cups/day food question

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DogNewbie
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cups/day food question

Post by DogNewbie » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:01 pm

Hello,

My pup is turning 6 months this week and I noticed on his food bag's cups/day chart that they suggest decreasing the amount of food a 6 - 7 (or 8 ) month old pup gets and then bumping it back up at 8 (or 9) months old. Just curious as to why this would be? Is this a resting period between growth spurts or something? Thanks!

Tim
Last edited by DogNewbie on Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: cups/day food question

Post by Sharon » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:47 pm

I don't know why they would say that. There can be growth spurts , but you can't easily tell when that might be. When deciding on how much to feed a dog, you can start with the bag instructions but then check your dog out every couple weeks and see if you should be feeding less or more.You should be able to feel the ribs easily but not see them, (some disagree), Hip bones should not too obvious. Amounts vary greatly with the amount of exercise your dog gets. As I am retired, I work my dogs hard every second day. They need more food then a dog who gets out once a week. Rate of metabolism also varies greatly with dogs - another reason why bag amounts need to be manipulated.
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Re: cups/day food question

Post by DogNewbie » Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:09 pm

Yeah, I'm already feeding my pup more than the bag recommends and I'm still leaning more towards increasing his intake. I can see all ribs and feel his back bone too. I'm guessing it's just because he gets a 3 mile run every weekday morning and hunting long days every couple weekends.

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Re: cups/day food question

Post by JuliaH » Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:37 pm

The amount of food it really takes to feed your dog also has a lot to do with the quality of the food, protein/fat/other nutrients and the digestibility of the food. A good quality food is important, especially for puppies and working dogs... What that high quality food is has caused more than one BIG arguement on the 'net, but study up, see what you like and what does the best for your dogs and then stay with it. Cost should not be the most important factor in deciding what to feed (not saying that is a determining factor for you at all, but it is for some...).

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Re: cups/day food question

Post by mcbosco » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:13 pm

DogNewbie wrote:Yeah, I'm already feeding my pup more than the bag recommends and I'm still leaning more towards increasing his intake. I can see all ribs and feel his back bone too. I'm guessing it's just because he gets a 3 mile run every weekday morning and hunting long days every couple weekends.
How much are you feeding now? Also, be careful putting so much physical stress on such a young dog. Its ok if they run at their own pace but jogging...not sure about that at his age.

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Re: cups/day food question

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:31 pm

mcbosco wrote:
DogNewbie wrote:Yeah, I'm already feeding my pup more than the bag recommends and I'm still leaning more towards increasing his intake. I can see all ribs and feel his back bone too. I'm guessing it's just because he gets a 3 mile run every weekday morning and hunting long days every couple weekends.
How much are you feeding now? Also, be careful putting so much physical stress on such a young dog. Its ok if they run at their own pace but jogging...not sure about that at his age.
Good point but jogging a 6 months old sure shouldn't be a problem as long as it does not include weight dragging. Our jogging is nothing but a leasurly stroll for a pup.

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Re: cups/day food question

Post by MikeB » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:39 pm

What food / formula are you feeding your pup?

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Re: cups/day food question

Post by jmsgunner » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:45 am

I think I've had my boy on pretty much 3 cups dry a day his whole life.

He now gets 3 cups and a half a can of wet food to bulk him back up since he came back from training. Will go back to 3 cups dry eventually.

What are you feeding? Feeding more isn't always the ticket... changing the food could help with his weight.
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Re: cups/day food question

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:10 pm

jmsgunner wrote:I think I've had my boy on pretty much 3 cups dry a day his whole life.

He now gets 3 cups and a half a can of wet food to bulk him back up since he came back from training. Will go back to 3 cups dry eventually.

What are you feeding? Feeding more isn't always the ticket... changing the food could help with his weight.
The only thing that will allow a weight gain is to take in more calories than is being used. Feeding more is the common way to do that. A change of feed will make no difference unless you increase the amount of calories he is eating.

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Re: cups/day food question

Post by mcbosco » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:49 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
jmsgunner wrote:I think I've had my boy on pretty much 3 cups dry a day his whole life.

He now gets 3 cups and a half a can of wet food to bulk him back up since he came back from training. Will go back to 3 cups dry eventually.

