Lyle Steinman Interview

[northUpland]

For me it's always cool to hear what works from some of the best in the biz! http://www.northupland.blogspot.com/ I just had a nice conversation with Lyle and it was very interesting to hear what makes his dogs consistent winners.

Mark Northup
http://www.northupland.blogspot.com

[Cajun Casey]

Okay, I read it. Proof? Country Vet Dog Fuel.

Suggestion? Get on Facebook. It's where all the cool kids are.

[ezzy333]

Nice looking site but am concerned there is no reference or link to Gun Dog Forum. We would like to see that if we are going to post your site.

I liked the looks of the Country Vet dog food but then was kind of taken back by the comments made as a dog nutritionist when it was stated it was a good grain free feed when the ingredient list listed 6 different grains in it. Makes me wonder if that was just some marketing speal about what actually looks like a good feed.

Ezzy

[big steve46]

Country Vet looks like a great feed, but no better than several others. If you bought one bag, and you had to pay over 80 cents a pound, it would be overpriced though.

[MikeB]

It didn't say it was grain free.... it said NO wheat, corn, soy.

[ezzy333]

Country Vet looks like a great feed, but no better than several others. If you bought one bag, and you had to pay over 80 cents a pound, it would be overpriced though.

Does look good but have wondered for a long time how you can tell just from looking at a bag what it should cost? We always based the cost on ingredient costs + overhead costs =transportation costs and then added a small percentage for profit that was needed to cover future costs. I have no idea what any of those costs are by looking at the bag.

I have a good idea what a good food can be bought for but have no idea what any brand of feed costs so I have no idea if its overpriced or not.

Ezzy

[big steve46]

Country Vet looks like a great feed, but no better than several others. If you bought one bag, and you had to pay over 80 cents a pound, it would be overpriced though.

Does look good but have wondered for a long time how you can tell just from looking at a bag what it should cost? We always based the cost on ingredient costs + overhead costs =transportation costs and then added a small percentage for profit that was needed to cover future costs. I have no idea what any of those costs are by looking at the bag.

I have a good idea what a good food can be bought for but have no idea what any brand of feed costs so I have no idea if its overpriced or not.

Ezzy

There's no doubt the list of ingredients is just a rough guide, but it is that at least. The quality of the ingredients, how they are put together, assimilative ability etc are the keys. Of course, how the dog processes the feed, how the dog looks, and how the dog performs are paramount.

[northUpland]

Ezzy & Guys,

Hopefully you will let me clarify things.

I don't write or do interviews to push one brand of food or another. I do them to get insight from professionals who rely on the success of their dogs for their sole means of income. I believe it is a very interesting message and I try to remain unbiased in my approach while relaying what I feel is news worthy information. No, I don't work for Country Vet or any dog food brand and have NEVER received payment for any article posted on my blog. The Lyle Steinman article was not a marketing "speal". Neither was my Ronnie Smith article which highlighted his use of Pro Plan.

Regards to a weblink to GDF, I contacted the owners of this site a couple months ago when I joined and let them know I would be including a link to GDF on my blog site, which I did then. It is under the "resources link" if you missed it(#1 link). I think this forum is great and enjoy visiting every once in awhile. I would love to throw a GDF logo on my home page if you send me one!

I also did not intentionally call CV Natural Dog Fuel a true grain free as you mentioned. The verbiage might have been confusing if read quickly as the words grain and free in a sentence near each other to describe a food that was minus low biological value grains sources such as corn, soy, and wheat could be easily misunderstood.

At the end of the day it is every dog owners personal decision what dog food is best to feed. No doubt there are thousands options out there and countless opinions as well! My blog is hopefully just another option for those investigating on their own. Nothing more. Nothing less. Take it for what it's worth.

Best of luck out there.

Mark Northup
http://www.northupland.blogspot.com

[ezzy333]

Ezzy & Guys,

Hopefully you will let me clarify things.

