Gun Dog Forum

Well, after years of hearing about it, talking with others about it, and reading about it, I finally experienced (well, my dog did) a physical reaction to what I think was a food allergy. Getting ready for hunting season, I usually start feeding EVO or some other high-protein/high-fat food 60 days ahead of the opener. This year, it was EVO red meat and almost immediately, Buddy started getting ugly dark stuff in his ears. I originally thought it was irritation from cheatgrass seeds, then infection (he was sensitive to my poking around in there) but nothing. We'd clean every couple days, and still the gunk returned. Yuk.

He also put on too much weight, so it was easy to swap out the 40/30 diet for something around 32/20 and guess what? 1/4 bag into it, and the ear gunk is minimal and (hopefully) stays that way.

Am I drawing a conclusion too soon? Any experience with diet, allergy, and (what appears to be) ear issues?

You'd have to do a double blind study Scott - one dog gets Evo and one doesn't.

http://healthlibrary.epnet.com/GetConte ... kiid=21849

Probably, but beef is the most common allergen.

Scott, Bend is a very dry place normally. Was this year unusually wet or humid?

that is EXACTLY what started my warnings of my dogs allergies..waxy stinky stuff in his ears..he dug them and then the hot spots and hair loss began soon after..i spent alot of money having him tested and he is allergic to many things including corn, soy, chicken, beef, dandelions, grass and much more lol..the ears are a clear indication of a problem in dogs so even if its not an allergy it may be too moist in the ear and some ear cleaner with a drying agent will help keep it clean and dry in there, talk to your vet ..i have always kept my dog on natural dog food since and he does REALLY well now, no issues but ive tried putting him on the PROPLAN a few times just to see and it all starts up again so im done trying it, hes on proplan selects (salmon) and does great...good luck...ruth

We just went to the vet this weekend for what we suspect is allergies in our older Chessie. Ear gunk, open sores on her belly and legs, really scaley rough looking skin and diarrhea for the past month. We had taken her to the vet last month for the diarrhea and he said it might just be too much protein in her food, so we switched to a lower protein type. Chicken based food is what we've been feeding - and it only got worse over this last month. In addition to the antibiotics the vet prescribed, I've put her on a rice and rabbit or rice and venison diet. I'll try that for a month and see how she progresses. She was really rough looking.

I think you could very well have an allergy. Chicken and corn are common allergens for dogs that develop allergies.

RoostersMom wrote:We just went to the vet this weekend for what we suspect is allergies in our older Chessie. Ear gunk, open sores on her belly and legs, really scaley rough looking skin and diarrhea for the past month. We had taken her to the vet last month for the diarrhea and he said it might just be too much protein in her food, so we switched to a lower protein type. Chicken based food is what we've been feeding - and it only got worse over this last month. In addition to the antibiotics the vet prescribed, I've put her on a rice and rabbit or rice and venison diet. I'll try that for a month and see how she progresses. She was really rough looking.

I think you could very well have an allergy. Chicken and corn are common allergens for dogs that develop allergies.

I have always heard that chicken was one of the best animal protein sources and it is well known dispite all of the gossip that corn or any grain is rarely involved in an allergy situation.

Ezzy

ezzy333 wrote:

RoostersMom wrote:We just went to the vet this weekend for what we suspect is allergies in our older Chessie. Ear gunk, open sores on her belly and legs, really scaley rough looking skin and diarrhea for the past month. We had taken her to the vet last month for the diarrhea and he said it might just be too much protein in her food, so we switched to a lower protein type. Chicken based food is what we've been feeding - and it only got worse over this last month. In addition to the antibiotics the vet prescribed, I've put her on a rice and rabbit or rice and venison diet. I'll try that for a month and see how she progresses. She was really rough looking.

I think you could very well have an allergy. Chicken and corn are common allergens for dogs that develop allergies.

I have always heard that chicken was one of the best animal protein sources and it is well known dispite all of the gossip that corn or any grain is rarely involved in an allergy situation.

Ezzy

Ezzy, beef, chicken, eggs, dairy and wheat gluten cause the vast majority of real allergies, even if food allergies as a whole are rare. Grains including corn are so insignificant that in one big study they group them all and still they were less than 3-4% of all allergies. Study after study show corn no worse than rice at 1% of all allergies.

