Gun Dog Forum

So my dog is just over a year. Started on diamond large breed but constant diarrhea so changed to ea and he did good but his coat doesn't seem shiny at all and he has flakes and a white dusty powder coming off every time I brush or pet him. So I tried just diamond chicken and rice, no changes except he doesn't want to eat hardly at all. What would you suggest? Unfortunately I don't have some of the foods others do around me. Oh also during this last bag I've had him tested, no worms and I give him fish oil pills once a wk. What should I do?

Put him back on the food he likes and keep brushing him. The time of year probably is having some effect but one of the very best ways to get more oil in the coat is brushing.

Ezzy

he's a gsp and gets brushed at minimum once a week. He also sheds like crazy but I was told thats common in Az with our everchangin weather 95 today but saturday is low 70's

I would try Pro Pac. The 44lbs bags are about $28 less the coupons and tenth free bag. A few guys on here use it and seem very happy. The company that makes it is Midwestern Pet Foods and I believe it has never had any quality control problems.

Add half a cup of buttermilk to each meal. Just try it for a couple of weeks. I think your dog needs some help assimilating the nutrients in his food. I have a couple of hard keepers this works on.

I've thought about ordering food from online too just to get things I dont have around here but I'm leary of doing it. I heard about buttermilk or plain yogurt too. When he was a pup I gave him whole milk once and he had the squirts bad after that. I'll try anything I just want him to like his food and have a healthy coat and good muscle without diarrhea.

Whole milk is not the same as what are essentially soured milk products. Yoghurt, cottage cheese, buttermilk, etc., tend to alleviate loose stools. Do you know the breeding on your dog? My skinny kids' momma was from Arizona.

mcbosco wrote:I would try Pro Pac. The 44lbs bags are about $28 less the coupons and tenth free bag. A few guys on here use it and seem very happy. The company that makes it is Midwestern Pet Foods and I believe it has never had any quality control problems.

33lbs bags.

Very happy with this feed.

Ok I'll try the buttermilk idea first and I'll brush more often. If that doesn't work I guess I'll try pro pac. I've heard about sportsmix and sportsmans pride and black gold and such. But heard good and bad. I've always heard diamond is great for the $ thats why I fed it.

FWIW, my little Shooting Dog, one of the hard keepers, and another dog are on Sportmix at the trainer's and their coats are not nearly as good as the dogs' who are eating Diamond Premium. I am using Dermoscent on one of them.

Ranger351 wrote:I've thought about ordering food from online too just to get things I dont have around here but I'm leary of doing it. I heard about buttermilk or plain yogurt too. When he was a pup I gave him whole milk once and he had the squirts bad after that. I'll try anything I just want him to like his food and have a healthy coat and good muscle without diarrhea.

i use CANIDAE ALS for toby my lab.it works fine .it is 44 dollars at feed mill for 44lbs.
you can get it delivered over net with free shipping for about same price.
it is in top 10 of dog foods.

i stopped using DIAmond foods after they poisoned some dogs with bad corn.many dog food co. use diamond to make their foods with other co. ingredients etc.

Last I knew of, Diamond makes Canidae.

What found are you looking for? I am in Gilbert and between the feed stores & Pet Club I can find most brands.
I do buy online and have had no issues with the food and it is cheaper + the place I buy from if you spend so much shipping is free.

Cajun Casey wrote:Last I knew of, Diamond makes Canidae.

You see how convoluted much of the dog food discussions are. Switch from one food made by Diamond to another food made by Diamond because he doesn't like Diamond. Someone else looking for a food because he thinks his dog's coat isn't quite as nice as he would like it and it probably has nothing to do with the food. Single dog owners who have all sorts of problems with a food and have to change and yet not a single kennel that deals with hundreds of dogs have a problem.

Oh well,

Ezzy

Petfooddirect.com, Doggiefood.com and Petflow.com all have free shipping and pretty big discounts for scheduled shipments. You can specify how frequently you want deliveries. No tax and no gas. For some it makes a ton of sense.

Doggiefood.com has great prices on Earthborn Primitive, which is very much like Evo.

It doesn't matter what you feed or how much it costs or where you get it if the dog is not absorbing the food. This dog exhibits some symptoms of decreased pancreatic function. A simple lipid test would address that possibility.

I just find it interesting as to why every little thing is usually blamed on the brand of food or the ingredients in the food, when in reality, there is not that much difference in the different brands, other than some are a better value than others. And by constantly worrying about the brand of food and changing brands, the dog is being done more harm than good IMO. And as already mentioned, it is always the people with only one or two dogs.

