Stapled dog up in the field. Infection question.

romeo212000 · Post by **romeo212000** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:48 pm

Had my 2.5 year old shorthair run through a barbed wire fence today on a retrieve. It was my fault for putting the bird too close to it. Anyways she cut herself on her right front leg, slightly on the inside. Cut is about 2.5" long at most and not super deep with only maybe a couple of centimers of dead space on either side of the cut. I had another dog get basically an identical injury earlier this year and watched the vet fix him up so I felt pretty comfortable doctoring her up in the field.

First thing I did it rinse the wound with saline, and then gently try to scrub the wound with a soft cloth to loosen any debris stuck in the tissue. It looked like ther was some grass dirt etc. in there and maybe some tiny seeds. Not sure if they were just little dirt balls or if they were little bity seeds, but I got as many out as possible. I then poured hydrogen peroxide over the wound and let it clean for a couple of minutes. Flushed the wound again with saline, and picked whatever else I could find out, and cleaned again with peroxide. I used the staple gun to close the wound allowing a little drain space if necessary and then gently covered it in vet wrap, and then a little tape on that. I explained all this to my vet and he said he thought everything sounded good. I also gave her some antibiotics I get from him the last time and will do so for the next four days, as well as Rymadil as an anti-inflammatory.

My question is whether you guys could think of something I missed, but more importantly the possible implications of closing even the tiniest seed in the wound I might have missed. The only things out there are lots of Ragwee, some Lovegrass, and some broomweed. Again I got as much as I could see, but seeds still make me nervous.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:07 pm

Four days is not a full course of antibiotics.

romeo212000 · Post by **romeo212000** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:14 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:Four days is not a full course of antibiotics.

Apparently it's a pretty stout antibiotic, and that's what I was told by the vet. What would you recommend?

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:30 pm

Regardless of strength, I've never had a vet advise less than a week and it's usually ten to fourteen days for most antibiotics. There will still be necrotic tissue debriding after four days and antibiotics are not residual. Personally, I'd use a topical, also, like Vetericyn or Zn7.

Post by **Sharon** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:08 am

Sorry about your dog. Sounds like you did a good job except : throw out the hydrogen peroxide. It should be used on an open wound as it inhibits healing. Several new studies on peroxide limit its' use to the point of " just don't use it on wounds". It still can be used to get a dog to vomit .
You can buy an antiseptic wash in the drugstore.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:45 am

Sharon wrote:Sorry about your dog. Sounds like you did a good job except : throw out the hydrogen peroxide. It should be used on an open wound as it inhibits healing. Several new studies on peroxide limit its' use to the point of " just don't use it on wounds". It still can be used to get a dog to vomit .
You can buy an antiseptic wash in the drugstore.

Hydrogen peroxide is still recommended as a cleaning agent like he used it. It is not recommended as a sterizing agent for repeat usage to keep the wound clean.

I have never heard of more than five days for an antibiotic for a dog. Think I would go with the vets recommendation and not what someone says on the net.

JMO

Ezzy

Post by **Sharon** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:15 pm

Not according to my vet. She is very firm on the use of hydrogen peroxide.

My dog just finished 10 days of antibiotic for a wound in the eye lid.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:22 pm

We use Betadine, but I've never been given less than a ten day course of any antibiotic, plus instructions to continue if there is any inflammation. When Casey had a necrotic histoma removed, he was given two weeks' worth.

dog dr · Post by **dog dr** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:39 pm

let me see if i have this straight. you guys get suspicious and half insulted because the vets want to vaccinate your dogs every year (they are just padding their pockets, right?) but as soon as one recommends 14 days of antibiotics for something that probably didnt need them anyway, you take their advice as gospel truth. i love this forum!

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:45 pm

I figure I pay someone several hundred bucks to put over forty stitches and a couple dozen staples in a dog, I might want to follow their instructions and leave the liability on them, you know.

dog dr · Post by **dog dr** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:30 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:I figure I pay someone several hundred bucks to put over forty stitches and a couple dozen staples in a dog, I might want to follow their instructions and leave the liability on them, you know.

makes sense to me. on the other hand, either your getting ripped off, or i'm not charging enough!

