Gun Dog Forum

All,

I have 2 Brit bitches about 1.5 years old. My dogs have some allergies and I don't know if it's their food, the environment, both or neither. In an attempt to do some "rule outs," I switched their diet from Science Diet Advanced Fitness to Nuti Source Chicken. They got the runs and I had to get food from the vet to get them regular again. They are now back on SD Advanced Fitness (still have allergies) and I'm planning to try changing foods again.

I lurk here on occasions and discovered that at least one loyal poster advocated Diamond HE (and the pix associated with his post is a Brit). So I bought 50# off Amazon and it's arrived. I've been trying to switch them over slowly, e.g., 10% more each day. I'm at about 50% and so far so good.

What advice can/will any of you offer on the food and/or a good methodology for switching over?

My thanks in advance,
Spike

Just what you are doing but also cut back the amount when you get switched. You can start increasing slowly if you need to but I think you will find they don't need as much as you have been feeding.

I'm interested in the symptoms that lead you to believe they both have allergies. It can happen, though rarely related to food, but is not normally something you see in dogs. I have had several hundreds of dogs i our kennels and never had a one have a problem I could identify. I had several that came in with a problem but when they were put on a limited amount of a regular food their problems went away and never returned.

Hope everything turns out well for you and the dogs,

Ezzy

ezzy333 wrote:Just what you are doing but also cut back the amount when you get switched. You can start increasing slowly if you need to but I think you will find they don't need as much as you have been feeding.

I'm interested in the symptoms that lead you to believe they both have allergies. It can happen, though rarely related to food, but is not normally something you see in dogs. I have had several hundreds of dogs i our kennels and never had a one have a problem I could identify. I had several that came in with a problem but when they were put on a limited amount of a regular food their problems went away and never returned.

Hope everything turns out well for you and the dogs,

Ezzy

Thanks for the reply.

Symptoms: rubbing their mouth on the floor/carpet, redness of the gums and around their eyes. One dog has more symptoms than the other. The one with more symptoms is most likely to rub her mouth on the carpet just after eating.

Spike

I've seen those symptoms associated with feeding out of plastic bowls.

I have seen dogs do that and thought they just lost their napkin. :roll: Many animals will do that but never saw it as a sign of an allergy. Mine tend to do it more when they haven't been brushed or groomed. They love to do it on a chainlink fence. Has to feel good to them. I do the same thing on the edge of the door when I can't reach where I itch.

I'm sure it is possible for a dog to break out in something similiar to hives that would itch but I do know in most cases they are just rubbing because it feels good. I have one female that rolls and rubs on the carpet as well as the rawhide bone you give her for 5 minutes before she will eat it. Wish I understood what that is all about.

Ezzy

Cajun Casey wrote:I've seen those symptoms associated with feeding out of plastic bowls.

I'm feeding out of stainless steel.

Spike

ezzy333 wrote:I have seen dogs do that and thought they just lost their napkin. :roll: Many animals will do that but never saw it as a sign of an allergy. Mine tend to do it more when they haven't been brushed or groomed. They love to do it on a chainlink fence. Has to feel good to them. I do the same thing on the edge of the door when I can't reach where I itch.

I'm sure it is possible for a dog to break out in something similiar to hives that would itch but I do know in most cases they are just rubbing because it feels good. I have one female that rolls and rubs on the carpet as well as the rawhide bone you give her for 5 minutes before she will eat it. Wish I understood what that is all about.

Ezzy

If their gums and eyes weren't red, I might think it was just an itch. I've given the one with the worst symptoms a 25 mg Benadryl tablet once or twice and it seemed to help. It may be too soon to tell with the new food but you can bet I plan to keep my eye on 'em.

Thanks,
Spike

I've also had several client reports of that behavior in relation to foods with a lot of salmon in them, but I don't think that's an issue with the Hill's product you were feeding. I have a dog that has a passion for rubbing his face and back on rugs, so it may just be a behavior with yours, also.