I also did not intentionally call CV Natural Dog Fuel a true grain free as you mentioned. The verbiage might have been confusing if read quickly as the words grain and free in a sentence near each other to describe a food that was minus low biological value grains sources such as corn, soy, and wheat could be easily misunderstood.

Best of luck out there.

Mark Northup
http://www.northupland.blogspot.com

Sorry but all I can do is read what you write and not what you meant. I think it even starts out as a dog nutritionist. But this quote does confuse me when you say oats are good wheat isn't and milo is good corn isn't and I never found an animal that barley was good for unless you are making beer and giving it to them. You are probably right, it is personal but I think it would be hard to convince people that corn is bad when every food test going shows it is one of the best and practically every company that makes a performance type feed uses it and most of the performance dogs are eating it.

Ezzy

[northUpland]

Ezzy,

Please understand...what I know or believe as fact is not what interviewing a professional is about. I am merely relaying his personal opinion on a particular food in journalistic form. I did NOT elaborate on specific ingredient's postive or negative but made an overall assessment. Anything else would be offensive to the person who was gracious enough to led his own insight. You are missing the complete picture. This interview is only about what Lyle has to say about his OWN dog's performance. You are killing the messager here. The same can be said about the Ronnie Smith article but nobody relied to that? Why not?

[nikegundog]

Please understand...what I know or believe as fact is not what interviewing a professional is about. I am merely relaying his personal opinion on a particular food in jounalistic form.

Anything else would be offensive to the person who was gracious enough to led his own insight.

Actually knowing what is fact and questioning it is good journalistic form and shouldn't be offensive to the person being questioned.

[ezzy333]

Ezzy & Guys,

Hopefully you will let me clarify things.

I don't write or do interviews to push one brand of food or another. I do them to get insight from professionals who rely on the success of their dogs for their sole means of income. I believe it is a very interesting message and I try to remain unbiased in my approach while relaying what I feel is news worthy information. No, I don't work for Country Vet or any dog food brand and have NEVER received payment for any article posted on my blog. The Lyle Steinman article was not a marketing "speal". Neither was my Ronnie Smith article which highlighted his use of Pro Plan.

Regards to a weblink to GDF, I contacted the owners of this site a couple months ago when I joined and let them know I would be including a link to GDF on my blog site, which I did then. It is under the "resources link" if you missed it(#1 link). I think this forum is great and enjoy visiting every once in awhile. I would love to throw a GDF logo on my home page if you send me one!

I also did not intentionally call CV Natural Dog Fuel a true grain free as you mentioned. The verbiage might have been confusing if read quickly as the words grain and free in a sentence near each other to describe a food that was minus low biological value grains sources such as corn, soy, and wheat could be easily misunderstood.

At the end of the day it is every dog owners personal decision what dog food is best to feed. No doubt there are thousands options out there and countless opinions as well! My blog is hopefully just another option for those investigating on their own. Nothing more. Nothing less. Take it for what it's worth.

Best of luck out there.

Mark Northup
http://www.northupland.blogspot.com

[Cajun Casey]

Ezzy,

Please understand...what I know or believe as fact is not what interviewing a professional is about. I am merely relaying his personal opinion on a particular food in journalistic form. I did NOT elaborate on specific ingredient's postive or negative but made an overall assessment. Anything else would be offensive to the person who was gracious enough to led his own insight. You are missing the complete picture. This interview is only about what Lyle has to say about his OWN dog's performance. You are killing the messager here. The same can be said about the Ronnie Smith article but nobody relied to that? Why not?

I replied. I even commented on Ronnie's tech savvy.

[big steve46]

Ezzy,



I replied. I even commented on Ronnie's tech savvy.

-----

Do you think that makes you smart or something?

[Cajun Casey]

Ezzy,



I replied. I even commented on Ronnie's tech savvy.

-----

Do you think that makes you smart or something?

Special.

Lay information on nutrition is subjective. I really prefer to see related advanced degrees on the source when I research nutrition.

[big steve46]

The best research on dog nutrition is subjective and anecdotal for the most part. It's where the rubber meets the road so to speak.

