Lymes Disease Vaccine- Good or bad??

[C.painter]

I was at the vet today to get my pups 3 month shots. They highly suggested I get the lymes disease vaccine since I live in WI which is a hot spot for the disease. Just curious of what the word is on this vaccine?

Cory

[mcbosco]

I don't use it because there are risks and it is only marginally effective. Given that the overwhelming majority of dogs that actually get infected either recover without any treatment at all or recover quickly with a short course of antibiotiocs, I don't think the vaccine is worth it. With dogs, the Lyme vaccine has very little upside. The number of dogs that actually show clinical signs of Lyme is less than 5% of bites if I recall.

The current vaccine for dogs is actually very similar to the human vaccine that was pulled from the market a few years back because of side effects .

[BigShooter]

My favorite vet is a third generation vet with 40 years of experience & lives in the heart of Lymes territory. His words to me regarding the vaccine have been almost exactly what mcbosco said. My own research on the subject has not led me to feel any differently.

If I were a professional trainer in the heart of Lymes country responsible for owners' dogs, I'd recommend the vaccine to reduce my personal liability to a disgruntled owner.

[JIM K]

I don't use it because there are risks and it is only marginally effective. Given that the overwhelming majority of dogs that actually get infected either recover without any treatment at all or recover quickly with a short course of antibiotiocs, I don't think the vaccine is worth it. With dogs, the Lyme vaccine has very little upside. The number of dogs that actually show clinical signs of Lyme is less than 5% of bites if I recall.

The current vaccine for dogs is actually very similar to the human vaccine that was pulled from the market a few years back because of side effects .

certain parts of pa,DOGS HAVE LYMES.
toby my lab is in heart of TICKS in pa. CLINTON COUNTY.
HE GETS LYME SHOT AND FOR 9 YEARS DID NOT HAVE LYMES.
NOW HE DOES.

it affects his kidney bigtime and his joints are stiff and drinks water a lot and lost 13 pds.

its nasty,I WOULD HAVE LYMES SHOT.

[cjhills]

I live and hunt in the worst area in the USA for deer ticks and Lymes. The tick needs to be stuck on dogs or humans for 24 hours to give you the disease. Vacination is about 60% chance of working. Ivermec kills ticks that get stuck on the dog Biospot does a pretty good job of keeping them off to start with and is reasonable.
Only had one dog get Lymes and he was vacinated so We don't do that any more. If you feel better doing it go for it.
Are you sure Toby has Lymes and not reaction to all the Lymes vaccine or a false positive from the Lymes vaccine which also happens. Antibiotics are very affective if given soon enough before the kidneys are involved. When that happens it is pretty much game over. So if your dog is sick get him checked. CJ

[mcbosco]

I don't use it because there are risks and it is only marginally effective. Given that the overwhelming majority of dogs that actually get infected either recover without any treatment at all or recover quickly with a short course of antibiotiocs, I don't think the vaccine is worth it. With dogs, the Lyme vaccine has very little upside. The number of dogs that actually show clinical signs of Lyme is less than 5% of bites if I recall.

The current vaccine for dogs is actually very similar to the human vaccine that was pulled from the market a few years back because of side effects .

certain parts of pa,DOGS HAVE LYMES.
toby my lab is in heart of TICKS in pa. CLINTON COUNTY.
HE GETS LYME SHOT AND FOR 9 YEARS DID NOT HAVE LYMES.
NOW HE DOES.

it affects his kidney bigtime and his joints are stiff and drinks water a lot and lost 13 pds.

its nasty,I WOULD HAVE LYMES SHOT.

" Research from Cornell University Veterinary School however lists long term effects from vaccination as rheumatoid arthritis to “all the symptoms of actual Lyme Disease to even death via acute renal failure”. Dogs would be affected 4-8 weeks post vaccination with the Lyme vaccine."

Maybe 9 years of vaccinating caused it.

[JIM K]

folks, i am no vet. y vet said 9 yrs ago, YOU BETTER GET LYME SHOT. so i did for toby then.
up until now at 9=1/2 yrs old toby did not show positive on lymes.
last october he started to lose weight badly.
vet said INFECTION . he give him antis.
toby put 6 pds back on.
on his regular visit in march this year toby was positive on lymes.
back on antis again and he gave him a lyme shot again.
his lyme shots are always in march.

labs have joint problems as they get older too.

[northUpland]

Jim,

I wish you the very best of luck with Toby. If you believe your doing the right thing than you are! I have lived through one of my best dogs fighting thru Lyme as well as my own mother. It's a nasty thing. Clinical test mumbo jumbo aside- The way I see it, if it's even the slightest possiblity the vaccine can up the odds in certain dogs then I'll give mine that chance. Hey Mcbosco, for you to say what you said to Jim about him giving Lyme vac for 9 years as the reason for his dogs joint problems now...brother, that is the most narrow minded, most uncaring thing I have ever read on this entire forum ever. -Mark

[Sharon]

I don't use it because there are risks and it is only marginally effective. Given that the overwhelming majority of dogs that actually get infected either recover without any treatment at all or recover quickly with a short course of antibiotiocs, I don't think the vaccine is worth it. With dogs, the Lyme vaccine has very little upside. The number of dogs that actually show clinical signs of Lyme is less than 5% of bites if I recall.

