Last One I Promise

Born2Hunt · Post by **Born2Hunt** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:01 pm

Ok i know everyone is tired of food threads, I have to change food and was going to go with the sportmix black 24/20 29.99 for 50# bag then stopped in a feed store and found Diamond high energy 24/20 29.99 for 50#. So my question is which feed is better and why.. need to buy food tomorrow so please help. thx

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:28 pm

The two we talked about through PM, you will not be sorry with both im sure. If you ask ken, he would probably say the same either diamond or sportmix LOL.

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:16 pm

Either is good. I feed the Diamond HE and the dogs do well on it but I have fed Sportsmix and it is a good feed also. Remember the best feed you can buy is one that is readily available, one you can afford, and one your dog likes and does well on. And then when you find it stick with it and stop looking over the rainbow for something better. Most dog food are pretty much alike and if there was one a lot better than the rest we would all be feeding it. Only your dog can tell you which is best and between those two you won't be able to tell the difference.

Ezzy

volraider · Post by **volraider** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:24 pm

great post Ezzy!

Born2Hunt · Post by **Born2Hunt** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:54 pm

Thanks for the info. I went with the Diamond high energy because it was closer to the house and they stock it. The sport mix i would have to order each time. Thx

Ranger351 · Post by **Ranger351** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:24 pm

I went with Diamond EA 30/20 and have noticed a huge difference in my dogs coat and weight as well as stool, I am very satisfied with it. Pet club for $30 gets me 40lbs. Born2hunt where is it your buying your food at?

shets114 · Post by **shets114** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:22 am

Wow. Need to get me some of that. A change in coat, weight and stools in two days. What are they putting in that stuff. LOL.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:05 am

shets114 wrote:Wow. Need to get me some of that. A change in coat, weight and stools in two days. What are they putting in that stuff. LOL.

Great point! That always amazes me too. But in this case he never said when he started feeding it.

Ezzy

NJGriffNut · Post by **NJGriffNut** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:18 am

ezzy333 wrote:Either is good. I feed the Diamond HE and the dogs do well on it but I have fed Sportsmix and it is a good feed also. Remember the best feed you can buy is one that is readily available, one you can afford, and one your dog likes and does well on. And then when you find it stick with it and stop looking over the rainbow for something better. Most dog food are pretty much alike and if there was one a lot better than the rest we would all be feeding it. Only your dog can tell you which is best and between those two you won't be able to tell the difference.

Ezzy

This cements the fact that you do not know much about dog food, regardless of your industry biased background.

"Most dog foods are pretty much alike, and if there was one a lot better than the rest we would all be feeding it", is complete bs. There is a definite food hierarchy, and the reasons why people don't feed some of the better foods are obvious. Consumers in general are unaware of the ingredients, sourcing, cooking process, they are expensive per bag, and they are mislead by food companies doing advertising that paint a picture that they dog food itself isn't capable of living up to. It is a parlor trick on behalf of these companies, and the FDA and AAFCO are either unable, or unwilling to properly regulate it to the point of transparency. That is why these bargain brands have followings, its not based on nutrition.

And please, before you go and say that "They all meet AAFCO guidelines", stop because that isn't saying much. Not for nothing, but AAFCO approves of the use of animal fat, and animal digest as a healthy fat and healthy source of protein when it couldn't be further from the truth, and they don't recognize the fact that Omega 3 and Omega 6 fatty acids aren't a nutritional requirement for a dog's wellbeing.

Quite frankly, the fact that you are a moderator or administrator on this website, and provide such misleading and false statements to pet parents who are seeking the truth for the health and well being of their pets is disgraceful.

Born2Hunt · Post by **Born2Hunt** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:07 am

Njgriffnut what is your opinion on the 2 foods which one do you think is better .. thx

Born2Hunt · Post by **Born2Hunt** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:12 am

Ranger im getting mine at pet club as well.. shets that was rangers comment not mine. But it has been 2in days and dogs seem to like the food so far

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:16 am

NJGriffNut wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:Either is good. I feed the Diamond HE and the dogs do well on it but I have fed Sportsmix and it is a good feed also. Remember the best feed you can buy is one that is readily available, one you can afford, and one your dog likes and does well on. And then when you find it stick with it and stop looking over the rainbow for something better. Most dog food are pretty much alike and if there was one a lot better than the rest we would all be feeding it. Only your dog can tell you which is best and between those two you won't be able to tell the difference.

