Another recall- River Run

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jlp8cornell
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Another recall- River Run

Post by jlp8cornell » Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:33 pm

I think I have read some people use River Run on this forum. Must be Iams makes it....

http://www.fda.gov/Safety/Recalls/ucm282753.htm

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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by mcbosco » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:03 pm

jlp8cornell wrote:I think I have read some people use River Run on this forum. Must be Iams makes it....

http://www.fda.gov/Safety/Recalls/ucm282753.htm
No its made by Cargill like Loyall but Loyall is not involved.

This is an Aflatoxin recall.

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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by jlp8cornell » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:10 pm

Iams was aflatoxin as well. 2 in one day- they have to be produced in the same plant.

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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by mcbosco » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:13 pm

jlp8cornell wrote:Iams was aflatoxin as well. 2 in one day- they have to be produced in the same plant.
Or they received corn from the same supplier. Could be other grain as well.

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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by jlp8cornell » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:21 pm

True...

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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by mcbosco » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:29 pm

The recall covers products made back as far as December 2010. Nice.

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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:50 pm

Recalls are never good but again our system worked and the problem is being addressed before any damage has occured it sounds like. We as patrons need to be concerned but we also need to be straight forward about them and not try to make it worse than it actually is by repeating things we don't know or just putting our bad information. Already in this thread we have Loyall being made by Cargill which it is not, and aflatoxin could be in other grain which has never been a factor as far as I know. No other grain is even tested for it since it normally happens when corn dies from lack of rain before the moisture in the ear can be lowered naturally by being pulled from the ear by the stalk of the plant. And though I too assume the problem may be in just one plant we don't know that. We know that P&G voluntarily reported the same problem a few days ago.

Please be sure you are reporting facts and not hearsay or personal opinion.

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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by jlp8cornell » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:58 pm

Ezzy: I looked it up. Loyall and River Run are from the same manufacturer- Nutrena. Nutrena is owned by Cargill......

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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:01 pm

jlp8cornell wrote:Ezzy: I looked it up. Loyall and River Run are from the same manufacturer- Nutrena. Nutrena is owned by Cargill......
True but Cargill and Nutrena each make feed I believe. I know they always did.

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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by jlp8cornell » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:07 pm

True but Cargill and Nutrena each make feed I believe
Yes and Nutrena lists Loyall and River Run as it's products.....

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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by kninebirddog » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:38 pm

Ezzy http://www.loyallpetfood.com/loyall/en/index.jsp scroll all the way to the bottom Yes Loyall is nutrena and Nutrena is owned by Cargill ..

And yes they make all sorts of Feed
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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by big steve46 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:17 pm

jlp8cornell wrote:Ezzy: I looked it up. Loyall and River Run are from the same manufacturer- Nutrena. Nutrena is owned by Cargill......

True. Loyall is made in the K.C. area at their main plant.
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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by shets114 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:22 pm

Yea they are pretty effecient. They have product that is bad back to Dec 2010 and just now have a recall. I call that a pretty good response time.

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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:39 am

kninebirddog wrote:Ezzy http://www.loyallpetfood.com/loyall/en/index.jsp scroll all the way to the bottom Yes Loyall is nutrena and Nutrena is owned by Cargill ..

And yes they make all sorts of Feed
And yes we all know that I think, at least that is what we are saying.

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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by mcbosco » Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:57 am

shets114 wrote:Yea they are pretty effecient. They have product that is bad back to Dec 2010 and just now have a recall. I call that a pretty good response time.
Aflatoxin testing should be a no brainer at this point. If you automatically reject all grain stuffs above a certain moisture level and then test those at or below the correct moisture level it would reduce the risk to essentially ZERO. Pet food companies should not solely rely on testing those ingredients that are high risk.

Here is the press release from Cargill confirming it was bad corn:

http://www.seattledogspot.com/tag/marksman-dog-food/

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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by postoakshorthairs » Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:25 am

I don't feed River Run, I have in the past and my brother still does. It is kind of humerous that they are recalling dog food from a year ago. I don't have any of the dog food left I bought a month ago...let alone a year ago.

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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by mcbosco » Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:29 am

postoakshorthairs wrote:I don't feed River Run, I have in the past and my brother still does. It is kind of humerous that they are recalling dog food from a year ago. I don't have any of the dog food left I bought a month ago...let alone a year ago.
It just shows that there was very poor quality control. 12 months went by before they realized that the testing protocol was insufficient.