What are you feeding? Feeding more isn't always the ticket... changing the food could help with his weight.
The only thing that will allow a weight gain is to take in more calories than is being used. Feeding more is the common way to do that. A change of feed will make no difference unless you increase the amount of calories he is eating.

Ezzy
That is factually incorrect. The greater the proportion of fat and carbohydrates the greater the weight gain. The greater the proportion of protein, weight loss occurs. If protein exceeds the fat by much more than 10 percentage points it will be hard for the dog to gain weight. Protein is highly parasitic of calories. This is the whole premise of the popular high protein diets for people. Even though protein is not a great source of energy, once its in your dog it has to metabolized.

Dr. Gary Cotton makes a food called Best Breed and has a working dog formula designed by that famous Schutz trainer that is a 22/22.

If your dog is chronically underweight then using a 24/20 food is your best best.

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Re: cups/day food question

Post by jmsgunner » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:18 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
jmsgunner wrote:I think I've had my boy on pretty much 3 cups dry a day his whole life.

He now gets 3 cups and a half a can of wet food to bulk him back up since he came back from training. Will go back to 3 cups dry eventually.

What are you feeding? Feeding more isn't always the ticket... changing the food could help with his weight.
The only thing that will allow a weight gain is to take in more calories than is being used. Feeding more is the common way to do that. A change of feed will make no difference unless you increase the amount of calories he is eating.

Ezzy
I don't agree. But whatev's ;)
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Re: cups/day food question

Post by northUpland » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:21 pm

Bottom line is...calories per cup. A food high in kcal per cup, weight will more than likely come on if "the energy in does not equal the energy out". Due to metabolism and /or work ethic of our type of dogs it needs to be monitored and adjusted daily. There is a HUGE difference feeding a house dog formula running 350kcal per cup to a true performance food running on 550kcal+ per cup. Check out what your dogs bowl has in it for octane and plan accordingly. Just my 2 cents. I believe that was the point Ezzy was trying to make in his above posts but his verbiage might have gotten misinterpreted by some of you.

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Re: cups/day food question

Post by brad27 » Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:34 pm

jmsgunner wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:
jmsgunner wrote:I think I've had my boy on pretty much 3 cups dry a day his whole life.

He now gets 3 cups and a half a can of wet food to bulk him back up since he came back from training. Will go back to 3 cups dry eventually.

What are you feeding? Feeding more isn't always the ticket... changing the food could help with his weight.
The only thing that will allow a weight gain is to take in more calories than is being used. Feeding more is the common way to do that. A change of feed will make no difference unless you increase the amount of calories he is eating.

Ezzy
I don't agree. But whatev's ;)
Says the person feeding more to bulk up their own dog. :lol:

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Re: cups/day food question

Post by Sharon » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:03 pm

DogNewbie wrote:Yeah, I'm already feeding my pup more than the bag recommends and I'm still leaning more towards increasing his intake. I can see all ribs and feel his back bone too. I'm guessing it's just because he gets a 3 mile run every weekday morning and hunting long days every couple weekends.

With that much exercise , he'll definately need more food.

Don't forget , those bag amounts are for the couch potato dog too.
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Re: cups/day food question

Post by northUpland » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:18 pm

The point I was trying to make is that for a dog to gain and/or retain weight you do not need to feed more of the same food(but that can help to a certain extant)...but a better(and sometimes more economical option) is to feed a food that has a higher caloric density per cup. Even foods that are formulated and marketed as "performance food" can range anywhere from the high 300 kcal per cup to upwards of 600 kcal per cup. That is a huge difference!

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Re: cups/day food question

Post by DogNewbie » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:54 am

Thanks all for replying. Lot of info! I'll try to answer all the questions asked to me, but let me know if I forgot any. I'm feeding my pup about 4.5cups a day morning and night of puppy formula pro plan for large breeds. I was originally feeding him blue buffalo (or bison? can't remember) and it gave him the trots so I switched and his stools firmed right up. I increased his intake for about two weeks to about 5.5 cups a day when I was feeding him three times daily (if you remember he had that eating issue where you would eat to fast and puke...thankfully that's under control now) and he's put on just enough weight to cover his spine. He looks very healthy. When on a run he used to pull as hard as he could at the lead, but I've corrected that with heel training and he runs with slack in the lead now. Unfortunately, my current living situation requires Briar to be crated during the day so I feel like a morning run is less detrimental to his health than having pent up energy in a confined space. Thanks all for the input,