Academic research has it's place, but in field experience with hunting dogs, and feeding to accomplish good results trumps statistics and charts.

[ezzy333]

The best research on dog nutrition is subjective and anecdotal for the most part. It's where the rubber meets the road so to speak.

Academic research has it's place, but in field experience with hunting dogs, and feeding to accomplish good results trumps statistics and charts.

The statics and charts were arrived at by feeding hunting dogs. One of the reasons dog nutrion just like other animal nutrition is ahead of human nutrition is we can post the animals when we need to to see what is really happening with in the body and we can't do that with humans. Thats why much of the human nutrition is taken from animal studies.

You are right about good results but those results are gained from feeding the way the tests and studies have shown what is the best for the dog.

Ezzy

[ezzy333]

The best research on dog nutrition is subjective and anecdotal for the most part. It's where the rubber meets the road so to speak.

Academic research has it's place, but in field experience with hunting dogs, and feeding to accomplish good results trumps statistics and charts.

The statics and charts were arrived at by feeding hunting dogs. One of the reasons dog nutrition just like other animal nutrition is ahead of human nutrition is we can post the animals when we need to to see what is really happening with in the body and we can't do that with humans. That's why much of the human nutrition is taken from animal studies.

You are right about good results butand those result have come about because of the millions of dollars that have been spent in lab research and then proven in feeding tests that are done in the field
.
Ezzy

[big steve46]

The best research on dog nutrition is subjective and anecdotal for the most part. It's where the rubber meets the road so to speak.

Academic research has it's place, but in field experience with hunting dogs, and feeding to accomplish good results trumps statistics and charts.

The statics and charts were arrived at by feeding hunting dogs. One of the reasons dog nutrition just like other animal nutrition is ahead of human nutrition is we can post the animals when we need to to see what is really happening with in the body and we can't do that with humans. That's why much of the human nutrition is taken from animal studies.

You are right about good results butand those result have come about because of the millions of dollars that have been spent in lab research and then proven in feeding tests that are done in the field
.
Ezzy

Perhaps I should have said experience with dogs ultimately trumps anything else assuming there is first reliance on decent researched feeds. It's just that using a feed or feeds for years with many dogs achieves a higher level of realization of what a well put together feed will do.

There's no doubt that animal research is probably more exacting and accurate since performance of the animal is so important. Research in human nutrition has always been limited and biased. The RDAs set for humans are too low for optimum health. Nutrition's importance for good health is just now coming to the forefront due to politics of profit motives of the drug industry. Animal's feed is naturally more nutritious due to not having most of the good nutrients refined out.
I guess though we still have to experience and see the performance in our animals to validate the research.

[Cajun Casey]

It also helps if you are educated enough to make use of the information.

[big steve46]

It also helps if you are educated enough to make use of the information.

Sometimes, too much education can be a problem. That's why we have to be down-to-earth and not talk over the heads of you less educated ones.

[Cajun Casey]

It also helps if you are educated enough to make use of the information.

Sometimes, too much education can be a problem. That's why we have to be down-to-earth and not talk over the heads of you less educated ones.

Yes, we in stub-tailed off brand land need those kind of concessions. And we do appreciate it.

[nanney1]

Just looked at the ingredient list and noticed that it contained sorghum. Corn free, but contains sorghum. Hmmm.

[GUNDOGS]

Ezzy & Guys,

Hopefully you will let me clarify things.

I also did not intentionally call CV Natural Dog Fuel a true grain free as you mentioned. The verbiage might have been confusing if read quickly as the words grain and free in a sentence near each other to describe a food that was minus low biological value grains sources such as corn, soy, and wheat could be easily misunderstood.

Best of luck out there.

Mark Northup
http://www.northupland.blogspot.com

Sorry but all I can do is read what you write and not what you meant. I think it even starts out as a dog nutritionist. But this quote does confuse me when you say oats are good wheat isn't and milo is good corn isn't and I never found an animal that barley was good for unless you are making beer and giving it to them. You are probably right, it is personal but I think it would be hard to convince people that corn is bad when every food test going shows it is one of the best and practically every company that makes a performance type feed uses it and most of the performance dogs are eating it.