No dogs were harmed so hopefully the whole thing is "belts and suspenders".

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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by nanney1 » Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:51 am

I fed it for most of the year, but had issues with my local supplier running out. Not the best, not the worst. Dogs looked good and had good energy on the River Run Hi Pro 27/12 which is the only version I fed. Definitely a budget type food although there was a price increase twice this year. The second price increase combined with the supply issue caused me to eventually drop it altogether. My coated dog had good coat, though it may not have been as soft as it was on some other foods. I don't live in the region where there were recalls. The 27/12 was fine for backyard pets and would probably be fine for the occasional weekend hunter. Don't know how well it would work for a dog with a high workload.

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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:34 am

mcbosco wrote:
shets114 wrote:Yea they are pretty effecient. They have product that is bad back to Dec 2010 and just now have a recall. I call that a pretty good response time.
Aflatoxin testing should be a no brainer at this point. If you automatically reject all grain stuffs above a certain moisture level and then test those at or below the correct moisture level it would reduce the risk to essentially ZERO. Pet food companies should not solely rely on testing those ingredients that are high risk.

Here is the press release from Cargill confirming it was bad corn:

http://www.seattledogspot.com/tag/marksman-dog-food/

High moisture corn has nothing to do with it as all the corn that is traded on the market is at least 15.5 % or less. Plus the quick test that is performed before the corn is unloaded is not an exact science type of test and can miss low levels very easily. In this case what probably happened is some feed that was OK when manufactured had some retained samples tested later and the level had risen or possibly was just detected at that time. This sounds like what happened as there was no problem ever reported from the feed being fed but they had to put out the warning on the old feed in case some was still on someones shelf or a bag out in the kennel yet.

Again it should be taken seriously but lets not start dreaming up sceneros that we know nothing about.

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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by Duane M » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:44 am

How do we know no dogs were harmed, because Cargill says so? In a years time there very well could have been deaths but attributed to some other cause for all we know, a years time is completely unacceptable for something like this to go on, worse is that some defending this were calling for Diamonds head on a platter a few years ago for a recall that covered FAR less time. Why the double standard? Because no confirmed deaths over a years time of lax quality control?

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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by mcbosco » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:19 am

Ezzy,

That is total BULL. What moisture content corn trades at is just a market bench mark, a pricing mechanism.

You have know way of knowing what the actual moisture of a shipment of #2 Corn is until you test it. Just because the market trades a specific quality level, doesn't mean that is what you receive.

Respectfully, you are 1000% incorrect.

The corn developed mold because the moisture content was too high in storage.

Your reference to the commodity market limits is pie-in-the-sky.

Also Cargill admitted it screwed up. What more do you need?

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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:30 am

mcbosco wrote:Ezzy,

That is total BULL. What moisture content corn trades at is just a market bench mark, a pricing mechanism.

You have know way of knowing what the actual moisture of a shipment of #2 Corn is until you test it. Just because the market trades a specific quality level, doesn't mean that is what you receive.

Respectfully, you are 1000% incorrect.

The corn developed mold because the moisture content was too high in storage.

Your reference to the commodity market limits is pie-in-the-sky.

Also Cargill admitted it screwed up. What more do you need?
Thank you for clearing that all up for me. Guess I sure got took all those years I purchased and received 4 to 500 bushel a day and had to test it when it was received. I always thought is was kind of important to make sure the moisture was 15.5% or less since I couldn't really afford to buy the extra water and we had to have it that low to keep it from spoiling in the silos where we had 10,000 bushel at times. Of course the fact that the elevator had sold it as No. 2 corn and we bought it as No. 2 corn so they were under contract to deliver it at that level and the fact the state and occasionally the feds would come in and check it to insure they were living up to the law had nothing to do with it either I suppose. Sorry, but your lack of understanding of actual practises of grain trading and even less of the grain storage requirements which evidently is quite different than the people sitting in an office somewhere imagines.

And you might notice I did not blame or absolve Cargill in any way as neither you or I know exactly what happened but I do have an understanding of what possibly happened as all of us involved in actual production of the feeds have faced similar problems. AS i HAVE CAREFULLY POINTED OUT DO NOT USE SOMETHING POTENTALLY THIS SERIOUS TO START TRYING TO PLACE BLAME BEFORE YOU EVEN HAVE AN INKLING OF WHAT MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED. YOUR OPINION WILL IN NO WAY INFLUENCE THE SOLUTION OR PREVENT THE PROBLEM FROM REOCCURING. ALL IT CAN POSSIBLY DO IS UNNECESSARILY SCARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ALSO DO NOT HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE OR KNOWLEDGE IN THE AREA OF FEED MANUFACTURING.

