What is a "hot feed"?

[Hondo]

I have read many threads that mention "hot feeds" or "feed being too hot for my dog" or something similar. What does this mean? What is the effect of a "hot feed" on a dog?

Also, if a 30% protein/20% fat dog food seems to be the gold standard for field trialing, hard hunting, hard working dogs then why wouldn't everyone want to use it. I use Loyall Active Adult which is 26/19, but if what I read is true then I should switch to a 30/20 and just adjust the quantity based on activity level and condition of the dog. If a 30/20 gives a dog the ability to perform better then why wouldn't everyone use it?

Since joining this forum last year, I have found it to be extremely informative and enjoyable. It is great to share a common interest with so many great people. Since getting my first gun dog last year I have really learned a lot and continually strive to learn all I can.

-Hondo

[nanney1]

I'll answer based on what I've read and heard. No personal experience. A feed that is "too hot" for a dog would be one that causes it to overheat and tire quickly while running. "That feed is too hot and burns em up" is a saying I've heard. While I'm sure it is something that can happen to any breed in any situation, it is usually attributed to performance dogs during hunts or hunting competitions.

Whether it is a 30/20, 32/21, or 26/18, is irrelevant if the dog experiences the overheating. From what I've gathered, some feel that the protein percentage is the culprit in some feeds causing the dog to run hot, while the high fat is needed for energy. That is why some choose to run a lower protein, high fat energy formula such as a 24/20.

While I'm sure running hot happens with bird dogs, it is something I've heard more in conjunction with coondogs who are asked to run long hours on hot nights.

[Greg Jennings]

When I hear "too hot" in the context of feed, I think of one that is too high in protein or fat for the level of activity for the dog or is overdone in one of those areas for marketing purposes.

I look for a food that my dogs do well on. Energy levels, coat and stools tell you a lot.

It's also important that I be able to get my hands on it. I really don't like to get into a food, then have to switch the dogs because the store where I do business doesn't have it.

I used to feed one food most of the time and go to another when I was working the dogs hard. Anymore, I just feed the same thing and supplement the food when they're going to be more active.

But, I'm small time, really busy with two high schoolers playing sports year 'round and don't have the opportunity to train that I used to.

[birddog1968]

Never heard of a dog overheating from a feed......

Hot feed refers to a nutritionally dense feed. I feed 32/25 some call that a hot feed. If fed too much of a feed like this the dog will almost surely have
looses stools and gas. If your dog does well for what you do , on the feed your using, no reason to change. If your having trouble keeping weight on a dog or he seems to run outta gas early during hard workouts (by hard i mean days where he/she would have 25+ miles running) then maybe a hotter feed would be of service.

[mcbosco]

It is just an expression like "hey that babe is hot"

[kninebirddog]

When I hear "too hot" in the context of feed, I think of one that is too high in protein or fat for the level of activity for the dog or is overdone in one of those areas for marketing purposes.

I look for a food that my dogs do well on. Energy levels, coat and stools tell you a lot.

It's also important that I be able to get my hands on it. I really don't like to get into a food, then have to switch the dogs because the store where I do business doesn't have it.

I used to feed one food most of the time and go to another when I was working the dogs hard. Anymore, I just feed the same thing and supplement the food when they're going to be more active.

But, I'm small time, really busy with two high schoolers playing sports year 'round and don't have the opportunity to train that I used to.

Ditto when the food offers to much for the dog - more then the dog can utilize

how a food is processed will determine more as to what a dog will get out of a food versus what the label says

[ezzy333]

The term hot used in this way is interchangable with potent. It just has more in it than the dog needs or uses.

how a food is processed will determine more as to what a dog will get out of a food versus what the label says

This quote in my experience is more of a marketing statement than anything else. Like formulation, processing is all very much alike and there is little difference in how ingredients are processed and little difference in digestibility of any of the standard ingredients used in dog food. If anyone could find a processing procedure that actually made a difference everyone would be using it tomorrow. This doesn't man there isn't differences but those differences are outside of the dog food area. An example is the grinding of corn. If it was left whole in the kernel it isn't as easily digestible as ground corn. But all corn that is used in a processed feed is ground pretty much alike and has to be if you are going to pellet it or form it into nuggets of any kind. The cooking everyone talks about takes place in the pelleting process and not in a big pot like many surmise when they hear the term cooked. Again it is basically impossible to not cook it in the process due to the extremely high pressure and friction used to make the pellet. The same thing happens with all of the other ingredients in the process as well. The size of the whole in the die, the thickness of the die, the amount of steam used in the conditioner, plus the amount of fat in the meal all have an effect on how hot(cooked) the feed is and if a quality pellet is going to be made then you have a small tolerance in how that whole process takes place.

