allergic reaction to vaccination

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JoeFriday
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allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by JoeFriday » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:56 pm

I took my 15 week old pup to the vet today to get her second round of vaccinations. She was a trooper the first time and didn't even flinch for three shots that day, with no problems after, so I figured this would be a breeze.

They did the second round of vaccs and added in the rabies vaccination and it seemed to go well again. But within two hours she was throwing up and her face was starting to swell. She was also itching like crazy so she was biting herself all over. So I rushed her back to the vet where she got another three shots to counteract the reaction (all on my dime, of course). It seems to be subsiding and she is finally asleep at my feet now, after running around and whimpering for the last half hour. I felt so bad for her all afternoon.

Since the only change from the last time was the rabies vaccination (and thankfully that won't need a follow-up for a year), it would make sense that was what caused the reaction. I'm wondering if anyone else has seen this. And did you manage it yourself by administering benadryl or did you go to a vet?

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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:07 pm

I have never had one show any serious signs of a problem that a benedryl wouldn't take care of. Think like yours I have seen a couple have some swelling and itching but it was pretty much gone in a couple of hours.

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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by JoeFriday » Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:19 pm

she was going crazy for a while but is settling back to normal now. That's a lesson learned for me. Keep benadryl on hand (and know how much to give) rather than paying $100 for a second vet visit in one day.

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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by sully511 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:55 pm

Most reactions do not occur with the first set of vaccines a puppy gets (but not always). It's an allergic reaction and there is no way to know which puppy will have one and which one won't. Do make sure the vet called the vaccine company and reported the reaction. The vaccine company should always receive a report of a reaction like that because they keep track and if a certain lot number is having more issues, they can pull it and so forth. They often times react to the lepto vaccine. Did she get that as well? I would suspect that before the rabies vaccine. Make sure for her next set of vaccines you start giving her Benedryl (1mg/lb.) before you take her into the vet, like the night before her appointment.

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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by mcbosco » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:47 am

Are you sure rabies was given at 15 weeks? That is odd. Also was lepto given?

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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by dog dr » Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:30 am

she could have reacted to anything she recieved, not necessarily the rabies. allergic reactions usually present with the 2nd exposure to an antigen. like previous posters said, load her up on some benadryl beforehand next time.

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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by CherrystoneWeims » Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:46 pm

dog dr wrote:she could have reacted to anything she recieved, not necessarily the rabies. allergic reactions usually present with the 2nd exposure to an antigen. like previous posters said, load her up on some benadryl beforehand next time.
I know that you are a vet but I have to disagree. I wouldn't vaccinate this dog again.
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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by mcbosco » Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:39 pm

CherrystoneWeims wrote:
dog dr wrote:she could have reacted to anything she recieved, not necessarily the rabies. allergic reactions usually present with the 2nd exposure to an antigen. like previous posters said, load her up on some benadryl beforehand next time.
I know that you are a vet but I have to disagree. I wouldn't vaccinate this dog again.
I have to second this. I was a little surprised by the good Dr.'s response. The reaction is not something I would want to repeat. I also question why this dog was getting rabies at this age and at the same time as another vaccine.

I would test for immunity at Age 1 and then decide what to do. The OP might want to email Dr. Dodd's and see what she thinks.

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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by JoeFriday » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:01 pm

Her symptoms eased off last night, as ezzy said they would. She was occasionally itching today and still couldn't keep her food dog this morning, so I fed her some yogurt laced with benadryl and she's been fine since. Back to her usual self and eating with no problems.

My papers show she was given Rabies, DHLPP, Corona and Bordetella yesterday. According to the vet, she is supposed to get one more vacc and then she's done. Unfortunately I forget which one.

They also said dogs were fine for rabies vacc after 14 weeks. This same vet was urging me to get her spayed soon, saying it was important to do before her first heat. I plan to wait until she is at least a year old for that, so I already disagree with him on one issue. He also stresses the importance of Lyme vaccines, with I think is pointless, but I realize there is a wide range of opinions on that.

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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by mcbosco » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:28 pm

JoeFriday wrote:Her symptoms eased off last night, as ezzy said they would. She was occasionally itching today and still couldn't keep her food dog this morning, so I fed her some yogurt laced with benadryl and she's been fine since. Back to her usual self and eating with no problems.

My papers show she was given Rabies, DHLPP, Corona and Bordetella yesterday. According to the vet, she is supposed to get one more vacc and then she's done. Unfortunately I forget which one.

They also said dogs were fine for rabies vacc after 14 weeks. This same vet was urging me to get her spayed soon, saying it was important to do before her first heat. I plan to wait until she is at least a year old for that, so I already disagree with him on one issue. He also stresses the importance of Lyme vaccines, with I think is pointless, but I realize there is a wide range of opinions on that.

