Food/Diarrhea Help

txgsp · Post by **txgsp** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:49 pm

Hey guys....

So long story short, I have a 2 year old GSP. He's never been a huge eater, mainly grazes. Anyways, I fed him purina pro plan for a while but he never seemed to like it. He did at first but it seemed like he got tired of it. So after some investigation, I looked into feeding a higher quality dog food. I chose Blue Buffalo. He has really liked it a lot. Pooped less and his coat looks great. However, he has constant soft stool. He hasn't acted sick and his energy is fine.

Things to keep in mind.... He is around other dogs a lot during the day (doggy day care). He had the flu (or so they say) a little over a month ago. He has been on the food for a little more than a month.

Any help is appreciated!!

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:54 pm

Try yogurt.

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:19 pm

Yogurt or a probiotic is a good idea, but you might simply try cutting the volume of the feed 10-20%.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:55 pm

Yogurt but you need to get the Yogurt with acidopholis in it like activa

Gerber Baby Rice cereal you can sprinkle some on top of the food

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:54 am

If cutting back a bit or some yogurt doesn't help switching is not a bad idea. Precise (texas-made) & Canidae are much cheaper than BB. My brother is down there and feeds something called Victor which is made locally. It is half the price of BB and he has had good results with it. BB is a big brand now with lots of different formulas and I wonder about the quality with all this growth. There have been numerous recalls.

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:51 am

txgsp,
The question is how much are you feeding the dog per day?

With the new Blue Buffalo food are you portion feeding or free feeding?

txgsp · Post by **txgsp** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:57 am

MikeB wrote:txgsp,
The question is how much are you feeding the dog per day?

With the new Blue Buffalo food are you portion feeding or free feeding?

I feed him 3 cups in the morning and 3 cups at night. He sometimes eats it all and sometimes doesn't. He's not around his food all day so it's not free feeding.

Maybe I should tone it down to just two cups and put some yogurt in there for a whole I see if that helps.

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:15 pm

txgsp wrote:
MikeB wrote:txgsp,
The question is how much are you feeding the dog per day?

With the new Blue Buffalo food are you portion feeding or free feeding?
I feed him 3 cups in the morning and 3 cups at night. He sometimes eats it all and sometimes doesn't. He's not around his food all day so it's not free feeding.

Maybe I should tone it down to just two cups and put some yogurt in there for a whole I see if that helps.

6 cups of Blue Buffalo a day? That would even give me the poops. Cut back and your problem may be solved.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:17 pm

Sharon wrote:
txgsp wrote:
MikeB wrote:txgsp,
The question is how much are you feeding the dog per day?

With the new Blue Buffalo food are you portion feeding or free feeding?
I feed him 3 cups in the morning and 3 cups at night. He sometimes eats it all and sometimes doesn't. He's not around his food all day so it's not free feeding.

Maybe I should tone it down to just two cups and put some yogurt in there for a whole I see if that helps.

6 cups of Blue Buffalo a day? That would even give me the poops. Cut back and your problem may be solved.

+1 my dog ate 4 cups a day, 2 in the morning and 2 in the evening and i had to cut back depending on the season..he ate less in the summer months..6 cups of any food is too much imo...ruth

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:57 pm

6 cups, wow, that is a pricey food too...cut em back

txgsp · Post by **txgsp** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:54 pm

Okay so I fed him two cups tonight with some Activa mixed in. Hope it helps him out! Thanks yall.

ST8 UPPOINTERS · Post by **ST8 UPPOINTERS** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:14 pm

yogurt? 3-cups a day and heck be fine! 2 in the am 1 in the pm.. 6 big macks a day and you are hurting, 3 and you are loving life!

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:18 pm

txgsp wrote:Okay so I fed him two cups tonight with some Activa mixed in. Hope it helps him out! Thanks yall.

Ahhh, it's so nice to see someone follow the advice they have asked for.

Let us know how it goes.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:26 am

Most supermarkets carry a type of house brand "super yogurt" with really high levels of cultures and believe it or not added fish oil. It is actually one of the cheapest yogurts in the store because it is a house brand and comes in the quart container.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:45 am

mcbosco wrote:Most supermarkets carry a type of house brand "super yogurt" with really high levels of cultures and believe it or not added fish oil. It is actually one of the cheapest yogurts in the store because it is a house brand and comes in the quart container.

