are not man made or given by man. Your dog was born with the right to be taken care of since we dont allow them to take care of themselves.

The dog we are talking about when we talk about feeding is the animal you like or love depending on you that also goes out and eats every kind of poop it can find, will eat every roadkill it finds and the rottener the better and if it is beyond eating they roll in it. Your dog is the animal that knows you and everyone else by smell and also is quite interested in your sexual state so it smells and tastes the urine you or another dog expels in your house or yard. So yes if your dog is going to be healthy and happy you better treat it different than your kids. They just haven't quite developed yet into a thinking responsible human individual and I don't think most of them would want to be.

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