roading Vs. doggy backpack?
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HUTCH
roading Vs. doggy backpack?
I am looking for a way to add some muscle and endurance to my dogs and was wondering if anyone would know if the doggy backpack that you can add weight to would be similar to roading from foot? also can anyone suggest a good harness for roading from foot? thanks.
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Wa Chukar Hunter
- Rank: Champion
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- Location: Cental Texas and prairies of South Dakota
I have never used the backpack
But, I would recommend a roading harness from gun dog supply - I personally like the nylon with the clip instead of the buckle - Christies makes a good leather harness. Mine have chain drags and rope - attached.
I use 2-3ft pieces (about 6 lbs) for the younger dogs and 2-6ft pieces for the older dogs.
Keith
I use 2-3ft pieces (about 6 lbs) for the younger dogs and 2-6ft pieces for the older dogs.
Keith
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Wagonmaster
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When we road dogs, we generally stay away from adding a load that they carry. We will have them pull a load, such as a scooter, chain, or just pulling against a rope, but generally not something they carry on their backs. Load pulling builds endurance, and butt muscle. Load carrying may be hard on their backs.
What is wrong with having a dog build its muscles naturally? What I do and will continue to do is run hills. It keeps me in GREAT shape and also builds the dog up. You get to work the rear muscles going up the hill and you work the front muscles when going down the hill (in a controlled run - not just running down full speed). The dog also gets a great aerobic workout. I personally feel that dogs do not need to "weightlift." Let dogs be dogs naturally. Just my opinion.
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Greg Jennings
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Backpack kinds of load is not a good thing. Resistance to pulling via roading is what is done by most field trialers. Some use free-running with an ATV.
The field trial game, while appearing very traditional, is actually pretty open to new ideas. A good example is the cross-over in nutrition and conditioning from dog sledding.
Best,
The field trial game, while appearing very traditional, is actually pretty open to new ideas. A good example is the cross-over in nutrition and conditioning from dog sledding.
Best,
FC Snips Spot-On Shooter SH
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=3149
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=3149
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Wesley Boothe
I have to agree with DJ regarding dogs building muscles naturally. Granted I do not trial but I do hunt starting in Sept. and go through March. My dogs get a break in April, May and June and then I start conditioning them after the 4th of July until Sept. My conditioning consists of running fields and swimming and then swimming and running fields and then swimming some more. Come opening week we will hunt 6-7 hrs per day for the first 5 days and then 2-3 days per week through the rest of the season and the dogs have no problem keeping up that kind of pace. Anyway that is my approach to conditioning and is what has worked for me. Good luck.
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Wagonmaster
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In field trialing, we are trying to develop dogs into elite level athletes. There is currently experimentation going on, for example, with interval training, a kind of training that is used by human elite level cyclists and runners, among others, to increase endurance and speed. "Be all that you can be" in effect.
It is not necessary to do this level of training with a hunting dog. In fact, one of the secrets of using trial stock dogs for hunting dogs, is just to treat them like family members, not "hyper-conditioning" them or teaching them to run big off horseback. That strategy has worked very well for me.
You can, if you do not have access to open lands to free run dogs, borrow some of the techniques we use to condition trial dogs. But you certainly do not have to. Swimming, free running in fields, and certainly hill climbing do a good job of conditioning dogs sufficiently so that they will not go down on you in the early, hot days of the season. They will then get in progressively better shape as the hunting season goes on.
We write about some of these field trial and the similar sled dog techniques because they are interesting, and because people can borrow from some of them, to make a good hunting dog. But they are certainly not the only way to condition.
I will say this, though, there are quite a few people who just take their dogs for a jog on the end of a leash. That is better than sitting on a couch. But the cardio capacity of a dog is so much higher than a human, that sort of exercise is really not getting much accomplished in terms of conditioning the dog. A dog's VO2 max (ability to process oxygen) is three or four times that of the best human athletes. So if you want to condition a dog, you need to push it a little more than you push yourself. Because when you get to the hunting fields and turn the dog loose, it will work at a dog's pace, not a human's, and that is where a dog can get into trouble in the first, hot days of the season.
It is not necessary to do this level of training with a hunting dog. In fact, one of the secrets of using trial stock dogs for hunting dogs, is just to treat them like family members, not "hyper-conditioning" them or teaching them to run big off horseback. That strategy has worked very well for me.