Are you serious????? Never go back to that Vet. First, Corona only effects very young pups not 15 week olds, no vaccine is needed. Bordetella is given right before boarding a dog. It doesn't last for more than a few months. This wasn't required either.

I hope she feels better.

All this stuff on one day is malpractice, even if they were required.

The vet should have never given Lepto to a pup that age unless there was a well defined risk of exposure. Rabies should not be given at 15 weeks, not till 6 months if its ok by law.

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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by GUNDOGS » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:59 pm

As for my vet he gives DHLPP, rabies (always at 4 months) and bordetella all at once too Joefriday..so dont get nervous..i vaccinate for bordetella not only before boarding but yearly because of going to the dog park, obedience classes ect and i rescue dogs so i get kennel cough dogs coming here from the humane society, each dog requires different vaccines there are definitely variables..i also vaccinate for lyme but i have never vaccinated for corona..our GSP pup had a reaction to a vaccine with a lump at the sight that went away after about a week and we will still be vaccinating her so just talk to your vet about any concerns and if you feel uncomfortable or unheard just seek another vet...jmo....ruth :D
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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by PrairieGoat » Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:18 pm

mcbosco wrote:Bordetella is given right before boarding a dog. It doesn't last for more than a few months. This wasn't required either.
There are two types of bordetella vaccine....one injectible (labeled for 1 year) and one nasal (labeled for 6 months). Dogs can get bordetella anytime they contact other dogs that have it, not just at the boarding kennel. Those of us that have 1) have had a dog that got bordetella and 2) come in contact with other dogs of unknown vaccination regimens are probably a bit less lax about it.

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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by mcbosco » Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:58 am


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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by GUNDOGS » Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:45 am

Mcbosco, thanks for the read BUT i can spend all day online looking at different reports of how dangerous/useless or even beneficial vaccines may be but you need to understand that each dog is an individual and there are many variables to vaccine schedules and different dogs need different kinds of protection for different reasons..you or any article discouraging the use and need for vaccines is not going to change the results people are seeing in their own dogs by vaccinating..if i didnt give my dogs bordetella vaccines i would constantly have kennel cough here, its a fact no matter what articles you can find to say other wise..and of course vets want it for liability because if i board my dog there and it gets kennel cough because of someone who didnt vaccinate and their dog has it then why should i have to pay to treat for it? when i take my dog to the dog park i am willingly taking them knowing some people dont vaccinate so there are chances it will be spread by those dogs, thats why theres a sign up that warns owners to vaccinate and prevent the spread of diseases and enter at your own risk but the vets take the responsibility of having stipulations to prevent this as much as possible by mandating that bordetella be given prior because in the building they have animals recovering from surgery or with immune issues as well as boarders..i have to say that some people who just dont bother properly vaccinating are not going to see their dogs get alot of these diseases because of those of us who vaccinate and prevent them from spreading to start with :wink: .....ruth
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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by PrairieGoat » Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:27 am

Article seems rather low on scientific data and high on talking points. Certainly not something I would base a vaccination regimine on...and I would want to see some clinical data before I even believed it credible enough to bring it up in consultation with my vet.

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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by mcbosco » Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:02 pm

PrairieGoat wrote:
Article seems rather low on scientific data and high on talking points. Certainly not something I would base a vaccination regimine on...and I would want to see some clinical data before I even believed it credible enough to bring it up in consultation with my vet.
From Colorado State Vet School:

"Bordetella bronchiseptica. Bordetella bronchiseptica vaccines are considered optional since
the agent rarely causes life-threatening disease in otherwise healthy animals, is not the only
cause of kennel cough syndrome, is easily treatable, and is minimally zoonotic. Additionally,
there is genetic information that suggests that field strains of the bacterium vary considerably
from vaccine strains. Thus, it is unknown which field strains are protected against by currently
available vaccines."


My vet tells me the same. I did it once because I had to and wont again.

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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by JoeFriday » Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:15 pm

I have to say that I'm at a big disadvantage when it comes to medical discussions. My brain seems to be hardwired not to understand that stuff, whether it be for humans or animals. I do recall having a conversation with the vet before the first set of shots where he asked if I plan to take my dog to dog parks or places where there will be other dogs. The answer is yes, I plan to frequent dog parks and potentially send Kimber off to a trainer in a few months. So it seemed to be good to get her set for all vaccinations that would be necessary at that time.

But before I took her to that vet, I called two others in the area and they all rattled off the same vaccinations, administered at the same intervals. This vet was no different than any of the others. I have another appointment with him in three weeks (that was set up before her reaction kicked in) to have a third distemper shot administered. Is that necessary?

And she's perfectly fine today, and thanks everyone for their concern.

