Gun Dog Forum

What do you all consider the ideal fat % for a brittany coming into hunting season and then fall /winter? I feed Orijin with a 38% protein 17% Fat formula and was wondering if I need to increase the Fat? This brand also has a 34% Protein 24% Fat formula, biggest difference is what I feed has no grain at all.

The percent of fat has little to do with the final nutrition as what is important is how much fat is she eating. I think the answer is there really is no percent that is right for all dogs but you will have to decide how much you need to feed to keep each dog in condition along with the other ingredients in your feed.

Ezzy

Your current formula should be fine. If you notice a weight loss increase the amount you feed him. You can up the extra energy level in the feed by tossing an egg in the feed on the days you hunt if you want.

terrym wrote:What do you all consider the ideal fat % for a brittany coming into hunting season and then fall /winter? I feed Orijin with a 38% protein 17% Fat formula and was wondering if I need to increase the Fat? This brand also has a 34% Protein 24% Fat formula, biggest difference is what I feed has no grain at all.

One with 20% but less protein than Orijen. Orijen has a 34/24? Or is it Acana. I have seen Acana performance formula, the one with grain that looks like a superior feed to Orijen.

mcbosco wrote:

terrym wrote:What do you all consider the ideal fat % for a brittany coming into hunting season and then fall /winter? I feed Orijin with a 38% protein 17% Fat formula and was wondering if I need to increase the Fat? This brand also has a 34% Protein 24% Fat formula, biggest difference is what I feed has no grain at all.

One with 20% but less protein than Orijen. Orijen has a 34/24? Or is it Acana. I have seen Acana performance formula, the one with grain that looks like a superior feed to Orijen.

You are correct the other one I was considering is the Acana which is also manufactured by Orijin. Acana is 34/24.

terrym wrote:

mcbosco wrote:

terrym wrote:What do you all consider the ideal fat % for a brittany coming into hunting season and then fall /winter? I feed Orijin with a 38% protein 17% Fat formula and was wondering if I need to increase the Fat? This brand also has a 34% Protein 24% Fat formula, biggest difference is what I feed has no grain at all.

One with 20% but less protein than Orijen. Orijen has a 34/24? Or is it Acana. I have seen Acana performance formula, the one with grain that looks like a superior feed to Orijen.

You are correct the other one I was considering is the Acana which is also manufactured by Orijin. Acana is 34/24.[/quote

I would you use that one. That looks like a better formula for an active high energy dog. It is probably a lot cheaper as well.

here are the specs on the two I'm looking at. I already feed the Orijin.
Acana

Protein ……………………………….33 %
Fat ……………………………………24 %
Fiber …………………………………..3 %
Calcium ……………………………. 1.4 %
Phosphorus ……………………….. 1.1 %
Omega-6…………………………… 2.7 %
Omega-3 ………………………….. 0.4 %
Glucosamine ………………..800 mg/kg
Chondroitin …………………..600 mg/kg

Orijin

Crude protein (min.) 38.0 %
Crude fat (min.) 17.0 %
Crude fiber (max.) 3.0 %
Moisture (max.) 10.0 %
Calcium (min./max.) 1.4 % / 1.6 %
Phosphorus (min./max.) 1.2 % / 1.4 %
Omega-6 (min.) 3.0 %
Omega-3 (min.) 1.1 %
DHA (min.) 0.6 %
EPA (min.) 0.3 %
AA (min.) 0.16 %
Carbohydrate (max.) 25%
Ash (max.) 7.5%
Taurine (min.) 0.35 %
Glucosamine (min.) 1400 mg/kg
Chondroitin (min.) 1000 mg/kg
Microorganisms (min.) 120M cfu/kg
pH 5.5

how much are these foods for how many pounds?

Some of these high end feeds, I believe, are just designed to drain your wallet.

You'd be surprised what some of the highest performing dogs in the country are fed and it aint 50-60+ bucks for 35 lbs.

I feed either 32/25 or 26/18 or a mixture of the two....both diamond natural products. Right now Im feeding the 26/18 and dogs just ran 25 miles yesterday and ready to go again today. Getting a feed they do well on and hold weight is my measuring stick....not price, fancy bags or marketing.

birddog1968 wrote:how much are these foods for how many pounds?

