Would you feed horsemeat?

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:55 pm

HR 2112 has been signed with no restrictions on horse processing.

cjuve · Post by **cjuve** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:38 pm

Yes..... People eat a lot of it in Europe

Dirtysteve · Post by **Dirtysteve** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:44 pm

Yes as long as it wasn't mine your feeding

cjuve · Post by **cjuve** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:46 pm

Dirtysteve wrote:Yes as long as it wasn't mine your feeding

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:07 pm

It all depends on the quality of the meat and what types of medication the horse was given. I would not unless the horse was raised for the purpose of providing meat, like any other animal.

Years ago that is how horses were disposed of, canned dog food.

Post by **topher40** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:56 pm

Go to waste or feed it, I would feed it! Thank God there is a market again for horses, that only helps folks that are trying to sell quality animals. I feed old chickens that I wont eat, turkeys, deer, rabbit meat, ect. Why not horse meat is the better question? lkjdfaienlkjnslkjndflksjdf iieurpowerkjkn df..............Sorry my fingers got "glued" together!

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:08 pm

You are all too young to remember when it was sold in the butcher shops and grocery stores. It is just another example of changes made and the younger people have never experienced the way things were. I can't think of a single reason not to eat it. I do understand people not wanting their horses slaughtered but it sure is wasteful and a lot less humane than the way it used to be done. Medications would be of no more concern that any other meat or product.

Ezzy

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:04 am

Horses at the track and at show stables are given lots of things labelled "Not for Animals Intended for Consumption" so someone must be concerned.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:42 am

I was on an archery forum about a year ago and someone posted how they shot two wild horses and stated that's what they feed their dog year round... pretty cool stuff.

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:46 am

mcbosco wrote:Horses at the track and at show stables are given lots of things labelled "Not for Animals Intended for Consumption" so someone must be concerned.

I was gonna say I've seen many labels that say the same thing...

That said, I'd buy a feed with it in it, but wouldn't kill/butcher them. (I kill and butcher lots of other stuff)

I'm a horse guy to an extent, and my god children whom I'm VERY close to are very much horse people. Just to attached to horses...

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:27 pm

There are lots of drugs that have that warning on them. But they all have a time limit as to how long you have to wait for the drug to clear out of the system or occasionally the meat. They are used on most animals when they need it and people too. Same with chemicals used on vegetables. Some have no withdrawal date but many do. All sulfa products do as an example and they are used on baby pigs and calf's when they are young and needed. Some have a 30 day limit as the longest that I can remember for withdrawal before slaughtering.

Ezzy

Big Dave · Post by **Big Dave** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:09 pm

I can remember my Dad feeding Joy canned horsemeat mixed with their dry kibble when I was a kid.

wems2371 · Post by **wems2371** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:20 pm

I've had horses all my life and my answer is yes. My mother-in-law gave me grief a while back for selling a couple horses (not for slaughter) and how could I do such a thing. I told her that while a few horses in my life have been pets, many have been under the category of livestock. Since I said livestock, she then moved on to the--you wouldn't eat them would you? I said it wouldn't be out of the question. Oh, the mock horrified look she gave. I reminded her that pigs are thought to be highly intelligent animals that many have made pets out of. All this occurred while we were eating ribs at Famous Daves. :roll:

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:34 pm

Wems that made me think of this joke about a woman that had a sick cat she ask her vet to stop in take a look at it.The vet examined the cat & says nothing to worry about she's just pregnant,the womam replies but doc how can that be no tom cats around here & about that time a big tom cat craws out from under the couch.The doc points & says what about that one,she replies OH doc! but that's her brother!!
Don''t know why horse meat made me think of a cat joke other then maybe the look the vet probably would give that reply might be the same look your mother gave you.Just struck me funny!!