Ezzy
Quite frankly, the fact that you are a moderator or administrator on this website, and provide such misleading and false statements to pet parents who are seeking the truth for the health and well being of their pets is disgraceful.

Gee, now that I have been severely beat about the head and shoulders I want to know what I can do to get back in your good graces. I had no idea we had someone on their forum that has that much expertise in formulating, manufacturing, and marketing of dog food. Could you take time to tell us where you went to school to get your degree, what manufacturing facilities you worked at, what universities you worked with during your research and feeding test, what labs did you use to post the animals during the test so you could determine exactly how each ingredient performed within the digestive tract, and what malformations did the dogs end up with that ate all of that crappie food?

And what are we going to tell all of the people that are working their dogs to the extreme that have found the feeds on our blacklist to be essential ingredients if their dogs are going to maintain their condition to outperform the other dogs that are being fed whatever it is we are now promoting?

It seems everyone is awaiting your answer.

That you

Ezzy

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:21 am

You might wanna add that the AAFCO testing protocol is an utter joke. Rather than go into it, people should do a search and see what it takes to pass. It is laughable.

Griffnut, let me disagree with you on one point. We are spoiled in this part of the country with choices and pricing. We live in a small state with numerous retail outlets and many roads to get to them. Not everyone has 50 brands to choose from competing in the same store, so some people can only get what is around them.

The best foods here are the cheapest to feed because of the pricing policies of the majors. Pro Plan is $48.99 a bag here for 37lb. We are not beholden to feed stores not ordering things we want because it would upset Cargill or Purina.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:23 am

Born2Hunt wrote:Njgriffnut what is your opinion on the 2 foods which one do you think is better .. thx

Let me chime in, when you buy at this price point, the integrity of the manufacturer is key. So in that light SportMix or Pro Pac wins. You will find many more satisfied customers and ZERO recalls with the three foods made by MIdwestern Pet Foods. My local guy quit with Diamond because the returns were getting as high as 50%. Loyall seems to be a good way to go too, people seem very happy with that formula.

NJGriffNut · Post by **NJGriffNut** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:33 am

Yea, I agree with both of your last statements. Integrity and availability, price point are all major factors. Ezzy, I am at work, I will respond when I am at lunch. And which is better, I'll look up both and I'll post what I think.

bossman · Post by **bossman** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:02 am

Hey, njgriff, Please describe "bargin brands". What are some "bargin brands" in your opinion? On another note, while I certainly don't agree with everything everyone say's on this forum (nor do they always agree with me) I think referring to someone as "disgraceful" is totally unwarranted. Especially someone that has obviously paid their dues over several years to the "gun dog" community. One thing is obvious about this forum, we are all passionate about our gun dogs, whether we hunt, trial or both. That commonality itself, in my opinion requires that all are treated with respect. Of course disagree, no one knows everything. I've always said, the most dangerous people are those that don't know what they don't know. I will be looking forward to trying to learn something from your future posts. I'll tell you this , what I have learned from reading differences of opinion from time to time regarding dog food between ezzy and mcbosco is worth the price of admission ( I have learned a lot). Hey, how about posting an "avatar dog"? Would love to see your gun dog.

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:50 pm

If you are not sure whether to believe mcbosco or ezzy, just PM me, and you will get the best advice.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:15 pm

If you really want to feed your dog a performance food check out Innova EVO. Ya ya the price is a little high but you can tell the difference in how well your dog recovers from a rough day of training and always has more in the tank. I fed some 30/20 for a while and her performance would die off after 30 minutes or so at a Sprint, the next day she would get sore and not want to run as fast for prolonged periods. Once I switched it took about two weeks but she won't stop. She is always ready to run and gets about 45-55 minutes of roading 3-5 days. After an hour break she can do it all over again.

