Is puppy food actually necessary?

SubMariner · Post by **SubMariner** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:46 am

Is puppy food actually necessary, or is it just a marketing gimmick?

The lines are open, waiting for your calls...

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:01 am

I think puppy food for puppies is necessary because puppy food has more protein, fat, calcium and other ingredients to support brain developement, bone growth ect..if your question is, is puppy food necessary or should you use adult food i say dont use adult food until about 9 months which for most breeds is a good age to switch to adult food to not have as much fats ect and not cause too much growth and pressure on the bones of the pup..also some breeds should be on large breed puppy food to allow the dog to grow slower so hip and joint problems wont occur..when i get rescue dogs that are extremely thin i feed them some puppy food mixed with the adult food for a brief time to put some weight on them and take them off it as soon as they are not showing ribs anymore.....ruth

windswept · Post by **windswept** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:24 am

I also like to feed puppy food to the pups. The cost difference is really minimal in my case and my understanding is that the large breed puppy food for the first year can really have long term skeletal health benefits.
Actually puppy food tends to have LESS fat and protein to manage too rapid growth.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:37 am

windswept wrote:I also like to feed puppy food to the pups. The cost difference is really minimal in my case and my understanding is that the large breed puppy food for the first year can really have long term skeletal health benefits.
Actually puppy food tends to have LESS fat and protein to manage too rapid growth.

Puppy food is slightly different in some of the additives but by and large is the same as a premium feed as far as the major ingredients. I do not feed puppy food and would not recommend it other than for the first few days after weaning. The major problem that I see from it's continued use is that it is overfed and the puppies grow too fast and get too heavy. Our puppies have always eaten just what mother gets only we soften the feed a little for a week or so. After that they eat the dry food and do just fine. I like the fact that they have to chew the feed rather than everything else they aren't supposed to that helps strengthen their jaws. They tend to grow a little slower and not be as heavy. I just do not want a puppy fat to where they don't run as much and I want the least amount of weight possible on the legs and joints during the fast growing period.

I think you will find more and more people that don't feed it since the premium feeds are almost identical and much cheaper.

Ezzy

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:58 am

ezzy333 wrote:The major problem that I see from it's continued use is that it is overfed and the puppies grow too fast and get too heavy.
Ezzy

That's my understanding as well, especially in heavier breeds. There was a thread on here a while back of a vizsla that had turned pigeon-toed because of abnormal (too-rapid) growth. Seems like it was a closer monitoring of diet and adhesive wraps that straightened out his legs over time. (here's the thread: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=27279&p=248632&hil ... ed#p248632 )

Edit: the syndrome I was thinking about is called Developmental orthopedic disease. Here's a link with more info: http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/k ... g_over.htm

kninebirdog and Dogdr also both have alot of experiences with growth problems that are nutrition-related.

For me, other than weaning changover, unless a pup is malnourished for some reason, I feed premium adult food to pups.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:33 pm

windswept wrote:I also like to feed puppy food to the pups. The cost difference is really minimal in my case and my understanding is that the large breed puppy food for the first year can really have long term skeletal health benefits.
Actually puppy food tends to have LESS fat and protein to manage too rapid growth.

I editted my post at first thinking i had it backwards then i realized what i posted was what i meant..puppy food does have more fat and protein, i will definately look into it but i have never known puppy food to have less......ruth

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:34 pm

I have a springer that's 7 months old and weighs 45#. I see that some of the dog foods bags say for 50# plus dogs. Is it going to make any difference if I feed the 50# plus food to the dog. Right now I'm feeding Diamond adult high energy, but because of gas I'm looking at making a change, maybe to Iams because its sold locally.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:50 pm

I don't use puppy food, they get my other dogs premium feed, never had a problem with feeding a pup this way. I feed a 32/25 feed. Have also had pups
on Exceed 30/20 without any issues.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:08 pm

nikegundog wrote:I have a springer that's 7 months old and weighs 45#. I see that some of the dog foods bags say for 50# plus dogs. Is it going to make any difference if I feed the 50# plus food to the dog. Right now I'm feeding Diamond adult high energy, but because of gas I'm looking at making a change, maybe to Iams because its sold locally.