You asked what more do I need since Cargill admitted it screwed up, absolutely nothing, as anytime this happens the company screwed up which we all know and is exactly why they have issued a recall. That we all knew, but you still don't need to tell people what and why something happened when you do not have those answers and are spreading false information.

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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by Cajun Casey » Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:16 pm

Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by mcbosco » Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:26 pm

"Sorry, but your lack of understanding of actual practises of grain trading and even less of the grain storage requirements which evidently is quite different than the people sitting in an office somewhere imagines"

I know exactly what I am talking about. You clearly don't. Cargill got a bad shipment of corn relying on a pricing standard, which is #2, and didn't have the procedures in place to check if they got what they paid for. (This is what they admitted)

I do the same for physical gold shipments. It is priced at a quality point based on the markets and it is tested upon receipt. Sometimes the grade or weight is not right.

Sorry you are just plain wrong about what happened.

"Immediately dry samples to 12–14 percent moisture to prevent aflatoxin development during transit or storage" Clearly this did not happen even though Cargill's buyer paid a market price for #2.

I know a few companies that won't even accept corn with tested moisture at 14% let alone test for aflatoxin.

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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:50 pm

mcbosco wrote:"Sorry, but your lack of understanding of actual practises of grain trading and even less of the grain storage requirements which evidently is quite different than the people sitting in an office somewhere imagines"

I know exactly what I am talking about. You clearly don't. Cargill got a bad shipment of corn relying on a pricing standard, which is #2, and didn't have the procedures in place to check if they got what they paid for. (This is what they admitted)

I do the same for physical gold shipments. It is priced at a quality point based on the markets and it is tested upon receipt. Sometimes the grade or weight is not right.

Sorry you are just plain wrong about what happened.

"Immediately dry samples to 12–14 percent moisture to prevent aflatoxin development during transit or storage" Clearly this did not happen even though Cargill's buyer paid a market price for #2.

I know a few companies that won't even accept corn with tested moisture at 14% let alone test for aflatoxin.
There is not a thing you said about grain is true but there is no use trying to explain it to you refuse to learn.

Ezzy
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http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by mcbosco » Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:19 pm

The facts are simple.

1) Cargill bought bad grain, possible it got suckered, possible it knew, we will never know, the fact is Cargill bought bad grain.
2) Cargill failed to adequately test the grain, and admitted to that
3) Cargill failed to discover this for 12 months, and admitted to that
3) What you buy at market prices sometimes is not exactly what you get.

If you believe just because the CBOT trades #2 corn that every silo in the midwest and every shipment will spec out that way than you are in outer space.

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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:52 pm

This is what was published which is quite different from the above posts.

Cargill is voluntarily recalling River Run and Marksman dog food, because your pet’s health is of the utmost importance to us, too. We are not aware of any dogs getting sick, but we’re recalling these products and pulling them from stores just to make sure.

First, we owe you an explanation.

Corn containing higher-than-acceptable levels of a naturally occurring substance called aflatoxin was delivered to our plant in Lecompte, La. Aflatoxin is a naturally occurring result of mold. We test the corn that comes to our plant before it goes into our pet food. We recently discovered our tests were not working as they should and reported it to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

And in checking with them Cargill initiated the recall for the past year because that was the last time their tests were validated and they don't know for sure when after that their test were bad, so to be sure they issued the recall for that period even though it probably was OK for much of that period.

Again the state samples were gathered and tested and that is how the problem was discovered when the results were different that their own. It has been a good system to have these duplicate test run to insure that everything is working properly.

Just very glad the problem was discovered before any serious problem occured.

Ezzy
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http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

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Re: Another recall- River Run

Post by mcbosco » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:39 am

Yes that is how lawyers speak, just confirming the facts, bad ingredients & bad testing. The "voluntary recall" is just optics. That is what you do when you know a "mandatory recall" could be the next step.

Damage control. I am sure Cargill has a PR company that specializes in that.

I have no doubt Cargill regrets what happened, and that heads will roll. I happened to like that company, but it still doesn't excuse bad execution. Not one bit.

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