I don't care about grain or fillers as long as there is a good amount of protein, fat, and carbs. If I could find a food higher then 42/36 or so I would buy it.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:21 pm

ultracarry wrote:If you really want to feed your dog a performance food check out Innova EVO. Ya ya the price is a little high but you can tell the difference in how well your dog recovers from a rough day of training and always has more in the tank. I fed some 30/20 for a while and her performance would die off after 30 minutes or so at a Sprint, the next day she would get sore and not want to run as fast for prolonged periods. Once I switched it took about two weeks but she won't stop. She is always ready to run and gets about 45-55 minutes of roading 3-5 days. After an hour break she can do it all over again.

I don't care about grain or fillers as long as there is a good amount of protein, fat, and carbs. If I could find a food higher then 42/36 or so I would buy it.

Hey Ultra, don't forget to get your $200 from the Class Action Settlement, seriously $200.

NJGriffNut · Post by **NJGriffNut** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:42 am

The chance of anyone getting more than $1 from that class action lawsuit is unlikely. They can get up to $200 dollars, but the settlement will be divided by the number of claims, after the 35% lawyer fee is taken out. Unlikely to see any decent amount, especially since it spans many years, 2005-2011. Imagine how many people fed that food, then divide 2.15 million -35%. Not much. Definitely file a claim though. Or don't and sue them yourself. If everyone did that, and took the 35% lawyer fee out you may actually recoup some of your lost money.

Anywho. Ezzy,

I did not go to school for anything relating to this, nor have I manufactured dog food, etc. None of that matters either to be perfectly honest with you, because once you know what is going on with the FDA, Consumer Reports, AAFCO and these companies, it goes from the clouded mess that they want you to see, to crystal clear.

Determining a good dog food from a bad dog food is too difficult these days, and that is a fault of FDA, AAFCO and these food manufacturers selling a product via advertising that their dog food cannot live up to. It is a parlor trick, stating one thing with glossy pictures of whole chicken, sliced vegetables, etc, when the food is clearly far from it.

The FDA was unable to regulate pet food, and I've spoken to the current AAFCO president, the regulatory body who was determined to step in and deal with it, and he said they weren't a regulatory body, but that it served an advisory role. It seems the two organizations have left us with little regulation, because no one is completely devoted to pet food, instead they focus on feed because it has to do with human diets. We are left with no one watching pet food manufacturers to see if they are actually living up to what they are claiming, and dogs are dying in the process, either slowly or quickly.

Pet foods come down to manufacturer integrity- which we should all assume they have none because they will not give you straight answers. It comes down to ingredient quality, not the flaccid guidelines AAFCO presented as meeting "nutritional guidelines". There are degrees of better ingredients. Chicken is better than chicken by products, chicken by products is better than poultry by products, poultry by products is better than meat meal, etc.

You need to understand the definition of the food ingredients to see what the manufacturer is LEGALLY able to include within that listing on the bag. IE- Meat Meal. Meat meal, Animal Fat, and Animal Digest are the worst possible ingredients to see within a formula. Why? Because the meat is all the leftover nastiness that isn't used in all human food, and most responsible pet foods. They come from rendering facilities that seek out and process 4 D meats (dead, dying, diseased, and decayed), as well as euthanized animals from pounds and vet facilities. Yes, your dog food can contain dog legally under these definitions and the FDA recently found several foods that contained pentobarbital, a chemical that is only used to euthanize animals.

Not to mention the fact that food companies do not have to legally list the preservatives or chemical stabilizers that are used by their suppliers of meat, and unless you do research, you would have never known. Ala Ethoxquin the known carcinogen being in the Walmart food recently, and Taste of the Wild, a Diamond product.

If you food company uses any type of fish or fish oil, call and ask if they use ethoxyquin. I would almost guarantee that any food priced under $45 dollars a bag uses it. Not to say that price point is the way to find a better food, it couldn't be farther from the truth. There are many overpriced foods out, and in general it is getting out of control.

