The Rotation Diet

cptn · Post by **cptn** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:15 am

I am getting a puppy in a few weeks, and I have been researching what and how to feed him.

My current dog is on Wellness Core Grain-free. She is two years old, and we've discovered rotating dog foods, and we want to get her started. We switched from her last food to this food with ease. We started to do it gradually, but she would eat around the old food to get the new food, and there was no stomach upset at all. We ended up switching cold turkey!

We got her when she was already an adult, so it will be a new experience with a puppy.

I was wondering if any of you do the rotation diet? There are several variations, and if you use it, I'd love to know your method.

I plan on sticking with grain-free and holistic foods for my new puppy, but I am not sure if it is healthy for the developing stomach of a puppy to begin the rotation diet. Should I wait until he is six months or a year? Should I do it at all? Is grain-free to high in protein for a young, growing pup?

I am going to begin with Wellness Just for Puppy and then on the weekends or once a week, a can of wet food from Blue Buffalo for a variety of nutrients. Is this okay, or should I alter my feeding method?

How do you feed your dog?

Angus · Post by **Angus** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:21 am

What breed is the pup that you are getting? A medium sized gundog would be fine on a good als formula adult dog food. A large or giant breed may do better on a feed formulated for them.

My opinion on the rotation diet is, it's not really needed. I don't even switch to a maientenance feed in the off season. I feel that it's better for the dog to keep with the same feed once you find something that works good. SOmetimes you have to switch feed do to supply, formula changes, pet reaction, etc. To each their own I guess.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:00 am

cptn wrote:I am getting a puppy in a few weeks, and I have been researching what and how to feed him.

My current dog is on Wellness Core Grain-free. She is two years old, and we've discovered rotating dog foods, and we want to get her started. We switched from her last food to this food with ease. We started to do it gradually, but she would eat around the old food to get the new food, and there was no stomach upset at all. We ended up switching cold turkey!

We got her when she was already an adult, so it will be a new experience with a puppy.

I was wondering if any of you do the rotation diet? There are several variations, and if you use it, I'd love to know your method.

I plan on sticking with grain-free and holistic foods for my new puppy, but I am not sure if it is healthy for the developing stomach of a puppy to begin the rotation diet. Should I wait until he is six months or a year? Should I do it at all? Is grain-free to high in protein for a young, growing pup?

I am going to begin with Wellness Just for Puppy and then on the weekends or once a week, a can of wet food from Blue Buffalo for a variety of nutrients. Is this okay, or should I alter my feeding method?

How do you feed your dog?

Animals are not people, they do not want different feeds and don't need it. For a matter of fact it is the easiest way to produce a finicky eater plus a who;e lot of digestive problems. Rotation feeding is just another marketing tool that appeals to the pet owners who do not understand their pet is a dog and will be healthier and happier if it gets treated like one.

Ezzy

cptn · Post by **cptn** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:44 am

Angus, I am getting an American Brittany! Thank you for your insight!

And Ezzy, understandable!

However. I have simply read that rotation allows for your dog to get some nutrients that one food may not have; I had no intention of humanizing my dog. Though I will say, he will definitely be a big part of my family, regardless of his dog status, hah.

In the wild, they have a choice to experience more variety than they would in a household, and I just want my dog to have that same privilege, since, like you said, they are animals.

Another thing I have read has professed that sometimes the reason why digestive problems occur is because of the lack of variety. If the digestive system is introduced, it becomes accustomed to change.

Though, if there is no need, perhaps I should reconsider. Like I said, I've rotated with my other dog, but she has a stomach of steel and has not experienced any digestive problems or finicky eating habits.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:04 am

cptn wrote:Angus, I am getting an American Brittany! Thank you for your insight!

And Ezzy, understandable!

However. I have simply read that rotation allows for your dog to get some nutrients that one food may not have; I had no intention of humanizing my dog. Though I will say, he will definitely be a big part of my family, regardless of his dog status, hah.

In the wild, they have a choice to experience more variety than they would in a household, and I just want my dog to have that same privilege, since, like you said, they are animals.

Another thing I have read has professed that sometimes the reason why digestive problems occur is because of the lack of variety. If the digestive system is introduced, it becomes accustomed to change.

Though, if there is no need, perhaps I should reconsider. Like I said, I've rotated with my other dog, but she has a stomach of steel and has not experienced any digestive problems or finicky eating habits.