The trends today is towards over formulation for the average dog and that includes most of our dogs. But we are in a time in our whole society that says if a little is good then more is better. In many cases we have lived to rue the day we decided that and we will see it continue in the near future I am afraid.

Ezzy

[kninebirddog]

So how come a dog can do better on a 24/20 then a 30/20 if not for the way the food is processed and yes this is a side by side comparison of pro plan performance and loyall performance. and how 19 dogs all faired on the road.I do pay attention

[mcbosco]

I have done my own comparisons over the years and I cannot agree at all with what the moderator says. Whethers it is weight stability, stools, gas, water consumption, teeth, long-term palatibility, etc. There are differences and some cheaper foods work better than expensive ones, I will give him that.

[ezzy333]

So how come a dog can do better on a 24/20 then a 30/20 if not for the way the food is processed and yes this is a side by side comparison of pro plan performance and loyall performance. and how 19 dogs all faired on the road.I do pay attention

Arlette, Not sure we have room or time to explain all of it but first thing is it isn't the protein level that normally effects how a dog looks. Protein is for growing and repairing muscles when you are working a dog. Carbs and fats are what you see when you look at the body conditioning of a dog. Next, there is no such thing as protein as far as the dog is concerned. It is nothing more than a term we use to identify amino acids in the feed. You could feed a 50% protein feed but if the percent of the lowest amino acid is 20% of the needed amount that is all of the total protein the dog can use. It is exactly like I have told you a few years ago when we developed a corn that was high in lysine, which is normally one of the amino acids that is in short supply, we were able to lower the over all protein level 2 to 3 % when we used the high lysine corn with absolutely the same results in every feed test we did. This is exactly the reason a varied source of protein which includes both aninmal and vegetable sources normally will let you get by with a lower protein overall and will let you do it cheaper as well. Also another reason to include corn in the diet.

If what you say is true then the reason is the balance of ingredients used and has little to nothing to do with processing. What makes it extremely hard to really know what is happening without doing actual feed test is the next person will tell you their dogs do better on PPP or some other feed. I can go back on our posts on this forum and find examples of people finding their dogs do better on the exact feeds you say won't work or any other feeds s far as that goes. And everyone of them think they are right.

Ezzy

[ultracarry]

My dog does better on Innova EVO - red meat , then she does on euk 30/20... eats the same amount of Innova and has less stool and seems to have a better coat. And yes I know there is a law suit (which is based upon something that I'm not concerned about.)

And its considered a "hot feed" by most at 42/32.(or something like that?)

Feed the dog what it does better on and don't worrie about the rest.

[Georgia Boy]

When I hear the expression "hot" feed I think of one that has more corn in it. I know we are talking dogs not livestock but in the winter we feed more corn which I believe helps animals produce heat.

[Thinking]

"Hot feed" has a different context in some places. When we run hounds on deer, if the dogger is hungover, he usually parts with his breakfast somewhere on the first hill, when the dogs are still with him. They get to have a "hot feed" to start the day, thanks to the dogger.

[RoostersMom]

I call a feed "hot" if it has too much energy for my dog to properly utilize. "Hot feeds" for horses and cows is feed that has too much energy, like corn vs. wheat or Alfalfa vs grass hay. With too hot of a feed, the animals have too much energy or with horses, are "hot", re: they are too energetic and too "high" to settle down. I have a few dogs that get diarhhea when on a "hot" feed - for example, they get loose stools when placed on a performance feed instead of an adult feed - they eventually get diarrhea and are a bit hyper on the higher performance feeds.