As far as the Diamond High Energy, it's a lower end food for that company, but seems to please the people who feed it.

Cajun Casey wrote:I've also had several client reports of that behavior in relation to foods with a lot of salmon in them, but I don't think that's an issue with the Hill's product you were feeding. I have a dog that has a passion for rubbing his face and back on rugs, so it may just be a behavior with yours, also.

As far as the Diamond High Energy, it's a lower end food for that company, but seems to please the people who feed it.

Nothing lower end that I can see. Suppose it could be though for the people who think they can tell quality from reading a bag instead of reading the dog.

Ezzy

Lower end pricewise, where High Energy falls just above Original in the Diamond lable in $/#. I kind of notice since I sell several tons of their stuff a week.

Cajun Casey wrote:Lower end pricewise, where High Energy falls just above Original in the Diamond lable in $/#. I kind of notice since I sell several tons of their stuff a week.

And of course you know that $/# has little to do with quality. I just always think when I hear lower end people are talking quality and not price. How many dogs do you think you are feeding out of your place. Selling several tons of just one of the many feeds you sell sure seems like a lot. A ton a week woulf feed at least 150 big dogs or more for that week.

Ezzy

With my prior pair of Brits, I used to make my own dog food. It was a real hassle but I was doing it about that time when the Chinese started shipping over the melamine in their wheat flour or whatever it was to cheat on the protein content test. That killed some dogs and made a bunch sick so I was glad for that reason that I was doing it then. The dogs loved that food and it was no doubt top drawer. Heck, I'd have been willing to eat it if it was cooked (I fed it frozen then defrosted only). Anyway, that was a lot of trouble and I'm getting older, uglier and lazier by the day. So if I can find a good food already made up, I'm for it.

Meanwhile, I'm grateful for the input from everyone and I will judge this new food by how the dogs respond to it. Again, so far so good.

Spike

From what I have read, I really doubt that what you are feeding is the problem and there may not even be a problem. Of course, this is JMO.

Charlie

I made the mistake of stopping into a Chuck and Don's looking for my Purina Pro Plan Performance - which they don't handle. I say "mistake" only because they are fairly knowlegeable and alway engage me in discussion of alternatives to the PPPP. I consistantly leave there questioning what I am feeding my 2.5 year old Chessy.

The latest discussion lead to raw diet consisting of frozen meat meal. A couple of patrons swear by it.

I was looking for a lower price point since the PPPP has increased in cost. I got "the advertizing budget gets rolled into the cost of the feed" which makes sense. Also got the "corn and wheat woule never be consumed in the wild, so why feed it to your dog" - makes some sense. "if you feed a higher quality you won't have to feed as much" - I guess so, but I'd have to be on the program for a while to find that out.

Bottom line - its confusing as heck and all I want to do is feed my dog a good quality food that doesn't force me to get a second job to afford it. No one seems to be in a position to really give a good recommendation - I always get "it depends" I don't have time to unravel the mystery, so PPPP it is until something hits me ove the head.

Try Red Paw. It is made in the Fromm plant and gets great reviews and seems to be easy to find in Minn. I believe it is priced like PPP. Nutrisource makes a nice food too, in some interesting formulas.

Here’s the status:
I’m currently feeding Science Diet Advanced Fitness and Diamond HH, 50%-50% and there is no gum-rubbing but both dogs are still a bit pink around the eyes (surrounding tissue). So, I have no real conclusions as to whether or not the food is contributing to the apparent allergies. However, the dogs’ digestive system seems to be tolerating the food switch well so far.

Further conclusions:
I’ve searched “dog nutrition” and related topics on Google and Google Scholar. There is a ton of opinions and not nearly as much science on the subject. Example: it is well documented and widely accepted that dogs are descendants of wolves. However, it’s not as well-documented nor as widely accepted that dogs are carnivores. Some opinions are “yes,” while others are “no.” Also, there is evidence that the nutritional requirements of domestic dogs may have likely evolved/changed from that of wolves. And further that the various types (breeds) may have different nutritional requirements based on their body types, activity and evolution. It doesn’t take a PhD in canine nutrition to decide that the nutritional requirements of a sled dog is likely different, and probably a LOT different, from that of a Yorkie or that young dogs likely have different nutritional requirements from old dogs, etc., etc.