Chicken and beef are common allergens.

mcbosco wrote:

ezzy333 wrote:

RoostersMom wrote:We just went to the vet this weekend for what we suspect is allergies in our older Chessie. Ear gunk, open sores on her belly and legs, really scaley rough looking skin and diarrhea for the past month. We had taken her to the vet last month for the diarrhea and he said it might just be too much protein in her food, so we switched to a lower protein type. Chicken based food is what we've been feeding - and it only got worse over this last month. In addition to the antibiotics the vet prescribed, I've put her on a rice and rabbit or rice and venison diet. I'll try that for a month and see how she progresses. She was really rough looking.

I think you could very well have an allergy. Chicken and corn are common allergens for dogs that develop allergies.

I have always heard that chicken was one of the best animal protein sources and it is well known dispite all of the gossip that corn or any grain is rarely involved in an allergy situation.

Ezzy

Ezzy, beef, chicken, eggs, dairy and wheat gluten cause the vast majority of real allergies, even if food allergies as a whole are rare. Grains including corn are so insignificant that in one big study they group them all and still they were less than 3-4% of all allergies. Study after study show corn no worse than rice at 1% of all allergies.

Chicken and beef are common allergens.

Our tests always showed red meat of any kind was the main culprit and chickem the least of the meat sources.


Ezzy
Ezzy

I guess it's well known to everyone but me that corn is not a common dog allergen .

I've always heard that chicken, beef and corn were major culprits with dog allergies. I don't know that firsthand - just what I've read. Our dog was eating a chicken meal based feed, not beef when she started having these problems. I have heard that chicken is oftentimes a culprit in allergies - but then again, I'd heard corn was often a problem as well. For our dog, I think it's chicken.

"It has been found that certain ingredients in common dog foods are more likely to cause canine food allergies than others. These common food allergens are:

beef;
wheat;
dairy products, such as milk and cheese;
eggs;
chicken;
corn;

Again, there are differences between allergies and sensitivities in humans, and I can only assume the same with dogs. It's probably poorly researched but something to consider nevertheless.

Thank you all! Yes, a very moist year, but not a lot of swimming. Been a while since we used a red meat based diet, so I jumped to that immediately. Haven't fed anything with corn or wheat ever, as best I can remember. And now that the pup's back, maybe a double-blind study would be in order except I don't wanna subject the little guy to Buddy's situation. Anyone want to suggest yeast infection?

One of my dogs had some brown smelly gunk in her ears, that I kept cleaning out for several months. I'd get a wet paper towel and get what I could and then use a store bought ear cleaning solution to flush. She was on the same diet as the other dog, who had no problem. I was at the vets for something else, and asked him to look. He checked and found no ear mites and said it was a yeast infection, most likely caused by the water work we do or being in the field or timber, where debree, dirt, etc, can get trapped. I left with an expensive little bottle of Mometamax. I followed doing the drops for 10 days. We were good for a couple weeks, and I did a few spot treatments after that, and we've been fine for months now. I'm not sure, but I think if it's a yeast infection, you might not be able to just clean with anything and expect it to resolve. I'd think you'd want to try the purple genetian (?) recipe or the prescription course I did, to see if you could get it gone for good. If you couldn't, then I'd be suspect.

wems2371 wrote:One of my dogs had some brown smelly gunk in her ears, that I kept cleaning out for several months. I'd get a wet paper towel and get what I could and then use a store bought ear cleaning solution to flush. She was on the same diet as the other dog, who had no problem. I was at the vets for something else, and asked him to look. He checked and found no ear mites and said it was a yeast infection, most likely caused by the water work we do or being in the field or timber, where debree, dirt, etc, can get trapped. I left with an expensive little bottle of Mometamax. I followed doing the drops for 10 days. We were good for a couple weeks, and I did a few spot treatments after that, and we've been fine for months now. I'm not sure, but I think if it's a yeast infection, you might not be able to just clean with anything and expect it to resolve. I'd think you'd want to try the purple genetian (?) recipe or the prescription course I did, to see if you could get it gone for good. If you couldn't, then I'd be suspect.

Most ear problems are yeast infections and they grow where there is moisture. Hence, drop eared dogs are prone to it where you seldom see it in a prick eared dog due to better air movement. If it was caused by corn it would be the same in both types of ears. But it is caused by swimming, getting the ear wet though it happens in some dogs with a lot of hair around the ear and the dropped ear just from lack of air movement..