So Ezzy,

while I do not have a degree, and haven't worked for a pet food manufacturer it has absolutely no bearing on what I know that is going on within the industry, and what is a necessary requirement for dogs/cats. Feeding kibble is ultimately killing our animals anyway. It wasn't created to feed them properly, it was created as a convenience that would be adequate enough for them to survive, not thrive. There are better foods, there are more reputable manufacturers, but if you are feeding a bag on face value, even if you know what the ingredients can legally contain, you still do not know for sure what is in your pets food and all of these companies would like to keep it that way.

As for bargain foods- These are foods selling 50 pounds of product for $20 or so. There is no possible way the food could be a good quality food, because the cost of ingredients wouldn't allow it to be so. Speaking in evolutionary terms, grains should not be the most abundant ingredients in dog food. They are carnivores, and need meat. Yes, they came across grains, berries, fruits, veggies, etc, inside the rumen in the prey's stomach contents, but it wasn't the focus of their diets.

unnamed By products aren't a quality ingredient. Its about degrees. I use by products when feeding my dogs raw. I use beef heart, beef liver, etc. But I know what product I am getting, I know how it is being processed, and I know where it was coming from.

Corn isn't a quality ingredient. Whether ground, in gluten meals, whole, etc. Dogs cannot process corn in any shape. Not entirely.

Animal fat isn't a quality ingredient. It can contain the rendered batch fat of 1000 different animals, including dogs, cats, diseased cows, road kill, etc.

For you to have the experience you have Ezzy, it is quite shocking to see your beliefs in these posts. Do you think by products are treated the same way as chicken? They may be cooked the same way, but there is much more care in transporting, storing, sourcing, etc.

All of my knowledge about the great dog food hoax comes from experience getting to the bottom of things, and talking with the FDA, AAFCO, Consumer Reports, and all the dog food companies, food reps who all sell you bs and have no real answers, and the rendering plants and services that go to municipal pounds and shelters and pick up the euthanized animals.

Just let Merrick, they have a food plant, a rendering facility, and a 4D and euthanized animal pick up service. Where do you think those products are going?

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:00 pm

I personally think we all get too wound up over dogfood.

I have fed an awesome number of different kinds of foods over the years. Joy Performance, Wayne, Fromm's, Purina Pro Plan, Eukanuba, Black Gold Performance, Kasco Performance, WalMart, Sam's Club, Blue Seal, and probably a half dozen or more that I can't think of off the top of my head. Most of the changes have been for pricing and availability but some were to reduce the quantity of the stools. If they still made Kasco, that is what I'd still be feeding.

Aside from one product that seemed to cause sores on several of my dogs(not all) my guys had absolutely no problem with any of the feeds I fed them. The point was made previously that most dog feeds are pretty similar in composition. There are three reasons for that. First is function. The formulas out there do what they are intended to do and each dogfood company knows what the others are offering. Second, all those canine nutritionists and feed formulators went to the same schools, learned from the same professors and read the same books. Third, the cost of ingredients determines, in part, the price point for the feed. However, the cost of ingredients is probably the smallest of the major components of pricing. The other major components of price are advertising and distribution costs.

I do tend to feed a 30/20 blend, especially when the dogs are working, but will and have supplemented with raw fat if it appears necessary.

I currently use a Blue Seal Performance product and am very happy with it.

I will guarantee I ask as much or more from my dogs in the way of performance than anyone out there. The dogs deliver and always have, so it makes me think that, whatever I have fed them...it was adequate in the way of nutrition.

So...feed what you can get fresh locally, feed a ration that has a farily high protein/fat content, especially when you are working the dogs hard, feed what the dogs like to eat and keep an eye on their overall physical condition. That should do you and them just fine.

If on the other hand, you have the time, and desire, you can go all the way to the other end of the spectrum, raise and slaughter your own free range chickens, beef, and lamb, raise your own vegetables, catch your own fish and make up your own custom blend of all natural dog food. Or you can do something in between.

Whatever works for you. The dog will probably do just fine on whatever you provide.