Cut the dog back a little on feed and the gas problem will disappear normally. Gas is almost always associated with feeding too much. It happens very often with the better feeds that are more concentrated than some others. I have no problem with the Diamond High Energy or any other food I have used in the past with any of my dogs once I got their quantities adjusted to what they need to stay in shape. And that varies according to activity level, temperature, as well as each dogs metabolism.

Ezzy

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:11 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
nikegundog wrote:I have a springer that's 7 months old and weighs 45#. I see that some of the dog foods bags say for 50# plus dogs. Is it going to make any difference if I feed the 50# plus food to the dog. Right now I'm feeding Diamond adult high energy, but because of gas I'm looking at making a change, maybe to Iams because its sold locally.
Cut the dog back a little on feed and the gas problem will disappear normally. Gas is almost always associated with feeding too much. It happens very often with the better feeds that are more concentrated than some others. I have no problem with the Diamond High Energy or any other food I have used in the past with any of my dogs once I got their quantities adjusted to what they need to stay in shape. And that varies according to activity level, temperature, as well as each dogs metabolism.

Ezzy

Yessir. Ask me how I know when my wife sneaks a little extra food to our dogs.

Red · Post by **Red** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:45 pm

I think you will find more and more people that don't feed it since the premium feeds are almost identical and much cheaper.

Ezzy, so for a large breed dog(GSP)how much protein do you recommend a puppy should have, and at what age do you give it more protein? Thanks
Red

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:05 pm

It is not necessary and is basically a gimmick to establish brand loyalty. Read the AFCO statement on the bag.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:37 pm

Red wrote:
I think you will find more and more people that don't feed it since the premium feeds are almost identical and much cheaper.
Ezzy, so for a large breed dog(GSP)how much protein do you recommend a puppy should have, and at what age do you give it more protein? Thanks
Red

GSP's are mid-sized dogs and more prone to being underweight than over, unlike a Lab. I would use a food with 25% - 30% protein and 15% -20% fat, one rated "all life stages"

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:41 pm

ALS foods rock.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:53 pm

I can't answer your question about how much protein a puppy needs as everyone is different.Since I feed a good adult food that has 24% or more protein in the feed I try to find out how much the pup will eat in a day or at a feeding and then back it off slightly so that the pup always cleans up their feed promptly and is still maybe slightly hungry. Since that amount varies with every pup the actual amount of protein varies proportionately. Then by watching the condition of the pup the feeding amount will be adjusted to maintain that condition.

I think maybe what you are asking though is what percent protein do I feed a puppy and as stated above I would prefer to stay in the range of 25% but it would make little difference if the percent was higher as it would just take a little less feed to provide the same amount to the pup. I try to always feed a dog a food with the right percentage of protein/fats to allow the dog to get what it needs out of a normal feeding of slightly less than it would eat free choice. then as it matures you will have to go to lower percentages or cut back the amount you offer it to eat.

The pup will need more protein during its growing years than any other time as the main function of protein is to build and repair muscle. Accordingly he pup will eat more during these growing years so it will get more protein as well as the other nutrients to support the greater needs. Once the growth has stopped then the activity level will be the biggest factor in how much the dog needs.Many of the high protein/fat feeds we have today are higher than the average dog needs which results in the problems we see discussed so often of a dog having gas and/or loose stools. To prevent these things from happening we should just feed a less potent feed so our dogs could eat enough to feel satisfied with out the inevitable problem but our human nature is to feed the highest percentage protein and fat feeds we can find since we think they are better. But the truth is they are only better for the few extremely active dogs and that means dogs that are running or working in some way practically everyday or two of there lives. For the rest of us that work our dogs an hour or so every two or three days we will have to restrict the amount we feed to avoid the problems of gas and loose stools. This works but it does many times leave the dog feeling quite hungry yet when the food is gone.

