Supplements

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Cajun Casey
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Supplements

Post by Cajun Casey » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:40 pm

Anyone use supplements for joint support, coat condition, anti-oxidant, or anything else?

What kind?
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big steve46
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Re: Supplements

Post by big steve46 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:09 am

I used Glucos-Choin capsules for my old Llewellin for a couple of years. I got them under another label, but Puritan's Pride is available to everyone, and it's the same. Some products are better than others

Fortunately, supplementation is not needed as much with dogs as it is with humans, because dog's food is more nutritional.
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Re: Supplements

Post by jlp8cornell » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:49 am

Both of mine get Dasuquin because they have both had stifle surgeries. I use it more as a preventative measure. They also get ~2T. fish oil/day for joint health as well.

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Re: Supplements

Post by 1vizsla » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:45 am

Missing Link and Salmon Oil because both dogs have had injuries. Works for us.

Carla

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Re: Supplements

Post by mcbosco » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:16 am

Annamaet Impact is a good one for heavily worked dogs, lots of protein, fat, extra stress vitamins, pre & probiotics and easy to travel with.

There is no evidence in people or in animals that joint support supplements does anything so I wouldn't pick a supplement on this basis.

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Re: Supplements

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:22 am

mcbosco wrote:Annamaet Impact is a good one for heavily worked dogs, lots of protein, fat, extra stress vitamins, pre & probiotics and easy to travel with.

There is no evidence in people or in animals that joint support supplements does anything so I wouldn't pick a supplement on this basis.
I agree. There is no evidence that any supplement is needed on a regular basis. My experience tells me the same thing. Our dog foods of today provide everything a dog needs nutritionly.

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Re: Supplements

Post by lvrgsp » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:42 am

Yep

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Re: Supplements

Post by big steve46 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:53 am

mcbosco wrote:Annamaet Impact is a good one for heavily worked dogs, lots of protein, fat, extra stress vitamins, pre & probiotics and easy to travel with.

There is no evidence in people or in animals that joint support supplements does anything so I wouldn't pick a supplement on this basis.
I have evidence per personal and professional experience that joint health is enhanced in many cases. Double blind studies are not done much on treatments that don't make the drug industry rich.

In humans, the RDAs are set too low for optimum health.
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Re: Supplements

Post by mcbosco » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:09 am

big steve46 wrote:
mcbosco wrote:Annamaet Impact is a good one for heavily worked dogs, lots of protein, fat, extra stress vitamins, pre & probiotics and easy to travel with.

There is no evidence in people or in animals that joint support supplements does anything so I wouldn't pick a supplement on this basis.
I have evidence per personal and professional experience that joint health is enhanced in many cases. Double blind studies are not done much on treatments that don't make the drug industry rich.

In humans, the RDAs are set too low for optimum health.
Don't shoot the messenger Steve!!!!

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Re: Supplements

Post by Cajun Casey » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:27 am

Any experiences with CoQ10?
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Re: Supplements

Post by mcbosco » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:15 am

Beef heart has a ton of it. I really should feed more raw beef heart but the darn things come whole and are really creepy to cut up.

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Re: Supplements

Post by Cajun Casey » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:36 am

mcbosco wrote:Beef heart has a ton of it. I really should feed more raw beef heart but the darn things come whole and are really creepy to cut up.
Can you have them grind it at the meat counter?
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Re: Supplements

Post by mcbosco » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:56 am

No they come frozen in boxes but at least they are individually wrapped. I doubt anyone butcher would use the machines for these even though they are FDA inspected and stamped.

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Re: Supplements

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:06 pm

mcbosco wrote:Beef heart has a ton of it. I really should feed more raw beef heart but the darn things come whole and are really creepy to cut up.
What seems to be wrong with your dog? Are the symptons something that really shows?

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Re: Supplements

Post by Cajun Casey » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:11 pm

mcbosco wrote:No they come frozen in boxes but at least they are individually wrapped. I doubt anyone butcher would use the machines for these even though they are FDA inspected and stamped.
Can't be worse than sausage. Run a couple of slices of stale wheat bread through and wash the thing. Yankees. Geesh.
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Re: Supplements

Post by mcbosco » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:15 pm

Hahhahah, yeah we are tenderfoots up North!!!

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Re: Supplements

Post by big steve46 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:52 pm

mcbosco wrote:
big steve46 wrote:
mcbosco wrote:]

Don't shoot the messenger Steve!!!!
--------

No problem there. Of all the minds on here, you are at least in the top twenty! :lol: :lol:
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Re: Supplements

Post by big steve46 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:54 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:Any experiences with CoQ10?