RayG

SubMariner · Post by **SubMariner** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:38 pm

ultracarry wrote:If you really want to feed your dog a performance food check out Innova EVO. Ya ya the price is a little high but you can tell the difference in how well your dog recovers from a rough day of training and always has more in the tank. I fed some 30/20 for a while and her performance would die off after 30 minutes or so at a Sprint, the next day she would get sore and not want to run as fast for prolonged periods. Once I switched it took about two weeks but she won't stop. She is always ready to run and gets about 45-55 minutes of roading 3-5 days. After an hour break she can do it all over again.

I don't care about grain or fillers as long as there is a good amount of protein, fat, and carbs. If I could find a food higher then 42/36 or so I would buy it.

I agree.

Our dog was on Exceed, but even at 4 cups/day he was losing weight & having a lot of "output". After switching to EVO Turkey & Chicken he put on muscle, his coat improved and his "output" was significantly reduced. He also needs about 1/2 as much of the EVO as he was getting in Exceed. So the price difference at the checkout is mitigated by the fact that he needs less of it than the other food.

Siskiyou Blues · Post by **Siskiyou Blues** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:51 pm

NJGriffNut wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:Either is good. I feed the Diamond HE and the dogs do well on it but I have fed Sportsmix and it is a good feed also. Remember the best feed you can buy is one that is readily available, one you can afford, and one your dog likes and does well on. And then when you find it stick with it and stop looking over the rainbow for something better. Most dog food are pretty much alike and if there was one a lot better than the rest we would all be feeding it. Only your dog can tell you which is best and between those two you won't be able to tell the difference.

Ezzy
Quite frankly, the fact that you are a moderator or administrator on this website, and provide such misleading and false statements to pet parents who are seeking the truth for the health and well being of their pets is disgraceful.

Many of us are dog owners. Not "pet parents".

As long as the feed keeps their dog healthy and fit it is good enough. Is that so wrong? The lab I grew up with was fed pretty crappy feed by my parents and lived to be 15 without health problems.

I personally like the Diamond Naturals line of food for my dogs.

mcbosco wrote:Griffnut, let me disagree with you on one point. We are spoiled in this part of the country with choices and pricing. We live in a small state with numerous retail outlets and many roads to get to them. Not everyone has 50 brands to choose from competing in the same store, so some people can only get what is around them.

hah! I grew up in NJ, maybe spoiled with all the crap you can buy without leaving rt 17 but I don't think you are spoiled with too much else!

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:24 pm

Many of us are dog owners. Not "pet parents". As long as the feed keeps their dog healthy and fit it is good enough. Is that so wrong? The lab I grew up with was fed pretty crappy feed by my parents and lived to be 15 without health problems.

Ditto! It's amazing that probably 99 per cent of us have been feeding horrible food, according to a few of the self proclaimed experts, all these years and have somehow had happy, healthy, energetic and long living dogs.

This includes field trialers and people who hunt all day in all kinds of terrain and conditions. I continue to read these threads and it always happens that when people with actual credentials and experience put up a post, they get attacked because they disagree with the propoganda. So I will continue to do what I have always done and get the same results I have always gotten because years of experience feeding dogs tells me more than anything I read. I just hope that new comers don't think they have to spend $2.00 a pound for dog food in order to have a happy, healthy and good looking dog.

Charlie

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:44 pm

NJGriffNut,

Thanks for the post. I think everyone has a better idea of where you are coming from. We have had so many discussions on dog food and all I have ever tried to do is teach a little about formulation, manufacturing, And marketing to the people who want to know. I am not going to do that this time as it would be useless since you really are not open to anything that might not agree with your preconceived idea of how to do everything already.

A few things that hit me I might comment on but that will it. First, you should have started your post with "in my opinion". And there is nothing wrong with having one since we all do. But if I make any statements on here I try to keep them to the facts that have and can be proved through education and experience. Many of your facts about what are quality ingredients for a dog food is just not right and has been proven. I think that practically everyone that has taken it upon themselves to find fault with our dog food and the manufactures have started with the misconceived notion that dogs are human and should be fed like one. And that is not true. The other thing is these same people without exception have done all of their research with a preconceived opinion, and as has always been true, you can find what you are looking for. But too many times you won't listen to your own research if it doesn't agree with what you think it should be. I am actually surprised at some of the conceptions you had about the duties and responsibilities of the FDA, AAFCO and the USDA even though you didn't mention them. How else can you make the statements you do about what we feed and then see that 99% or more of the high performance dogs in the world are eating the very feeds you say that a dog can't thrive on? Your research has told you one thing but you refuse to listen to it because that is not what you wanted to hear..