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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by Cajun Casey » Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:25 pm

Yes, you should complete her basic shots. Get a DA2P for her last shot if you want the least chance of reaction. Her reaction may have been to the actual liquid portion of the rabies vax. The brand and lot number is on your certificate. Contact the manufacturer and let them know what happened.

Good to know she is doing better.
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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by GUNDOGS » Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:34 am

Yes it is necessary to complete the 3rd set of vaccines especially because of the things you plan on doing with your dog, also what i do is write down any questions or concerns i have and that way when you get to the vet you can get the answers you need otherwise its easy to forget when you are there..i always go by what my vet recommends for MY dogs in my area based on our travels and exposures my dogs will face..your dog may not need either as many OR may need more vaccines than my dogs so vaccines should not be generalized, for example, i know guys that vaccinate for rattlesnake every 6 months but i never have had to..and i agree what cajun said, i have also contacted the manufacturer to let them know of the reaction so they can document it, let the vet know as well......ruth :D
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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by dr tim » Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:46 am

I would have to say I have never seen a rabies reaction such as this in 22 years, so I would rule that out. Anytime after 12 weeks of age is ok to give the rabies in my book, but I routinely give it at about 16 weeks to coincide with the last DHLPV vaccine. Why wait on rabies vaccination till 6 months of age if it can go earlier only to have a dog find a bat, raccoon or bite a kid and have all that repurcussion bs are my main thoughts. It is a killed vaccine so typically will ellicit only a local reaction if anything at all.

I would look to see if this dog had the lepto portion of the vaccine all along as that is the typical portion of the vaccine that can set up an allergic reaction that occurs following the next round of puppy vaccines. It is typical to just give that portion of the entire vaccine(the lepto) on the final visit to the doc. The other portions of the vaccines can cause a reaction but are less likely than the lepto part. The other main cause of an allergic reaction is the adjuvant in the vaccine, typically aluminum. It could be that simple, but who knows? I would research that brand and see if there might be a higher incidence of reactions. If so, I bet adjuvant.

As to future vaccines, that is a decision that you have to make with your vet. Risk analysis on a case by case deal. I would be hesitant, to say the least, as the next reaction that possibly could occur tends to be much more dramatic.

My money is on eliminating the lepto and changing manufacturers if you really need to keep vaccinating the dog. Also, pre load the dog with antihistimines prior to the next vaccine and keep him at the hospital for the day to observe him.

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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by dog dr » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:32 am

CherrystoneWeims wrote:
dog dr wrote:she could have reacted to anything she recieved, not necessarily the rabies. allergic reactions usually present with the 2nd exposure to an antigen. like previous posters said, load her up on some benadryl beforehand next time.
I know that you are a vet but I have to disagree. I wouldn't vaccinate this dog again.

Hey, just because I'm a vet doesnt mean i have all the right answers. I learn a little more everyday (hopefully). Thats why they call it practice! :wink:

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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by CherrystoneWeims » Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:49 pm

GUNDOGS wrote:Yes it is necessary to complete the 3rd set of vaccines especially because of the things you plan on doing with your dog, also what i do is write down any questions or concerns i have and that way when you get to the vet you can get the answers you need otherwise its easy to forget when you are there..i always go by what my vet recommends for MY dogs in my area based on our travels and exposures my dogs will face..your dog may not need either as many OR may need more vaccines than my dogs so vaccines should not be generalized, for example, i know guys that vaccinate for rattlesnake every 6 months but i never have had to..and i agree what cajun said, i have also contacted the manufacturer to let them know of the reaction so they can document it, let the vet know as well......ruth :D
Ruth it is not necessary to give the third round of vaccines. This pup can be titered. I have been giving two sets of vaccines and titering after that. If the dog has a low titer on any of the core vaccines then I just give that one seperately. I give my own vaccines (except rabies since it is state law that a vet gives it).
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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by CherrystoneWeims » Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:08 pm

dr tim wrote:I would have to say I have never seen a rabies reaction such as this in 22 years, so I would rule that out. Anytime after 12 weeks of age is ok to give the rabies in my book, but I routinely give it at about 16 weeks to coincide with the last DHLPV vaccine. Why wait on rabies vaccination till 6 months of age if it can go earlier only to have a dog find a bat, raccoon or bite a kid and have all that repurcussion bs are my main thoughts. It is a killed vaccine so typically will ellicit only a local reaction if anything at all.

I would look to see if this dog had the lepto portion of the vaccine all along as that is the typical portion of the vaccine that can set up an allergic reaction that occurs following the next round of puppy vaccines. It is typical to just give that portion of the entire vaccine(the lepto) on the final visit to the doc. The other portions of the vaccines can cause a reaction but are less likely than the lepto part. The other main cause of an allergic reaction is the adjuvant in the vaccine, typically aluminum. It could be that simple, but who knows? I would research that brand and see if there might be a higher incidence of reactions. If so, I bet adjuvant.