I found this on the Alabama Cooperative Extension System’s site (http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/U/UNP-0035/):

Although canines (dogs) are classified as carnivores, they like a variety of foods. Different foodstuffs are mixed to provide a balanced diet that meets the dog's nutrient requirements at a specific stage of life. Whether commercially manufactured or home prepared, dogs need to consume a nutritionally complete diet daily to keep them physically fit and healthy. Like humans, dogs have requirements for essential food constituents such as carbohydrates, fats, proteins, vitamins, minerals, and water.
________________________________________
Nutrients
Carbohydrates. Although there is no known dietary requirement for carbohydrates in dogs, they are an excellent source of energy…

Now here’s what I presume is a respected university writing essentially, “Dogs have a requirement for carbohydrates and there is no known dietary requirements for carbohydrates.” Huh? What have I missed? No wonder we’re all confused and turn to anecdotal stuff like, “This works for me…” At least there is evidence that one solution appears to have worked for one person.

I own Donald Strombeck’s book: Home-prepared Dog & Cat Diets, The Healthful Alternative. Strombeck is a DVM and PhD. He’s a Prof. Emeritus, Univ. of Calif. Davis, School of Vet. Int. Medicine, widely published, has numerous awards and was a practicing vet for over 40 years. And I have ordered: Canine and Feline Nutrition, 3rd Edition, by Case, Daristotle, Hayek & Raasch and, Canine Nutrition by Lowell Ackerman, DVM and will try to get at least a little “educated” on the subject.

But, at the end of the day, I'm thinking we learn what we can, try to do right by our dogs and once we get something that seems OK, we probably resort to, “If it’s working, don’t fix it.”

If I learn anything that I think others might find useful, I'll try to post it.

Thanks again to everyone for posting.

PS, here's something that talks about nutritional requirement differences in breeds: http://www.google.com/patents?hl=en&lr= ... 22&f=false

Carbohydrates. Although there is no known dietary requirement for carbohydrates in dogs, they are an excellent source of energy…

I think most any feeding test for dogs have proven this over and over. They can live without them as long as they are replaced with something else like fats but they are an excellent source of energy that comes so close to essential that we have found it is almost impossible to get along without them in a hard working dog if you need to maintain their weight.

That is why I want corn as one of the leading ingredients preferably right behind a good meat meal of some type.

Ezzy

Spike wrote:Here’s the status:
I’m currently feeding Science Diet Active Dog and Diamond HH, 50%-50% and there is no gum-rubbing but both dogs are still a bit pink around the eyes (surrounding tissue). So, I have no real conclusions as to whether or not the food is contributing to the apparent allergies. However, the dogs’ digestive system seems to be tolerating the food switch well so far.

Further conclusions:
I’ve searched “dog nutrition” and related topics on Google and Google Scholar. There is a ton of opinions and not nearly as much science on the subject. Example: it is well documented and widely accepted that dogs are descendants of wolves. However, it’s not as well-documented nor as widely accepted that dogs are carnivores. Some opinions are “yes,” while others are “no.” Also, there is evidence that the nutritional requirements of domestic dogs may have likely evolved/changed from that of wolves. And further that the various types (breeds) may have different nutritional requirements based on their body types, activity and evolution. It doesn’t take a PhD in canine nutrition to decide that the nutritional requirements of a sled dog is likely different, and probably a LOT different, from that of a Yorkie or that young dogs likely have different nutritional requirements from old dogs, etc., etc.