There have been thousands of feeding test conducted to insure our dog foods have everything the dog needs in them. I have never encounter one of the dogs with a sensitive stomach I hear about and still have a great deal of trouble thinking that is even possible given all of the junk a dog eats when given the chance. However there are some that will eat anything and as much as possible while other will be somewhat picky and will never overeat. And there are some that do develop a tendency to be picky. I would take most of what you read as nothing more than someones idea or some companies marketing ploy to try and create business for their products and not what is best for your dog.

Ezzy

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:29 am

I have seen poor results from feeding grainfree to young puppies. Four months and up seems to make no difference. Taste of the Wild just introduced a series of puppy formulas and Nature's Variety Instinct has a variety of formulas that are supposed to be made to use in rotation. I would not recommend EVO because of the ash content for a youngster, but that's just from anecdotal reports from customers who have had problems.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:36 am

I have seen great results in feeding grain free to puppies.....so opinions are just that.

rotation feeding dogs is nonsense.....sorry JMHO.

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:46 am

Beware of feeding adult size kibbles to puppies. Choking is a possibility

cptn · Post by **cptn** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:36 am

So, to be safe, just stick with healthy dog foods with the appropriate puppy formula instead of strictly going grain-free?

And yes, plenty have been tested to insure that the dog gets what it needs, but many times, it is the bare minimum, filled with empty grains, corn, and little to no real meat or meal.

birddog1968 wrote:I have seen great results in feeding grain free to puppies.....so opinions are just that.

rotation feeding dogs is nonsense.....sorry JMHO.

What specific food brands have you and the rest of you guys fed your dogs during puppyhood?

Also, thanks for the tip, CJ. :]

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:58 am

Grain free feeds can be used but are never better. Dogs in the wild including yours when it gets a chance will eat berries, corn, and many other vegetables including horse manure, bird droppings and will clean the cat box for you. So forget the empty grain bit as it just isn't so.

As far as puppies go I usually feed whatever the adults are getting. The past few years that has been Diamond Premium or Diamond High Energy. I personally do not like to feed puppy food once the pups starts really eating. They do work fine for the first week or so but aren't needed so I seldon use any at all. I do not want the pups fat or growing too fast. You can run into too many problems later that I feel are at least influenced by too much weight and too fast of growth.

Ezzy

Angus · Post by **Angus** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:14 am

cptn wrote:So, to be safe, just stick with healthy dog foods with the appropriate puppy formula instead of strictly going grain-free?

And yes, plenty have been tested to insure that the dog gets what it needs, but many times, it is the bare minimum, filled with empty grains, corn, and little to no real meat or meal.

birddog1968 wrote:I have seen great results in feeding grain free to puppies.....so opinions are just that.

rotation feeding dogs is nonsense.....sorry JMHO.
What specific food brands have you and the rest of you guys fed your dogs during puppyhood?

Also, thanks for the tip, CJ. :]

There isn't anything wrong with corn or rice in a dog food when properly processed. I like Meat to be the main source of protein, with a whole grain rice or corn used as the binder for the kibble. I am not a fan of Corn Gluten or other protein boosters. Meat meals are another ingredient that depends on teh quality. meat meals that are "Low Ash" usually contain a high amount of Organ meat, which is a good thing. Cheap high ash meals I try to avoid.

I fed TOTW for years to my labs and they did well on it. My Setter pup had issues with it.

I feed Pro Pac High Performance and am very happy with it. Both of my dogs are doing very well on this feed. It is very high in calories per cup and saves me a lot of money. All ingredients used in pro pac are high grade/human grade.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:20 am

Rotating every bag of food is a bad idea, really kind of silly. However, if you change once a year from one protein to another there is no harm.

The stuff you read about on the internet is pretty stupid if you ask me.

And a good grain free is fine for a puppy. There are more grain frees with moderate proteins now, say around 30%. That is a good level for a pup.

Susie · Post by **Susie** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:21 am

ezzy333 wrote:Grain free feeds can be used but are never better. Dogs in the wild including yours when it gets a chance will eat berries, corn, and many other vegetables including horse manure, bird droppings and will clean the cat box for you. So forget the empty grain bit as it just isn't so.