As to future vaccines, that is a decision that you have to make with your vet. Risk analysis on a case by case deal. I would be hesitant, to say the least, as the next reaction that possibly could occur tends to be much more dramatic.

My money is on eliminating the lepto and changing manufacturers if you really need to keep vaccinating the dog. Also, pre load the dog with antihistimines prior to the next vaccine and keep him at the hospital for the day to observe him.
As per Dr. Schultz and Dodds my parent club is recommending giving the rabies separately from other vaccines. I have had several friends whose dogs have had severe reactions to the rabies vaccine.
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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by GUNDOGS » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:40 am

CherrystoneWeims wrote:
GUNDOGS wrote:Yes it is necessary to complete the 3rd set of vaccines especially because of the things you plan on doing with your dog, also what i do is write down any questions or concerns i have and that way when you get to the vet you can get the answers you need otherwise its easy to forget when you are there..i always go by what my vet recommends for MY dogs in my area based on our travels and exposures my dogs will face..your dog may not need either as many OR may need more vaccines than my dogs so vaccines should not be generalized, for example, i know guys that vaccinate for rattlesnake every 6 months but i never have had to..and i agree what cajun said, i have also contacted the manufacturer to let them know of the reaction so they can document it, let the vet know as well......ruth :D
Ruth it is not necessary to give the third round of vaccines. This pup can be titered. I have been giving two sets of vaccines and titering after that. If the dog has a low titer on any of the core vaccines then I just give that one seperately. I give my own vaccines (except rabies since it is state law that a vet gives it).
I just had mine titered too after 3 sets of vaccines and he needs to have the distemper booster according to the results so i agree with you in the sense that with titer testing you are much more advised on what vaccine is needed but the basic 1st year shots should be given.. but because he is sending his dog to a trainer it is a bit different and i know when we sent our dog to a trainer (8 years ago) our dog having vaccines was not an issue he took lightly, there were very strict rules regarding vaccines since there were 20 dogs there, some places wont accept titer tests they want the regular vaccine regimant and written health certificate not everyone is on the titer bandwagon as of yet.. not around here cause we dont even have a cheaper "yearly" titer test i just paid almost 400 bucks for my dog to have one and it will be 400 bucks next year too.....ruth :D
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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by dr tim » Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:10 am

I guess I have been lucky with the rabies vaccine non reactions over the years. No problem with seperating the vaccines out, just one more trip to the vet.

How do you pick which vaccine to purchase on your own and administer?

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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by dog dr » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:42 am

dr tim wrote:I guess I have been lucky with the rabies vaccine non reactions over the years. No problem with seperating the vaccines out, just one more trip to the vet.

How do you pick which vaccine to purchase on your own and administer?

I agree, i have seen VERY few reactions to rabies vaccines. I have seen VERY few vaccine reactions, period.

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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:25 am

dog dr wrote:
dr tim wrote:I guess I have been lucky with the rabies vaccine non reactions over the years. No problem with seperating the vaccines out, just one more trip to the vet.

How do you pick which vaccine to purchase on your own and administer?

I agree, i have seen VERY few reactions to rabies vaccines. I have seen VERY few vaccine reactions, period.
Exactly my experience over the years also. Minor discomfort is about all.

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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by CherrystoneWeims » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:02 pm

dr tim wrote:I guess I have been lucky with the rabies vaccine non reactions over the years. No problem with seperating the vaccines out, just one more trip to the vet.

How do you pick which vaccine to purchase on your own and administer?
I'm lucky in several ways!

I have a fellow Weim breeder friend who is a vet at NC State so I get info from her.

My parent club has had Ronald Schultz give seminars at our National Specialty. We also have a Weim breeder who is doing research at UC Davis on HOD. She is giving a talk at this year's National.

My vet is very willing to work with me. She started practicing holistic veterinary medicine several years ago after having a serious reaction to a Rabies vaccine. It compromised her immune system and she still has issues. I also know several local vets who are participating in a study for immunity to rabies in humans.

I also take an approach to vaccines as we would with humans. (No I do NOT humanize my dogs!!) We don't give yearly vaccines to ourselves and we don't give a huge amount at a time either.

My husband is a Hematopathologist and we are always amazed at how far behind veterinary medicine is compared to human medicine. Yet so much experimentation is done on dogs for human research! No I'm not trying to insult veterinarians!
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Re: allergic reaction to vaccination

Post by dr tim » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:11 am

What, a vet behind a physician? I thought that was only at a stick up.

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