Charlie

I would switch to Loyall if I were you. That is the best for the price. Pm me if you need help locating a dealer. I have some connections and can hook you up with some coupons if you want to give it a try.

I sell a lot of $3.00/# food for allergies. Vets send people to get it. Most dog allergies are caused by agents other than food. Can you guess the top one?

Cajun Casey wrote:It doesn't matter what you feed or how much it costs or where you get it if the dog is not absorbing the food. This dog exhibits some symptoms of decreased pancreatic function. A simple lipid test would address that possibility.

You are good! Dog had a loose stoll and its coat isn't as shiney as someone would like in a desert environment and without seeing or asking any questions you have diagnosed the dogs ailment.
Dog Dr. move over, it seems office visits aren't needed anymore.

Ezzy

ezzy333 wrote:

Cajun Casey wrote:It doesn't matter what you feed or how much it costs or where you get it if the dog is not absorbing the food. This dog exhibits some symptoms of decreased pancreatic function. A simple lipid test would address that possibility.

You are good! Dog had a loose stoll and its coat isn't as shiney as someone would like in a desert environment and without seeing or asking any questions you have diagnosed the dogs ailment.
Dog Dr. move over, it seems office visits aren't needed anymore.

Ezzy

You do realize I work at a clinic and our protocol for client issues is to recommend appropriate testing based on reported symptoms. It might also benefit you to know that those of us active in the dog community who have quite a bit of experience with German shepherd dogs and minature schnauzers can spot a CP or EPI dog fairly readily, particularly when client reports are repeatedly confirmed by laboratory results. My concern with the original poster's dog is that the cause of the problem is not being sought or addressed.

Ummmmm...Diarrhea and bad coats. Seems like the first place I'd be looking is the dog food. While I don't feed it at home, the trainer thats kind enough to work my dogs during the Summer feeds Pro Pac and he is satisfied with it. There are suppliments that might also help. I would also not discount cajuns' advice about the "lipid test"., but I'm not smart enough to know anything on that issue. Good luck. Different dogs just react differently to different foods.

Cajun Casey wrote:

ezzy333 wrote:

Cajun Casey wrote:It doesn't matter what you feed or how much it costs or where you get it if the dog is not absorbing the food. This dog exhibits some symptoms of decreased pancreatic function. A simple lipid test would address that possibility.

You are good! Dog had a loose stoll and its coat isn't as shiney as someone would like in a desert environment and without seeing or asking any questions you have diagnosed the dogs ailment.
Dog Dr. move over, it seems office visits aren't needed anymore.

Ezzy

You do realize I work at a clinic and our protocol for client issues is to recommend appropriate testing based on reported symptoms. It might also benefit you to know that those of us active in the dog community who have quite a bit of experience with German shepherd dogs and minature schnauzers can spot a CP or EPI dog fairly readily, particularly when client reports are repeatedly confirmed by laboratory results. My concern with the original poster's dog is that the cause of the problem is not being sought or addressed.

Lover's quarrels belong in the new off topic forum. Thank you in advance for your compliance.

Cajun Casey wrote:Last I knew of, Diamond makes Canidae.

DIAMOND does processing of many dog foods. CANIDAE supply the ingredients .

ezzy333 wrote:

Cajun Casey wrote:Last I knew of, Diamond makes Canidae.

You see how convoluted much of the dog food discussions are. Switch from one food made by Diamond to another food made by Diamond because he doesn't like Diamond. Someone else looking for a food because he thinks his dog's coat isn't quite as nice as he would like it and it probably has nothing to do with the food. Single dog owners who have all sorts of problems with a food and have to change and yet not a single kennel that deals with hundreds of dogs have a problem.

Oh well,

Ezzy

when DIAMOND poisened the dogs,they used their OWN corn etc.CANIDAE uses their OWN ingredients ect NOT diamonds .i did not research all foods that DIAMOND processes for other companies.CANIDAE is not DIAMOND food.

when he was a pup I posted about food because he was on lamb and rice large breed puppy and had really bad diarrhea. I adjusted his feed several times but was overwhelmingly told he may not be digesting the lamb. So I switched to ea. His coat has not been shiny since our fall or winter times when he started being outside mostly all day. Well we blamed the cold weather, it's warmer now and I've let him inside pretty much the last 3 wks and he's had a good brushing and a bath. Two days after a bath he's covered in what looks like dandruff but when you pet him he sheds and your hand has a white powdery stuff all over. So I questioned on here about it wondering if it's his food. Sorry if that bothers someone but I felt it was ok.