So the short answer is the young dog or pup needs more protein than it will later in life but you adjust how much they get by the amount of feed fed and not the percent of the feed printed on the bag. And the individual dog is the only one that can tell you how much it needs.

Ezzy

Red · Post by **Red** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:42 pm

I think maybe what you are asking though is what percent protein

Yes...

He's on 24% now, I saw one of his litter mates today and he looked pudgy and he's on 30%, I think my pup is right on track...
Thanks for the reply Ezzy

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:50 pm

Red wrote:
I think maybe what you are asking though is what percent protein
Yes...

He's on 24% now, I saw one of his litter mates today and he looked pudgy and he's on 30%, I think my pup is right on track...
Thanks for the reply Ezzy

Protein won't put weight on a dog, actually it is quite the contrary. Carbs will pudge up a puppy. You didn't say the age of the puppy but it is hard to tell whether a young puppy is too heavy, unless of course it is an extreme case. They are just shaped kinda round. You have a better chance of having an overweight puppy on 24%/15% type food than a 30%/20% because the amount of carbohydrate is substantially higher in the former.

Up until about 3-4 months I let mine eat until they are just showing signs of being full three times a day. You can't really meter what they eat during that growth period.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:54 pm

mcbosco wrote:
Red wrote:
I think maybe what you are asking though is what percent protein
Yes...

He's on 24% now, I saw one of his litter mates today and he looked pudgy and he's on 30%, I think my pup is right on track...
Thanks for the reply Ezzy
Protein won't put weight on a dog, actually it is quite the contrary. Carbs will pudge up a puppy. You didn't say the age of the puppy but it is hard to tell whether a young puppy is too heavy, unless of course it is an extreme case. They are just shaped kinda round. You have a better chance of having an overweight puppy on 24%/15% type food than a 30%/20% because the amount of carbohydrate is substantially higher in the former.

Up until about 3-4 months I let mine eat until they are just showing signs of being full three times a day. You can't really meter what they eat during that growth period.

I think you and i are the only ones who feed pups 3x a day mcbosco, i thought i was alone

...ruth

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:00 pm

Red wrote:
I think maybe what you are asking though is what percent protein
Yes...

He's on 24% now, I saw one of his litter mates today and he looked pudgy and he's on 30%, I think my pup is right on track...
Thanks for the reply Ezzy

Sounds like you are right on track. The other pup that looks pudgy is probably getting more of the higer percentage feed than he needs since he would still be quite hungry when he actually has everything he needs other than a full belly. It's harder sometimes to keep a pup trim if you feed too often and too much as like a teenage child they never think they are getting enough. The other advantage is with your feed you are probably slowing his growth a fraction which is what we should be aiming for. A good healthy pup that isn't allowed to grow too fast will have a better chance of having healthy legs and joints that will last his life time.

Ezzy

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:02 pm

And I let mine eat until they are full. I will never understand how anyone can restrict food to a puppy during that first 3-4 months. They will grow at the rate their genes and hormones say, so they better have the raw materials to grow correctly.

Ezzy, there is no truth that a pup's growth rate can be accelerated with food, but they can get too heavy from fat accumulation. Trying to influence growth is just plain silly.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:42 pm

Vets and food companies want people to believe it takes an advanced degree to be able to feed a dog. Seriously, what is equally if not more important than food is exercise.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:52 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:Vets and food companies want people to believe it takes an advanced degree to be able to feed a dog. Seriously, what is equally if not more important than food is exercise.

Yeppers, too much especially with a puppy. I saw a guy jogging recently with a 6 month old German Shepherd, I wanted to pop him.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:12 pm

I feed a quality Adult food and do not over feed my pups

I will at weaning add an Infant formula with DHA DRA and have done that for years ...funny thing is now pet companies are adding DHA DRA to puppy foods now. I will only add the infant formula till the pups 7th-8th week then stop as that is about the age when pups systems change where they do not tolerate lactic acids as well any more which comes from the milk.

to high protein and also a protein fat that is not balanced well can have effects on pups..Things like buckling over ta the knees from causing the growth plates to get out of kilter..easy to get back in line by cutting back going to a quality food that is better balanced. and Fat pups this to can put to much stress on the pups growing bones and joints.