If you knew anything about grain free foods you would know most formulas have fruit and vegetables in them. If my dogs had a choice of a bowl of rice or a trip to my vegetable garden it would be a no brainer...their favorite is ripe tomatoes LMAO

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:23 am

Susie wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:Grain free feeds can be used but are never better. Dogs in the wild including yours when it gets a chance will eat berries, corn, and many other vegetables including horse manure, bird droppings and will clean the cat box for you. So forget the empty grain bit as it just isn't so.
If you knew anything about grain free foods you would know most formulas have fruit and vegetables in them. If my dogs had a choice of a bowl of rice or a trip to my vegetable garden it would be a no brainer...their favorite is ripe tomatoes LMAO

Mine will knock you down for cherry tomatoes.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:26 am

Susie wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:Grain free feeds can be used but are never better. Dogs in the wild including yours when it gets a chance will eat berries, corn, and many other vegetables including horse manure, bird droppings and will clean the cat box for you. So forget the empty grain bit as it just isn't so.
If you knew anything about grain free foods you would know most formulas have fruit and vegetables in them. If my dogs had a choice of a bowl of rice or a trip to my vegetable garden it would be a no brainer...their favorite is ripe tomatoes LMAO

Hope that LMAO isn't painful. You make my point beautifully as you noted grain free foods always have to include some other vegetable to take its place and normally they are no where near as good as the grain would be.

Ezzy

Angus · Post by **Angus** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:29 am

No doubt about the Tomato thieves. Raspberries, Blue Berries, and Strawberries are a dog favorite as well.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:31 am

ezzy333 wrote:
Susie wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:Grain free feeds can be used but are never better. Dogs in the wild including yours when it gets a chance will eat berries, corn, and many other vegetables including horse manure, bird droppings and will clean the cat box for you. So forget the empty grain bit as it just isn't so.
If you knew anything about grain free foods you would know most formulas have fruit and vegetables in them. If my dogs had a choice of a bowl of rice or a trip to my vegetable garden it would be a no brainer...their favorite is ripe tomatoes LMAO
Hope that LMAO isn't painful. You make my point beautifully as you noted grain free foods always have to include some other vegetable to take its place and normally they are no where near as good as the grain would be.

Ezzy

While this is not true of every grain inclusive food, because there are some with top of the line ingredients, most grain inclusive foods just don't have the same ingredient quality as the grain free foods.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:34 am

Angus wrote:No doubt about the Tomato thieves. Raspberries, Blue Berries, and Strawberries are a dog favorite as well.

Celery as well, and he strips the pulp off the fiber.

Angus · Post by **Angus** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:35 am

mcbosco wrote:
Angus wrote:No doubt about the Tomato thieves. Raspberries, Blue Berries, and Strawberries are a dog favorite as well.
Celery as well, and he strips the pulp off the fiber.

I now put up a fence around our garden. Not because of the Rabbits, but because of the dogs.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:17 pm

Grain free is a bunch of marketing nonsense too i believe.....rice , barley..... are all grains and are in grain free feeds. Corn free would be a better description.

cptn- I feed diamond extreme athlete..... not one issue with my last pup from 6 weeks old. There she is in the avatar picture at 19 months.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:29 pm

How do you feed your dog?

I simply take a bucket with food that I can afford and is readily accessible, then I whoa my dog, poor the proper amount of food from the bucket into his bowl and give him the command "alright" and he is allowed to begin eating. I then go to the next dog and repeat.

Charlie

Susie · Post by **Susie** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:45 pm

birddog1968 wrote:Grain free is a bunch of marketing nonsense too i believe.....rice , barley..... are all grains and are in grain free feeds. Corn free would be a better description.

Could you a provide a list of these grain free foods that have grains in them?

Susie · Post by **Susie** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:49 pm

[quote="ezzy333]Hope that LMAO isn't painful. You make my point beautifully as you noted grain free foods always have to include some other vegetable to take its place and normally they are no where near as good as the grain would be.
Ezzy[/quote]

Believe me I'm in no pain LOL No one stated that grain free foods didn't include vegtables.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:50 pm

Susie wrote:
birddog1968 wrote:Grain free is a bunch of marketing nonsense too i believe.....rice , barley..... are all grains and are in grain free feeds. Corn free would be a better description.
Could you a provide a list of these grain free foods that have grains in them?

