A quick food question.

[KyCountry]

Hey guys.

New member here. I will be picking up my GSP female here in a few weeks and am just stoked. Never had a pointer before. I've been doing a lot of research on dog foods and pretty much keep coming back to Diamond. I'm in college and really can't be spending $1 a pound for dog food, however it's not like 'Ol Roy is the only thing in my budget. Is Diamond going to be the best bang for my buck? I'm also moving to a pretty remote area here soon so available is going to be a slight issue. Just making sure this is my best option. I'd like to stay around the 75 cent/pound ratio if possible.

Thanks in advance.

[ezzy333]

There are a lot of good dog foods on the market but I will say that Diamond offers more per dollar spent than any other I have fed or tested. But be sure to find something that is readily availaqble and then stick with it even after reading all the ads and posts on here that try to convince you there are better feeds. If your pup is doing well then you have found the best one there is and let the other people chase the rainbow looking for the perfect feed. Remember you have already found it.

Ezzy

[OKIEGunner]

KyCountry,
First contact the breeder and find out what he is feeding. If he has done his homework and is feeding a quality food, there is no need to change. Also keepthe dog on puppy food until 1 year old.

[ezzy333]

KyCountry,
First contact the breeder and find out what he is feeding. If he has done his homework and is feeding a quality food, there is no need to change. Also keepthe dog on puppy food until 1 year old.

I don't use or recommend puppy food.

Ezzy

[JIM K]

KyCountry,
First contact the breeder and find out what he is feeding. If he has done his homework and is feeding a quality food, there is no need to change. Also keepthe dog on puppy food until 1 year old.

I don't use or recommend puppy food.

Ezzy

i dont also. i feed CANIDAE ALS to put mixed with his puppy food for about 1 month.then all canidae.
no puppy food for 1 year.
diamond had issues recently and before. i would not use it. canidae is made by diamond but not with their ingredients.diamond makes many dog foods .

[KyCountry]

Thanks for the replies. I plan on asking the breeder when I go to pick her up, but I'm assuming it's out of my price range. And Canidae is as well. If not Diamond, than can anyone recommend any brand that's under $1 a pound? Brands like Loyall don't look to be available without a long drive.

[Greg Jennings]

If your pup does well on Diamond, go with it. You can pay more, but you can't do any better. I've had mine on Diamond Naturals. Both Large Breed Puppy and normal Adult. They do great.

[brule]

I'd almost bet the food the breeder is feeding is under $1 a pound. Most breeders are feeding quite a few dogs so don't like to feed the expensive stuff. If you can find Black Gold, PMI, Tuffy's, or Country Vet there's a few brands that will be in your price range.

[ezzy333]

KyCountry,
First contact the breeder and find out what he is feeding. If he has done his homework and is feeding a quality food, there is no need to change. Also keepthe dog on puppy food until 1 year old.

I don't use or recommend puppy food.

Ezzy

i dont also. i feed CANIDAE ALS to put mixed with his puppy food for about 1 month.then all canidae.
no puppy food for 1 year.
diamond had issues recently and before. i would not use it. canidae is made by diamond but not with their ingredients.diamond makes many dog foods .

Where do you think they store all of these different ingredients? There is no way possible to keep different ingredients for each kind of food that is made in a facility. There other feeds as good as Diamond but none can beat it for the price . Have fed it for years and never an issue.

Ezzy

[klewis]

I feed diamond premium havent found any thing better, good coats plenty energy,but dont overfeed . it dosent take a large amount of it for most dogs. jmo.

[CHJIII]

Just finished a trial month for 8 dogs on Tuffy's Gold. This month I'm doing a trial run on ProPac. I'll make my choice between the two when this month is over.

[mcbosco]

Just finished a trial month for 8 dogs on Tuffy's Gold. This month I'm doing a trial run on ProPac. I'll make my choice between the two when this month is over.

Those are both good choices. Good values and perfect safety records. Not sure why anyone would take a chance with a Diamond product if those two were avaialble.

[hpvizslas]

I fed Diamond for a while but started having issues and even though they said there was no change in formula, we noticed a difference. We have switched to Native by Kent and are very happy with it, we are feeding less, so the cost is evening out. Good luck on whatever you decide to feed.

[ezzy333]

Just finished a trial month for 8 dogs on Tuffy's Gold. This month I'm doing a trial run on ProPac. I'll make my choice between the two when this month is over.

Those are both good choices. Good values and perfect safety records. Not sure why anyone would take a chance with a Diamond product if those two were avaialble.

