Dog food spreadsheet

[brad27]

This is an interesting concept. How will you quantify the quality control of each product? Do all of the companies measure the statistics in a uniform manner? If a company says there product is X % chicken by weight , do they measure the chicken wet then dehydrate the chicken with the fillers thus changing the percentage of chicken in the product. Where do they source there meat products ? Are they sourcing products from foreign countries without the same quality controls we have here in the U.S. .Are they rejected for human consumption? What is their record for products that have been recalled? I would greatly appreciate the answer to all of these questions. I have more but but these ought to keep you busy for a while!!!

I won't be answering any of those questions with this spreadsheet. It is just a cost per day. The end user will have to decide if brand X is better than brand Y based on ingredients and any other metric they want to use.

[4dabirds]

Abady Classic Granular. 40-lb box. $78 (price can vary depending upon where you shop). Rest of the info found here: http://therobertabadydogfoodcoltd.com/A ... ngredl.htm

Good call

I looked at this chart and to make the point I was trying to make in the previous post They list chicken meal and fish meal as the first ingredient, which would be the greatest by weight . If I am not mistaken this is chicken and fish put through a grinder whole, not just the meat. On the pro plan performance bag chicken is the first ingredient listed .The abady also says that brown rice contains gluten. This is not true. Gluten is a protein found in wheat and barley. Brown rice has lectin in it which can have similar effects on humans to gluten but I do not know if it effects dogs. It may seem inconsequential but if they misrepresent this what else is misrepresented ? The second ingredient on the pro plan bag is corn gluten meal. Corn does not contain gluten, so what the heck is this? Their third ingredient is chicken meal, they say for a natural source of glucosimine. One of my dogs is on pro plan weight formula it lists whole grain wheat in it. This does contain gluten. If the abady people are right and dogs should not eat gluten then why is purina putting it in the food. "bleep" this is getting confusing I should have let them eat that cat on the front lawn tonight it probably would have been healthier for them . At the very least they would have burned off some energy chasing We need answers brad!

[ezzy333]

This is an interesting concept. How will you quantify the quality control of each product? Do all of the companies measure the statistics in a uniform manner? If a company says there product is X % chicken by weight , do they measure the chicken wet then dehydrate the chicken with the fillers thus changing the percentage of chicken in the product. Where do they source there meat products ? Are they sourcing products from foreign countries without the same quality controls we have here in the U.S. .Are they rejected for human consumption? What is their record for products that have been recalled? I would greatly appreciate the answer to all of these questions. I have more but but these ought to keep you busy for a while!!!

Any one who hasany knowledge about feed manufacturing and ingredient purchasing knows the answer to several of your questions. And several have no real effect on the product a company produces. Just not sure what effect they would have in influencing the decision of what to feed. However a couple probably would but I don't think a sheet showing comparible nutrion factors is the place you would want the results. Seems thaat would be another sheet for a different day.

Ezzy

[mcbosco]

Abady Classic Granular. 40-lb box. $78 (price can vary depending upon where you shop). Rest of the info found here: http://therobertabadydogfoodcoltd.com/A ... ngredl.htm

Good call

I looked at this chart and to make the point I was trying to make in the previous post They list chicken meal and fish meal as the first ingredient, which would be the greatest by weight . If I am not mistaken this is chicken and fish put through a grinder whole, not just the meat. On the pro plan performance bag chicken is the first ingredient listed .The abady also says that brown rice contains gluten. This is not true. Gluten is a protein found in wheat and barley. Brown rice has lectin in it which can have similar effects on humans to gluten but I do not know if it effects dogs. It may seem inconsequential but if they misrepresent this what else is misrepresented ? The second ingredient on the pro plan bag is corn gluten meal. Corn does not contain gluten, so what the heck is this? Their third ingredient is chicken meal, they say for a natural source of glucosimine. One of my dogs is on pro plan weight formula it lists whole grain wheat in it. This does contain gluten. If the abady people are right and dogs should not eat gluten then why is purina putting it in the food. "bleep" this is getting confusing I should have let them eat that cat on the front lawn tonight it probably would have been healthier for them . At the very least they would have burned off some energy chasing We need answers brad!

Gluten is a general term for plant based proteins, so they all have it but wheat, rye and barley have the protein subsets associated with digestive problems and allergies. Corn and rice do have glutens, but not the protein subsets in wheat, barley and rye, so they are considered "gluten free".

As for Abady, that food has extremely high levels of animal protein, far higher than any Purina product. Some Abady products are 95% protein from animal sources whereas Pro Plan is considerably lower. Purina will never tell you but less than 75% is my guess, maybe as low as 50%.

[claybuster_aa]

The abady also says that brown rice contains gluten. This is not true.

When you see corn listed on an ingredients panel off a dog food bag, does one assume they are getting sweet corn going to the human consumption market ready for the dinner table or are they getting feed grade corn going to the bio-fuels market and cattle/swine/pet food market?