What's the point? "Grain free" is all marketing, like every other dog food, companies attempt to find an "angle to exploit", enjoy your dog and food.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:23 pm

Grain free foods cannot contain cereal grains, including barley, rice, amaranth or quinoa.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:45 pm

never ceases to amaze me how we over think feeding dogs.......in this age where we overthink almost everything. Marketing pure and simple.

You could feed your dog only varmint carcasses and they would do fine and they do equally fine on high quality feeds containing corn, wheat, barley, rice........

Heck back in the day it was Waynes and Big Red......all my dogs back then lived well into their middle late teens and hunted hard.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:18 pm

birddog1968 wrote:never ceases to amaze me how we over think feeding dogs.......in this age where we overthink almost everything. Marketing pure and simple.

You could feed your dog only varmint carcasses and they would do fine and they do equally fine on high quality feeds containing corn, wheat, barley, rice........

Heck back in the day it was Waynes and Big Red......all my dogs back then lived well into their middle late teens and hunted hard.

And before that they were fed corn bread, table scraps, hog feed, and sour milk with whole oats soaked in it.. Of course, we didn't know they couldn't live on that so we trialed, hunted, and had several show champions before they died a premature death when they were in those middle teens.

Ezzy

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:57 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
birddog1968 wrote:never ceases to amaze me how we over think feeding dogs.......in this age where we overthink almost everything. Marketing pure and simple.

You could feed your dog only varmint carcasses and they would do fine and they do equally fine on high quality feeds containing corn, wheat, barley, rice........

Heck back in the day it was Waynes and Big Red......all my dogs back then lived well into their middle late teens and hunted hard.
And before that they were fed corn bread, table scraps, hog feed, and sour milk with whole oats soaked in it.. Of course, we didn't know they couldn't live on that so we trialed, hunted, and had several show champions before they died a premature death when they were in those middle teens.

Ezzy

That may well be, but I remember when people used chewing tobacco and ground glass to worm dogs. They lived too.

Should we go back to the middle ages?

Ralph Ford · Post by **Ralph Ford** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:02 pm

Until just this year, I always fed a combination of three different premium feeds. I would mix them in a large trash can. My reasoning was that I just didn't trust any one manufacturer. I thought if one formula was lacking something, another manufacturer would cover it. If one manufacturer had an ingrediant issue, it would then be a diluted issue. I did that for years and years.
This spring I started buying Diamond Extreme Athlete at the lumber yard where I do enough business that I got feed at a 'perks' price. So far nobody has died!

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:26 pm

Thats a bit of a stretch "middle ages"? Really ?

Here's a dog raised on Waynes and Big Red......she looks like she suffered alot huh

(pic from early 70's)

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:35 pm

birddog1968 wrote:Thats a bit of a stretch "middle ages"? Really ?

LOL you know what I meant. Being nostalgic is fun, I get it, I said to my older boy last night that I had to get the new Springsteen CD and he giggled "CD"? We both had a good laugh. My father says he wants his Victrola back....but all three of us know that what we have now is better.

You can certainly go overboard I get that as well.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:40 pm

mcbosco wrote:
birddog1968 wrote:Thats a bit of a stretch "middle ages"? Really ?
LOL you know what I meant. Being nostalgic is fun, I get it, I said to my older boy last night that I had to get the new Springsteen CD and he giggled "CD"? We both had a good laugh. My father says he wants his Victrola back....but all three of us know that what we have now is better.

You can certainly go overboard I get that as well.

Agreed, i like the feed now but you still must admit alot of whats on the net is written by foo foo people for foo foo dogs (poor little things)

and the rest is marketing..... Pick a decent reputable feed for under a dollar a lb and your dog will look good and live long (barring the unforseen).

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:07 pm

birddog1968 wrote:
mcbosco wrote:
birddog1968 wrote:Thats a bit of a stretch "middle ages"? Really ?
LOL you know what I meant. Being nostalgic is fun, I get it, I said to my older boy last night that I had to get the new Springsteen CD and he giggled "CD"? We both had a good laugh. My father says he wants his Victrola back....but all three of us know that what we have now is better.

You can certainly go overboard I get that as well.
Agreed, i like the feed now but you still must admit alot of whats on the net is written by foo foo people for foo foo dogs (poor little things) and the rest is marketing..... Pick a decent reputable feed for under a dollar a lb and your dog will look good and live long (barring the unforseen).