I found this on the Alabama Cooperative Extension System’s site (http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/U/UNP-0035/):

Although canines (dogs) are classified as carnivores, they like a variety of foods. Different foodstuffs are mixed to provide a balanced diet that meets the dog's nutrient requirements at a specific stage of life. Whether commercially manufactured or home prepared, dogs need to consume a nutritionally complete diet daily to keep them physically fit and healthy. Like humans, dogs have requirements for essential food constituents such as carbohydrates, fats, proteins, vitamins, minerals, and water.
________________________________________
Nutrients
Carbohydrates. Although there is no known dietary requirement for carbohydrates in dogs, they are an excellent source of energy…

Now here’s what I presume is a respected university writing essentially, “Dogs have a requirement for carbohydrates and there is no known dietary requirements for carbohydrates.” Huh? What have I missed? No wonder we’re all confused and turn to anecdotal stuff like, “This works for me…” At least there is evidence that one solution appears to have worked for one person.

I own Donald Strombeck’s book: Home-prepared Dog & Cat Diets, The Healthful Alternative. Strombeck is a DVM and PhD. He’s a Prof. Emeritus, Univ. of Calif. Davis, School of Vet. Int. Medicine, widely published, has numerous awards and was a practicing vet for over 40 years. And I have ordered: Canine and Feline Nutrition, 3rd Edition, by Case, Daristotle, Hayek & Raasch and, Canine Nutrition by Lowell Ackerman, DVM and will try to get at least a little “educated” on the subject.

But, at the end of the day, I thinking we learn what we can, try to do right by our dogs and once we get something that seems OK, we probably resort to, “If it’s working, don’t fix it.”

If I learn anything that I think others might find useful, I'll try to post it.

Thanks again to everyone for posting.

Great post. It all seems to be half truths when you read into it. I know one thing, my cousin has owned Weimaraners for 30 years and they have rarely eaten dog food at all....all table scraps and were all healthy and lived to ripe old ages. Go figure

ezzy333 wrote:

Carbohydrates. Although there is no known dietary requirement for carbohydrates in dogs, they are an excellent source of energy…

I think most any feeding test for dogs have proven this over and over. They can live without them as long as they are replaced with something else like fats but they are an excellent source of energy that comes so close to essential that we have found it is almost impossible to get along without them in a hard working dog if you need to maintain their weight.

That is why I want corn as one of the leading ingredients preferably right behind a good meat meal of some type.

Ezzy

Could Milo take corn's place? Cost aside.

yukonjasper wrote:I consistantly leave there questioning what I am feeding my 2.5 year old Chessy.

How much does your CBR weigh? How many cups of PPP do you feed daily to maintain his/her weight?

He is a lean mean 87lbs. I've fed as much as 6 cups during the summer workout - spooling up to and during hunting season and have dropped him back slowly to 4 this winter. He still gets out 3 times a day with varying degrees of intensity, but mostly not real intense. He seems to be maintaining his weight well and appears to be healthy.

The questioning comes from the lure of " a better diet, better suited to your dog, and in the long run cheaper or just plain cheaper than what you are feeding today". The better mousetrap.

Susie wrote:

yukonjasper wrote:I consistantly leave there questioning what I am feeding my 2.5 year old Chessy.

How much does your CBR weigh? How many cups of PPP do you feed daily to maintain his/her weight?

yukonjasper wrote:He is a lean mean 87lbs. I've fed as much as 6 cups during the summer workout - spooling up to and during hunting season and have dropped him back slowly to 4 this winter. He still gets out 3 times a day with varying degrees of intensity, but mostly not real intense. He seems to be maintaining his weight well and appears to be healthy.

The questioning comes from the lure of " a better diet, better suited to your dog, and in the long run cheaper or just plain cheaper than what you are feeding today". The better mousetrap.

Susie wrote:

yukonjasper wrote:I consistantly leave there questioning what I am feeding my 2.5 year old Chessy.

How much does your CBR weigh? How many cups of PPP do you feed daily to maintain his/her weight?