Ranger351 wrote:when he was a pup I posted about food because he was on lamb and rice large breed puppy and had really bad diarrhea. I adjusted his feed several times but was overwhelmingly told he may not be digesting the lamb. So I switched to ea. His coat has not been shiny since our fall or winter times when he started being outside mostly all day. Well we blamed the cold weather, it's warmer now and I've let him inside pretty much the last 3 wks and he's had a good brushing and a bath. Two days after a bath he's covered in what looks like dandruff but when you pet him he sheds and your hand has a white powdery stuff all over. So I questioned on here about it wondering if it's his food. Sorry if that bothers someone but I felt it was ok.

Hmm.

Is the Druff worse a couple days after a bath, or has it been pretty consistent since the feed changes? How often does the dog get a bath?

Cajun Casey wrote:

ezzy333 wrote:

Cajun Casey wrote:It doesn't matter what you feed or how much it costs or where you get it if the dog is not absorbing the food. This dog exhibits some symptoms of decreased pancreatic function. A simple lipid test would address that possibility.

You are good! Dog had a loose stoll and its coat isn't as shiney as someone would like in a desert environment and without seeing or asking any questions you have diagnosed the dogs ailment.
Dog Dr. move over, it seems office visits aren't needed anymore.

Ezzy

You do realize I work at a clinic and our protocol for client issues is to recommend appropriate testing based on reported symptoms. It might also benefit you to know that those of us active in the dog community who have quite a bit of experience with German shepherd dogs and minature schnauzers can spot a CP or EPI dog fairly readily, particularly when client reports are repeatedly confirmed by laboratory results. My concern with the original poster's dog is that the cause of the problem is not being sought or addressed.

And you might be interested to know that any licenced vet WILL NOT diagnose a problem on the Internet and the reason why is they can't do it reliably or accurately. It is the difference between someone needing to be right and someone who is really impressed with the little knowledge they have and their need to exhibit it. I am not impressed nor do we need it on a public forum like we have here. Do yourself a favor and take note. You have already recommended a test that has nothing to do with this problem which if taken to heart would do nothing but cost the OP a lot of money for nothing.

Ezzy

Ezzy

Baths no more than once a month usually every other month. The dandruff has been consistent since early fall season. So no its not from the bath. The bath helps wash it away for a day or so.

Ranger351 wrote:So my dog is just over a year. Started on diamond large breed but constant diarrhea so changed to ea and he did good but his coat doesn't seem shiny at all and he has flakes and a white dusty powder coming off every time I brush or pet him. So I tried just diamond chicken and rice, no changes except he doesn't want to eat hardly at all. What would you suggest? Unfortunately I don't have some of the foods others do around me. Oh also during this last bag I've had him tested, no worms and I give him fish oil pills once a wk. What should I do?

Our GSPs are both on EVO Turkey/Chicken: one is going to be five this year (58lbs) the other will be one at the end of this month (55lbs -- a BIG boy!). It is ~43% protein.

Both dogs are well muscled with shiny coats, and tons of energy. With it being "off season' down here (too hot to hunt or field trial) they are getting 2.5 cups per day.

My experience when feeding a higher protein, more calorie dense food if you feed too much of it, the dog may wind up with diarrhea (as well as put on too much weight). So it may take a little time to "dial in" the right amount.

FWIW,

Dang mines 55 lbs and I always thought he was smaller compared to other gsp I see.

Ranger351 wrote:Dang mines 55 lbs and I always thought he was smaller compared to other gsp I see.

Most of my boys are 55 - 65#, 24" - 27". My midget Shooting Dog is 23" x 45#.

Ranger351 wrote:when he was a pup I posted about food because he was on lamb and rice large breed puppy and had really bad diarrhea. I adjusted his feed several times but was overwhelmingly told he may not be digesting the lamb. So I switched to ea. His coat has not been shiny since our fall or winter times when he started being outside mostly all day. Well we blamed the cold weather, it's warmer now and I've let him inside pretty much the last 3 wks and he's had a good brushing and a bath. Two days after a bath he's covered in what looks like dandruff but when you pet him he sheds and your hand has a white powdery stuff all over. So I questioned on here about it wondering if it's his food. Sorry if that bothers someone but I felt it was ok.

What is ea?

Try a dandruff shampoo to wash the dog. If he gets no more than 1 bath every other month it will not be costly and you may alleviate a majority of the skin issues with one wash. I would bet that the reason many 100+ dog owners never complain about the junk that the 1 dog owners seem to do on here is due to the closer contact the owner has with his/her one dog. Mostly inside dogs at that. Not as big of a deal when a dog is sloughing off skin and hair outside vs. all over your kitchen floor.