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:53 pm

ezzy333 wrote:There are lots of drugs that have that warning on them. But they all have a time limit as to how long you have to wait for the drug to clear out of the system or occasionally the meat. They are used on most animals when they need it and people too. Same with chemicals used on vegetables. Some have no withdrawal date but many do. All sulfa products do as an example and they are used on baby pigs and calf's when they are young and needed. Some have a 30 day limit as the longest that I can remember for withdrawal before slaughtering.

Ezzy

That is all true but that is not how horse recycling works. I have called the "man" myself, the same guy that takes the manure to the mushroom farmer. His name was Bunchie. Without fail he had an open quart of Miller in the front seat. Many farms near me will opt to euthanize and bury them rather than send them off that way.

If horses were grazed and ranched for food well then that is fine, but that will never happen. I don't think anyone will know or care what was in these animals or how they were treated when the spike goes through their skulls.

I don't think many pet food companies will take the PR risk of putting horse meat in dog food.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:22 pm

I think you will find the horse slaughtering plants are inspected just like any other plant and if the meat is sold to a grocery store it has to have been inspected so you have two layers of protection. And most drugs would be gone from the tissue quite rapidly. Absolutrly no difference than any other meat.

Ezzy

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:25 pm

ezzy333 wrote:I think you will find the horse slaughtering plants are inspected just like any other plant and if the meat is sold to a grocery store it has to have been inspected so you have two layers of protection. And most drugs would be gone from the tissue quite rapidly. Absolutrly no difference than any other meat.

Ezzy

It's going to be a lot different when it comes to public perception...

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:31 pm

ACooper wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:I think you will find the horse slaughtering plants are inspected just like any other plant and if the meat is sold to a grocery store it has to have been inspected so you have two layers of protection. And most drugs would be gone from the tissue quite rapidly. Absolutrly no difference than any other meat.

Ezzy
It's going to be a lot different when it comes to public perception...

You got that right. Most have no idea it was common fare back in the 40's. As an example I can't believe this question if you would feed horsemeat, Why wouldn't you would be a better question.

Ezzy

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:41 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
ACooper wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:I think you will find the horse slaughtering plants are inspected just like any other plant and if the meat is sold to a grocery store it has to have been inspected so you have two layers of protection. And most drugs would be gone from the tissue quite rapidly. Absolutrly no difference than any other meat.

Ezzy
It's going to be a lot different when it comes to public perception...
You got that right. Most have no idea it was common fare back in the 40's. As an example I can't believe this question if you would feed horsemeat, Why wouldn't you would be a better question.

Ezzy

If you don't believe the question, why have you repeatedly responded to it? :roll:

Andy is right. It is about perception. I don't think the majority of dog food buyers would purchase a product with horsemeat specified in the ingredients. If it becomes widely available as a dog food ingredient, it will likely be generically labled. The pet parent public will buy bunnies, and Bambi, but not Black Beauty.

cjuve · Post by **cjuve** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:19 pm

Andy is right. It is about perception. I don't think the majority of dog food buyers would purchased a product with horsemeat specified in the ingredients. If it becomes widely available as a dog food ingredient, it will likely be generically labled. The pet parent public will buy bunnies, and Bambi, but not Black Beauty.

I would as long as it is certified 100% Nevada wild horse........ They do more damage around here than what people might think!

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:27 pm

It's going to be a lot different when it comes to public perception...

You got that right. Most have no idea it was common fare back in the 40's. As an example I can't believe this question if you would feed horsemeat, Why wouldn't you would be a better question.

Ezzy

If you don't believe the question, why have you repeatedly responded to it? :roll:

Andy is right. It is about perception. I don't think the majority of dog food buyers would purchased a product with horsemeat specified in the ingredients. If it becomes widely available as a dog food ingredient, it will likely be generically labled. The pet parent public will buy bunnies, and Bambi, but not Black Beauty.

I didn't say I don't believe it but said I don't believe anyone would ask it. And I answered it because someone asked it. you sure it was repeatedly or was that a slight exageration. :roll:

Ezzy

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:32 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
ACooper wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:I think you will find the horse slaughtering plants are inspected just like any other plant and if the meat is sold to a grocery store it has to have been inspected so you have two layers of protection. And most drugs would be gone from the tissue quite rapidly. Absolutrly no difference than any other meat.