I pay a bit more but not much, maybe $1.25 but not foo foo food at all.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:22 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
birddog1968 wrote:never ceases to amaze me how we over think feeding dogs.......in this age where we overthink almost everything. Marketing pure and simple.

You could feed your dog only varmint carcasses and they would do fine and they do equally fine on high quality feeds containing corn, wheat, barley, rice........

Heck back in the day it was Waynes and Big Red......all my dogs back then lived well into their middle late teens and hunted hard.
And before that they were fed corn bread, table scraps, hog feed, and sour milk with whole oats soaked in it.. Of course, we didn't know they couldn't live on that so we trialed, hunted, and had several show champions before they died a premature death when they were in those middle teens.

Ezzy

At the risk of being redundant, +1 on both of these posts.

Charlie

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:32 pm

LOL you know what I meant. Being nostalgic is fun, I get it, I said to my older boy last night that I had to get the new Springsteen CD and he giggled "CD"? We both had a good laugh. My father says he wants his Victrola back....but all three of us know that what we have now is better.

You can certainly go overboard I get that as well.

I agree with this also and the dog food we have today is probably better than it was years ago but I agree with birddog's point that too many people are over thinking it, when it is really pretty simple.

Charlie

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:01 pm

I will almost guaratee that every single dog represented on this board, including Sals, mine, and all the rest could be sent to a protrainers and fed what he feeds the rest of the dogs in his kennel, which will be considerably cheaper than the foo foo feeds we hear about so often, and 99 out of hundred will come back in better shape after a month or two than when they left. And I will also bet practically everyone of them will get the same feed and there won't be any cases of sensitive stomach, or allergies to the feed, or any other of the oft mentioned conditions of poor coat, bad ears, or hot spots. There has to be a reason those only appear on the net with the dogs kept as pets and normally in the house plus the ladies that have the show dogs that are considered their children.

I know this won't make me popular but it is something everyone needs to hear and take to heart. These are dogs we are dealing with and they have little in common with people other than their complete devotion to their master. But they still eat, breath, and are happiest when they are allowed to be a dog and do dog things.

Ezzy

Susie · Post by **Susie** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:11 pm

ezzy333 wrote:I know this won't make me popular but it is something everyone needs to hear and take to heart. These are dogs we are dealing with and they have little in common with people other than their complete devotion to their master. But they still eat, breath, and are happiest when they are allowed to be a dog and do dog things.

Ezzy

With 11,540+ posts here you must be right Ezzy333 :roll:

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:23 pm

I don't know why you would consider the number of posts but that is an accurate statement IMO.

Charlie
Edited: Just so there is no confusion, I am talking about Ezzy's last post.

bossman · Post by **bossman** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:52 pm

Well, got to take the opportunity to say on this one, with the exception of his choice of brand, I agree pretty much with ezzy

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:58 pm

Susie wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:I know this won't make me popular but it is something everyone needs to hear and take to heart. These are dogs we are dealing with and they have little in common with people other than their complete devotion to their master. But they still eat, breath, and are happiest when they are allowed to be a dog and do dog things.

Ezzy
With 11,540+ posts here you must be right Ezzy333 :roll:

Susie, if you would like to moderate the board for the next 10 years we might be about even, you think. would give me a nice rest. Nice of you to mention that as I sometimes forget why I get tired hearing the same thing over and over. But I will get over it and be my usual jovial self in a day or two. You do realize that is very close to 2 posts to each member we have. Sounds pretty good to me now that I think about it. Thank you,

Ezzy

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:27 pm

These food threads all turn out the same...

Post by **Sharon** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:04 pm

birddogger wrote:
How do you feed your dog?
I simply take a bucket with food that I can afford and is readily accessible, then I whoa my dog, poor the proper amount of food from the bucket into his bowl and give him the command "alright" and he is allowed to begin eating. I then go to the next dog and repeat.

Charlie

My 3 dogs + cat have to wait until I call their names too.Good time to remind them who pays for the food and calls the shots.

Oh they do hate it when I call the cat first.

Ralph Ford · Post by **Ralph Ford** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:18 pm

Ezzy,
While there may not be significant differences in feeds, I do believe the feeds that offer the Omega acids and glucosamine are a better feed than those that don't. I'm fortunate, as I mentioned earlier, I get Diamond EA for far less than most. I must admit, I'm bad about spending free money frivolously!