Can dog food be made better, probably but what is the cost benefit ratio of doing that? Are dogs healthier and living longer now than ever before? The answer is yes, and the next question then is why.

Over all the years I dealt with quality assurance and talked with our customers as well as those dreaded agencies that aren't doing enough to make every decision for us, it became evident that most of the complaints came from some one that had decided they knew more than the people who spent years being educated and then working for years to insure we were producing a quality feed that did preform the functions that led to our healthy happy dogs that are laying at our feet, the ones in our kennels, and those out in the field looking for birds. They all do their job quite well and they all like to supplement their crappy dog food with horse byproduct, bird by-product, roadkill, and every other piece of garbage they can find that has laid in the sun and rotted and has been visited by every fly in the neighborhood that left the eggs that turned into those cute little white worms. But that isn't much worse than people do with a lot of their food too but we wont discuss that here.

In the end, feed what you like, let the rest of us do the same, and don't waste your time telling everyone which is the best feed since there isn't one. But there are a heck of a lot of good ones, and if you want a testimonial of that ask the thousands of dogs you meet every year in the show ring, field trial , a backyard, or on your lap.

Ezzy

shets114 · Post by **shets114** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:59 pm

ezzy333 wrote:NJGriffNut,

Thanks for the post. I think everyone has a better idea of where you are coming from. We have had so many discussions on dog food and all I have ever tried to do is teach a little about formulation, manufacturing, And marketing to the people who want to know. I am not going to do that this time as it would be useless since you really are not open to anything that might not agree with your preconceived idea of how to do everything already.

A few things that hit me I might comment on but that will it. First, you should have started your post with "in my opinion". And there is nothing wrong with having one since we all do. But if I make any statements on here I try to keep them to the facts that have and can be proved through education and experience. Many of your facts about what are quality ingredients for a dog food is just not right and has been proven. I think that practically everyone that has taken it upon themselves to find fault with our dog food and the manufactures have started with the misconceived notion that dogs are human and should be fed like one. And that is not true. The other thing is these same people without exception have done all of their research with a preconceived opinion, and as has always been true, you can find what you are looking for. But too many times you won't listen to your own research if it doesn't agree with what you think it should be. I am actually surprised at some of the conceptions you had about the duties and responsibilities of the FDA, AAFCO and the USDA even though you didn't mention them. How else can you make the statements you do about what we feed and then see that 99% or more of the high performance dogs in the world are eating the very feeds you say that a dog can't thrive on? Your research has told you one thing but you refuse to listen to it because that is not what you wanted to hear..

Can dog food be made better, probably but what is the cost benefit ratio of doing that? Are dogs healthier and living longer now than ever before? The answer is yes, and the next question then is why.

Over all the years I dealt with quality assurance and talked with our customers as well as those dreaded agencies that aren't doing enough to make every decision for us, it became evident that most of the complaints came from some one that had decided they knew more than the people who spent years being educated and then working for years to insure we were producing a quality feed that did preform the functions that led to our healthy happy dogs that are laying at our feet, the ones in our kennels, and those out in the field looking for birds. They all do their job quite well and they all like to supplement their crappy dog food with horse byproduct, bird by-product, roadkill, and every other piece of garbage they can find that has laid in the sun and rotted and has been visited by every fly in the neighborhood that left the eggs that turned into those cute little white worms. But that isn't much worse than people do with a lot of their food too but we wont discuss that here.

In the end, feed what you like, let the rest of us do the same, and don't waste your time telling everyone which is the best feed since there isn't one. But there are a heck of a lot of good ones, and if you want a testimonial of that ask the thousands of dogs you meet every year in the show ring, field trial , a backyard, or on your lap.