You can, if you do not have access to open lands to free run dogs, borrow some of the techniques we use to condition trial dogs. But you certainly do not have to. Swimming, free running in fields, and certainly hill climbing do a good job of conditioning dogs sufficiently so that they will not go down on you in the early, hot days of the season. They will then get in progressively better shape as the hunting season goes on.
We write about some of these field trial and the similar sled dog techniques because they are interesting, and because people can borrow from some of them, to make a good hunting dog. But they are certainly not the only way to condition.
I will say this, though, there are quite a few people who just take their dogs for a jog on the end of a leash. That is better than sitting on a couch. But the cardio capacity of a dog is so much higher than a human, that sort of exercise is really not getting much accomplished in terms of conditioning the dog. A dog's VO2 max (ability to process oxygen) is three or four times that of the best human athletes. So if you want to condition a dog, you need to push it a little more than you push yourself. Because when you get to the hunting fields and turn the dog loose, it will work at a dog's pace, not a human's, and that is where a dog can get into trouble in the first, hot days of the season.
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HUTCH
thanks for all the great responses. I didnt like the idea of the backpack thing so I thought I would ask about it. I really wanted to road my dog just to get him a good workout in a shorter amount of time. I have been working alot latley and dont want him to pay for it with lack of exercise. plus I am packing on the pounds recently and my wife wants me to exercise 
. thanks again for the replies.
. thanks again for the replies.-
Ingrid
Hi, this is my first post here-
I do a lot of biking, and looked at the ideas on roading a while back- Has anyone used the "springer" bike leash attachment?
http://www.springerusa.com/
It would be great to take a dog on a bike ride and still have it be 'on leash'
Ingrid
I do a lot of biking, and looked at the ideas on roading a while back- Has anyone used the "springer" bike leash attachment?
http://www.springerusa.com/
It would be great to take a dog on a bike ride and still have it be 'on leash'
Ingrid
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Wagonmaster
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I have a "springer" but I use it very little. If you get going upwards of 12 mph or so on a bike, and the dog decides to suddenly stop to relieve itself or takes off after a rabbit, you are going down hard. I have done it too many times to do the bike thing again. The people who do bikejoring, as it is called, hold the lead in their hand so they can let go, to avoid crashes. I won't do that, because then you have a loose dog to deal with.
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LDC
Ingrid,
I've been reading this site for some time but have never posted before. But because you asked about the Springer dog jogger bicycle attachment, I thought I had better register and post a reply. I currently have mixed feelings for it for much the same reasons as John has alluded to above. For two years I loved it, but lately I’m not so sure.
My GSP Bart and I have literally logged hundreds and hundreds of miles using the Springer on the excellent hiker/biker trails we have nearby. On most weekdays, when the weather is cool, we run out 3 to 6 miles, stop for water and some obedience training and then blaze the 3 to 6 miles home. I then cool him out with heel and whoa training. In very warm weather we run early in the morning for much shorter distances (about 3 miles total), with frequent water breaks. On weekends its free running on hilly hunting terrain. Bart’s hindquarters are muscled like a plow horse and, in cool weather, he easily handles a morning 2-3 hour hunt, followed by a 2-3 hour hunt in the afternoon. He attacks the field as hard the last hour in the afternoon as he does the first hour in the morning. So I know the Springer can be used successfully as an alternative conditioner when you can't make it out to the field. But I agree with others that field training is definitely preferable for several reason if you can do it. But my daily schedule just doesn’t allow it four days out of the week. I should mention that Bart absolutely loves roading in the Springer. He goes nuts whenever he sees me pick up his harness. Speaking of harness, if you decide to try this, don't use the simple harness that comes with the Springer. Buy a regular dog harness with the D-ring on top at PetCo or such for about $15. I don't think a padded roading harness is necessary. He have never had an abrasion or rub that I could ever see.
My feelings about the Springer are mixed because last May Bart and I had a rather nasty incident. Up to that point, Bart and I had encountered hundreds of rabbits, squirrels and other dogs without too much happening. Whenever I spotted something I would apply some brake, steady the bike and command “EASY,” which my dog understands to mean as “slow down and pay attention.” Even if he lunged at the critter I was always able to handle the outward jerk (which the Springer dampens tremendously) and steady the dog. John is absolutely right about lunges at higher speed; it just ain’t fun. I should mention that my dog has always been much more steady and more aware of the bicycle beside him when he is harnessed to the right side of the bike, rather than the left. But you do need to work your dog on both sides or doggy will develop a muscle strength imbalance and begin to run a little sideways when free running.