Some of these high end feeds, I believe, are just designed to drain your wallet.

You'd be surprised what some of the highest performing dogs in the country are fed and it aint 50-60+ bucks for 35 lbs.

I feed either 32/25 or 26/18 or a mixture of the two....both diamond natural products. Right now Im feeding the 26/18 and dogs just ran 25 miles yesterday and ready to go again today. Getting a feed they do well on and hold weight is my measuring stick....not price, fancy bags or marketing.

I think everyone wants to economize. Some places prices are different. DEA is $45 a bag locally, not such a great bargain if you have to drive far.

mcbosco wrote:

birddog1968 wrote:how much are these foods for how many pounds?

Some of these high end feeds, I believe, are just designed to drain your wallet.

You'd be surprised what some of the highest performing dogs in the country are fed and it aint 50-60+ bucks for 35 lbs.

I feed either 32/25 or 26/18 or a mixture of the two....both diamond natural products. Right now Im feeding the 26/18 and dogs just ran 25 miles yesterday and ready to go again today. Getting a feed they do well on and hold weight is my measuring stick....not price, fancy bags or marketing.

I think everyone wants to economize. Some places prices are different. DEA is $45 a bag locally, not such a great bargain if you have to drive far.

$45 is just about double what I pay for dog food that does the exact same job for the dogs. The way I figure the other half is to make people feel good when they think they are feeding their dog so much better. Wonder if $45 a bag would make the dogs fly or do they still walk and run on all four?

This is very much like eating at your local cafe or some big famous restaurant. I have never seen where the high priced restaurant provided healthier steaks or pork chops that our local restaurants.
Ezzy

ezzy333 wrote:

mcbosco wrote:

birddog1968 wrote:how much are these foods for how many pounds?

Some of these high end feeds, I believe, are just designed to drain your wallet.

You'd be surprised what some of the highest performing dogs in the country are fed and it aint 50-60+ bucks for 35 lbs.

I feed either 32/25 or 26/18 or a mixture of the two....both diamond natural products. Right now Im feeding the 26/18 and dogs just ran 25 miles yesterday and ready to go again today. Getting a feed they do well on and hold weight is my measuring stick....not price, fancy bags or marketing.

I think everyone wants to economize. Some places prices are different. DEA is $45 a bag locally, not such a great bargain if you have to drive far.

$45 is just about double what I pay for dog food that does the exact same job for the dogs. The way I figure the other half is to make people feel good when they think they are feeding their dog so much better. Wonder if $45 a bag would make the dogs fly or do they still walk and run on all four?

This is very much like eating at your local cafe or some big famous restaurant. I have never seen where the high priced restaurant provided healthier steaks or pork chops that our local restaurants.
Ezzy

You don't understand what I am trying to say. The prior post suggested that Diamond Extreme Athlete was a bargain, maybe for him, but not for everyone.

Im really not pointing out any brand only price point.....And if your being quoted 45 for EA than your feed source is gouging you , which doesn't surprise me in New Jersey. EA is 34 a bag here just one state to the south, Naturals Chix and rice is 28, both 40 lb bags.

Now with the OP being in Canada i am betting he can find the same choices albeit different brands......fact is you dont have to pay big money (2/lb) for a quality feed.

EDIT- upon search of northern new jersey tractor supply company website DEA is a dollar more than DelMarVa prices.....If your feed supplier is quoting you 45 i would look for a new crook...errrr....supplier.


PS....it would be very interesting to see what the OP could get Diamond products for price wise in Ontario. Diamond list many retailers in and around Bradford Ontario.

I only feed one dog which is a Britt ( who eats about 3 cups a day )so the price really isn't too big a deal. Just trying to use the best option. I won't tell ya what the Orijin costs to save this site from overheating .......LoL ! Don't drink or smoke so gotta have something to blow it on.

mcbosco wrote:
You don't understand what I am trying to say. The prior post suggested that Diamond Extreme Athlete was a bargain, maybe for him, but not for everyone.

Hope you remember this when you start quoting prices again and how economical some of the ridiculously high price feeds are. Most of the dogs in this country are just fed a common good feed while the feeds you keep talking about are basically priced for those who think of them selves as elitist and paying more makes them feel really good. Too bad we all don't just buy what is good for the dogs. I can guarantee we can line up all of the dogs in the country and you won't have a clue what each eats or see a difference in condition and health based on what they eat. And I am sure that more people are beginning to think about the cost now.