I think the answer why is clearly stated just a couple of posts ago. You must have missed it but I can tell you what it said.

There other feeds as good as Diamond but none can beat it for the price .

Also, neither you or I have any idea of the safety record of any company. All we know is what we read in the paper and that isn't too dependable whether we are talking dog food or politics. Same people with the same judgement and values of whats news and what isn't.

Ezzy

[mcbosco]

Just finished a trial month for 8 dogs on Tuffy's Gold. This month I'm doing a trial run on ProPac. I'll make my choice between the two when this month is over.

Those are both good choices. Good values and perfect safety records. Not sure why anyone would take a chance with a Diamond product if those two were avaialble.

I think the answer why is clearly stated just a couple of posts ago. You must have missed it but I can tell you what it said.

There other feeds as good as Diamond but none can beat it for the price .

Also, neither you or I have any idea of the safety record of any company. All we know is what we read in the paper and that isn't too dependable whether we are talking dog food or politics. Same people with the same judgement and values of whats news and what isn't.

Ezzy

You seem pretty sure that Diamond's safety record is as good as Nutrisource and Midwestern Pet Foods. The latter haven't had any recalls, or worse.

That is how some of us regular folk makes decisions.

[ezzy333]

Don't think yugo had any recalls either but I will still take Toyota as a better car. Recalls tll me a quality control program is in place and working. The problems happen in the mills and the quality control is what catches them. No recalls says nothing about the quality of the feed or it's safety.

Ezzy

[mcbosco]

Don't think yugo had any recalls either but I will still take Toyota as a better car. Recalls tll me a quality control program is in place and working. The problems happen in the mills and the quality control is what catches them. No recalls says nothing about the quality of the feed or it's safety.

Ezzy

Oh baby.....recalls happen after the food leaves the plant, so obviously the quality control system didn't work, right?

The proper quality control system catches these things before they happen, by definition. It is like risk management in my business, it is supposed to prevent losses, not inform you have a problem when it is too late.

[CHJIII]

I'm actually pleased with the pricing of both the Tuffy's Gold and the ProPac.

The supplier I'm using has Tuffy's Gold at $24.50/50lbs and ProPac at $23.00/44lbs. The Diamond Products are all similarly priced. I don't have any major issues with Diamond. My dogs just don't seem to like it as well.

[KyCountry]

Wow, thanks for all the info, guys. After thinking about it a little more, I realized I had been using numbers based on how much all my labs ate. Obviously, my GSP won't eat as much, which is a good thing. I also had never really thought about the dog eating less because a better quality food. This being said, I guess I could afford a higher priced food. I did some research and liked what I saw from Taste of the Wild and Native. How do these brands compare?

[mcbosco]

Wow, thanks for all the info, guys. After thinking about it a little more, I realized I had been using numbers based on how much all my labs ate. Obviously, my GSP won't eat as much, which is a good thing. I also had never really thought about the dog eating less because a better quality food. This being said, I guess I could afford a higher priced food. I did some research and liked what I saw from Taste of the Wild and Native. How do these brands compare?

They are totally different. Taste of the Wild is made by Diamond and it is a grain free food using potato, whereas Native is a traditional chicken and rice/grain food. Native would be substantially less money and probably a better food for a Shorthair because they all seem to have trouble maintaining weight. Native 2 or 3 are probably what you want. People seem to like Native and it is priced like Pro Plan more or less.

Taste of The Wild is well liked too but, you will wind up spending more on it and feeding more. The only grain free that seems to work well with hunting dogs is Evo because the fat is pretty high at 22%, but it is NOT for puppies.

Where do you live by the way? Do you have many choices close by?

[frontline]

I would recommend feeding what the breeder feeds if possible, hopefully they know their lines and what they do best on. Maybe your breeder can suggest something. You should buy at least one small bag of the breeder's food to help your new pup transition to her new home. Keeping her on the food that she's used to will decrease her stress while she adjusts to leaving her litter, her new environment and upcoming vaccinations. If your pup has issues at least you know it's not a new food that's causing them. Save some of her old food to help you transition to a new food.

Diamond makes a lot of foods, which foods were you considering? I'm in the camp that won't feed Diamond foods so I can't help you much in selecting one. Make sure the food you choose is rated by the AAFCO as being suitable for growth or all life stages (ALS). An ALS food is really puppy food. For an easy transition it will be easier on your pup if you feed the same, or about the same, % of protein/fat that she was eating. What are you feeding your other dogs?