Tim

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Re: cups/day food question

Post by Sharon » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:27 pm

Well done.
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Re: cups/day food question

Post by MNGSP » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:15 pm

DogNewbie wrote:I'm feeding my pup about 4.5cups a day morning and night of puppy formula pro plan for large breeds. I was originally feeding him blue buffalo (or bison? can't remember) and it gave him the trots so I switched and his stools firmed right up. I increased his intake for about two weeks to about 5.5 cups a day when I was feeding him three times daily (if you remember he had that eating issue where you would eat to fast and puke...thankfully that's under control now) and he's put on just enough weight to cover his spine.
That's an awful lot of food to feed in a day; isn't it? It seems like a feed with a higher caloric content or one that's better absorbed by your dog might be in order. Nothing wrong with your feed; it just might not be right for your dog.

JJ

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Re: cups/day food question

Post by proudag08 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:52 pm

So I have a 11 week old pup... Is 2 cups in the morning and 2 at night too much? I'm feeding Purina PP Performance All life stage. He always seems hungry and goes to stand by the garage door right after i feed him like "I WANT MORE DUMMY!!" He gets 1.25 cups in the morning and 1.25 cups in the evening... Shoudl I ip his intake? Stools look good.

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Re: cups/day food question

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:40 pm

Watch his weight and condition, that is the only way you will know. There is no way someone who has never seen your pup can answer your question.

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Re: cups/day food question

Post by northUpland » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:40 pm

Nice looking pup. Great point Ezzy. Keep an eye on things with the pup and adjust accordingly. Just don't become a sucker and fall into his puppy eye/begger trap! He'll turn out to be a porker if so for sure!

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Re: cups/day food question

Post by jmsgunner » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:29 am

brad27 wrote:
jmsgunner wrote:I don't agree. But whatev's ;)
Says the person feeding more to bulk up their own dog. :lol:
Yeah a quarter cup of wet food.... woooooweeeee! ;)
It's calories, fat, and protein that I am feeding more of.
I wouldn't give my dog 4 cups of dry feed to fatten him up... the 1/2 a can works great.
I put 7 pounds on him in a month. So :P ;)
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Re: cups/day food question

Post by mcbosco » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:54 am

jmsgunner wrote:
brad27 wrote:
jmsgunner wrote:I don't agree. But whatev's ;)
Says the person feeding more to bulk up their own dog. :lol:
Yeah a quarter cup of wet food.... woooooweeeee! ;)
It's calories, fat, and protein that I am feeding more of.
I wouldn't give my dog 4 cups of dry feed to fatten him up... the 1/2 a can works great.
I put 7 pounds on him in a month. So :P ;)
A half can of food wouldn't put weight on a dog like yours. Could be a number of reasons why he gained weight.

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Re: cups/day food question

Post by brad27 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:03 am

It's calories, fat, and protein that I am feeding more of.
Thats usually how it's done. source only matters when there's not enough kcals per a given volume.

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Re: cups/day food question

Post by jmsgunner » Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:11 am

mcbosco wrote: A half can of food wouldn't put weight on a dog like yours. Could be a number of reasons why he gained weight.
Dude do you guys just love to argue or what? When you're in my house feeding MY dog, you can argue with me! And even then, don't you know the woman is always right!!!???? :wink:
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Re: cups/day food question

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:21 am

jmsgunner wrote:
mcbosco wrote: A half can of food wouldn't put weight on a dog like yours. Could be a number of reasons why he gained weight.
Dude do you guys just love to argue or what? When you're in my house feeding MY dog, you can argue with me! And even then, don't you know the woman is always right!!!???? :wink:
That half a can of food is 70 % water or more depending on the brand. So in reality you are feeding an extra spoon full or two of a dry feed. There just isn't enough calories in that amount to create a major weight gain is what they are telling you. No one is saying the dog didn't gain weight but it wasn't all from the feed. You were lucky if you fed an extra 7 pounds of feed in the month.

Hope everything continuew to do as good for you.