Ezzy

Ezzy,
And lets not forget that practically every company that makes a performance type feed also has a corn free alternative food for a reason also!!...ruth

[ezzy333]

And lets not forget that practically every company that makes a performance type feed also has a corn free alternative food for a reason also!!...ruth

Of course they do! They feed a lot of dogs that are not performance dogs, and a lot of dogs that belong to people who still believe many of the old wives tales going around, and a very few dogs with health problems that need a special type feed.

We never made one since we stuck to one formula that seemed to satify all of the primarily country dogs we targeted and a few large kennels.

Ezzy

[dog dr]

what is interesting to me is that when you click on Country Vets homepage, and look at their products, all the feeds listed have corn in them. the only one that doesnt is the one thisb trainer is feeding, and apparaently it is not available to the general public, unless I just missed it on the site.


EDIT: Woops!! i missed it, my mistake. guess that what starts to happen when you are approaching 40!

[MikeB]

Just wait till you get to 50.... or almost 60 like ME? It gets scarier every year.

[GUNDOGS]

And lets not forget that practically every company that makes a performance type feed also has a corn free alternative food for a reason also!!...ruth

Of course they do! They feed a lot of dogs that are not performance dogs, and a lot of dogs that belong to people who still believe many of the old wives tales going around, and a very few dogs with health problems that need a special type feed.

We never made one since we stuck to one formula that seemed to satify all of the primarily country dogs we targeted and a few large kennels.

Ezzy

And you forgot the people who have performance dogs that have health issues as well, however few you think there may be..and it is not an old wives tale that corn is not easily digested, thats a fact...come on ezzy you have had to have seen at some point that corn comes out the same way it went in, tell me any other ingredient that can perform such magic ....ruth

[Cajun Casey]

GMOs. Enough said.

[mcbosco]

Just wait till you get to 50.... or almost 60 like ME? It gets scarier every year.

And lets not forget that practically every company that makes a performance type feed also has a corn free alternative food for a reason also!!...ruth

Of course they do! They feed a lot of dogs that are not performance dogs, and a lot of dogs that belong to people who still believe many of the old wives tales going around, and a very few dogs with health problems that need a special type feed.

We never made one since we stuck to one formula that seemed to satify all of the primarily country dogs we targeted and a few large kennels.

Ezzy

And you forgot the people who have performance dogs that have health issues as well, however few you think there may be..and it is not an old wives tale that corn is not easily digested, thats a fact...come on ezzy you have had to have seen at some point that corn comes out the same way it went in, tell me any other ingredient that can perform such magic ....ruth

Ruth, your statement on corn is totally false. Almost every vet school in the country has concluded that corn is as easy to digest as any other grain and is no more of an allergen than rice. The corn myth has only resulted in consumers spending more money. I cannot think of a legitimate competitive formula without some corn in it.

Even some of the fancy brands that are honest about ingredients use corn:

http://phdproducts.com/main/corn.asp

[Cajun Casey]

Canidae.

[mcbosco]

Canidae.

Canidae is a good companion animal formula. I am talking about working dog foods. They all have some corn.

[Cajun Casey]

Canidae.

Canidae is a good companion animal formula. I am talking about working dog foods. They all have some corn.

Lots of agility and herding competitors feed it.

[GUNDOGS]

Canidae.

Canidae is a good companion animal formula. I am talking about working dog foods. They all have some corn.

Lots of agility and herding competitors feed it.