I take it myself of course, but have never used it on dogs. Traditionanal and non-traditional thinking both tend to support it's use in humans.
big steve

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Re: Supplements

Post by PrairieGoat » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:26 pm

One of my pups had OCD and since then I've used the jerky strips with the joint supplement as their daily "go out in the garage as I go to work" treat. It's a pretty light dosage and may not do anything for the dogs but makes me feel better (and I don't even eat them!!!)....

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Re: Supplements

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:27 pm

I started giving them to my dog that had the hip and pelvis rebuilt. The specialist that worked on him said I could try it but there was no evidence they helped anything. He was against feeding any supplements on a regular basis and I have to agree with him after being involved in the feed testing that was done to insure that the feeds today have everything a dog needs in abundance.

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http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

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Re: Supplements

Post by Cajun Casey » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:54 pm

ezzy333 wrote:I started giving them to my dog that had the hip and pelvis rebuilt. The specialist that worked on him said I could try it but there was no evidence they helped anything. He was against feeding any supplements on a regular basis and I have to agree with him after being involved in the feed testing that was done to insure that the feeds today have everything a dog needs in abundance.

Ezzy
Is that why most of the recent recalls have been for nutritional deficiencies?

I'm interested in supplements for performance dogs, not more glorification of the dog food industry. I get that on a weekly basis from my sales reps.
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Re: Supplements

Post by PrairieGoat » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:08 pm

ezzy333 wrote:I started giving them to my dog that had the hip and pelvis rebuilt. The specialist that worked on him said I could try it but there was no evidence they helped anything. He was against feeding any supplements on a regular basis and I have to agree with him after being involved in the feed testing that was done to insure that the feeds today have everything a dog needs in abundance.

Ezzy
I certainly have no evidence that it is doing a darn thing for mine either, but as I said...gives me a little peace of mind and I haven't seen any evidence that it is bad for them either. I have to give them the treat anyway!!! :wink: I've also noted that a lot of dog foods indicate that they have glucosamine and chondrotin included, but haven't seen it on this stuff I've been feeding lately (Black Gold).

I suspect that dog supplements/vitamins are a lot like human supplements/vitamins.....a very controversial subject at best and no clear evidence to support either side. I say "clear evidence" because just about as often as I see a scientifc study one way, one comes out the other way!

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Re: Supplements

Post by GUNDOGS » Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:40 am

Have any of you used shark cartlidge? i buy it at our local pet value nutrition store..we began using it when i met my husband and he had a shorthair that had hip surgery and arthritis..we put him on it and he really showed an improvement and could get up alot easier in the mornings ect..in MY opinion from what I have read and learned i think alot of the nutrience and vitamins and best ingredients are lost in food processing..so i like the idea of fresh fruits, veggies, meat, eggs and supplements IF you can give it to your dog and they do well on it why not?......ruth
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Re: Supplements

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:30 am

GUNDOGS wrote:Have any of you used shark cartlidge? i buy it at our local pet value nutrition store..we began using it when i met my husband and he had a shorthair that had hip surgery and arthritis..we put him on it and he really showed an improvement and could get up alot easier in the mornings ect..in MY opinion from what I have read and learned i think alot of the nutrience and vitamins and best ingredients are lost in food processing..so i like the idea of fresh fruits, veggies, meat, eggs and supplements IF you can give it to your dog and they do well on it why not?......ruth
The main reason why not is all you are doing is unbalancing a ration that we spent a lot of time research and money on to get it right.

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Re: Supplements

Post by Cajun Casey » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:19 am

If they got it right, they would not keep changing it.
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Re: Supplements

Post by big steve46 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:05 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:If they got it right, they would not keep changing it.

Plus, there are times when you want to unbalance the formula of nutrition on purpose by using supplements as a therapeutic tool. The problem is most "experts" don't know how to do that so they simply decry the effort.
big steve

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Re: Supplements

Post by Cajun Casey » Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:10 pm

big steve46 wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:If they got it right, they would not keep changing it.

Plus, there are times when you want to unbalance the formula of nutrition on purpose by using supplements as a therapeutic tool. The problem is most "experts" don't know how to do that so they simply decry the effort.
Exactly. What I am confronting is young dogs that I know take three years to fully mature, but I'm putting them under exercise stress. I don't want that to come back on them around age eight or nine. My Casey's daddy was still running GSPCA AA stakes at eleven, so genetics will have a role there. Oakie is growing much faster and leaner than most dogs, so I really want his joints in good shape. We are doing fatty acids and I'm looking into CoQ10.
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Re: Supplements

Post by northUpland » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:19 pm

For what my opinion is worth, check out the Retrieve Health website http://www.retrievehealth.com/ as well as their Research Data http://retrievehealth.com/research/index.cfm page. It is interesting reading with a very long list of research references. The only Retrieve Health product I have used personally on multiple dogs with what seems to me to be positive, consistent performance improvement is their Tri-Nutrition bars. Anybody have any experience with their other products?