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:00 pm

dog dr wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:I figure I pay someone several hundred bucks to put over forty stitches and a couple dozen staples in a dog, I might want to follow their instructions and leave the liability on them, you know.
makes sense to me. on the other hand, either your getting ripped off, or i'm not charging enough!

The bill was $350+ and the procedure took over an hour and a half because the mass ruptured. The dog had a pre-op for anesthesia tolerance and I believe was intubated. A friend who had abcesses excised on an elderly dog had a bill of over half a grand. These are private practice vets, not corporate. The prices are average for the area. You might want to shop some of the other clinics in your area because you may be cutting yourself out of a reasonable mark up.

dog dr · Post by **dog dr** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:12 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:
dog dr wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:I figure I pay someone several hundred bucks to put over forty stitches and a couple dozen staples in a dog, I might want to follow their instructions and leave the liability on them, you know.
makes sense to me. on the other hand, either your getting ripped off, or i'm not charging enough!
The bill was $350+ and the procedure took over an hour and a half because the mass ruptured. The dog had a pre-op for anesthesia tolerance and I believe was intubated. A friend who had abcesses excised on an elderly dog had a bill of over half a grand. These are private practice vets, not corporate. The prices are average for the area. You might want to shop some of the other clinics in your area because you may be cutting yourself out of a reasonable mark up.

aah. i understand now. i was assuming it was stitches for some simple lacerations (dog fight, hit by car, etc.) remember that thing that happens when you assume?? happens to me ALL the time!

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:35 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:I figure I pay someone several hundred bucks to put over forty stitches and a couple dozen staples in a dog, I might want to follow their instructions and leave the liability on them, you know.

I believe you are right but I find it interesting that anyone else who has a vet tell them what to do you are the first one to chime in and say thats wrong. Just don't think you can have it both ways but I'm probably wrong.

And then you claim a bill of 350 is average for a few stitches till challenged and then we find out it was for a lot more than a few stitches.

You make it impossible to know which of your statements to believe and which to not.

Ezzy

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:38 pm

If it's an STD can't the dog be cured with one day of antibiotics?

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:11 pm

@ dog dr, It's never simple with my bunch. Example, my then six year old got a razor type cut off sheet metal (?) on his shoulder. Merely a flesh wound and I cleaned it and glued it. He removed the glue with extreme prejudice resulting in muscle tearing and requiring 36 stitches in two layers and a dozen staples on top. $183 on that one and they didn't knock him out. The bill did include the meds and probably a surcharge for listening to him bark all afternoon.

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:20 pm

My experience with vets (and it has been extensive in the last couple of years) is similar to CC's. 10 days for antibiotics and suggestion to use betadine or iodine instead of hydrogen peroxide for wound cleaning. My sis, long ago, has ceased using hydrogen peroxide on her horses because it creates "proud flesh." I've followed suit with my dogs and been perfectly happy with the betadine solution - it doesn't bubble like the hydrogen peroxide so it's not as fun to watch, but it seems to work fine.

CHJIII · Post by **CHJIII** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:38 pm

I'd go with CC's recomendation..........hmmmmmmmm

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:41 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:I figure I pay someone several hundred bucks to put over forty stitches and a couple dozen staples in a dog, I might want to follow their instructions and leave the liability on them, you know.
I believe you are right but I find it interesting that anyone else who has a vet tell them what to do you are the first one to chime in and say thats wrong. Just don't think you can have it both ways but I'm probably wrong.

And then you claim a bill of 350 is average for a few stitches till challenged and then we find out it was for a lot more than a few stitches.

You make it impossible to know which of your statements to believe and which to not.

Ezzy

Can you read? Even without knowing that the dog was intubated/etc $350 doesn't seem out of line in our area for 40 stitches and several dozen staples as she said in the post you quoted. Plus in my experience the vet bill also includes the meds I leave with, you know, the antibiotics...