Ezzy

Oh My I can't actually believe that I am going to say Right On to Ezzy..

nanney1 · Post by **nanney1** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:02 am

While I get great info and feedback here, I do occasionally ask other dog owners I see in person what they feed, especially if I like the look and condition of their dog. Here are a few examples:

Local dog park - Harlequin Great Dane, great size and condition, coat was amazing and soft - Science Diet large breed. Also at the dog park was a very muscular Boxer, lots of muscle with definition, a real freaky looking dog. He was fed Ol' Roy meat chunks and gravy.

People who show their dogs feed everything under the sun, Pro Plan, Eukanuba, Bil-Jac, Raw, etc... However, I spoke with a Pro Plan rep at a Labrador Specialty show and she told me that most Lab owners who show like Pro Plan Original Chicken and Rice 26/16. And she said those with heavily coated breeds (Poodles, Afghans, Irish, etc...) were combining Pro Plan Performance and Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach. Apparently, this was the combination of foods that many really liked for some reason. This rep spent her time at dog shows and not performance events so that was her point of reference and was speaking from a Pro Plan point of view.

When I talk with hunters in this area, usually coon hunters, most feed Diamond or Black Gold.

And of course, the number 1 dry food in the US, without ever being advertised in a television commercial, is Ol' Roy. Since Ol' Roy is number 1 in sales, it would be my guess that in addition to the everyday pet owner, quite a few bird doggers, coonhunters, beaglers, breeders, and even a few show people are feeding it, though they may not all admit to using this food.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:55 am

nanney1 wrote:While I get great info and feedback here, I do occasionally ask other dog owners I see in person what they feed, especially if I like the look and condition of their dog. Here are a few examples:

Local dog park - Harlequin Great Dane, great size and condition, coat was amazing and soft - Science Diet large breed. Also at the dog park was a very muscular Boxer, lots of muscle with definition, a real freaky looking dog. He was fed Ol' Roy meat chunks and gravy.

People who show their dogs feed everything under the sun, Pro Plan, Eukanuba, Bil-Jac, Raw, etc... However, I spoke with a Pro Plan rep at a Labrador Specialty show and she told me that most Lab owners who show like Pro Plan Original Chicken and Rice 26/16. And she said those with heavily coated breeds (Poodles, Afghans, Irish, etc...) were combining Pro Plan Performance and Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach. Apparently, this was the combination of foods that many really liked for some reason. This rep spent her time at dog shows and not performance events so that was her point of reference and was speaking from a Pro Plan point of view.

When I talk with hunters in this area, usually coon hunters, most feed Diamond or Black Gold.

And of course, the number 1 dry food in the US, without ever being advertised in a television commercial, is Ol' Roy. Since Ol' Roy is number 1 in sales, it would be my guess that in addition to the everyday pet owner, quite a few bird doggers, coonhunters, beaglers, breeders, and even a few show people are feeding it, though they may not all admit to using this food.

REALLY, ol' roy is number 1 in sales in the U.S

i never would have guessed that, i would have figured proplan for sure

hmmm, thanks for the info...ruth

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:08 am

Most dogs WILL do well on Ol'Roy or Ol'Roy Premium, but there will be more piles, and they will eat more. So, it's not cost effective, and they make more messes. Some people don't realize the difference, but I do as I came to that realization many years ago when I used to feed it.

nanney1 · Post by **nanney1** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:31 am

Well some people do ALL of their shopping at Wally World. I mean you can buy groceries and anything else in one trip. Get your car serviced and tires rotated. Go to the bank, eye doctor, pharmacy, really everything. And grab a bag or two of dog food while you scarf down some chicken wings and pasta salad from the food bar. Then, fill your car up with gas before you leave.

As for me, I don't like the parking lot, the crowds, or the whole general atmosphere. Just not my favorite place.