Ezzy

ezzy333 wrote:

mcbosco wrote:
You don't understand what I am trying to say. The prior post suggested that Diamond Extreme Athlete was a bargain, maybe for him, but not for everyone.

Hope you remember this when you start quoting prices again and how economical some of the ridiculously high price feeds are. Most of the dogs in this country are just fed a common good feed while the feeds you keep talking about are basically priced for those who think of them selves as elitist and paying more makes them feel really good. Too bad we all don't just buy what is good for the dogs. I can guarantee we can line up all of the dogs in the country and you won't have a clue what each eats or see a difference in condition and health based on what they eat. And I am sure that more people are beginning to think about the cost now.

Ezzy

Do you still not understand my point? Rather than act like a jackass start from the top and read until the bottom.

How is that? Perhaps you will learn something.

." Most of the dogs in this country are just fed a common good feed while the feeds you keep talking about are basically priced for those who think of them selves as elitist and paying more makes them feel really good. "
ezzy333

You know spending an extra $5 bucks a week doesn't change my life much so if that makes me an "elitist" then i guess it is what it is. But honestly I don't buy into the most expensive is always best either. And no , spending money doesn't make me "feel good" but doesn't make me crazy either.

well i dont know if im an elitist or not, maybe, but i do know that when i look or looked for a dog food for my dogs i looked for the "best" i could find and didnt look at the price..what i mean by the "best" is by the ingredients AND i like if its a feed ive seen other dogs on that shows me it gives good results..granted, i know all dogs are different and may have different results BUT some results are more obvious then others..for example, i am in touch with 4 other people from my dogs litter and honestly he is the nicest, most healthy looking, biggest dog out of those dogs..i get compliments ALL the time on his build, his coat, and his behavior because he is on a good food and gets yogurt, vitamins (visorbits), and lots of training and exercise (balance) where as if i had him on a diet with not enough proteins and if it contained only empty calories (which he would leave in the back yard) and he didnt get the vitamins and exercise he would no doubt in my mind be a different looking, behaving dog..i dont buy the fact you can take 2 dogs that were cloned (so they would be exactly the same) and feed one a good food like proplan or loyal and the other one mainstay or ol'roy and they would both work the field all day, have the same energy, build the same muscle and both have the same "output" in the backyard..basically my thing is, i can live on dollar burgers for the rest of my life from mcdonalds, it will keep me alive sure, BUT having some chicken, some veggies, some fruit and a vitamin a day is going to serve my body alot better, i will have more energy, be more fit, my organs will be much better off and i will live longer..with all we expect from our dogs when we train and hunt, with paying hundreds of dollars for them to start with and hundreds if not thousands on items to hunt them with why on earth would you give any less then the best you can when it comes to their diet??..and i can guarantee you the reason those dog foods with no meat/protein sources withing the first 5 ingredients or the ones with corn and wheat ect as main ingredients that are cheaper yes are big sellers, why?? because the economy sucks for people and feeding the kids is more of a priority (as it should be) so the dog gets what you can afford which may be 15 dollars a bag, BUT if you have the money to do better for your dog most people who can, will...jmo...ruth

ezzy333 wrote: Hope you remember this when you start quoting prices again and how economical some of the ridiculously high price feeds are. Most of the dogs in this country are just fed a common good feed while the feeds you keep talking about are basically priced for those who think of them selves as elitist and paying more makes them feel really good. Too bad we all don't just buy what is good for the dogs. I can guarantee we can line up all of the dogs in the country and you won't have a clue what each eats or see a difference in condition and health based on what they eat. And I am sure that more people are beginning to think about the cost now.
Ezzy

Don't you realize that folks are trying to do the best they can for their dogs when they ask about foods or additives? What's it to you if they can afford to spend a little more? What's it to you if they limit their budgets elsewhere to purchase a food theat their dog does better on? Dog food snobbery goes two ways - it can be turning your nose up at anything but the most expensive pormulations, or it can be refusing to feed anything but the cheapest available and insisting that everyone else is some kind of idiot for doing otherwise.