Ea is extreme athlete made by diamond. Yes my dog is in and out and a huge part of our family. But I also notice when his crate has enough hair in it to make a wig.

I worked at a vet clinic where we had a doberman as a clinic mascot. She was fed Brand A most of her life with good results. Then she developed a nasty coat and skin and some digestive issues. Vet ran all kinds of tests which came back normal. A few of us coworkers suggested maybe it was her food. Vet said, 'oh no, can't be...millions of dogs eat this brand and they are all fine.' But finally he switched to Brand B, and lo and behold the dog's condition went back to good. Both dog food brands were mainstream, not the cheapest but not specialized or considered premium either. The ingredients were similar in both, but apparently something in the one didn't agree with the dog, while the formulation of the other worked for her. Maybe it was something like how some people have to stay away from onions but otherwise can consume what they want

Some dogs blow their coats at odd times and it takes a while to complete the process. One of my setters does that and his hair comes out in gobs. But If your dog's coat is not what you know to be normal for him, it's harsh and stinky, and doesn't respond to normal care like bathing and brushing, you might want to have him checked by the vet to see if there's something like seborrhea or mange going on. Then if that comes back clear, change to a different brand of food that you can afford and is readily available and see how it goes.

Simple steps first, before you get into super-premium esoteric feeds and pancreatic testing :roll:

have you talked to your vet about this ? if so what did they recommend? we have a short hair that has a bit of dry skin from time to time. our vet said to give fish oil and go easy on the bathing twice a year or so because it strips the coat of oil. if he has been in the pond or some nasty mud i hose him off but no soap. it seemed to help some. we feed PPP and buy fish oil from aldi because its cheaper. 4 capsules every other day or so . i just nick the end and squeeze over his food. good luck with this hope your dog gets better

My vet suggested the fish oil as well. I use the same method. But I'm doing one pill a day. Well I bought some extreme athlete and some buttermilk so I'll give it a try. Thanks for all the advice and feel free to give any more suggestions.

As I was talking to a professional guide one time, the subject of dog food came up. He told me that he had seen a dog with the slickest shiniest coat he had ever seen. He had to ask this guy what he was feeding and the answer he got was that it was a brand from Walmart called Ol'Roy. Go figure.

Charlie

Hey Charlie,...I heard that same conversation. It took place at a Wal Mart. He was talking to Sam Walton On a bit more serious note. I use to hunt in Falfurris,Tx (deep south Texas). It had a very, very small Wal Mart. The rumor was it was only Wal Mart in the country that did not make a profit. But Sam Walton owned a ranch in the same county and always wanted to keep it open to have easy access to Ol' Roy. Ya never know.

If somebody has worries about their dog's coat. Go run them in tall grass in the rain. I swear it is better for a dog's coat than an Oprah Winfrey makeover.

Ralph Ford wrote:If somebody has worries about their dog's coat. Go run them in tall grass in the rain. I swear it is better for a dog's coat than an Oprah Winfrey makeover.

There are a hundred reasons for the condition of your dogs coat and feed is just one of the least important of those reasons. Weather, environment, housing, time of year, exercise, how much and in what conditions. These are a few of the ones that are usually responsible but then there are some internal reasons also.

This thing I keep reading about individual dogs need different foods is so over done. If this was common we would not have feeding direction for every type of animal including man. WE all know there is an individual in every specie that has a problem with ordinary diets but it is quite rare when they are eating a good diet. Can you just imagine what it would look like if we had to feed every pig, calf, lamb, chicken, turkey, and duck a special diet when there are thousands in the feedlot. But because we have a thousand different dog food companies trying to stay in business and putting out a lot of false or misleading info in their marketing campaign and we have a lot of uninformed pet owners who tend to believe all of the propaganda we have ended up where we are today. I have always been amazed that is you tell people they will get airsick when they fly often enough they will get airsick. And the same phenomenon exists with our dogs. If you tell people often enough that the poor feed they are feeding will lead to poor coats and reduced energy amongst other things often enough they will find those exact symptoms in their dog and will think they need to switch to a better food even when there is no such thing, and almost every time it will work for a while in their minds but then they will start the cycle all over in a while. These are the people I call rainbow chasers but they never find the pot of gold either.

Ezzy

bossman wrote:Hey Charlie,...I heard that same conversation. It took place at a Wal Mart. He was talking to Sam Walton On a bit more serious note. I use to hunt in Falfurris,Tx (deep south Texas). It had a very, very small Wal Mart. The rumor was it was only Wal Mart in the country that did not make a profit. But Sam Walton owned a ranch in the same county and always wanted to keep it open to have easy access to Ol' Roy. Ya never know.