Ezzy

Scott Linden wrote:Thank you all! Yes, a very moist year, but not a lot of swimming. Been a while since we used a red meat based diet, so I jumped to that immediately. Haven't fed anything with corn or wheat ever, as best I can remember. And now that the pup's back, maybe a double-blind study would be in order except I don't wanna subject the little guy to Buddy's situation. Anyone want to suggest yeast infection?

the yeast infection is one of the results when a dog has allergies, as i said it definitly could be from being chronically wet as well so keep it clean and dry with a cleaner and if it clears up you know thats the issue BUT if no matter how much you keep it dry and if its infected even when you dont have the dog swimming then you start using the process of elimination..it takes along time to narrow down the issue, if the dogs on chicken switch to beef or visa versa and if it continues go to salmon which is least likely to be an issue..good luck, ruth..

i should add also that i had 2 labs i rescued about 3 years ago (brothers) and one of them obsessively licked the other ones ears and they stayed infected with yeast, do you have a dog that could be doing this to your dogs ears??..rare im sure but a possibility as ive experienced it first hand..i sprayed some green apple on the outside of his ear and kept his brother off of it and it cleared up in a week good as new ...ruth

RoostersMom wrote:We just went to the vet this weekend for what we suspect is allergies in our older Chessie. Ear gunk, open sores on her belly and legs, really scaley rough looking skin and diarrhea for the past month. We had taken her to the vet last month for the diarrhea and he said it might just be too much protein in her food, so we switched to a lower protein type. Chicken based food is what we've been feeding - and it only got worse over this last month. In addition to the antibiotics the vet prescribed, I've put her on a rice and rabbit or rice and venison diet. I'll try that for a month and see how she progresses. She was really rough looking.

I think you could very well have an allergy. Chicken and corn are common allergens for dogs that develop allergies.

I once worked at a vet clinic that had as a mascot a doberman that had been abandoned. She took up residence there at around 4 months old and was fed an upper end commercial food with the typical chicken base with grains etc. The dog looked great - sleek, shiny, lots of energy.

When she was around 4 years old she fell off drastically. Her temperament changed, she lost weight, and her skin and coat were awful -dull and scurfy with little sores everywhere. The vet ran all kinds of tests thinking there was something majorly wrong with this formerly beautiful dog; this was before the explosion of specialty dog foods and the idea of sensitivites and allergies to ingredients just wasn't usually considered. It was suggested that maybe the food was causing her problems since no tests showed anything that would be responsible to the dog's decline. The vet said, 'No way, millions of dogs eat this food and millions of dollars have gone into the company's research so the food is fine, yadda yadda'

Long story short, the dog was put on another food, nothing special, something widely available. And she immediately began to improve much to the relief of the clinic staff and to the consternation and edification of the vet. Who knows why the dog became sick on that food, or which ingredient caused the problems. There was no empirical data behind the dog's decline and eventual restoration to health; the original food had never been the subject of recalls or anything like that. But all of us who saw this go from start to finish had no doubt that foods can be a source of problems in dogs. The dobe lived into old age with no further similar problems.

It has been my experience over years of raising Goldens in the 80's & 90's, I had one brood bitch with chronic ear infections caused from yeast infection. Solved the problem with changing food to Natures Recipe Lamb Rice Barley or Chicken rice barley formulas. NO wheat, corn, glutens or brewers yeast, Also used Prozyme.
Canidae is another excellent food that never caused any of my dogs to have ear problems.

Another excellent product line for Yeast Infections is NZYMES from http://www.nzymes.com/store/pc/index.asp especially after using antibiotics.

Again, great ideas everyone. I'm treating with vinegar along with swapping foods and things are looking better. Unless anyone thinks vinegar alone isn't appropriate, I will keep it handy for swim days, even after things clear up completely.

Since all animals including us have yeast infections and they have nothing to do with diet, why does it cause infections on the external body of dogs? I have never understood that. Any time you have an area of the skin that is constantly damp you have the strong possibility of having a yeast infection or mersa but they are caused by bacteria getting into a friendly environment. But I have never heard a doctor say they were connected to diet. What is the difference and how does it work? Dog food and bacteria must be connected somehow. I have had dogs, cats, rabbits, and sheep with ear infections and if you got them clean and disinfected the problem went away but if you didn't you would have to do it again in a week or two. But we never changed feeds.

Ezzy

To Ezzy's point, the fact this post popped up this time of year tells me its more the weather and humidity than anything else.

Also, there is a difference between yeast in the ear wax and a yeast infection in the ear. The latter will have redness and a soft, slimey wax. If the wax is brown but dry, you just need to clean it out.

Scott, try mixing the Blue Stuff instead of vinegar and water. To me putting water in the ear, just doesn't make sense.

mcbosco wrote:To Ezzy's point, the fact this post popped up this time of year tells me its more the weather and humidity than anything else.

Also, there is a difference between yeast in the ear wax and a yeast infection in the ear. The latter will have redness and a soft, slimey wax. If the wax is brown but dry, you just need to clean it out.