The current vaccine for dogs is actually very similar to the human vaccine that was pulled from the market a few years back because of side effects .

Right on. Good advice.

http://lymediseaseguide.org/dangers-of- ... s-for-dogs

[mcbosco]

Jim,

I wish you the very best of luck with Toby. If you believe your doing the right thing than you are! I have lived through one of my best dogs fighting thru Lyme as well as my own mother. It's a nasty thing. Clinical test mumbo jumbo aside- The way I see it, if it's even the slightest possiblity the vaccine can up the odds in certain dogs then I'll give mine that chance. Hey Mcbosco, for you to say what you said to Jim about him giving Lyme vac for 9 years as the reason for his dogs joint problems now...brother, that is the most narrow minded, most uncaring thing I have ever read on this entire forum ever. -Mark

All I did was highlight the fact that many experts believe that long term use of the vaccine is associated with several serious side effects, which apparently mimic the disease. In no way was it meant to be critical.

[northUpland]

McBosco, I am very well "boned up" as you put it. I am just pointing that you're assuming the vac is the only cause of Toby's current health concerns...and to assume your armchair diagnosis is correct...is just that.

[JIM K]

when i first took toby to see dr.reese who is vet for at least 40 years.his son is in his practice now and they also operate and run 24hr clinic and they hunt too.he has 6 labs at home that he gives lyme shot too.

this is about my 10th dog with him and dad over years.
i said ,DOC I WAS READING ON NET THAT YOU SHOULD SPACE YOUR SHOTS ON MY PUPPY.
wow, he was pissed at me .

he said, JIM DO YOU THINK I WOULD GIVE TOBY ANYTHING THAT WOULD HURT HIM?

boy he was mad at me.from that time he has taken tobys toe off,.if not caught when he did it would have spread thru tobys lympnods.
too bad these ticks are getting out of hand.here in clinton county,pa they are worst i ever saw.
i was out fishing today on youngwomans creek and you cant even sit down along creek that they are not on you.
i had one down my pants as i write i few minutes ago.i checked my self good too.

take care

[frontline]

I live and hunt in the worst area in the USA for deer ticks and Lymes. The tick needs to be stuck on dogs or humans for 24 hours to give you the disease. Vacination is about 60% chance of working. Ivermec kills ticks that get stuck on the dog Biospot does a pretty good job of keeping them off to start with and is reasonable.
Only had one dog get Lymes and he was vacinated so We don't do that any more. If you feel better doing it go for it.
Are you sure Toby has Lymes and not reaction to all the Lymes vaccine or a false positive from the Lymes vaccine which also happens. Antibiotics are very affective if given soon enough before the kidneys are involved. When that happens it is pretty much game over. So if your dog is sick get him checked. CJ

Ivormec might kill a tick that's attached if it's within 24-36 hours of dosing, that is the biological half life. There's a lot of miss-information about Ivomec on this forum. Don't count on Ivomec to solve your tick problem.

[cjhills]

I live and hunt in the worst area in the USA for deer ticks and Lymes. The tick needs to be stuck on dogs or humans for 24 hours to give you the disease. Vacination is about 60% chance of working. Ivermec kills ticks that get stuck on the dog Biospot does a pretty good job of keeping them off to start with and is reasonable.
Only had one dog get Lymes and he was vacinated so We don't do that any more. If you feel better doing it go for it.
Are you sure Toby has Lymes and not reaction to all the Lymes vaccine or a false positive from the Lymes vaccine which also happens. Antibiotics are very affective if given soon enough before the kidneys are involved. When that happens it is pretty much game over. So if your dog is sick get him checked. CJ

Ivormec might kill a tick that's attached if it's within 24-36 hours of dosing, that is the biological half life. There's a lot of miss-information about Ivomec on this forum. Don't count on Ivomec to solve your tick problem.

Don't count on Frontline to solve your tick problem either. It has become very ineffective in our area and some vet don't stock it anymore. This is not based on any scientific tests. But my observations on my dogs, who run in tick infested fields every day and live in one of the highest Lymes disease areas in the USA. I"m not telling anyone how to medicate their dogs.
The fact is nothing works all the time. What you choose to use is purely personal between you and your vet. It is not going to be 100% effective, being vigilant, checking yourself and your dogs very carefully and often is your best chance. Lymes vacccines are marginally affective as any vet will tell you. They cause false positives on Lymes tests and over the years may cause the same symtoms as the disease itself. Just don't think your dog is immuned because he has had the vaccine and if he runs a fever or shows any signs of illness have him checked ,the quicker the better, antibiotics are very effective in most cases if started early. there is basically no cure once the kidneys are affected, except luck. THis is a fact of life in our area. Believe what you like.
I have known many people who had Lymes a few years back. Now it is rare because medical science Knows how to deal with it. If you get a tick bite go to the doctor, Most times you wont get anything and the tick needs to be stuck for 24 hours. You probably won't know how long it was on you for obvious reasons. But they will ask you. if you have flu like symptoms they will put you on antibiotics and you will be fine. Don't go and you will be very sick, in a lot of pain and maybe dead eventually.
It works for me and it will work for my dogs. CJ

[northUpland]

Great point cjhills, To vaccinate or not and which topical is best is open for debate...But when it comes to tick borne illnesses we should never overlook the obvious, cheapest, and most potent LD/RMSF deterent. Post run religiously include in your tailgate check; thoroughly brush or mitt out your dogs on the ground before loading up. It's worth the extra few minutes it takes! And check yourself...bringing home these micro nasties is not only left to the dogs!