So the first Saturday this past May we were out cruising a trail close to home a little before 6 a.m. I had pup on the left side, the bad side. By the time we had finished two miles (on our way to eight) we had already encountered about ten rabbits with no problem. But up ahead just off to the side of the trail and nestled in the grass were two very young rabbits that were small enough to sit in your palm. These bunnies didn’t know the drill, and I didn’t have time to slow down. When most rabbits hear the dog tags jingling and the dog running down the path they take off early and run perpendicular straight away from the trail. But one of these bunnies turned and ran straight toward us and crossed in front within a inch of my dog’s nose while we were flying along. Even with all of his experience and his great respect for keeping away from the front bicycle wheel, Bart snapped and lunged hard at the rabbit as it was crossing in front of the bike. Not wanting to hit my dog, I of course jammed hard on my new (and very impressive) brakes, with both myself and the bike catapulting over the dog. It’s funny how fast your mind works in circumstances such as these, as I clearly remember thinking as I was coming in for a landing “Don’t stick your arms out!” As I made contact I correctly noticed “You’ve stuck your arms out!” Happily, I literally seem to have vaulted over Bart and he was completely unharmed. In fact, he seemed to think that it was all very exciting. I, on the other hand, had a broken forearm and small fractures and damaged ligaments in my fingers, hands and wrists on both sides. Walking my bicycle and very excited dog home that morning wasn’t very fun.
So, Ingrid, if you decide to try a Springer dog jogger, wear a helmet every time with no exceptions and please be careful. The pulling power of a hunting dog is incredible. This summer has been a scorcher here, so as I am healing up most of Bart’s exercise has been limited to swimming four or five times a week and a nightly 45 minute trot on our treadmill. I found a cheap little dog toy called Chuck-It that, even with my wrist and hand banged up, can toss a tennis ball about a mile out into the lake for him to happily retrieve. I’ve been worried about Bart’s skin, coat and ears with all this swimming but he seems to be doing fine. With hunting season so rapidly approaching, I’m thinking about climbing back onto the bicycle and trying the old Springer again. But this time I will (1) shorten the line from the Springer to the harness so Bart’s head cannot extend beyond the front axle under any circumstances, (2) ride with the rear brake partially applied at all times to keep the speed way, way down, and (3) keep my hand off of the front brake.
Good luck and be safe.
LDC
I've been reading this site for some time but have never posted before. But because you asked about the Springer dog jogger bicycle attachment, I thought I had better register and post a reply. I currently have mixed feelings for it for much the same reasons as John has alluded to above. For two years I loved it, but lately I’m not so sure.
My GSP Bart and I have literally logged hundreds and hundreds of miles using the Springer on the excellent hiker/biker trails we have nearby. On most weekdays, when the weather is cool, we run out 3 to 6 miles, stop for water and some obedience training and then blaze the 3 to 6 miles home. I then cool him out with heel and whoa training. In very warm weather we run early in the morning for much shorter distances (about 3 miles total), with frequent water breaks. On weekends its free running on hilly hunting terrain. Bart’s hindquarters are muscled like a plow horse and, in cool weather, he easily handles a morning 2-3 hour hunt, followed by a 2-3 hour hunt in the afternoon. He attacks the field as hard the last hour in the afternoon as he does the first hour in the morning. So I know the Springer can be used successfully as an alternative conditioner when you can't make it out to the field. But I agree with others that field training is definitely preferable for several reason if you can do it. But my daily schedule just doesn’t allow it four days out of the week. I should mention that Bart absolutely loves roading in the Springer. He goes nuts whenever he sees me pick up his harness. Speaking of harness, if you decide to try this, don't use the simple harness that comes with the Springer. Buy a regular dog harness with the D-ring on top at PetCo or such for about $15. I don't think a padded roading harness is necessary. He have never had an abrasion or rub that I could ever see.