Ezzy
It's going to be a lot different when it comes to public perception...
You got that right. Most have no idea it was common fare back in the 40's. As an example I can't believe this question if you would feed horsemeat, Why wouldn't you would be a better question.

Ezzy

It was common in the 1940's because of the war. It was not something the public wanted and the public was happy when it went away.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:43 pm

mcbosco wrote: It's going to be a lot different when it comes to public perception...

You got that right. Most have no idea it was common fare back in the 40's. As an example I can't believe this question if you would feed horsemeat, Why wouldn't you would be a better question.

Ezzy[/quote]

McBosco wrote:It was common in the 1940's because of the war. It was not something the public wanted and the public was happy when it went away.

It went away because a couple of cpmpanies got caught mislabeling it and selling it as beef which was higher priced. I don't remember a single person cheering when they made it illegal. A lot of people used it and it was good meat. But there are always a few that can't do things right and they caused it to go away and many poorer families were hurt by it. Of course, we have continued to sell it to France and some other European countries till again the government made it illegal to slaughter them for human consumption or for the pet industry which has used it for years. They put a bunch of people out of of work when they had to shut down the plant here in Dekalb. Hopefully they will get it reopened so the older nimals can be used rather thaan being held someplace till they die and then go to the rendering plants.

Ezzy

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:48 pm

Oh stop LOL...you know darn well the needs of the war put horse meat in the markets here not some love of eating it. By the way read this, this exactly what I am talking about:

http://www.equinewelfarealliance.org/up ... _FINAL.pdf

I have no issue with horses raised from birth for human consumption but not taking them after years of stuff like bute.

I live in a town with more horses than people and I am pretty familiar with what goes into them.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:02 pm

mcbosco wrote:Oh stop LOL...you know darn well the needs of the war put horse meat in the markets here not some love of eating it. By the way read this, this exactly what I am talking about:

http://www.equinewelfarealliance.org/up ... _FINAL.pdf

I have no issue with horses raised from birth for human consumption but not taking them after years of stuff like bute.

I live in a town with more horses than people and I am pretty familiar with what goes into them.

I lived during the war years and a shortage of meat was what put it on the store shelves. I never indicated it wasn't but that has nothing to do with how happy people were to see it go. And that is all I commented about. YOu have no idea how happy many people were to have it but I will admit peoples whole attitude and willingness to sacrifice for our troops was so different then compared to today. It wasn't a particular good experience to have to have rationing stamps for many of our staples and then to go to a store and find them almost bare of some things needed for our troops.

Ezzy

tn red · Post by **tn red** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:07 pm

Bute? come on really? you ever see what goes into cattle or swine.Bute

wems2371 · Post by **wems2371** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:07 pm

mcbosco wrote:Oh stop LOL...you know darn well the needs of the war put horse meat in the markets here not some love of eating it. By the way read this, this exactly what I am talking about:

http://www.equinewelfarealliance.org/up ... _FINAL.pdf

I have no issue with horses raised from birth for human consumption but not taking them after years of stuff like bute.

I live in a town with more horses than people and I am pretty familiar with what goes into them.

Didn't read your whole link, but it seemed like it dealt with thoroughbred race horses quite a bit, maybe even exclusively, which no doubt have a need for bute. Did I miss the percentage of thoroughbred race horses that actually make up the total of horses slaughtered? That would be relevant to the discussion...especially when you put up a link starting with "equine welfare alliance".

KwikIrish · Post by **KwikIrish** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:18 am

I've watched the horse aucions on and off for some time now, primarily enumclaw. Exracers, race training wash outs, critically injured race horses, and nonproductive broodmares tend to be a rather significant portion of the market. While that might not be the case for all horse auctions, those combined with quarter horses will continue to dominate the market. Sure, a good portion of those qh's are "ranch bred" horses that have minimal medication regiments, but for those prior performance based head, I'm a little weary. There are some crazy concoctions out there, and I think that the level of honesty about what these performance horses are receiving is severely comprised due to legality. Those are the drugs that I would worry about in the meat.