CHJIII · Post by **CHJIII** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:44 pm

This just makes me think that we need a new dog food thread................................

postoakshorthairs · Post by **postoakshorthairs** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:47 pm

I can't speak for veterinary medicine but in the ED setting for humans the use of peroxide and/or betadine in open wounds ceased several years ago. There were some studies that peroxide was no more beneficial than tap water at loosening debris or cleaning wounds. Both solutions harm healthy cells and impede wound healing. We have used saline based surfactants for as long as I can remember..or just plain saline. I would use tap water to make sure to get it clean if i was going to staple it. If peroxide was all I had available I would use it for sure because you need to clean the wound out before you close it.

Antibiotic therapy depends on what antibiotic your giving among other things.

jlp8cornell · Post by **jlp8cornell** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:49 pm

There are a ton of studies that show H202 is not an effective anti-bacterial plus it irritates healthy cells. Plain soapy water works well. I use Nolvason solution. Either way, then use an antibitoic ointment.

As far as a course of antibiotics, 10-14 days. 4? No.

Post by **Sharon** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:01 pm

Chukar12 wrote:If it's an STD can't the dog be cured with one day of antibiotics?

Are you just being funny? Dogs don't get STDs, only stupid humans do.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:08 pm

Sharon wrote:
Chukar12 wrote:If it's an STD can't the dog be cured with one day of antibiotics?
Are you just being funny? Dogs don't get STDs, only stupid humans do.

If that is true why do we test for brucellosis before breeding the female?

Ezzy

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:50 pm

My intention was to be funny but I am not confident enough to put it to a vote .

Post by **Sharon** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:06 am

ezzy333 wrote:
Sharon wrote:
Chukar12 wrote:If it's an STD can't the dog be cured with one day of antibiotics?
Are you just being funny? Dogs don't get STDs, only stupid humans do.
If that is true why do we test for brucellosis before breeding the female?

Ezzy

Hmmm Very interesting. i never though of brucellosis as an STD, but you're right.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:54 am

I would consider any disease transmitted by sex as an STD.Brucellosis I don't believe is curerable.

Chaingang · Post by **Chaingang** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:41 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
Sharon wrote: I have never heard of more than five days for an antibiotic for a dog. Think I would go with the vets recommendation and not what someone says on the net.

JMO

Ezzy

I agree go with your vet's recommendation. It really depends on what kind of infection and antibiotic used when talking about a course of antibiotics. Some skin infections may require 10 days give or take. Prostate infections in particular are stubborn and often require up to a month, in some cases longer to get rid of.

Post by **Sharon** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:04 pm

Chaingang wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:
Sharon wrote: I have never heard of more than five days for an antibiotic for a dog. Think I would go with the vets recommendation and not what someone says on the net.

JMO

Ezzy
I agree go with your vet's recommendation. It really depends on what kind of infection and antibiotic used when talking about a course of antibiotics. Some skin infections may require 10 days give or take. Prostate infections in particular are stubborn and often require up to a month, in some cases longer to get rid of.

Who said what here? I never said what I am quoted as saying.

Klondike · Post by **Klondike** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:33 pm

My vet is a working man's vet. After two outings at $200 a piece I asked him what to do. He took me on line to Revival Animal Health and told me to order the following items. Of course I am not a vet, he suggested that if I need to practice with the stapler grab a piece of venison and stapel it up. It is really a very easy process. The big problem was the antibiotics. They are expensive and you need a prescription. He told me to buy this fish antibioitc that is used for skin infections on aquarium fish. He told me it will work great and is basically the same stuff (Go BIG governemnt). Make sure you pay attention to the amount of the dosage, that is the most important piece. I agree with the other posts...10 days is pretty much a standard treatment on antibiotics. I also use EMT spray on the surface, it is good stuff and comes in a gel as well. The dogs are not supposed to lick it...but they still do. If you have a cone I suggest you use one as well. There is not to many spots a dog cannot reach with this tongue

dan v · Post by **dan v** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:42 am

Chukar12 wrote:My intention was to be funny but I am not confident enough to put it to a vote .

Oh, yur funny alright....just not in the "haha" sort of way.

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