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Re: Supplements

Post by lvrgsp » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:11 pm

[quote="Cajun Casey

I'm interested in supplements for performance dogs, not more glorification of the dog food industry. I get that on a weekly basis from my sales reps.[/quote]

Again,
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Re: Supplements

Post by big steve46 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:13 pm

[quote="northUpland"]For what my opinion is worth, check out the Retrieve Health website http://www.retrievehealth.com/ as well as their Research Data http://retrievehealth.com/research/index.cfm page. It is interesting reading with a very long list of research references. The only Retrieve Health product I have used personally on multiple dogs with what seems to me to be positive, consistent performance improvement is their Tri-Nutrition bars. Anybody have any experience with their other products?[/quote


I looked at some of the info, and it's good. I'm sure I can get supplements at a lower cost including chewable ones.

Again, most working dogs do well on most good quality feeds, and don't need supplements unless there's a special need, because animal feed is more nutritional comparatively than human feed.
big steve

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Re: Supplements

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:31 pm

big steve46 wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:If they got it right, they would not keep changing it.

Plus, there are times when you want to unbalance the formula of nutrition on purpose by using supplements as a therapeutic tool. The problem is most "experts" don't know how to do that so they simply decry the effort.
Steve you are talking people not dogs.

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Re: Supplements

Post by mcbosco » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:41 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:Anyone use supplements for joint support, coat condition, anti-oxidant, or anything else?

What kind?
I think before you go the route of supplements you should look at what you are feeding. It is probably more cost effective to move up the ladder than use a lower grade food and doll it up with expensive supplements. If lower priced diets work just fine, well, then just count your blessings.

Makes sense??

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Re: Supplements

Post by big steve46 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:20 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
big steve46 wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:If they got it right, they would not keep changing it.

Plus, there are times when you want to unbalance the formula of nutrition on purpose by using supplements as a therapeutic tool. The problem is most "experts" don't know how to do that so they simply decry the effort.
Steve you are talking people not dogs.

Ezzy
True, but principles still apply. I have also stated that usually supplementation is not needed in dog feed due to more of the nutrients being left in the feed.

Still, I can see using supplements for therapeutic purposes when needed.
big steve

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Re: Supplements

Post by nitrex » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:27 pm

Cajun,

I use some of the "Elements" supplements and have had great results. I really like the fact that you can call them and talk with the owner/developer and he will not sell you something you don't need! They have several different supplements that can be used for your specific situation. They focus on dogs nutrition for hard working dogs (i.e. trial & sled dog) I would encourage you to give them a call.

www,elements4dogs.com
612-756-4578

Nitrex

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Re: Supplements

Post by INbeagles » Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:09 pm

I started in dogs on the bench side off the sport. Having dogs in bloom was a great key to my success. I had several breeds through the years, and I almost never had a dog in top condition without supplements. I also have tried every expensive food around trying to avoid supplements. I found that decent food with supplements was cheaper AND had better results than the pricey stuff. Natures Farmacy (naturesfarmacy.com) is a company that has a very full line of products and is very popular with show people because their products work and are affordable. I use their digestive enhance on every dog in the pack, and other products as needed. No that I have hunting Beagles, I am needing to find something to help combat the crud they pick up in the field.

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Re: Supplements

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:31 pm

I've had dogs in the show ring and in the field and have never had a problem or needed or used a supplement. I had a dog several years ago have a minor problem with her ears till i cleaned them and treated them and never had another problem. Feet have never been an issue and haven't run into whip worms either. Just can't be much help for you.

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Re: Supplements

Post by mcbosco » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:26 pm

You can do a lot with egg yolks thats for sure. Nupro & Impact are good too, Impact especially because of the 6 probiotic cultures.

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Re: Supplements

Post by punch » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:21 am

I use Glycanaid-HA – Advanced Joint Health Formula for my dogs. My vet prescribed it for maximum joint support and to help keep the joint cartilage and connective tissues healthy. Since Labrador Retrievers are prone to Hip Dysplasia, Master (my black Lab) takes it every single day. He's 9 years old now and his joints are healthy than ever....

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