Yogurtmust be ok from the number of people who have used it but I just never found a need for it especially for a dog that already is over eating. Just cut the food back like recommended and you will solve the problem. I would cut it back to at least half of what you are feeding and then in a few days slowly increase to the level needed.

Ezzy

nanney1 · Post by **nanney1** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:16 am

Talked to a guy yesterday with a sleek as a seal GSP. Said she was on Bil-Jac as her previous food, Blue Buffalo, caused her to have a dry and flaky coat with bumps on her skin. Switched to Bil-Jac and the skin issue is gone and her coat glistens. I don't have any experience with BB, just something I heard yesterday.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:45 am

nanney1 wrote:Talked to a guy yesterday with a sleek as a seal GSP. Said she was on Bil-Jac as her previous food, Blue Buffalo, caused her to have a dry and flaky coat with bumps on her skin. Switched to Bil-Jac and the skin issue is gone and her coat glistens. I don't have any experience with BB, just something I heard yesterday.

Just read this forum's past posts and you will hear a simular story about every feed on the market from someone. Part of the fun in dealing with people.

Ezzy

nanney1 · Post by **nanney1** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:53 am

Yeah, that was just one example. I'm sure there are plenty of people whose dogs had poor results on Bil-Jac and switched to BB or some other food with better results.

Talked with a show handler a couple of weeks ago who couldn't get the dog she was handling to eat much of anything. He was too lean and needed to gain some weight. Whatever she tried to get him to eat, he would walk away from. He was currently on Bil-Jac and though he had eaten it for a few days, he had gone off of it. She had gotten him to eat potato soup served in a sourdough bread bowl the night before. The next day she told me he had chicken alfredo the night before. He finished his championship that day and would go back to the owner so his leanness wouldn't matter anymore.

Ava · Post by **Ava** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:04 pm

I used to have the same problem...Also, one of our dogs just loved visiting friends and relatives and eating all their dog food, but as soon as i would buy the 40# bag, she would turn her nose up at it, so I have been constantly switching her foods for the past 8 years. if I fed my dogs enough of a "high quality" food to keep weight on them, they would get the runs, which the wateriness increased with the amount of feed they were fed. If I fed them the recommended amount on the bag, they would become living skeletons. I then switched to a pre-made raw frozen patty type food in the morning and canidae in the evening. they went back up to a healthy weight, but on the downside there was much poop, more solid, but almost a whole grocery store bagful a day for 3 40lb dogs, and the patty style food was costing us $40/wk! so, we decided to go with a home made food. we bought a small chest freezer and a meat grinder and started... I went out & bought $40 worth of different foods: chicken leg quarters, beef heart, pork hearts, turkey gizzards, turkey breast meat, pork fat scraps, chicken feet, (for glucosamine chondritin) brown rice, barley, romaine lettuce, carrots, broccoli, & celery...put it all through the grinder, bones and all; veggies through the small hole strainer, and mixed it all together...when I was done I had 2 5-gallon buckets worth of food, which I separated out and put into containers enough for a day's ration. since then, our one dog's tear stains have disappeared, no more feet licking, nice small hard stools, so no more anal gland problems, my old dog's energy level has increased, no more gas!

and for keeping their teeth clean, we give them whole frozen turkey necks. Turkey contains the tryptophan, which helps with serotonin levels so no more crate/separation anxiety too!

obviously, when working with raw, you have to follow safe handling procedures, wash bowls, and use stainless vs. plastic.
http://rawfed.com/myths/