I take it you have been involved somehow in the dog food manufacturing process. It's great that you have some inside info and experience to share. However, some of us also have experience in areas that allows us to see the effects of various dog foods; and all of us have experience in feeding our own dogs. I know when my dogs improve in health and/or performance with a change in diet; that's something you can't see from your side of the keyboard. When someone recommends a food, it's up to the other owners here to decide whether or not that choice suits their situations. If they decide to go less expensive, that's fine; if they decide to try something more expensive that doesn't make them a a dog food snob or an idiot, either one.

Folks here share what their experience is with different dog food formulations. What's the difference between pushing a favorite expensive brand or the lower cost stuff?

shags wrote:

ezzy333 wrote: Hope you remember this when you start quoting prices again and how economical some of the ridiculously high price feeds are. Most of the dogs in this country are just fed a common good feed while the feeds you keep talking about are basically priced for those who think of them selves as elitist and paying more makes them feel really good. Too bad we all don't just buy what is good for the dogs. I can guarantee we can line up all of the dogs in the country and you won't have a clue what each eats or see a difference in condition and health based on what they eat. And I am sure that more people are beginning to think about the cost now.
Ezzy

Don't you realize that folks are trying to do the best they can for their dogs when they ask about foods or additives? What's it to you if they can afford to spend a little more? What's it to you if they limit their budgets elsewhere to purchase a food theat their dog does better on? Dog food snobbery goes two ways - it can be turning your nose up at anything but the most expensive pormulations, or it can be refusing to feed anything but the cheapest available and insisting that everyone else is some kind of idiot for doing otherwise.

I take it you have been involved somehow in the dog food manufacturing process. It's great that you have some inside info and experience to share. However, some of us also have experience in areas that allows us to see the effects of various dog foods; and all of us have experience in feeding our own dogs. I know when my dogs improve in health and/or performance with a change in diet; that's something you can't see from your side of the keyboard. When someone recommends a food, it's up to the other owners here to decide whether or not that choice suits their situations. If they decide to go less expensive, that's fine; if they decide to try something more expensive that doesn't make them a a dog food snob or an idiot, either one.

Folks here share what their experience is with different dog food formulations. What's the difference between pushing a favorite expensive brand or the lower cost stuff?

Good post and there really isn't much difference in pushing any certain feed. That's why I don't do it. I have tried to inform and then tell people to pick what works for them and their dog. Like I have said,there are a thousand good feeds on the market. Pick what you like.

Ezy

Having managed money, started businesses and fixed busted up businesses I can tell you one thing, expense and cash flow are two differnet things. I see all these dogs the moderator talks about, yes they eat common foods but about 75% of them have bad teeth that will lead to very expensive vet bills down the road.

So it is quite simple, do you spend another $50 - 75 a year on better food or several thousand dollars on cleanings and extractions.

If one doesn't care about a rotting mouth and horrible breath that is fine, feed cheap.

I will admit my dog is not the best trained animal in the field, but rarely does someone not ask what he eats or comment on his coat or muscle tone.

So for less than what Pro Plan costs, I have made the right decision.

For the good of the forum, the moderator should do just that rather than dictate.

I grew up with a lab that lived to be almost 17 she had no rotting teeth and looked great, got pictures to prove that.....guess what she was on all her life...... Old Roy.

Not that I'd feed Old Roy now but i noticed none of what you suggest on the very cheapest food.

birddog1968 wrote:I grew up with a lab that lived to be almost 17 she had no rotting teeth and looked great, got pictures to prove that.....guess what she was on all her life...... Old Roy.

Not that I'd feed Old Roy now but i noticed none of what you suggest on the very cheapest food.

I haven't either but Sal has said that before many times. He must have had some dogs he was feeding cheap feed to that had bad breath and plaque on the teeth. :roll: I have found that it has nothing to do with the food but depends more on the PH in the mouth and that varies from dog to dog. I do not like to feed the dry food wet as it seems this can make the problem worst. But I probably don't know too much about it as I have never had a dog with a tooth problem let alone, requiring vet attention.

Ezzy

I love dog food threads. It's like hitting rewind and play and rewind and play.... constantly the most entertaining threads with the exact same arguments. But make sure you feed grain free.

mcbosco wrote:

ezzy333 wrote:

mcbosco wrote:
You don't understand what I am trying to say. The prior post suggested that Diamond Extreme Athlete was a bargain, maybe for him, but not for everyone.