I've been a horse person at heart as long as I can remember. I'm undecided if I would buy a feed because it had horse meat, though I wouldn't rule out a feed because it had horse meat. I would never choose to eat horse meat, just not my idea of appealing, but I don't think this country should be inhibited from utilizing these unwanted horses in a productive manor. I do however believe that the industry needs to ensure as flawless of a kill system as possible. I've seen far too many videos of failed or improperly stunned horses still flailing, kicking, and whinnying while being cut open. Proceedure is imparitive with all of our meat processing, not just equine.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:45 am

wems2371 wrote:
mcbosco wrote:Oh stop LOL...you know darn well the needs of the war put horse meat in the markets here not some love of eating it. By the way read this, this exactly what I am talking about:

http://www.equinewelfarealliance.org/up ... _FINAL.pdf

I have no issue with horses raised from birth for human consumption but not taking them after years of stuff like bute.

I live in a town with more horses than people and I am pretty familiar with what goes into them.
Didn't read your whole link, but it seemed like it dealt with thoroughbred race horses quite a bit, maybe even exclusively, which no doubt have a need for bute. Did I miss the percentage of thoroughbred race horses that actually make up the total of horses slaughtered? That would be relevant to the discussion...especially when you put up a link starting with "equine welfare alliance".

I really don't know but the use of Bute is not limited to race horses, many show horses get it as well. It is just one example of why this is not such an easy issue. In fact, starting 2013 I believe the EU has banned US horses from the food chain there because there is no way to keep track of the medications used. There are other medications that concern me as well, including the mineral spirits and pitch based and anti-fungal preparations used on virtually all horses.

jlp8cornell · Post by **jlp8cornell** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:08 am

There are other medications that concern me as well

Me too, such as hormones like Regumate used in mares, anti-inflammatories (other then Bute), steroids for horse with heaves...etc.

FYI: You might be surprised how many drugs are allowed in racehorses. http://www.arci.com/druglisting.pdf

tn red · Post by **tn red** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:25 am

http://www.dairystar.com/main.asp?Secti ... cleID=5745
For the folks that feed raw almost half 47%
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/04/ ... 4211.shtml

markj · Post by **markj** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:42 pm

Feed horsy meat to my dogs? Why not I ate it myself. Why there is a fellow close to Sioux City kills one each year about this time for the holidays.

It's going to be a lot different when it comes to public perception...

That is what closed em down but with the rendering plants not taking em and such why the country folk have said their peace and got the law changed. The race horses I have had and run were in better shape then most cows you buy parts from in the stores. Why go to the store and buy a meat item, you will find it has water, food coloring and msg or some other protective ingredient to keep it looking red and tasty a long time. Then look into the cow it came from, most are bad mouth cows cant get enough nutrition to feed a calf at side. So off she goes to the table. After a life of hormones and antibiotics been run thru it.

Go to France, go to a high level resturant or just a mom and pop, notice horse meat items? yep they still serve there.

Sometimes public opinion isnt the best to go with.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:14 pm

markj wrote:

Most times public opinion isnt the best to go with.

There I fixed it for you.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:38 pm

I would 100% give it a try, can't say much about it till I tried it.

No question I would feed horse meat to the dogs if there were some benefit like cost or quality etc.

Karen · Post by **Karen** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:28 am

Would I feed it to my dogs? If it was cheaper than what I feed now, I'd try it. If they did well on it, then they'd stay on it. Would I eat it personally? Probably not, but I am not at all opposed to horse slaughter. I think it's a necessity actually. And before it was stopped 5 yrs ago, most of the meat harvested was sold to Canada and overseas. If the plants re-open, I'd imagine the supply lines to Canada and Europe would also open up again.

markj · Post by **markj** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:54 pm

I really do not belive it will be sold in American stores as a human cunsumable meat item. I do hope to see it in the dog food tho.