Bryce Mann is a pro trainer and avid hunter who writes for Gundogs unlimited, Pointing Dog Journal and gundog magazine, he is sponsored by Tri tronics, Happy jack and Hi-viz sights...He owns 4 shorthairs and feeds Canidae All life Stages Grain free formula..he has written many articles regarding the benefits of the grain free diet and lack of abilities for dogs to digest corn..also on another note dog food companies use poor grade corn(livestock grade) and too much of it.. not premium grade corn which may be easier to digest and utilize..livestock grade corn is high in corn gluten and the gluten bonds protein molecules and other food elements which prohibits them from being digested, undigested food elements become a food antigen which causes an allergic reaction........ruth

[GUNDOGS]

For me it's always cool to hear what works from some of the best in the biz! http://www.northupland.blogspot.com/ I just had a nice conversation with Lyle and it was very interesting to hear what makes his dogs consistent winners.

Mark Northup
http://www.northupland.blogspot.com

Great link and info "NorthUpland"....thanks for sharing.....ruth

[Cajun Casey]

It's actually the covering of the kernel that is indigestible in corn. As far as anyone touting great results from Canidae ALS grainfree, it had to happen quickly because that formula has been out less than a year.

[ezzy333]

And lets not forget that practically every company that makes a performance type feed also has a corn free alternative food for a reason also!!...ruth

Of course they do! They feed a lot of dogs that are not performance dogs, and a lot of dogs that belong to people who still believe many of the old wives tales going around, and a very few dogs with health problems that need a special type feed.

We never made one since we stuck to one formula that seemed to satisfy all of the primarily country dogs we targeted and a few large kennels.

Ezzy

And you forgot the people who have performance dogs that have health issues as well, however few you think there may be..and it is not an old wives tale that corn is not easily digested, thats a fact...come on ezzy you have had to have seen at some point that corn comes out the same way it went in, tell me any other ingredient that can perform such magic ....ruth

Once again it is time to teach something most people have learned. What you see is the hull of the kernel of corn. And the only time you see it if you are eating corn while it is still in the dough state like sweet corn or with animals is the high moisture corn we store in the big blue airtight silos so it won't spoil. If the corn is dry it breaks up when the corn is chewed as it is quite brittle at that stage of development. Now if you don't want to take my word for that lets think why they don't include corn in most diets where you are trying to lose weight? It is not because it all goes through you with out being digested. If that was true we would all be eating nothing but corn when we go on a diet. Or why do we feed it to every animal we are feeding for the purpose of rapid economical growth such as pigs and cattle? It is strictly because it is the best carb source you can buy and luckily one of the widely spread availability and at a reasonable cost to boot. There just isn't any way to get around the fact that it may be the most important ingredient for livestock as well as human food in the world. The only ones that come close are wheat and rice. And the advantage corn has over them is it carries a fair amount of protein and a lot of fat compared to the others. That's why it is so important as a feed stuff because of all that it does to promote good health, provide a high energy source, and do it all cheaper than the inferior ingredients that it takes to replace it.

Ruth, I am not trying to pull your chain, but I am trying to give you the straight facts that have been proven over and over again but there are some in the dog food world that are trying desperately to find a niche to market their feed to and they have chosen to stray a little from the truth of the facts to do it and a lot of people who have a dog or two for pets and try to treat them like they are human have bought into it. It's the same with the marketing propaganda that has convinced people that the dogs have a high rate of allergies to it or the other grains that are used in the feed. Again this lets them sell grain feed feeds at a premium and it just isn't so. We have found over years of testing that somewhere up in the area of 90% of the dogs that show any sign of allergies are allergic to something in their environment and not their feed. Feed allergies are very rare. But then on top of those figures , practically all food allergies are caused by a protein source. Look at those two facts and you can see that in actuality an allergy to a grain is some where in the area of 2 to 3 percent of the 5% of dogs that have a food allergy. I think it will figure out somewhere near i in every 10000 might have an allergy to corn or wheat or rice.