Do a search here for the bow legged vizsla pup the person was feeding cheap puppy chow then added ground meat which his pup began this knuckling over he changed the diet and with in a couple days the legs started to correct back to normal. PS and last Pm's I have had this the owner of the pup his pup is and has been doing great and no more issues

3Britts · Post by **3Britts** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:15 pm

Stick with a good adult dog food and you will be fine.
I've done both and like the slower growth rate with the adult feed compared to the puppy feed.

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:39 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:It is not necessary and is basically a gimmick to establish brand loyalty. Read the AFCO statement on the bag.

You nailed it!

windswept · Post by **windswept** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:39 pm

windswept wrote:I also like to feed puppy food to the pups. The cost difference is really minimal in my case and my understanding is that the large breed puppy food for the first year can really have long term skeletal health benefits.
Actually puppy food tends to have LESS fat and protein to manage too rapid growth.

I should probably clarify my statement about puppy food having less fat and protein. When comparing lg breed puppy food to adult performance feed you will usually find that puppy food has LESS fat and protein than adult. I realize this may not be true in all cases but in most of the foods I am familiar with it is.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:57 pm

big steve46 wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:It is not necessary and is basically a gimmick to establish brand loyalty. Read the AFCO statement on the bag.

You nailed it!

I guess that is as good of an excuse as any .

Ezzy

Onk · Post by **Onk** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:30 am

I have never fed puppy food to any dog I have owned until this Brit I just got a few weeks ago. Trying a new food and their feeding plan. So far all is looking great. Coat, growth, energy and stool are all great!

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:46 am

I havent looked into the All life stages dog food but i have seen alot of people that like it..what im wondering is how can this food have the proper amount of nutrients, fats, proteins, carbs ect for a 8 week old and 8 year old?.do any of you recommend the ALS food and have you used it on pups?..since i often have rescue dogs it would be great if it really is good for all ages and breeds cause i sometimes have 8 week olds and 12 year olds so 1 bag for them would be ideal...thanks...ruth

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:34 pm

GUNDOGS wrote:I havent looked into the All life stages dog food but i have seen alot of people that like it..what im wondering is how can this food have the proper amount of nutrients, fats, proteins, carbs ect for a 8 week old and 8 year old?.do any of you recommend the ALS food and have you used it on pups?..since i often have rescue dogs it would be great if it really is good for all ages and breeds cause i sometimes have 8 week olds and 12 year olds so 1 bag for them would be ideal...thanks...ruth

Ruth, one feed will work as long as you adjust the amount to what each dog needs. Very much like the menu you fix for yourself and the five girls. Bet you all eat the same thing or at least you fix the same thing for the whole family. In the wild dog and all other predators eat the same thing their pups do and the same is pretty much true with the prey type animals. Mothers teach the young what to eat and then they all eat it.

Somehow, dog people and horse people got on this food kick and they have come up with all kinds of things you need to feed and also all kinds of ailments that their dogs and horses have. And these unsubstantiated facts have run rampant for so long we now have people thinking everyone of them is true. And it just isn't the way it is. Different life stages do need slightly different balance of elements in their feed but our feeds today have so much more than is really needed it will cover your dog over its whole life cycle.

Try it and see. Remember not to pay much attention to all the things you hear or read and learn to read your dog. If it is doing well then you have a good feed. It mat take guts on your part to try it since much of the good feeding practices are going to fly directly in the face of much that you have been told. But do it and if it doesn't work there is always plenty of time to change. Bad things do not happen over night and the good things to correct them does not either. Nutritional mistakes are a long time in showing up so when you see some minor change most often it will because of something you are doing and not the feed.