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:49 pm

Ava wrote:I used to have the same problem...Also, one of our dogs just loved visiting friends and relatives and eating all their dog food, but as soon as i would buy the 40# bag, she would turn her nose up at it, so I have been constantly switching her foods for the past 8 years. if I fed my dogs enough of a "high quality" food to keep weight on them, they would get the runs, which the wateriness increased with the amount of feed they were fed. If I fed them the recommended amount on the bag, they would become living skeletons. I then switched to a pre-made raw frozen patty type food in the morning and canidae in the evening. they went back up to a healthy weight, but on the downside there was much poop, more solid, but almost a whole grocery store bagful a day for 3 40lb dogs, and the patty style food was costing us $40/wk! so, we decided to go with a home made food. we bought a small chest freezer and a meat grinder and started... I went out & bought $40 worth of different foods: chicken leg quarters, beef heart, pork hearts, turkey gizzards, turkey breast meat, pork fat scraps, chicken feet, (for glucosamine chondritin) brown rice, barley, romaine lettuce, carrots, broccoli, & celery...put it all through the grinder, bones and all; veggies through the small hole strainer, and mixed it all together...when I was done I had 2 5-gallon buckets worth of food, which I separated out and put into containers enough for a day's ration. since then, our one dog's tear stains have disappeared, no more feet licking, nice small hard stools, so no more anal gland problems, my old dog's energy level has increased, no more gas! and for keeping their teeth clean, we give them whole frozen turkey necks. Turkey contains the tryptophan, which helps with serotonin levels so no more crate/separation anxiety too! obviously, when working with raw, you have to follow safe handling procedures, wash bowls, and use stainless vs. plastic.
http://rawfed.com/myths/

You found one of the solutions and it will work for you with just a dog or two. Another way to solve the problem is to feed a little less of what you are already feeding. We have to get through to people that you look at the dog and not the bag to tell you how much to feed. Most feeds on the market today are quite similar and will work for most dogs and present a much easier and in most cases a healthier way to feed a dog do the inability of the common person to formulate a diet sufficient in all of the necessary nutrients for a healthy feed, the lack of equipment to mix the ingredients, and the inability of keeping the same amount available daily to fulfill the dogs needs consistently.

Glad you solved your problems but for the most of us we will continue to practise good husbandry and management to take care of these minor little problems that pop up from time to time and not go through the huge amount of time that it takes to find, purchase,and store the ingredients and then purchase the expensive equipment to meter, grind, mix, bag, and store the home made feed and still end up with a feed we have no idea if it is balanced or even sufficient to provide all of the needs of a healthy dog.

txgsp · Post by **txgsp** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:18 am

So far my GSP has done well with the reduction in food amount. He is hungry both times when he eats which is good. He obviously loves the yogurt in the food. His stools has started to harden up and have gotten better each day. Hopefully it continues!

How long should I feed the yogurt for do yall think?

Karen · Post by **Karen** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:37 pm

My guess is the yogurt isn't doing anything to help with the diarrhea. Eliminate the yogurt, continue to feed less, and as long as you see steady improvement, you're good.

helpful_cub · Post by **helpful_cub** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:22 pm

A few months back my GSP has some issues like you were discribing. I switched him to low fat low sodium chicken broth for a couple of days to help him clear his system out. After that, he went back to normal feed and he was back to his old self.

northUpland · Post by **northUpland** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:43 pm

Just my 2 cents guys...Keep in mind the kcal content and overall digestibility percentage% of the food you're feeding. Educate yourself and call the company and ask what their feeding trails results are or if they went to the alternative which is chemical/analytical method. Food companies are not required to make these tests public knowledge. Take those quantitative theories like the inverse relationship of a foods digestibility and lower fecal volume and see how they apply to YOUR OWN DOG(S). I have never seen 2 dogs that are alike(even from the same litter). Like snow flakes and humans. Our metabolism and genetic make up is what makes as all individuals. Watch your gun dog and adjust as needed.

SHORTFAT · Post by **SHORTFAT** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:50 am

ezzy333 wrote: We have to get through to people that you look at the dog and not the bag to tell you how much to feed.

Bingo... My wife will tell you the same thing about feeding her husband and son!

2 different dogs can respond completely different to the same feeding pattern and type of food. Find a quality dog food, and tweek the amount and feeding times to fit the dogs. It will change with the seasons and the dogs age. Most improtantly is that you are paying close attention to the dogs health, which most if not everyone on this forum does... but too many people throw some food in the kennel and run off to work every day till the weekend... During the hunting season my 38# EP eats more than my 85# Lab ever did, but if I don't cut her back after the season she will get fat very quickly!

We've found that the RICE diet for a few days gets our dogs back on track... Good luck...

txgsp · Post by **txgsp** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:33 am

Okay so here is the update.... For several days after starting the yogurt and reducing the feed, he started doing better. His stools started to harden up. Now, its worse than its ever been. I am thinking he just doesn't agree with this food. Maybe he is allergic to something in it? I don't know. He has full on diarrhea and awful awful gas. I am going to switch foods... Any suggestions?