NJGriffNut · Post by **NJGriffNut** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:42 am

Ezzy, my opinions are based in facts and the research that is available to anyone who researches it. I can say, that you can find research backing anything you want to have an agenda for. That goes both ways here. Look at the recent Consumers Report stating that there is little difference nutritionally from low cost dog food, to high cost dog food. Obviously that isn't true, it couldnt be. Your facts, come from inside the industry. However, that has no more bearing on your opinion of facts, then mine. And no, I do not have a preconceived idea that dogs should be fed like humans, that is not where my problem with pet food as a whole comes into play. I feed raw and supplement with kibble because dogs, speaking in terms of evolution, ate raw meat. Also, I did not state that a dog could not thrive on these foods that I feel are lacking the proper care and consideration to the ingredients, sourcing, and cooking procedures, dogs will and have. That group of dogs thriving on the bare necessities *which is the only thing aafco guides us about, and it still has blaring inadequacies amongst its panels*, can still be a genetic anomaly.

To your point, food CAN be made better and needs to be made better. As for the cost ratio, the cost will go up. It has to because sourcing better ingredients, and treating them with the necessary care as to prevent spoilage, disease, and general increasing standards of practice will be more expensive then sourcing ground up dog, cat, and 4d meal at a rendering facility. Is that a bad thing?

Let me ask you some questions ezzy.

Is meat meal adequate in providing nutrition for dogs/cats? Now is it a quality ingredient? And should it be used?

Is corn able to provide dogs and cats with nutrition? Is it a quality ingredient, and should it be used?

Is AAFCO's bare minimum nutritional guidelines doing enough for our dogs?

Is Pet food in this country regulated properly?

Is cancer increasing amongst dogs?

Are allergies increasing amongst dogs?

Is kibble a convenience, or a way to properly feed a dog?

Is corn, wheat, soy, grains, a cause to many of the allergies today?

Are ingredients from rendering plants causing cancer in our dogs?

Are dog food manufacturers doing everything they can to ensure our pet's living a healthy life?

All of these questions have obvious answers, because the research is out there.

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:10 am

Ezzy, my opinions are based in facts and the research that is available to anyone who researches it.

All of these questions have obvious answers, because the research is out there.

links?

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:47 am

Is meat meal adequate in providing nutrition for dogs/cats? Now is it a quality ingredient? And should it be used?Yes, Yes and Yes
Is corn able to provide dogs and cats with nutrition? Is it a quality ingredient, and should it be used?Definitely Yes,Yes, and Yes

Is AAFCO's bare minimum nutritional guidelines doing enough for our dogs? yes

Is Pet food in this country regulated properly? Not sure about properly but if you mean enough then yes.

Is cancer increasing amongst dogs?I have never seen any facts on the numbers

HaAre allergies increasing amongst dogs? Haven't seen any facts on this but my guess would be yes if they are following the numbers of our human population.
Is kibble a convenience, or a way to properly feed a dog?It is not only properl but do to the fact that people do not take the time to properly formulate a raw or home diet it is the best. way.

Is corn, wheat, soy, grains, a cause to many of the allergies today?No, and that can be backed up very clearly with the research that has been done. The incedence of an allergy to any feedstuff is extremely low and on top of that ,over 90% of the few are caused by a protien sourse and not a grain of any kind.

Are ingredients from rendering plants causing cancer in our dogs? I haven't seen any evidence of it but then most feed probably does not have any meat products from a rendering plant.

Are dog food manufacturers doing everything they can to ensure our pet's living a healthy life? No

All of these questions have obvious answers, because the research is out there.[/quote]
as somneone else said show us the proof.

northUpland · Post by **northUpland** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:13 pm

To get back to the question asked... The Sportmix 24/20 (black bag) is 552 calories/cup. Diamond Hi Energy 24/20 is 400 calories/cup. Diamond Performance 30/20 is 448 calories/cup. If you are also looking around and buying from a local Diamond dealer their Natural Extreme Athlete 32/25 and is a great choice. It packs 470 calories/cup(gluten free) I just read through this post...wow. That's a lot of soap boxing going down! As always...put your dogs on it and see what you think. There is science behind such things to consider first...but practical application and results rule the gun dog world. -Mark

P.S. Cancer rates are indeed increasing in humans. NJGriffNut, if you could provide any data as a relation to canine cancer it would be much appreciated. I believe that there is a connection but lean more towards the factual degradation of our global water supply as the majority trigger in the increased human/canine cancer rate. Thoughts and response to this appreciated. Thanks.

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