[ultracarry]

"Hot feed" has a different context in some places. When we run hounds on deer, if the dogger is hungover, he usually parts with his breakfast somewhere on the first hill, when the dogs are still with him. They get to have a "hot feed" to start the day, thanks to the dogger.

Don't think people got it! LoL if Hung over at a trial a handler may do the same.

[ezzy333]

"Hot feed" has a different context in some places. When we run hounds on deer, if the dogger is hungover, he usually parts with his breakfast somewhere on the first hill, when the dogs are still with him. They get to have a "hot feed" to start the day, thanks to the dogger.

Don't think people got it! LoL if Hung over at a trial a handler may do the same.

I think everyone got it but wisely tried to ignore it.

Ezzy

[markj]

I think everyone got it but wisely tried to ignore it.

Ai, brings back hard memories of opening day when Iwas a kid, guys went out night before got real drunk then we all went hunting. Dad took us as we were the retrievers Budweiser methane and puking in the field. Them guys are long gone now and we dont do this today.


Hot feed is high in protein, in the cattle world a baby can be harmed if the mom is fed too hot a feed. Is more common in milk producers and their bucket calves they sell off. Calf dies as it cant absorb nutrition.

We fed a hot feed to our race horses when in training and on the track, off season grass and some grain is all they got. Like a power lifter he eats a lot of high protein foods to build bulk and muscle.

[Hondo]

So a "hot feed" is either:

1. A feed that causes a dog to overheat and tire quickly while running.

2. One that is high in protein or fat for the level activity of the dog.

3. Refers to a nutritionally dense feed.

4. A feed that has more corn in it.

5. A feed that has too much energy for a dog to utilize.

It is interesting to me that this term has been used many times in various posts and yet it has multiple meaning depending on the person using it. And from what I can extrapolate more people tend to believe that a "hot feed" is one that has a high level of protein.

My question, is at what protein percentage level does a feed become "hot"?.
What is the detriment to the dog if there is too much protein and/or fat in their diet based on the dog's activity level.
Then based on percentages alone is a owner better off feeding their dogs a 30/20, or a 26/18, or 24/20 everything else being equal. In this case I am refering to a dog that hunts hard during bird season and/or field trialing season and is the family dog the rest of the year with substantially less activity.

-Hondo

[shags]

My question, is at what protein percentage level does a feed become "hot"?. That would depend on the dog and how it reacts to the food.
What is the detriment to the dog if there is too much protein and/or fat in their diet based on the dog's activity level.Barring any existing/latent medical issues that would affect the dog, the only thing I see is that the dog could get fat.
Then based on percentages alone is a owner better off feeding their dogs a 30/20, or a 26/18, or 24/20 everything else being equal. In this case I am refering to a dog that hunts hard during bird season and/or field trialing season and is the family dog the rest of the year with substantially less activity.There is no magic number for all dogs. Go with what works. If the dog won't hold weight or loses muscle mass, doesn't hold up for a day's activity, or doesn't recover reasonably well, it's time to change to a higher-powered food. If the dog gets fat, or develops diet-related health problems, change to something lower-powered

That's my take on the dog food issue, anyhow Just go with what works for you and don't sweat it otherwise. I feed the same thing all year around, cutting back as necessary in the off seasons.

[Hondo]

My question, is at what protein percentage level does a feed become "hot"?. That would depend on the dog and how it reacts to the food.
What is the detriment to the dog if there is too much protein and/or fat in their diet based on the dog's activity level.Barring any existing/latent medical issues that would affect the dog, the only thing I see is that the dog could get fat.
Then based on percentages alone is a owner better off feeding their dogs a 30/20, or a 26/18, or 24/20 everything else being equal. In this case I am refering to a dog that hunts hard during bird season and/or field trialing season and is the family dog the rest of the year with substantially less activity.There is no magic number for all dogs. Go with what works. If the dog won't hold weight or loses muscle mass, doesn't hold up for a day's activity, or doesn't recover reasonably well, it's time to change to a higher-powered food. If the dog gets fat, or develops diet-related health problems, change to something lower-powered

That's my take on the dog food issue, anyhow Just go with what works for you and don't sweat it otherwise. I feed the same thing all year around, cutting back as necessary in the off seasons.

Thanks for taking the time to anwer my questions. Very informative