My feelings about the Springer are mixed because last May Bart and I had a rather nasty incident. Up to that point, Bart and I had encountered hundreds of rabbits, squirrels and other dogs without too much happening. Whenever I spotted something I would apply some brake, steady the bike and command “EASY,” which my dog understands to mean as “slow down and pay attention.” Even if he lunged at the critter I was always able to handle the outward jerk (which the Springer dampens tremendously) and steady the dog. John is absolutely right about lunges at higher speed; it just ain’t fun. I should mention that my dog has always been much more steady and more aware of the bicycle beside him when he is harnessed to the right side of the bike, rather than the left. But you do need to work your dog on both sides or doggy will develop a muscle strength imbalance and begin to run a little sideways when free running.
So the first Saturday this past May we were out cruising a trail close to home a little before 6 a.m. I had pup on the left side, the bad side. By the time we had finished two miles (on our way to eight) we had already encountered about ten rabbits with no problem. But up ahead just off to the side of the trail and nestled in the grass were two very young rabbits that were small enough to sit in your palm. These bunnies didn’t know the drill, and I didn’t have time to slow down. When most rabbits hear the dog tags jingling and the dog running down the path they take off early and run perpendicular straight away from the trail. But one of these bunnies turned and ran straight toward us and crossed in front within a inch of my dog’s nose while we were flying along. Even with all of his experience and his great respect for keeping away from the front bicycle wheel, Bart snapped and lunged hard at the rabbit as it was crossing in front of the bike. Not wanting to hit my dog, I of course jammed hard on my new (and very impressive) brakes, with both myself and the bike catapulting over the dog. It’s funny how fast your mind works in circumstances such as these, as I clearly remember thinking as I was coming in for a landing “Don’t stick your arms out!” As I made contact I correctly noticed “You’ve stuck your arms out!” Happily, I literally seem to have vaulted over Bart and he was completely unharmed. In fact, he seemed to think that it was all very exciting. I, on the other hand, had a broken forearm and small fractures and damaged ligaments in my fingers, hands and wrists on both sides. Walking my bicycle and very excited dog home that morning wasn’t very fun.
So, Ingrid, if you decide to try a Springer dog jogger, wear a helmet every time with no exceptions and please be careful. The pulling power of a hunting dog is incredible. This summer has been a scorcher here, so as I am healing up most of Bart’s exercise has been limited to swimming four or five times a week and a nightly 45 minute trot on our treadmill. I found a cheap little dog toy called Chuck-It that, even with my wrist and hand banged up, can toss a tennis ball about a mile out into the lake for him to happily retrieve. I’ve been worried about Bart’s skin, coat and ears with all this swimming but he seems to be doing fine. With hunting season so rapidly approaching, I’m thinking about climbing back onto the bicycle and trying the old Springer again. But this time I will (1) shorten the line from the Springer to the harness so Bart’s head cannot extend beyond the front axle under any circumstances, (2) ride with the rear brake partially applied at all times to keep the speed way, way down, and (3) keep my hand off of the front brake.
Good luck and be safe.
LDC
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Ryan
I dont agree with the springer for that very reason. It may be fine with a non hunting type dog (GSD or Border collie) but these hunting dogs are fixed on wanting game.
I would rather have them pull some chains when they run. But the best thing would be a coullee side and a tennis ball. The dogs get a great work out running up and down the bank. Even a swim in the canal on a hot day with a retrieving dummy works wonders.
I would rather have them pull some chains when they run. But the best thing would be a coullee side and a tennis ball. The dogs get a great work out running up and down the bank. Even a swim in the canal on a hot day with a retrieving dummy works wonders.
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TrueBlu Shorthairs
I also agree that the SPringer or any device similar is an accident waiting to happen.
I live in the country but still don't have the time or grounds to easily run my dogs for an hour even twice a week. I have to drive an hour to run off horseback. So, I am forced to road during hunting and trial season, and I hate it. If a person can run his dogs, NOT on asphalt or concrete, for an hour a few times a week, I believe it is far better for the dog physically and for conditioning. Nothing builds lungs like running up and down hills, through creeks, etc. Roading is hard on dogs imho. But, with time constraints, it's a necessary evil for most of us.
I live in the country but still don't have the time or grounds to easily run my dogs for an hour even twice a week. I have to drive an hour to run off horseback. So, I am forced to road during hunting and trial season, and I hate it. If a person can run his dogs, NOT on asphalt or concrete, for an hour a few times a week, I believe it is far better for the dog physically and for conditioning. Nothing builds lungs like running up and down hills, through creeks, etc. Roading is hard on dogs imho. But, with time constraints, it's a necessary evil for most of us.