Funny thing about stuff in animals, ever work on a feed lot? and see what is put into the cow feed? Did you know most meat sold in stores have stuff injected into it to keep it red longer and look more appetizing? then lets look at the milk industry and see the amount of protein and other items fed to them for milk production and guess what? Its in that hamburger you just ate. I seen bucket calve fed off mom cow just once get their digestive systems burned to the point they die as they cannot digest any food they eat. and some complain about horses getting slaughtered?

Buy chickens at the store? Bad choice, they too are fed stuff to make em grow fast so they can be food items. I can show you a chicken setup local to me. I buy free range stuff grown on a farm.... raise my own beef....

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:36 pm

markj wrote:I really do not belive it will be sold in American stores as a human cunsumable meat item. I do hope to see it in the dog food tho.

Funny thing about stuff in animals, ever work on a feed lot? and see what is put into the cow feed? Did you know most meat sold in stores have stuff injected into it to keep it red longer and look more appetizing? then lets look at the milk industry and see the amount of protein and other items fed to them for milk production and guess what? Its in that hamburger you just ate. I seen bucket calve fed off mom cow just once get their digestive systems burned to the point they die as they cannot digest any food they eat. and some complain about horses getting slaughtered?

Buy chickens at the store? Bad choice, they too are fed stuff to make em grow fast so they can be food items. I can show you a chicken setup local to me. I buy free range stuff grown on a farm.... raise my own beef....

There is nothing put in any feed that is going to make the meat unsafe to eat unless someone decides they are going to use something not approved. And that can happen but usually gets caught rather quickly. All of the horror stories make great reading in the tabloids but the facts just aren't there. We can still go the grocery store and find the safest best food in the world.

Ezzy

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:54 pm

"Buy chickens at the store? Bad choice, they too are fed stuff to make em grow fast so they can be food items. I can show you a chicken setup local to me. I buy free range stuff grown on a farm.... raise my own beef...."

Hormones are not allowed in poultry or pork in the US, but I hear you we stick to Bell & Evan's chicken. As for horsemeat, it will be interesting where it goes because next year it won't be allowed to be shipped from here to Europe because we have no way to certify the drugs used in horses.

tn red · Post by **tn red** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:48 pm

16% of the worlds population eats horse meat.Why would you say its unsafe?Have you ever saw a chicken that is bred for the meat market? Its not pretty

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:26 pm

tn red wrote:16% of the worlds population eats horse meat.Why would you say its unsafe?Have you ever saw a chicken that is bred for the meat market? Its not pretty

Horses are not raised for food in the US so they get all kinds of stuff that is potentially dangerous. If they were raised for the food supply great.

Yes I have seen those varieties of chickens and yes they are nasty looking but they are bred, fed and cared for as a food item. There is a whole industry and regulatory structure for poultry.

I have no issue with using horses for food, but I don't think recycling race, show or pleasure horses is the way to go.

markj · Post by **markj** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:58 pm

I have no issue with using horses for food, but I don't think recycling race, show or pleasure horses is the way to go

Well until they come up with a way to do something with them...

Dad raised race horses, we never used drugs on em, fed em better than I eat. All grain twice a day very green alfalfa on the track and brome at home. I would eat one of them any day over some of the other stuff I seen come into the slughterhouse when I worked there. I also worked at the pig palace here in Omaha the stock yards so I do know of what i speak

Horses got antibiotics is about all and not very much of that. Look into the feed ata feedlot, they add a 50lb bag of pure protien to every ground mix which is usually a ton of corn and a large round bale of hay plus the minerals, salt and a couple anti biotics for runny noses and to avoid feed lot illness's which are brought in with a new load of feeders.

So what should folks do with them unwanted horsys? I see a lot of free horses on craigslist every day.....