Who wouldn't be stoked getting a new puppy, I'm so jealous. Congratulations, good luck and enjoy her!!!

[KyCountry]

They are totally different. Taste of the Wild is made by Diamond and it is a grain free food using potato, whereas Native is a traditional chicken and rice/grain food. Native would be substantially less money and probably a better food for a Shorthair because they all seem to have trouble maintaining weight. Native 2 or 3 are probably what you want. People seem to like Native and it is priced like Pro Plan more or less.

Taste of The Wild is well liked too but, you will wind up spending more on it and feeding more. The only grain free that seems to work well with hunting dogs is Evo because the fat is pretty high at 22%, but it is NOT for puppies.

Where do you live by the way? Do you have many choices close by?

I'm in Kentucky. Right now I'm in the Lexington area but will be moving soon to the western part of the state, really in the middle of nowhere, which is why availability will become an issue. I'm glad you brought up that GSP's will be better on Native, from everything I've read, it looks like a quality feed.

I would recommend feeding what the breeder feeds if possible, hopefully they know their lines and what they do best on. Maybe your breeder can suggest something. You should buy at least one small bag of the breeder's food to help your new pup transition to her new home. Keeping her on the food that she's used to will decrease her stress while she adjusts to leaving her litter, her new environment and upcoming vaccinations. If your pup has issues at least you know it's not a new food that's causing them. Save some of her old food to help you transition to a new food.

Diamond makes a lot of foods, which foods were you considering? I'm in the camp that won't feed Diamond foods so I can't help you much in selecting one. Make sure the food you choose is rated by the AAFCO as being suitable for growth or all life stages (ALS). An ALS food is really puppy food. What are you feeding your other dogs?

Who wouldn't be stoked getting a new puppy, I'm so jealous. Congratulations, good luck and enjoy her!!!

Right now, the breeder is feeding all litters Purina puppy chow. I was wanting to feed the pup adult food and was planning on buying a bag and slowly weening her off of it. I've fed all my other dogs Purina in the past but like I said, I've never had a pointer and I know their body fat ratio and needs are a little different, which is why I posted here. Would Native be a good thing to start a 8-10 week old pup on?

[Angus]

I am a fan of Pro Pac after feeding different feeds over the years. I really liked TOTW for my labs, my setter pup did not do well on it. Tuffy's seems to be pretty decent as well. My local feed store is pushing the Tuffy's lately.

[OKIEGunner]

KY

Puppies have high energy requirements, but very small stomachs - therefore owners should feed smaller meals of high quality puppy food. “Quality food is the key”, as you will feed less over-time which will make it easier on the puppies digestive tract. I like feeding more frequently throughout the day, feeding 3 times a day until 4-6 months, reducing to two meals a day somewhere around 9-12 months of age depending on the breed. Stability in the feeding regime will also help maintain good digestion.

I think it’s safe to say, that Puppies require lots of energy from food. Fact is that a three-to five-month-old puppy uses two to four times as much energy, “pound for pound”, as an adult dog. Puppies therefore need a highly digestible, energy- and nutrient-dense diet.

The most suitable diet should be easily digested and produce dark brown, firm, formed stools. If your puppy produces soft or light stools or has bad gas or diarrhea, then the dog food may not suit your puppy.

I find it ironic that a long-time dog owner, let alone a reputable breeder would not understand that nutritional needs are in fact different based on a dog’s age. But please do your own research that is independent of a dog food label. Talk to you vet and ask him or her about a puppies nutritional needs. You will quickly find that not all you read on a forum has merit. Also be cautious of advice on forums that provide “no meat with their potatoes”, even if they are a Senior Moderator.

I own several (5) GSP's and hunt over 120 days a year. I stay away from the Corn based products and like sweet potatoes. I refuse to put corn based fuel in my truck, so why would I give it to a dog. There are several out there and finding what your dog good on is a matter of personal preference. I just happen to feed Victor dog food.

[Sharon]

There's no such thing as a "quick food question" .

[ezzy333]

There's no such thing as a "quick food question

Not even if the Senior Moderator is talking about corn free feeds? I could tell you all the good things about them in about one word. That should be quick! :roll: :roll:

Ezzy

[KyCountry]

There's no such thing as a "quick food question" .

I'm finding that out quick. Ha.

[frontline]

All dry dog foods need carbohydrates to make kibble, whether you choose a grain or vegetable as the carbohydrate is a choice you should think about. Since your new puppy has been eating a grain based food you might want to consider a food with grains as the transition will be easy. Grains help improve stool quality especially with a puppy's immature digestive system but grains tend to have a higher glycemic load than some vegetables like peas or sweet potatoes. There are positives and negatives to each. I like to start puppies on a food with grains and transition to a grain-free later.