Ezzy

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:53 pm

Thanks ezzy, im going to go see about it..what do you think about the ALS for our shorthair pup?.. she is on proplan large breed puppy and our plan is to switch her to performance at 9 months (advice from vet)..would the ALS food be good for her too or just for the lower energy dogs i rescue?...thanks....ruth

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:07 pm

GUNDOGS wrote:Thanks ezzy, im going to go see about it..what do you think about the ALS for our shorthair pup?.. she is on proplan large breed puppy and our plan is to switch her to performance at 9 months (advice from vet)..would the ALS food be good for her too or just for the lower energy dogs i rescue?...thanks....ruth

Finish the bag you have and switch her. I would do it now but no need to waste the feed and since it is large breed puppy you should be OK. Just don't feed her too much. Puppies like people are probably more healthy is they are on the slim side instead of th round pretty puppy we all see in the pictures that some feed company is putting out. Once she is beyond the teenage stage she will get heavier and you want to start from thr slim side and not already chuncky. I have fed a single feed to all of our dogs over the years a single food and have never experienced a problem and have never had a puppy show bad hips or bad joints. Just watch each dog, I can emphaize that enough as no two will be exactly alike and like everything else do things slowly such as change amounts of feed. Over time it takes very little to make a difference. I think you will be happy and I know your check book will.

Ezzy

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:32 pm

GUNDOGS wrote:Thanks ezzy, im going to go see about it..what do you think about the ALS for our shorthair pup?.. she is on proplan large breed puppy and our plan is to switch her to performance at 9 months (advice from vet)..would the ALS food be good for her too or just for the lower energy dogs i rescue?...thanks....ruth

An ALS feed actually is available from most good brands to be honest. A good ALS feed can provide as much energy as you need by adjusting the volume as Ezzy correctly says. A performance feed of 30-20 or more is only needed for a working dog that is worked hard IMO.

Loyall has a couple of feeds that I would call ALS, namely the Active Adult and the Performance. Diamond has the Premium. Several other brands have similar balanced ingredient products. Remember, it helps to trust the company to have high quality, highly assimilative ingredients. What is says on the bag does not tell the whole story of formulation. Just cause a product is marketed as ALS doesn't mean many other products aren't ALS also.

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:03 pm

If you have been in the dog biz as long as I have .... Eukanuba was just 1 formula 30/20 and was considered an All Life Stage food by the Iams company in the 70's. It was not called Peformance feed. You just adjusted the amount of food per day to meet the needs of each dog breed and size. The Iams reps told me that Eukanuba was a food you could feed from birth to death and never change. It was the #1 small breed food in the day and the little dogs thrived on this food.
Not until years later did they come out with Lamb/rice, then puppy. then everything else came along in tme.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:02 pm

MikeB wrote:If you have been in the dog biz as long as I have .... Eukanuba was just 1 formula 30/20 and was considered an All Life Stage food by the Iams company in the 70's. It was not called Peformance feed. You just adjusted the amount of food per day to meet the needs of each dog breed and size. The Iams reps told me that Eukanuba was a food you could feed from birth to death and never change. It was the #1 small breed food in the day and the little dogs thrived on this food.
Not until years later did they come out with Lamb/rice, then puppy. then everything else came along in tme.

They had to do it because everyone else was and advertising how much better they were. The change like most are not for the dog but for the owners. So now everyone has ten formulas that are all about alike. Just like I have been saying about different brands, there is so little difference that they all do a good job of feeding the dog but the owners are the ones that think one is better than the rest but as you have noted no two owners agree on which is best. And it is easy to understand why when they are all alike.

Ezzy

PS. For all of you that want to take offense at that I know there are small differences and there are a couple different grades but every one of them are used by thousands of satisfied customers and eaten by ten thousand satisfied dogs.

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:21 pm

YEP your exactly right.

Back in the day when Eukanuba came out with a puppy food it was 31/21 and the same ingredients in exact order as the original 30/20. So I called the Euk Rep and I said "So what is the big difference" and they said "Other than size of the kibble which was smaller for puppies, NOTHING was different just a little higher protein/fat." It was made mainly for tiny and small breed pups.

Today I use Euk Sensitive Stomach for my little Boston Terrier. It's the best I have found for her sensitive digestive system and NO GAS.