Hope you remember this when you start quoting prices again and how economical some of the ridiculously high price feeds are. Most of the dogs in this country are just fed a common good feed while the feeds you keep talking about are basically priced for those who think of them selves as elitist and paying more makes them feel really good. Too bad we all don't just buy what is good for the dogs. I can guarantee we can line up all of the dogs in the country and you won't have a clue what each eats or see a difference in condition and health based on what they eat. And I am sure that more people are beginning to think about the cost now.

Ezzy

Do you still not understand my point? Rather than act like a jackass start from the top and read until the bottom.

How is that? Perhaps you will learn something.

I think the board needs to start a Mcbosco section and a Ezzy section that way each one has a place to tell eveyone how much they know and we won't have to read the back and forth of " you don't know _ _ _ _" "Oh yes I do know _ _ _ _"

No need to start a new section. You have the option to not view the post

[I think the board needs to start a Mcbosco section and a Ezzy section that way each one has a place to tell eveyone how much they know and we won't have to read the back and forth of " you don't know _ _ _ _" "Oh yes I do know _ _ _ _"[/quote]

Aren't you a sales rep? You have a financial interest in your opinions, right?

As I often say, "most working dogs do well on most good feeds." Isn't it nice to have a voice of reason on this forum, namely me?

There are no doubt dogs just like humans who have a sensitivity to certain ingredients and chemicals, but I assume the percentage is very small. Certainly, different dogs, even in the same breeds, have different needs based on a different metabolic rate and a different level of exercise.

I do believe that in most parts of the country, it is silly to pay more than 75 cents a pound for a very good feed, but that's just me.

Native Level 3 Dog Food

Guaranteed Analysis

Protein (min) 30.0%
Fat (min) 20.0%
Crude Fiber (max) 3.5%
Moisture (max) 10.00%
Omega-6 Fatty Acids (min) 3.5%
Omega-3 Fatty Acids (min) 0.45%

Calorie Content: 4409 kcal ME / kg (2000 kcal ME / lb)
________________________________________________________

My 2.5 year old GSP has been on this food since she was weaned off her dam.
Her stools are solid, her teeth are clean, she never appears to be out of energy when training for or running
in field trials. Her muscle tone is tremendous. She eats 3.5 cups/day during the off season, 4 cups/day on days we
train hard & 4.5 cups/day on days she spends afield.

I get Native LEvel 3 dog food for roughly $1/a lb.

=======================================================================
By comparison, here is the analysis for Purina ProPlan :

Crude Protein (Min) 30.0 %
Crude Fat (Min) 20.0 %
Crude Fiber (Max) 3.0 %
Moisture (Max) 12.0 %
Linoleic Acid (Min) 1.8 %
Calcium (Ca) (Min) 0.9 %
Phosphorus (P) (Min) 0.7 %
Selenium (Se) (Min) 0.30 mg/kg
Vitamin A (Min) 15,000 IU/kg
Vitamin E (Min) 500 IU/kg
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can folks chime in here and share with us what they pay for ProPlan in their part of the country?
As I really don't know.

Rob

I get PPPP at tractor supply it is $42.99 maybe 44$.
I just saw it a one of the pet stores for $39.99 These are 40lb bags.
Purina Pro Plan per formance, has omegas also not sure of the levels.

40# bags are these new?

Hey Rob, I just recently paid $51 and change (tax included) for my last bag of Native. That's $5 more than the last bag I bought. Wonder if that is true where you are?

Native Level 3 is $1lb at my store, ironically both 1 & 2 are more expensive.

mcbosco wrote:Native Level 3 is $1lb at my store, ironically both 1 & 2 are more expensive.

How recent is that price? The place I get it just raised their price in the last couple of weeks and I'm seeing Level 3 online for mid to upper $40's for #40.

Chaingang wrote:Hey Rob, I just recently paid $51 and change (tax included) for my last bag of Native. That's $5 more than the last bag I bought. Wonder if that is true where you are?

Tom,
I purchase my Native food at a local Hardware store via the "Do it Best" network.
I just picked up two, 40lb. bags about two weeks ago........ they were $41.99 each.