[SubMariner]

Wow, thanks for all the info, guys. After thinking about it a little more, I realized I had been using numbers based on how much all my labs ate. Obviously, my GSP won't eat as much, which is a good thing. I also had never really thought about the dog eating less because a better quality food. This being said, I guess I could afford a higher priced food. I did some research and liked what I saw from Taste of the Wild and Native. How do these brands compare?

They are totally different. Taste of the Wild is made by Diamond and it is a grain free food using potato, whereas Native is a traditional chicken and rice/grain food. Native would be substantially less money and probably a better food for a Shorthair because they all seem to have trouble maintaining weight. Native 2 or 3 are probably what you want. People seem to like Native and it is priced like Pro Plan more or less.

Taste of The Wild is well liked too but, you will wind up spending more on it and feeding more. The only grain free that seems to work well with hunting dogs is Evo because the fat is pretty high at 22%, but it is NOT for puppies.

Where do you live by the way? Do you have many choices close by?

I am curious as to why you think that EVO is not suitable for puppies. It compares favourably with "puppy" foods in terms of fat, protein, etc. and does not exceed the maximum recommended calcium levels.

[mcbosco]

Wow, thanks for all the info, guys. After thinking about it a little more, I realized I had been using numbers based on how much all my labs ate. Obviously, my GSP won't eat as much, which is a good thing. I also had never really thought about the dog eating less because a better quality food. This being said, I guess I could afford a higher priced food. I did some research and liked what I saw from Taste of the Wild and Native. How do these brands compare?

They are totally different. Taste of the Wild is made by Diamond and it is a grain free food using potato, whereas Native is a traditional chicken and rice/grain food. Native would be substantially less money and probably a better food for a Shorthair because they all seem to have trouble maintaining weight. Native 2 or 3 are probably what you want. People seem to like Native and it is priced like Pro Plan more or less.

Taste of The Wild is well liked too but, you will wind up spending more on it and feeding more. The only grain free that seems to work well with hunting dogs is Evo because the fat is pretty high at 22%, but it is NOT for puppies.

Where do you live by the way? Do you have many choices close by?

I am curious as to why you think that EVO is not suitable for puppies. It compares favourably with "puppy" foods in terms of fat, protein, etc. and does not exceed the maximum recommended calcium levels.

I know technically it is an "all life stage food" but the company does not recommend it for puppies other than small breeds. I also know several people that have used it with puppies and it caused severe constipation. I would rather a more moderate growth diet for a youngster. The ash is also very high, 12%, in the chicken formula and I don't like that type of mineral content for young kidneys. I have the only true large breed in the sporting group so maybe I am biased.

[KyCountry]

All dry dog foods need carbohydrates to make kibble, whether you choose a grain or vegetable as the carbohydrate is a choice you should think about. Since your new puppy has been eating a grain based food you might want to consider a food with grains as the transition will be easy. Grains help improve stool quality especially with a puppy's immature digestive system but grains tend to have a higher glycemic load than some vegetables like peas or sweet potatoes. There are positives and negatives to each. I like to start puppies on a food with grains and transition to a grain-free later.

Very good info. Thanks, frontline.

[mcbosco]

All dry dog foods need carbohydrates to make kibble, whether you choose a grain or vegetable as the carbohydrate is a choice you should think about. Since your new puppy has been eating a grain based food you might want to consider a food with grains as the transition will be easy. Grains help improve stool quality especially with a puppy's immature digestive system but grains tend to have a higher glycemic load than some vegetables like peas or sweet potatoes. There are positives and negatives to each. I like to start puppies on a food with grains and transition to a grain-free later.

Very good info. Thanks, frontline.

This is partially true, but most grain free foods have white potatoes and tapioca, not sweet potatoes. Also, there is no way anyone can know the Glycemic Load by just going on the internet or reading a pet flood label. I know there are tables on the internet, but something with a High Glycemic Index may still have a very Low Gylcemic Load in the actual food. Carrots for example have a very high index, but you would never feed your dog 2lbs of carrots a day.

And finally, most grains like barley & oats, even corn, are not considered High Gylcemic Foods to begin with.

I am not anti-grain free but when you talk about the Gyclemic qualites relative to traditional kibbles, it is just bull. All the stuff you read about has to do with people and diets, not dogs. Also, it has been shown that adult performance dogs on grain-free diets have much more volatile blood glucose levels than dogs on a traditional kibble. So that glycemic theory just doesn't hold water.