3Britts · Post by **3Britts** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:11 am

I have found that a feed that is higher in fat is easier to fry for dinner where a water must be added to one that is lower in fat.

Other than that, I agree, use an als feed.

markj · Post by **markj** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:45 am

I also do not feed puppy food, I use PMI nutrition never had any problems. I also fill the bucket so there is always food, they eat what they need and dont hog it all down. I can fill 2 buckets and 2 5 gallon water pails and go away for 3 or 4 days they will be OK. My neighbors kid lets them out of the kennel and puts them back in after a few hours. Been doing it this way since I was a babe, Dad and Grandpa did it thisway.

A fellow i sold a pup too dont feed any dog food at all. He is from Poland, he says no purina in Poland, he uses meat boiled and rice added. That dogs coat is the best Iever saw, dog is healthy and hunts hard all day long.

See the comercials are geared to make you think they know what the heck they are talking about and make you feel the need to go out and buy it now. Advertising is that way, propagana fed to our brains

At Pheasant Fest my son was given samples of every kind of dog food on earth, they want the PMI. So I get that for them.

treedaddy · Post by **treedaddy** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:15 am

I feed my pups Diamond puppy. 30% protein and 20% fat. I have a 9 month old pointer and 2 setter pups 3 months old. Also, about 4 days a week, I mix a can of tuna with their feed. Local Kroger store has tuna 50 cents a can. I use about 8 cans a week. I believe they get a little more protein and some oil, vitamins and minerals.

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:34 am

treedaddy wrote:I feed my pups Diamond puppy. 30% protein and 20% fat. I have a 9 month old pointer and 2 setter pups 3 months old. Also, about 4 days a week, I mix a can of tuna with their feed. Local Kroger store has tuna 50 cents a can. I use about 8 cans a week. I believe they get a little more protein and some oil, vitamins and minerals.

8 cans a week times .50 each equals $4 a week or 208 Dollars a year. Thats as much as it costs to feed a lot of dogs for a year.
Ezzy

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:15 am

Ezzy mentioned and I paraphrase a growing trend among dog and horse owners to sensationalize feeding and health issues. I think it is a microcosm of pop culture, Dogs like humans were meant by nature to work for the calories they consume, the energy expended and the calories balancing themselves out. For the most part they were satisfied with feeding on a kill once per day. We now have confined them to our living area, reduce their exercise to what fits our various schedules and focus on feeding them. The best conditioned and performing dogs in the field dog world are fed once per day, a quality food and speaking with something of a broad brush here...a 30/20 blend. Some feed puppy food for a year, some feed it not at all and there doesn't seem to be much to suggest it makes a whit of difference.

I think it comes down to people who shape not only a dog's lifestyle to theirs, but they mirror what brings comfort and joy. Overfed, coddled, under exercised dogs like people are the ones that are largely in the unhealthy group.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:47 am

Ok so i looked into the Proplan All life stages dog food and its 26/16..the price is 60 bucks for a 18k bag which is almost 40 pounds i believe..i am only an hour from a petsmart in the u.s so i think next time i go over i will see how much it is there....thanks....ruth

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:04 pm

GUNDOGS wrote:Ok so i looked into the Proplan All life stages dog food and its 26/16..the price is 60 bucks for a 18k bag which is almost 40 pounds i believe..i am only an hour from a petsmart in the u.s so i think next time i go over i will see how much it is there....thanks....ruth

Ruth, look at Blue Seal Pork & Barley. Very good value, reliable, longstanding company.

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:22 pm

FYI - For all of us living in the USA.... Canadian prices are much higher than USA prices.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:49 am

MikeB wrote:FYI - For all of us living in the USA.... Canadian prices are much higher than USA prices.

is 60 bucks expensive compared to in the states?..what do you pay?..thanks....ruth

nanney1 · Post by **nanney1** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:39 am

I've had a limited number of dogs so it's easy to remember what they were fed as puppies. All were companion dogs not in any type of performance training, hunting, or competition. A couple were shown in conformation.