Also, could it be something else? Could he be sick with a little bug? He is acting fine otherwise...

wems2371 · Post by **wems2371** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:41 am

Have you done a stool sample parasite check for worms? Just a thought for soft stools or diarrhea...

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:49 am

First, I'd run three to five days of Panacur (fenbendazole) through him for coccidia. Then, for a food, I'd look at Nutro Natural Choice in a chicken formula, either the regular (light pale green bag) or large breed (white bag, puppy, blue bag adult). I have seen excellent results on GI compromised dogs with the Nutro formulas. I personally wouldn't feed Blue Buffalo to a pig. A pig I didn't like, no less. It's a target market food and I've returned a bunch of it for dogs not eating it or not doing well on it.

txgsp · Post by **txgsp** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:46 pm

Should I run the dewormer, then start switching foods? Or do them simultaneously?

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:07 pm

txgsp wrote:Should I run the dewormer, then start switching foods? Or do them simultaneously?

Skip the wormer and just use a new food. Wormers shouldn't be used without confirmation of a problem, so maybe the vet should advise you. Coccidia is largely an issue for young puppies anyway.

Buy Precise, Canidae Chicken & Rice, Royal Canin Medium Active (called Special) those should be easy to get for you. Precise is made down there, good simple food. Limit the dog to 3 cups per day until the stool firms.

I agree with above Blue Buffalo is crap. Get your money back.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:19 pm

mcbosco wrote:
txgsp wrote:Should I run the dewormer, then start switching foods? Or do them simultaneously?
Skip the wormer and just use a new food. Wormers shouldn't be used without confirmation of a problem, so maybe the vet should advise you. Coccidia is largely an issue for young puppies anyway.

Buy Precise, Canidae Chicken & Rice, Royal Canin Medium Active (called Special) those should be easy to get for you. Precise is made down there, good simple food. Limit the dog to 3 cups per day until the stool firms.

I agree with above Blue Buffalo is crap. Get your money back.

Disagree on all of the above, except the BluBuff comment. I would say full blown diahrrea is a problem. The vet would likely give flagyl at this stage. Coccidia is an opportunistic parasite and can affect any age of dog. I would use Panacur first, then transition to a new food. None of those listed foods is a good choice for a dog with a stressed GI, especially if the fat exceeds 14%. The oatmeal in Nutro Natural Choice actually contains an amino acid (or enzyme, can't remember) that strengthens the GI lining, plus the adult formula is 12% fat.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:30 pm

mcbosco wrote:
txgsp wrote:Should I run the dewormer, then start switching foods? Or do them simultaneously?
Skip the wormer and just use a new food. Wormers shouldn't be used without confirmation of a problem, so maybe the vet should advise you. Coccidia is largely an issue for young puppies anyway.

Buy Precise, Canidae Chicken & Rice, Royal Canin Medium Active (called Special) those should be easy to get for you. Precise is made down there, good simple food. Limit the dog to 3 cups per day until the stool firms.

I agree with above Blue Buffalo is crap. Get your money back.

Hey, you are the one that has been promoting Blue Buffalo. Fill us in now how you know these other feeds are so good for scours, how you know the dog shouldn't be treated for coccidia and why a dog needs to have a test done to confirm worms before treating with a common mild wormer? That all sounds a little strange to me where you have no idea what the pups problem is. He has already used the yougrt you always say will solve the problem and it didn't. I still question everyone giving medical advice when they have no idea what the problem really is. Even our trained vets require an office visit before making a diagnosis and I don't think it is just to pad their pockets like some think. I admit I don't go to the vets very often, well maybe I should say almost never, but I am looking at the dog every day and from experience do know what is happening many times. But to just get on the net and tell someone how to treat their dog with no background info seems completely out of line to me.

Ezzy

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:57 pm

Txgsp, call your vet and see if you can simply drop off a stool sample for a fecal floatation, so you can rule out parasites. As I previously mentioned, I would choose a lower fat, chicken based food and the Nutro has a good track record with many of my customers, including those whose pets suffered villar atrophy from coccidia or giardia. I'd keep your dog out of daycare, also. He may be reinfecting there.

txgsp · Post by **txgsp** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:23 pm

I went ahead and went to the vet this evening to get a fecal test done. Everything was negative but she gave me some antibiotics to help clear anything up in his GI tract that the test didn't catch. Also gave me seem pills to help with the diarrhea and some flora to sprinkle on his food. She also said to switch his food because most likely that's what the cause is.