I know this proves nothing but out of the hundreds of dogs we have dealt with over the years we are yet to find one allergic to their feed We have had a few come to us with food allergies but it was discovered to be something else in every case. The worse one was a dog that came with a premium grain free dry food, cans of Alpo to mix in so he would eat. two pills a day for his colitis, and the worse hair coat you ever saw. The first night there he was taken off of all of his feed and had a lower quality feed put down with as I recall 10 or 12% percent protein and 8% fat. The dog ate the feed and continued on it from that day forward. In the first 30 days he had no medical problems whatsoever gained 5 pounds and started getting a sheen to his coat. The dog was being killed slowly by trying to force feed when he didn't want to eat and was starving to death for the minerals and vitamins he needed along with some good balanced nutrition that let the whole GI tract get healthy and back to working like it was supposed too.

Was just a case of the sweetest older lady you would ever meet almost killing her dog with kindness. I know you have a dog with problems and you are doing everything you can for it and seems you are doing well. But we also have to be aware that these are dogs we are talking about that rarely if ever have sensitive stomach and can digest about anything and everything dead or alive and it makes little difference how long it has been dead. They love and digest excrement from practically every animal they have ever met and will eat about anything including grain and do well on it if given free choice. The chances of you ever seeing another dog with the problems you dog has are just about nil. And you need to start looking at the results of thousands of feed test conducted both in labs and in the field and use that information to make your choices rather than something you heard or some company has told you on how to feed your dog. You are smarter than that.

Ezzy

[GUNDOGS]

Ezzy, my "it goes in the same way it came out comment was a joke" you were suppose to laugh ...but thanks for the info..also i never go by "soley" what a dog food says(which is how most people choose a feed by the way)..i had allergy tests, blood tests done on my dog, met with animal nutritionists, vets and did alot of my own reading and research before choosing my dogs food and out of all of it the ONLY thing i base my facts on are the results..thats all anyone can do..see i have tried lots of feed over the years, ive had and been around dogs my hole life..i know a dog can live and get by on anything my mom fed our dogs "gainsburgers" in those little plastic hamburger shaped packs haha..unless you have tried say the canidae all life stage grain free diet or taste of the wild or any other grain, corn free feed on your dogs and the results were that your dogs could no longer perform a long day out in the field and they looked like crap with dull coats ect i dont think you or anyone else can say it is not good enough for a performance dog to work/hunt all day, now if your arguement is its not economical thats different, if someone feeds mainstay at 15 bucks a 40 pound bag and their dog does well on it so they tried it, have no issues and its affordable well then it works for THEM right and they can share their opinion of mainstay based on fact cause they used it and got those results..if someones dog doesnt have any medical issues at all, they may still choose taste of the wild or blue or another grain free diet and their dogs may out last or out perform a dog on a grain,corn feed thats all im saying..maybe i am misunderstanding your arguement on behalf of corn and grain but i get from your comments that feeds that dont include grain or corn are gimmicks and are not good enough for performance dogs and i just have not seen that be a fact with anyone who USES it ......ruth

[northUpland]

Actually knowing what is fact and questioning it is good journalistic form and shouldn't be offensive to the person being questioned.[/quote]


Nikegundog,

Your comment would be very true if I was doing an investigative report solely on CV food. But I was not. This particular informative article is all about Lyle, his dogs performance, and how he has become a consistent winner, not just with his chosen feed but his conditioning and training regiments. Hence the title "Lyle Steinman on Performance". When I see a handler who lives solely on the backs of his dogs performance, I get to wondering what makes him tick($190k is a lot to me)

Thanks. -Mark

[ezzy333]

After investigating the Country Vet's website on my own here, is what they have to say:

I think this is what lead me to think that you were the one that made the statement, which has been deleted since I originally commented on it, "as a dog nutritionist".

It is a good interview but I just wish you had stood up for what you said and recommended about the feed instead of denying it, but then editting it out. There is nothing wrong with their feed that I can see but never seeing it or trying it I can't say anymore about it.

Ezzy

[northUpland]

Ezzy,

The sentence you question about "as a dog nutritionist" was indeed editted and replaced with the words "I consider"... etc. '"I" still reveals the obvious to readers that the author is making the statement. Why? The article is currently being trimmed down to fit another publication who requires a lower overall word count. I never denied what I said. You lost me on that one partner! -Mark