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Re: cups/day food question

Post by jmsgunner » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:43 am

No, he also has less exercise daily as he is no longer at training. Which of course has contributed to some weight gain.

Though, in my own defense - I didn't immediately begin feeding wet food in addition to his kibble until a month or so after training.

So while the wet food DID in fact put WEIGHT on MY dog.... The change in daily activity did as well. Never stated anything different.

No use arguing.
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Re: cups/day food question

Post by jlp8cornell » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:29 am

BTW: A few of the canned foods do have substantial calories. For example, Evo Venison has 520 kcals/can.

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Re: cups/day food question

Post by jmsgunner » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:05 pm

Yep, the canned I was substituting ran betweel 400-500 kcals per can.
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Re: cups/day food question

Post by ultracarry » Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:12 pm

If you cant see muscle in front shoulders, back quarters, upper back, ribs (most if not all), back bone, and hips, then your dog needs to loose weight.

Think of it this way: if the dog is 50 pounds and you add 10 pounds to him that's 20% of his weight. This would not be muscle if you are feeding more but mostly fat. If you want the dog to keep you warm in the winter that's all great but if you want a dog to hunt hard, fast, and all day then loose the fat and the dog will thank you by hunting all day. If the dog goes to lay down under some brush or hides and comes out when you get close its your fault.

Imagine how good you feel when you are slim and do exercise compared to when you work out when your fat. Some people don't know the difference but ill sum it up for them. IT SUCKS!

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Re: cups/day food question

Post by Sharon » Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:35 pm

jmsgunner wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:
jmsgunner wrote:I think I've had my boy on pretty much 3 cups dry a day his whole life.

He now gets 3 cups and a half a can of wet food to bulk him back up since he came back from training. Will go back to 3 cups dry eventually.

What are you feeding? Feeding more isn't always the ticket... changing the food could help with his weight.
The only thing that will allow a weight gain is to take in more calories than is being used. Feeding more is the common way to do that. A change of feed will make no difference unless you increase the amount of calories he is eating.

Ezzy
I don't agree. But whatev's ;)
jms gunner

Ezzy is absolutely right. Eating more calories than you are burning = a weight gain. Many of us have proven that to be true. :) in this country of high caloric foods.
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Re: cups/day food question

Post by jmsgunner » Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:06 am

Sharon, I was disagreeing with his comment about feeding more not different higher cal /proteing / fat food.
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Re: cups/day food question

Post by Sharon » Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:24 pm

proudag08 wrote:So I have a 11 week old pup... Is 2 cups in the morning and 2 at night too much? I'm feeding Purina PP Performance All life stage. He always seems hungry and goes to stand by the garage door right after i feed him like "I WANT MORE DUMMY!!" He gets 1.25 cups in the morning and 1.25 cups in the evening... Shoudl I ip his intake? Stools look good.

As Ezzy said, the only way to know is to watch them and you can't see a true change in a week. Stick to the plan you are using for a couple weeks and then decide. My 3 ( 6 - 13) get 1 1/2 cups a day each. Sure they want more, but don't let your dog make you feel guilty.
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Re: cups/day food question

Post by jcbuttry8 » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:17 am

Come on Jackie, wup that dog into shape. If he gets to big give me a call, We can let Kona help him run some of it off. You still in the neighborhood or did you move across the world yet?

Joe

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Re: cups/day food question

Post by jmsgunner » Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:34 am

jcbuttry8 wrote:Come on Jackie, wup that dog into shape. If he gets to big give me a call, We can let Kona help him run some of it off. You still in the neighborhood or did you move across the world yet?

Joe
LOL! Last time you texted me I said I was in for a run! Anytime dude! Well... that is after the New Year. Gunny is looking fit and fabulous.

Still in the hood! :D
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Re: cups/day food question

Post by claybuster_aa » Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:45 pm

Everything depends upon what is in the diet. An important thing to remember when it comes to commercial nutrition, the diet has to be at minimum strong enough for tissue to keep up rate of bone growth. Best not to overfeed in that scenario to avoid problems down the road. Scroll up and down in the health and nutrition threads and read about all the potential problems out there.

My viewpoint on dog food differs from many. I would look for diets that include by-product meals (preferably as a starter ingredient) to better your odds on whether or not the diet is adequate enough. The very last thing you want to lacking is in the protein.
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