Maybe I'll get hit with the price increase next time around? :roll:

Hope all is well with you & Wili....... I just looked at the more recent picture of him- he and Katy could be
brother & sister............. oh yeah- they're both Top Gun dogs!

Rob

Hey Rob, just checked out your Perfect Ped. page and looks like you and Katy have dived head first into the Field Trial game. Looks like you have done well with her. Willi is just a "meat" dog and that is all I really wanted out of him. He does well and I certainly got more than I expected when I got him.

Tom

Tom,
Don't forget- I owe it all to you........... as you were the one who referred me to Steve in the first place!
Katy is doing pretty well. It took me this summer to really 'get her right' in terms of being broke out.......
so I thought. Yesterday, I ran her in an AGD stake at Flaherty in CT and all was in order with her first find.
On her second find (and she was rolling real good up to that point), the bird flushed and did a U-turn about
1 foot over Katy's head- she got happy feet and took some steps....... I picked her up before the judge said a word.
Just can't let her get away with that stuff at this point. Back to the drawing board this afternoon.

Have a safe & enjoyable "meat" season.

And just to bring this hijack full circle, how about everyone clink on the link below
and find the food you feed your dogs:

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/

Rob

mcbosco wrote:[I think the board needs to start a Mcbosco section and a Ezzy section that way each one has a place to tell eveyone how much they know and we won't have to read the back and forth of " you don't know _ _ _ _" "Oh yes I do know _ _ _ _"

Aren't you a sales rep? You have a financial interest in your opinions, right?[/quote]


It's a joke.... JEEZ...

You two crack me up everytime a food question is asked..

mcbosco wrote:[I think the board needs to start a Mcbosco section and a Ezzy section that way each one has a place to tell eveyone how much they know and we won't have to read the back and forth of " you don't know _ _ _ _" "Oh yes I do know _ _ _ _"

Aren't you a sales rep? You have a financial interest in your opinions, right?[/quote]


Also what does this have to do with me and my job? The only opinion was that you two are a like two dogs

big steve46 wrote:As I often say, "most working dogs do well on most good feeds." Isn't it nice to have a voice of reason on this forum, namely me?

There are no doubt dogs just like humans who have a sensitivity to certain ingredients and chemicals, but I assume the percentage is very small. Certainly, different dogs, even in the same breeds, have different needs based on a different metabolic rate and a different level of exercise.

I do believe that in most parts of the country, it is silly to pay more than 75 cents a pound for a very good feed, but that's just me.

And me.

Charlie

Funny how some of you think. I guess you have never seen a dog develop an allergy to grain?? I "bleep" near lost two dogs to a wheat allergy (feed Loyall) and will never feed a kibble with any grain in it again. Meat costs money and the high end foods have a ton more than anything on the market. Looking at the money I spend on training, gas, pups, and hunting in general, feed cost is the least of my concerns. My dogs look much better than they ever did on any feed with grain in it.

Razor wrote:Funny how some of you think. I guess you have never seen a dog develop an allergy to grain?? I "bleep" near lost two dogs to a wheat allergy (feed Loyall) and will never feed a kibble with any grain in it again. Meat costs money and the high end foods have a ton more than anything on the market. Looking at the money I spend on training, gas, pups, and hunting in general, feed cost is the least of my concerns. My dogs look much better than they ever did on any feed with grain in it.

I tend to agree with you on the cost of food in the big picture, but truth be told common proteins like chicken, beef and eggs cause close to 75% of allergic reactions not grains. Now in the case of wheat, you are right. Wheat and wheat gluten are bad ingredients but not many foods have any wheat at all.

Keep your eyes peeled (no pun intended) because you will start to see reactions to potatoes reported as well. That train is coming. I also predict that potato consumption will create an uptick in diabetes.

Your dogs probably look better because they are eating more and better quality protein and more fat, less carbohydrate overall. That is the key.

I agree with you. I feed Instinct right now.

I feed Purina Performance and have no idea if it is any good. I don't eat it, the dog does. She hasn't complained and never quits in the field so I guess I am good to go. Please make some comments to keep the thread going. ;o)

I feed Diamond and have seen that feed at the big box stores for twice what I pay at my local feed mill. Check around you'll find the big pet stores just rape us because they can.