Maybe its different in Minn. but PPP is $49.99 a bag in NJ for 37.5 lbs, or $1.33lb. If you have to feed 6 cups or 1.5lbs that sounds very expensive.

$2 a day for dry food is too much. In Minn, you have a good selection of foods included the performance foods used by the mushers like Red Paw which is priced like PPP. Also two performance blends from Nutrisource that don't use corn gluten like PPP.

Tuffy''s Gold (Nutrisource) makes a PPP-like food for 75 cents lb.

Here PPP offers no value compared to what is available from others.

You are correct on the cost. It has risen lately and I am not able to get it from the local fleet supply for $38 anymore so as the costs rise, I begin to wonder when I hear I can get the same or better nutrition for less money per bag. Question is, how do you know which to go to - don't even start on Raw diet etc.

Very confusing and very frustrating.

Sorry if I've hijacked this thread.

yukonjasper wrote:You are correct on the cost. It has risen lately and I am not able to get it from the local fleet supply for $38 anymore so as the costs rise, I begin to wonder when I hear I can get the same or better nutrition for less money per bag. Question is, how do you know which to go to - don't even start on Raw diet etc.

Very confusing and very frustrating.

Sorry if I've hijacked this thread.

You know, because you live in Minn. I would look for foods made close to there. Nutrisource has a great reputation and that company has a 30/20 and 32/21 that look like great foods. Others in here use them. Red Paw is another available by you made by some sled dog trainers. The food is actually made by Fromm which has a great reputation for quality. Dr. Tim's is also an Upper Midwest food and that is a great one too.

I use Annamaet Utra which is made by the company that pretty much invented the performance diet in the mid 1980's and I get it for $48 for 40lbs and I use 3 cups. The company is in PA and I am in NJ so it is well known locally and not easy to get, but available.

Your dog and my dog probably have similar metabolisms. I have several friends in my weekend warrior group that were feeding 5 or 6 cups of PPP to Shorthairs and a Vizla and they switched to what I what I feed and brought it down to 3 cups.

So it seems to work. The Vizla porked up on 4 so my buddy got him down to 3.

You can also look at others like Eagle Power, Pro Pac HP, Precise Endurance. Compared to Diamond and Loyall, yes they are more money but compared to PPP they are less by the lb and less at the bowl.

So the question becomes: Do you need to always feed 30/20 dog food or are there circumstances when you can back off on the Performance feeds and are comfortable with ratios lower than 30/20. I'm thinking about age (based on physical development) or breed (certain breeds require 30/20 to maintain their energy level).

I know that the Native brand has a family of feeds that have different ratios that they recommend swapping out for different times of the year. I have a neighbor using that program for his lab mix - she is on the small side, so the increase in cost is not a factor since I doubt that he is feeding more than 2 cups a day.

As someone mentioned, the 30/20 seems to be arbitrary because of the quality of the protien and the fat - I'm also hearing that Protien is Protien and Fat is Fat - so contridictions abound.

I have no qualms about switching, but the 30/20 PPPP appears to be in a specific class of feed so straying too far without knowing the consequences is a little concerning. The bright side of Chuck and Don's is that they have a 30 day return policy, so if I try a feed and I don't like the results or the dog has issues, I can bring it back and exchange it. Only problem is they don't handle PPPP so I'd have to go back to the rabbit hole of picking another brand and hoping for the best.

The employee at Chuck and Don's recommended a powder to sprinkle over any new feed (I assume its a probiotic or acidophilis) to aid the dog in accepting the new feed. Seems like a good product at $4. I'd be interested in thoughts.

I've totally hijacked this thread. sorry again.

My personal opinion is that 30/20's offer the most value (cost to feed per lb) and the lowest carbohydrates without overproteinating the dog and spending good money on protein a dog doesn't need or even use.

From puppies to geriatrics, you can use them. Big dogs to little dogs, they can all be healthy and happy on a 30/20.

yukonjasper wrote:He is a lean mean 87lbs. I've fed as much as 6 cups during the summer workout - spooling up to and during hunting season and have dropped him back slowly to 4 this winter. He still gets out 3 times a day with varying degrees of intensity, but mostly not real intense. He seems to be maintaining his weight well and appears to be healthy.