She suggested Royan Canin Medium Active 25. She said its easy on the stomach of dogs. Anyone know anything about this? As mentioned previously, the fat percentage is 14% but has other things in it hat are supposed to help digestion. Or should I try the Nutro?

Thanks for all of yalls help...

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:30 pm

Follow your vets advice. That is what you paid for.

Ezzy

ST8 UPPOINTERS · Post by **ST8 UPPOINTERS** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:55 pm

If it were me i would do a 7 day fish zole presrip and change foods... just incase it is giardia... did they do a stool sample? ive never had a dog that didnt do well on loyall professioal 31/20

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:57 pm

Stick with the vet's choice. RC provides good support on both the consumer and vet sides of their line and it gives your vet a known quantity with which to work. It may take a little while for things to stabilize, and certainly let your vet know immediately if there is a change for the worse. The risk I would be concerned with is the dog developing IBS, so don't let any deterioration go unchecked.

terrym · Post by **terrym** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:41 pm

Vet said to try another food which is what I woud do at this point. I think you likely need to give it more than a few days though before you make any conclusions.

jlp8cornell · Post by **jlp8cornell** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:05 am

by mcbosco
Skip the wormer and just use a new food. Wormers shouldn't be used without confirmation of a problem, so maybe the vet should advise you. Coccidia is largely an issue for young puppies anyway.

Buy Precise, Canidae Chicken & Rice, Royal Canin Medium Active (called Special) those should be easy to get for you. Precise is made down there, good simple food. Limit the dog to 3 cups per day until the stool firms.

Funny that in the end, after all the bickering, this is exactly what the vet said to do, to use the RC Med Active, and no coccidia.

TXGSP-- You can get the RC at PetSmart/Petco for a lot less then from the Vet.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:45 am

I'm sure the vet's choice had NOTHING to do with the fact that RC reps have been pounding on clinic doors like crazy for the past couple of months. Even moreso if it was Banfield. RC and Hill's have been integrating therapeutic nutrition into their consumer side for a few months now and RC is about to drive everyone nuts with their formula changes, packaging changes, and name changes. The big surge I've seen is for the breed specific formulas. Babydog German shepherd? Schnauzer? Really? Funny thing is, they only make specialty formulas for popular breeds. Haven't seen a Great Pyrenees or pharoah hound SKU yet.

If the Hill's rep would have been a little more on the ball, the dog would be eating i/d, I'll bet.

Regardless, I hope he gets better and I'd still keep him away from doggy daycare in the future.

txgsp · Post by **txgsp** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:21 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:I'm sure the vet's choice had NOTHING to do with the fact that RC reps have been pounding on clinic doors like crazy for the past couple of months. Even moreso if it was Banfield. RC and Hill's have been integrating therapeutic nutrition into their consumer side for a few months now and RC is about to drive everyone nuts with their formula changes, packaging changes, and name changes. The big surge I've seen is for the breed specific formulas. Babydog German shepherd? Schnauzer? Really? Funny thing is, they only make specialty formulas for popular breeds. Haven't seen a Great Pyrenees or pharoah hound SKU yet. If the Hill's rep would have been a little more on the ball, the dog would be eating i/d, I'll bet.

Regardless, I hope he gets better and I'd still keep him away from doggy daycare in the future.

I definitely wasn't going to buy it from her at the vet. I'm going to get it from the pet store for sure. She seemed like she probably supported science diet more because that's what they have on display. She was just suggesting it because its easy on the stomach of dogs. And also, it wasn't a Banfield so that's good too.

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:10 pm

TXGSP,

Is this for food the vet recommended... http://products.royalcanin.us/products/ ... Animal=Dog

txgsp · Post by **txgsp** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:05 pm

MikeB wrote:TXGSP,

Is this for food the vet recommended... http://products.royalcanin.us/products/ ... Animal=Dog

Yessir, that is it. I may get a small bag and see how he likes it. Any experience with it?