A good 30/20 with traditional grains in no way would be considered a Highly Gylcemic food.

[SubMariner]

They are totally different. Taste of the Wild is made by Diamond and it is a grain free food using potato, whereas Native is a traditional chicken and rice/grain food. Native would be substantially less money and probably a better food for a Shorthair because they all seem to have trouble maintaining weight. Native 2 or 3 are probably what you want. People seem to like Native and it is priced like Pro Plan more or less.

Taste of The Wild is well liked too but, you will wind up spending more on it and feeding more. The only grain free that seems to work well with hunting dogs is Evo because the fat is pretty high at 22%, but it is NOT for puppies.

Where do you live by the way? Do you have many choices close by?

I am curious as to why you think that EVO is not suitable for puppies. It compares favourably with "puppy" foods in terms of fat, protein, etc. and does not exceed the maximum recommended calcium levels.

I know technically it is an "all life stage food" but the company does not recommend it for puppies other than small breeds. I also know several people that have used it with puppies and it caused severe constipation. I would rather a more moderate growth diet for a youngster. The ash is also very high, 12%, in the chicken formula and I don't like that type of mineral content for young kidneys. I have the only true large breed in the sporting group so maybe I am biased.

I would tend to agree that for a TRUE "large breed" puppy, the protein levels would be too high. But I do not believe that the majority of sporting breeds fall into this category. How can one put a GSP or Lab into a "large breed" category when there are dogs like Great Danes or Mastiffs out there?

Meanwhile, although the amount of ash appears to be ~ 11.7 %, I cannot find any documentation online that indicates whether this is "good" or "bad" for a puppy. If you have a link to some empirical documentation that explains this more fully, I would appreciate it if you would post it because I'm having trouble finding some real answers on this subject.

Pax,

[frontline]

All dry dog foods need carbohydrates to make kibble, whether you choose a grain or vegetable as the carbohydrate is a choice you should think about. Since your new puppy has been eating a grain based food you might want to consider a food with grains as the transition will be easy. Grains help improve stool quality especially with a puppy's immature digestive system but grains tend to have a higher glycemic load than some vegetables like peas or sweet potatoes. There are positives and negatives to each. I like to start puppies on a food with grains and transition to a grain-free later.

Very good info. Thanks, frontline.

This is partially true, but most grain free foods have white potatoes and tapioca, not sweet potatoes. Also, there is no way anyone can know the Glycemic Load by just going on the internet or reading a pet flood label. I know there are tables on the internet, but something with a High Glycemic Index may still have a very Low Gylcemic Load in the actual food. Carrots for example have a very high index, but you would never feed your dog 2lbs of carrots a day.

And finally, most grains like barley & oats, even corn, are not considered High Gylcemic Foods to begin with.

I am not anti-grain free but when you talk about the Gyclemic qualites relative to traditional kibbles, it is just bull. All the stuff you read about has to do with people and diets, not dogs. Also, it has been shown that adult performance dogs on grain-free diets have much more volatile blood glucose levels than dogs on a traditional kibble. So that glycemic theory just doesn't hold water.

A good 30/20 with traditional grains in no way would be considered a Highly Gylcemic food.

You can compare glycemic loads if you compare serving sizes that are equal, for example 100 gms of peas vs. 100 gms. of corn. It's probably not fair to generalize about glycemic loads in grains vs. vegetables as there are exceptions and other factors that can enter into the equation. White potatoes are used a lot in GF foods and I prefer to not feed them regularly, I also stay clear of wheat because of gluten. I don't see many foods using tapioca but I know there are some. It's also incorrect to make the generalization that "adult performance dogs on grain-free diets have much more volatile blood glucose levels than dogs on a traditional kibble", it depends on the ingredients of each food. "Traditional kibble" usually has more fermentable fiber which can improve glucose homeostasis by delaying hyperglycemia. Corn (even whole corn in dog food) is a high glycemic food, it's usually ground and cooked in kibble making it more digestible, the finer it's ground the more it's digested and the higher it's glycemic index.

[Sharon]

There's no such thing as a "quick food question

Not even if the Senior Moderator is talking about corn free feeds? I could tell you all the good things about them in about one word. That should be quick! :roll: :roll:

Ezzy

Now you've got me wondering. What's the one word?