The questioning comes from the lure of " a better diet, better suited to your dog, and in the long run cheaper or just plain cheaper than what you are feeding today". The better mousetrap.

I was feeding Taste of the Wild Salmon which is $51.00 for 30# (12th bag is free). I decided last fall I was spending way too much on dog food so I switched over to PPP which was $6.00 a bag cheaper and 2.5# more per bag. Well, two months later I noticed I was having to feed the dogs twice as much (to maintain weight) and instead of buying one bag of TOW every 15 days I was buying a bag of PPP every week! Needless to say were back on TOW...all my CBRs (4 adults and a 5 month old pup) get 1 cup twice a day and in the summer months when they are less active I'll bump them down to 1.5 cups per day. Firm believer that every dog is different and not every food is suited for them however, the "lure" of a better diet and better mousetrap has worked for us!

Cajun Casey wrote:I've seen those symptoms associated with feeding out of plastic bowls.

It is funny that you mention that Casey. My son is allergic to plastics. Couldn't understand how that worked until we saw the allergist. They told us that he was actually allergic to the accelerates that were used to harden the plastic. Plastic takes to long to harden. We humans don't like to wait so we have to find ways to make it faster. They are finding more and more kids becoming allergic to these. Never once thought about the dogs having the same issues. My dogs also use stainless but makes me wonder if it could happen. May also see it with a chew toy if it were the case.

Not trying to hijack but do you need to go about the same methods of change over if you are just dropping from one protein level to another within the same brand of dog food?

Joe

jcbuttry8 wrote:

Cajun Casey wrote:I've seen those symptoms associated with feeding out of plastic bowls.

It is funny that you mention that Casey. My son is allergic to plastics. Couldn't understand how that worked until we saw the allergist. They told us that he was actually allergic to the accelerates that were used to harden the plastic. Plastic takes to long to harden. We humans don't like to wait so we have to find ways to make it faster. They are finding more and more kids becoming allergic to these. Never once thought about the dogs having the same issues. My dogs also use stainless but makes me wonder if it could happen. May also see it with a chew toy if it were the case.

Not trying to hijack but do you need to go about the same methods of change over if you are just dropping from one protein level to another within the same brand of dog food?

Joe

I wouldn't think so because the fat content is probably lower too and the protein meals are the same. I had to buy a bag of Annamaet Extra once which is 26/15 and I just fed him cold turkey with no issues from the 32/20.

Well I had to purchase feed last night because I was completely out. I was pressed for time and ended up going to the dreaded PetSmart - which is usually very expensive, but I was coming home late, the dog had to be fed when I got home and so what if its $5-6 higher this go round. Low and behold, they were have a sale of PPPP $38. They only had one left (the clerk had to rummage around in the back to get it for me).

I found that the NutriSource wasn't that much cheaper than the PPPP, but if it is better and I can feed less, that would make sense. I thought I would try to switch over when this current bag of PPPP get to half or so.

Currently feeding PPPP, but thinking of switching to Blue Wilderness Salmon.

crazyboy wrote:Currently feeding PPPP, but thinking of switching to Blue Wilderness Salmon.

Why?

I have fed NutriSource Performance for a long time. to all dogs and puppies. Had to go to puppy food to prevent choking. Other wise it is the same. Reasonable through my hardware dealer 10 bags at a time. Lately the price has risen every month and I have some dogs who don't tolerate it very well. I may be feeding to much but my question is. I generally feed 4 cups a day If you can't keep weight on the dog and if you increase the food the stool gets runny where do you go from there? Wondering about higher fat and lower protein. Very interresting.
It seems like the more you learn the dumber you get.
Diamond Extreme Athlete has almost Identical ingredients to NutriSource Performance for about $25 less for a 40# bag.
I takes up to three months for the microbes in a dogs system to completly change from one food to another.
Are we all just being conned

ezzy333 wrote:

crazyboy wrote:Currently feeding PPPP, but thinking of switching to Blue Wilderness Salmon.