Scott, try mixing the Blue Stuff instead of vinegar and water. To me putting water in the ear, just doesn't make sense.

I'm 99% sure you are right.

Ezzy

At an early age, 4 - 5 months old, one of my dogs developed a problem with his right ear. Dark gunky wax and diagnosed yeast infection. My vet told me that problems in the right ear are an indicator of a food allergy/sensitivity. Her suggestion was to switch foods to a food that does not include Corn, Wheat or Chicken and see what happens. I did and it cleared up. I switched back thinking it was a coincidence and the condition returned. Maybe it's not a full blown food allergy but a sensitivity that lowers the immune systems ability to fight off yeast "build-up"..for lack of a better word...causing an infection....?

It is interesting that in many cases one ear is involved. I know dozens of people that went to better, higher protein foods and the condition went away. I think any persistant ear problem needs a diet change for sure. Just think about the cost of ear infections compare to the cost of a better food. There is plenty of evidence that yeast thrives on carbohydrates.

The food is peanuts compared to the money and time spent on ear infections. One trip to the vet is $100, maybe more actually with the disposal fees.

When they pop up in summer often it is just the weather and bad luck.

Petfooddirect now offers free shipping, when you add up tax and gasoline, some of the foods are competitive with the more commonly available brands.

mcbosco wrote:To Ezzy's point, the fact this post popped up this time of year tells me its more the weather and humidity than anything else.

Also, there is a difference between yeast in the ear wax and a yeast infection in the ear. The latter will have redness and a soft, slimey wax. If the wax is brown but dry, you just need to clean it out.

Scott, try mixing the Blue Stuff instead of vinegar and water. To me putting water in the ear, just doesn't make sense.

What is this mystery "Blue Stuff" so many experts speak of? Thanks.

Scott Linden wrote:

mcbosco wrote:To Ezzy's point, the fact this post popped up this time of year tells me its more the weather and humidity than anything else.

Also, there is a difference between yeast in the ear wax and a yeast infection in the ear. The latter will have redness and a soft, slimey wax. If the wax is brown but dry, you just need to clean it out.

Scott, try mixing the Blue Stuff instead of vinegar and water. To me putting water in the ear, just doesn't make sense.

What is this mystery "Blue Stuff" so many experts speak of? Thanks.

Isopropyl alcohol, boric acid and gentain violet. This is a commercial preparation that also contains collodial silver. We use it a lot at our clinics.

http://www.liquidhealthinc.com/prodInte ... ?prodID=32

I have a setter with ear problems that crop up this time of year as well. I mixed up my own potion using, monostat 7 generic from walmart, white vinegar, and witch hazel. 50/50 vinegar, witch hazel with about a tablespoon of the monostat. Hard to get the monostat to mix but got it mixed up enough to squirt into the ear with a syringe.

After he shook his head from the initial treatment, he has not shaken his head since. I will treat him for 3 or 4 days and see if the problem comes back. The weather is going to change so it will be hard to determine if my treatment worked or if the cooler weather fixed the problem.

Scott and others, I have had very good results here with the yogurt. You need to rid the dog of the ear infection first. But once it is cleared up, get the dog on natural yogurt and I really doubt you will have any ear problems. I tried it several years ago and I have not had a dog with a ear yeast infection since. But because I own 7 dogs and train many more I went to Fido-Vite and will not look back. It is a very good product, easy to give to the dogs and won`t spoil like yogurt. Dogs like it and they look great and I actually feed less food because they are utilizing the food more efficiently. I could give many examples of its successes but you can check it out at www.fido-vite.com
Very good product that actually works. I feed a 30/20 year round.

Quailtail: was thinking just this morning that a yeast infection is a yeast infection, whether it's in the ear or um, somewhere more "personal." So, why not the stuff advertised for that problem? Anyone want to weigh in on this?

On my trips to the vet for this issue they prescribed Mometamax. This cleared up the problem. However, you can not buy this product without a prescription.

My setter is the only dog in my kennel that has issues. Pointers have never had a problem. It has to be something with the heat and humidity as it crops up about the same time each year. I have tried to trim the hair around his ears to let more air in but he is hard to hold and trim the hair.

How much yogurt do you feed at a time?

How much yogurt do you feed at a time?

Give the dog a tablespoon on top of his food and stir it in. You will not need a vet for your problem any more.

If you have access to goat's milk, then grab some and make your own yogurt. Amazingly in NJ, I can get it easily, raw, and 24 hours later the yogurt is ready.

You will find it cheaper and easier to give a probiotic powder specifically for dogs. Berte's makes a very good one.