1. Bernese Puppy - raised on Iams minichunx adult. 26% protein.
2. Australian Shepherd mix - raised on Diamond Premium adult 26% protein.
3. Bernese adolescent - given to us at 18 months with an almost full bag of Purina Large Breed Puppy Chow that he had been on since 8 weeks old.
4. Bernese Puppy - raised on Pro Plan Puppy 28% protein. Switched to Pro Plan Chicken and Rice adult 26% around 10 months old.
5. American Bulldog Puppy - raised on Pro Plan Chicken and Rice adult.

As expected, the Bernese all grew to be big dogs, the Australian Shepherd a medium dog, and the American Bulldog is on track to surpass them all as far as weight.

I don't know that any of it made any difference in anything. For the large breed dogs, the calcium and phosphorus levels can be an issue, but most kibbles that I've seen, both puppy and adult formulas, and not just the large breed formulas are in the appropriate range. I have known people who consistently fed a 21% protein 10% fat type of food such as Purina Dog Chow or Ol' Roy for their adults, puppies and the pregnant and lactating bitches and their dogs did fine and the puppies grew.

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:01 am

I don't know that any of it made any difference in anything. For the large breed dogs, the calcium and phosphorus levels can be an issue, but most kibbles that I've seen, both puppy and adult formulas, and not just the large breed formulas are in the appropriate range. I have known people who consistently fed a 21% protein 10% fat type of food such as Purina Dog Chow or Ol' Roy for their adults, puppies and the pregnant and lactating bitches and their dogs did fine and the puppies grew.

Purina Dog Chow and Ol' Roy are probably a little better dog food than what was on the market when dog food first came out. We bred,raised, hunted, showed several to their championship, and played a little at trialing with the dogs and puppies fed those type of feeds. The only difference I see today is there are a lot more, percieved at least, problems today than back then. I am sure todays feeds are better but I do think we have over done it on a lot of the feeds and due to the fact they are often overfed we create a lot of problems such as sensative stomach, loose stools, and over conditioned. Consequently the less experienced thinks there is a problem and starts changing feeds, adding supplements, or some other cure when the problem is just simply over feeding a feed that is formulated to be right on the edge of sensibility.

Ezzy

3Britts · Post by **3Britts** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:31 am

GUNDOGS wrote:
MikeB wrote:FYI - For all of us living in the USA.... Canadian prices are much higher than USA prices.

is 60 bucks expensive compared to in the states?..what do you pay?..thanks....ruth

I would say yes.
I pay $25 for 40 lbs of Kirtland brand from CostCo. Dogs do great and look good.

A/C Guy · Post by **A/C Guy** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:46 pm

GUNDOGS wrote:Ok so i looked into the Proplan All life stages dog food and its 26/16..the price is 60 bucks for a 18k bag which is almost 40 pounds i believe..i am only an hour from a petsmart in the u.s so i think next time i go over i will see how much it is there....thanks....ruth

We have been feeding Black Gold to our dogs. The 31/21 Ultimate Performance has everything a puppy needs. It only costs $35 for a 40 lb bag. All natural with no preservatives and every dog that I have given it to have loved it. Friends with finicky eaters are amazed when their dogs dig right into the food. Next time you are in the US, call a couple feed stores. You won't find this at a big box store.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:38 am

A/C Guy wrote:
GUNDOGS wrote:Ok so i looked into the Proplan All life stages dog food and its 26/16..the price is 60 bucks for a 18k bag which is almost 40 pounds i believe..i am only an hour from a petsmart in the u.s so i think next time i go over i will see how much it is there....thanks....ruth
We have been feeding Black Gold to our dogs. The 31/21 Ultimate Performance has everything a puppy needs. It only costs $35 for a 40 lb bag. All natural with no preservatives and every dog that I have given it to have loved it. Friends with finicky eaters are amazed when their dogs dig right into the food. Next time you are in the US, call a couple feed stores. You won't find this at a big box store.

Will do, thanks.....ruth