Why?

Because the bag is cool and it costs more! DUH

I have come to the conclusion that opinions are just that and feed for what you want, regardless of price or others opinions.

I generally feed 4 cups a day If you can't keep weight on the dog and if you increase the food the stool gets runny where do you go from there?

I'd look into a higher kcal per cup food.

ezzy333 wrote:

crazyboy wrote:Currently feeding PPPP, but thinking of switching to Blue Wilderness Salmon.

Why?

Stools not being solid enough, he chunks up quick, has some tartar on rear teeth already, and not terribly happy with the looks of his coat. There seems to be so many mixed opinions on feed.

I am sure glad feeding dogs isn't as complicated as some of these threads make it seem. In fact, it is not complicated at all.

Charlie

crazyboy wrote:

ezzy333 wrote:

crazyboy wrote:Currently feeding PPPP, but thinking of switching to Blue Wilderness Salmon.

Why?

Stools not being solid enough, he chunks up quick, has some tartar on rear teeth already, and not terribly happy with the looks of his coat. There seems to be so many mixed opinions on feed.

Going to TOTW PS from PPP is a dramatic ingredient change. Might want to try the TOTW Wetlands first. Fot that matter, from what you describe, you might like feeding raw.

crazyboy wrote:

ezzy333 wrote:

crazyboy wrote:Currently feeding PPPP, but thinking of switching to Blue Wilderness Salmon.

Why?

Stools not being solid enough, he chunks up quick, has some tartar on rear teeth already, and not terribly happy with the looks of his coat. There seems to be so many mixed opinions on feed.

Read that label carefully. There is more regular old Menhaden in that food than Salmon, not that it is a bad food but the price is not justified.

crazyboy wrote:

ezzy333 wrote:

crazyboy wrote:Currently feeding PPPP, but thinking of switching to Blue Wilderness Salmon.

Why?

Stools not being solid enough, he chunks up quick, has some tartar on rear teeth already, and not terribly happy with the looks of his coat. There seems to be so many mixed opinions on feed.

Stools not being solid enough can bee from feeding a little too much protein and/or fats or sometimes caused by worms in the intestinal track. Tarter is mainly controlled by the acidity level in the mouth and you can reduce it by feeding dry food and also providing something for them to chew on that will help scape it off. Don't think I have ever seen a case where a change of food made a difference though there are always ads how a certain food is better. And the chances are that the coat condition is more a product of lack of grooming and time of the year.

Ezzy

I just made switch to diamond naturals. Its 10 bucks cheaper per bag and seems to work great. Its formula very similar to ppp, which is what I was using. I been feeding the high energy for the fat value since my dog isn't a great eater and needs to keep up his weight.

My2 cents

Mikko2 wrote:I just made switch to diamond naturals. Its 10 bucks cheaper per bag and seems to work great. Its formula very similar to ppp, which is what I was using. I been feeding the high energy for the fat value since my dog isn't a great eater and needs to keep up his weight.

My2 cents

Which formula did you pick? Was it the Extreme Athelete?

Mikko2 wrote:I just made switch to diamond naturals. Its 10 bucks cheaper per bag and seems to work great. Its formula very similar to ppp, which is what I was using. I been feeding the high energy for the fat value since my dog isn't a great eater and needs to keep up his weight.

My2 cents

I've never seen any formula anywhere, similar to PPP.

What do you find unique about PPP?

Ezzy

ezzy333 wrote:What do you find unique about PPP?

Ezzy

Chicken, corn gluten meal, brewers rice, beef tallow.....

All four are good ingredients that are quite common in the dog food industry.

Ezzy

ezzy333 wrote:All four are good ingredients that are quite common in the dog food industry.

Ezzy

Well, we don't see eye to eye on this one then.