Just to be clear Jerry, I wouldn't feed or recommend Ol'Roy for working dogs. And I am pretty sure the dog's coat had nothing to do with Ol'Roy.

Charlie

ezzy333 wrote:

Ralph Ford wrote:If somebody has worries about their dog's coat. Go run them in tall grass in the rain. I swear it is better for a dog's coat than an Oprah Winfrey makeover.

There are a hundred reasons for the condition of your dogs coat and feed is just one of the least important of those reasons. Weather, environment, housing, time of year, exercise, how much and in what conditions. These are a few of the ones that are usually responsible but then there are some internal reasons also.

This thing I keep reading about individual dogs need different foods is so over done. If this was common we would not have feeding direction for every type of animal including man. WE all know there is an individual in every specie that has a problem with ordinary diets but it is quite rare when they are eating a good diet. Can you just imagine what it would look like if we had to feed every pig, calf, lamb, chicken, turkey, and duck a special diet when there are thousands in the feedlot. But because we have a thousand different dog food companies trying to stay in business and putting out a lot of false or misleading info in their marketing campaign and we have a lot of uninformed pet owners who tend to believe all of the propaganda we have ended up where we are today. I have always been amazed that is you tell people they will get airsick when they fly often enough they will get airsick. And the same phenomenon exists with our dogs. If you tell people often enough that the poor feed they are feeding will lead to poor coats and reduced energy amongst other things often enough they will find those exact symptoms in their dog and will think they need to switch to a better food even when there is no such thing, and almost every time it will work for a while in their minds but then they will start the cycle all over in a while. These are the people I call rainbow chasers but they never find the pot of gold either.

Ezzy

Al, you make a great point about overdoing on it. I can't imagine that bok choy and juniper berries are useful for a dog but the comparison to livestock is puzzling. All the animals you mentioned are bred and fed to be killed generally in a few months, so what does that point have to do with our dogs?

So, if one of your dogs couldn't tolerate chicken anymore and you had to use fish or red meat you wouldn't accommodate the animal?

Hey Charlie, As always, I'm with "ya"!

We haven't talked much about exercise. With my GSPs, it certainly appears their coats are better with more daily outdoor exercise and I'm not talking about walks on a leash. The less time they spend cooped up in indoor conditions the better. I only have six currently but I guess I've been lucky as I've never had an issue with energy or coats regardless of food fed. Three are indoors with me.

As far as shedding just make sure the furniture & flooring match the dog(s) you own.

I feed my new pup an egg every so often. her coat is very shiny, my steers get grass hay and a corn/oats mix, the chickens get scratch grain of cracked corn and a few other grains.... lot of stuffed shirt going on here.

My dog food is PMI nutrition, diomond gives then the runs I gots 6 shorthairs here now. Hrses get grass hay and oats once in awhie when I had them. All did very well..

These feed threads make me smile so keep it up I need the entertainment.

Omaha Vacinne has an online Dr. vet will give out advice.

Mark says, "My dog food is PMI nutrition, diomond gives then the runs I gots 6 shorthairs here now. Hrses get grass hay and oats once in awhie when I had them. All did very well..

These feed threads make me smile so keep it up I need the entertainment."



Is that all Diamond, or just the Lamb n Rice from the Eastern seaboard?

Ralph Ford wrote:Mark says, "My dog food is PMI nutrition, diomond gives then the runs I gots 6 shorthairs here now. Hrses get grass hay and oats once in awhie when I had them. All did very well..

These feed threads make me smile so keep it up I need the entertainment."



Is that all Diamond, or just the Lamb n Rice from the Eastern seaboard?

PMI is also made at Diamond

mcbosco wrote:

Ralph Ford wrote:Mark says, "My dog food is PMI nutrition, diomond gives then the runs I gots 6 shorthairs here now. Hrses get grass hay and oats once in awhie when I had them. All did very well..

These feed threads make me smile so keep it up I need the entertainment."



Is that all Diamond, or just the Lamb n Rice from the Eastern seaboard?

PMI is also made at Diamond

PMI is made by Purina Mills, Inc., who also makes Exclusive. It is not a Diamond product. This is not Nestle Purina, but the old Checkerboard Farms company that makes livestock feed also. The Diamond recall is for Naturals Lamb and Rice from Gaston, South Carolina. Other products from that plant are on shipping hold pending testing.