[yukonjasper]

But when it comes to tick borne illnesses we should never overlook the obvious, cheapest, and most potent LD/RMSF deterent. Post run religiously include in your tailgate check; thoroughly brush or mitt out your dogs on the ground before loading up.

At the risk of being too obtuse, just wondering what "potent LD/RMSF deterent" refers to? I'm not picking up on the abbreviations.

also, are you saying that brushing a dog out will work? I was assuming that the little critters would be difficult to dislodge even if they haven't attached yet.

Are there any Tick mitigation programs out there that can be effective without making the area treated poisonous? Given the public health risks, I am wondering if anyone has come up with a method of killing and controlling populations of ticks in the habitat.

[mcbosco]

The ACVIM Consesnus Statement from 2006 is a good read.

[northUpland]

Sorry yukonjasper, I was refering to Lyme Disease as LD and Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever as RMSF. Brushing out post run is not perfect but being vigiliant and doing a complete wipe down and visual inspection is a helpful way to, at minimum, deter the chances.

[JIM K]

sprays today most you cant use daily.same with shampoos. some say every 10 days.
then you have dog that likes water.no doubt this weakens like the k-9 tick killer too even tho tube says it does not.

does anyone know of spray products you can use everyday and say shampoos that you could use everyday too.
to me, thats best way to stop these things is daily spray/shampoo of dog if hunting.
i know that when i come home i take shower and have not been bitten at all by tick BUT before i did if i did not shower.
i also use white sheet in truck on my seats and toby now goes in crate in truck,no more in back seat .

[mcbosco]

sprays today most you cant use daily.same with shampoos. some say every 10 days.
then you have dog that likes water.no doubt this weakens like the k-9 tick killer too even tho tube says it does not.

does anyone know of spray products you can use everyday and say shampoos that you could use everyday too.
to me, thats best way to stop these things is daily spray/shampoo of dog if hunting.
i know that when i come home i take shower and have not been bitten at all by tick BUT before i did if i did not shower.
i also use white sheet in truck on my seats and toby now goes in crate in truck,no more in back seat .

You can spray the dog down with 50/50 apple cider vinegar for extra protection. Insects just don't like acidic surfaces. I can hear giggling out there but it does work, but not for long.

[Cajun Casey]

sprays today most you cant use daily.same with shampoos. some say every 10 days.
then you have dog that likes water.no doubt this weakens like the k-9 tick killer too even tho tube says it does not.

does anyone know of spray products you can use everyday and say shampoos that you could use everyday too.
to me, thats best way to stop these things is daily spray/shampoo of dog if hunting.
i know that when i come home i take shower and have not been bitten at all by tick BUT before i did if i did not shower.
i also use white sheet in truck on my seats and toby now goes in crate in truck,no more in back seat .

Zero Bite by Pyranha, active ingredient Geraniol, is labled for use as necessary. Good contact killer and repellent, no residual other than scent.

[mcbosco]

sprays today most you cant use daily.same with shampoos. some say every 10 days.
then you have dog that likes water.no doubt this weakens like the k-9 tick killer too even tho tube says it does not.

does anyone know of spray products you can use everyday and say shampoos that you could use everyday too.
to me, thats best way to stop these things is daily spray/shampoo of dog if hunting.
i know that when i come home i take shower and have not been bitten at all by tick BUT before i did if i did not shower.
i also use white sheet in truck on my seats and toby now goes in crate in truck,no more in back seat .

Zero Bite by Pyranha, active ingredient Geraniol, is labled for use as necessary. Good contact killer and repellent, no residual other than scent.

That must smell good.

[Cajun Casey]

sprays today most you cant use daily.same with shampoos. some say every 10 days.
then you have dog that likes water.no doubt this weakens like the k-9 tick killer too even tho tube says it does not.

does anyone know of spray products you can use everyday and say shampoos that you could use everyday too.
to me, thats best way to stop these things is daily spray/shampoo of dog if hunting.
i know that when i come home i take shower and have not been bitten at all by tick BUT before i did if i did not shower.
i also use white sheet in truck on my seats and toby now goes in crate in truck,no more in back seat .

Zero Bite by Pyranha, active ingredient Geraniol, is labled for use as necessary. Good contact killer and repellent, no residual other than scent.

That must smell good.

It's herby, but not in a good way. Makes me think of weedwhackers on a hot day.