[shags]

Taste of the Wild is made by Diamond and it is a grain free food using potato, whereas Native is a traditional chicken and rice/grain food. Native would be substantially less money and probably a better food for a Shorthair because they all seem to have trouble maintaining weight. Native 2 or 3 are probably what you want. People seem to like Native and it is priced like Pro Plan more or less.

Taste of The Wild is well liked too but, you will wind up spending more on it and feeding more. The only grain free that seems to work well with hunting dogs is Evo because the fat is pretty high at 22%, but it is NOT for puppies.

Where do you live by the way? Do you have many choices close by?

I'm feeding four bird dogs and a little terrier. Tried Native for a while and that resulted in big sloppy poops to clean up. The dogs seemed to do OK with it, but the messes were a bit much. They've been on TOTW for several years now and do great - nice coats, plenty of energy, and neat little piles for me to clean up. The bird dogs get just two cups a day, and need exercise to keep from chubbing up with that much; my one hard keeper needs about 2 1/2 to maybe 3 cups a day. It's pricier than some but I feed so much less for the same results that the cost evens out.

[Angus]

Taste of the Wild is made by Diamond and it is a grain free food using potato, whereas Native is a traditional chicken and rice/grain food. Native would be substantially less money and probably a better food for a Shorthair because they all seem to have trouble maintaining weight. Native 2 or 3 are probably what you want. People seem to like Native and it is priced like Pro Plan more or less.

Taste of The Wild is well liked too but, you will wind up spending more on it and feeding more. The only grain free that seems to work well with hunting dogs is Evo because the fat is pretty high at 22%, but it is NOT for puppies.

Where do you live by the way? Do you have many choices close by?

I'm feeding four bird dogs and a little terrier. Tried Native for a while and that resulted in big sloppy poops to clean up. The dogs seemed to do OK with it, but the messes were a bit much. They've been on TOTW for several years now and do great - nice coats, plenty of energy, and neat little piles for me to clean up. The bird dogs get just two cups a day, and need exercise to keep from chubbing up with that much; my one hard keeper needs about 2 1/2 to maybe 3 cups a day. It's pricier than some but I feed so much less for the same results that the cost evens out.

The highest calorie TOTW that I am aware of is around 3,075/kg. That's around 375kcal/c. I don't see how an active hunting dog can gain weight on 750 kcal/day. An average 50lb dog needs 1250/day to maintain weight.

I am by no means an expert on the numbers. I could be way off on my thinking.

[shags]

What do numbers mean in the real world? All I know is what my dogs look like, how much exercise they get, what they weigh, and how much they are fed by measured cups. Not to mention the number of shovelsful of what passes through each day

[Angus]

What do numbers mean in the real world? All I know is what my dogs look like, how much exercise they get, what they weigh, and how much they are fed by measured cups. Not to mention the number of shovelsful of what passes through each day

I certainly can't argue with that logic.

[Kmack]

http://www.victordogfood.com/hi-pro-plus/

I have been feeding this to my dogs for several months now and I am very happy with the results (was feeding PPP).

We buy it from the local grain elevator and the price is similar to Diamond. My dogs' stools, coats, and energy levels are better with the Victor feed.

[ACooper]

http://www.victordogfood.com/hi-pro-plus/

I have been feeding this to my dogs for several months now and I am very happy with the results (was feeding PPP).

We buy it from the local grain elevator and the price is similar to Diamond. My dogs' stools, coats, and energy levels are better with the Victor feed.

I've not seen it, it looks like they have some good products.

[birddogger]

You know, if I were new and considering a new puppy.....After reading all the dog food threads on here, I might just decide that feeding the new dog is just too complicated and expensive. I can probably handle the socialization, bonding and even the training, but feeding? I think that may be more than I can handle.

Charlie

[ezzy333]

Hard to explain when we are talking about an animal that will eat most anything given the chance and do quite well on it. Just stop and think how many dogs there are that belong to no one and have to find their own food and they survive, raise litters of healthy pups, and live a fairly long life. And then someone decided to make a feed for them and now we have a thousand feeds, all made with the same core ingredients from the same sources, and suddenly our dogs have developed allergies, sensitive stomachs, lack of energy, poor coats, loose stools, gas, and poor teeth.

And the never ending debate on what to feed, how much, and how expensive now has become the major pass time of half of the dog owners of the world.

Charlie, explain it to me, I just can't believe all of the misinformation associated with our dogs and what they eat.

Ezzy

[birddogger]

Sorry, I just can't explain it.

Charlie

[birddogger]

On second thought, I guess good marketing and the trend towards putting human traits on critters may play a big part but other than that, I got nothing.

Charlie