I think it would be wise to make the same assumptions in regards to brown rice, there are different grades. Your statement would lead one to believe that when you see brown rice listed in dog food, one is getting human grade brown rice, with the hull removed a safe to eat food for those with Celiac disease requiring gluten free foods. Rice protein is considered gluten free. However making the same assumptions when it comes to dog feed brown rice, I don't think I would make that call. I doubt Uncle Ben's is going into dog food. I also would have my doubts that Abady is using human grade White Rice, but I do know they say it is superior because the hull of the rice is removed, and the hull is where you may run into problems for the dogs, especially when the goal is to keep fiber as low as possible; and the potential of gluten be present in the hull.

[ezzy333]

The abady also says that brown rice contains gluten. This is not true.

When you see corn listed on an ingredients panel off a dog food bag, does one assume they are getting sweet corn going to the human consumption market ready for the dinner table or are they getting feed grade corn going to the bio-fuels market and cattle/swine/pet food market?

I think it would be wise to make the same assumptions in regards to brown rice, there are different grades. Your statement would lead one to believe that when you see brown rice listed in dog food, one is getting human grade brown rice, with the hull removed a safe to eat food for those with Celiac disease requiring gluten free foods. Rice protein is considered gluten free. However making the same assumptions when it comes to dog feed brown rice, I don't think I would make that call. I doubt Uncle Ben's is going into dog food. I also would have my doubts that Abady is using human grade White Rice, but I do know they say it is superior because the hull of the rice is removed, and the hull is where you may run into problems for the dogs, especially when the goal is to keep fiber as low as possible; and the potential of gluten be present in the hull.

Most of these assumptions you are making are wrong. Rice of any kind does not contain Gluten. And Gluten is never found in the hull of any grain. Gluten is found primarily in the starch of the grass like grains such as wheat, and much smaller amounts in barley and rye. Don't think we have ever found that any form of gluten is harmful to our dogs or humans except for the humans with an immune problem triggered by it an that is less than 1% of the population. The foods that are labeled Gluten Free have to have 20 PPM or less but are not completely free of gluten. Your assumption that the corn used in the dog food is field grade corn is correct. The big difference in it and the sweet corn you refer to is nothing more than the sugar content which by most standards we don't need or want in the dog food. However, there are other differences in the corn we grow as some is high oil, some high protein, and some that are high lysine,some high starch, while the high sugar pretty much goes to the human table. Of course a lot of the field grade corn goes to the human table too through out the world as well as here in the USA.

By the way the bid difference in animal grade or human grade grains is primarily how it is stored and the amount of foreign material such as weed seed and animal excrement that is allowed in it. In other words it is much more a handling quality than a difference in feed value.

Ezzy

[claybuster_aa]

Thanks Ezzy. I heard there is a strain of corn called Terminator which kills itself afterwards so the seeds cannot be cleaned and used? I read there is a stain that grows in drought conditions...amazing. Monsanto is really on the cutting edge when it comes to playing God. I often suspected feed-grade corn going to human consumption market. I bet that is the employee cafeteria style corn where every piece looks exactly the same? I try to avoid eating corn myself and hope to use less food and drink with HFCS. I'm I being overly paranoid about the corn thing?

[4dabirds]

[quote[/quote] Any one who hasany knowledge about feed manufacturing and ingredient purchasing knows the answer to several of your questions. And several have no real effect on the product a company produces. Just not sure what effect they would have in influencing the decision of what to feed. However a couple probably would but I don't think a sheet showing comparible nutrion factors is the place you would want the results. Seems thaat would be another sheet for a different day.

Ezzy[/quote] My point is how can you show value across the board if you are not comparing apples to apples. Just crude protein and calories does not paint a broad enough picture of quality or value.

I think it would be wise to make the same assumptions in regards to brown rice, there are different grades. Your statement would lead one to believe that when you see brown rice listed in dog food, one is getting human grade brown rice, with the hull removed a safe to eat food for those with Celiac disease requiring gluten free foods. Rice protein is considered gluten free. However making the same assumptions when it comes to dog feed brown rice, I don't think I would make that call. I doubt Uncle Ben's is going into dog food. I also would have my doubts that Abady is using human grade White Rice, but I do know they say it is superior because the hull of the rice is removed, and the hull is where you may run into problems for the dogs, especially when the goal is to keep fiber as low as possible; and the potential of gluten be present in the hull.[/quote]
Most of these assumptions you are making are wrong. Rice of any kind does not contain Gluten. And Gluten is never found in the hull of any grain. Gluten is found primarily in the starch of the grass like grains such as wheat, and much smaller amounts in barley and rye. Don't think we have ever found that any form of gluten is harmful to our dogs or humans except for the humans with an immune problem triggered by it an that is less than 1% of the population. The foods that are labeled Gluten Free have to have 20 PPM or less but are not completely free of gluten. Your assumption that the corn used in the dog food is field grade corn is correct. The big difference in it and the sweet corn you refer to is nothing more than the sugar content which by most standards we don't need or want in the dog food. However, there are other differences in the corn we grow as some is high oil, some high protein, and some that are high lysine,some high starch, while the high sugar pretty much goes to the human table. Of course a lot of the field grade corn goes to the human table too through out the world as well as here in the USA.

By the way the bid difference in animal grade or human grade grains is primarily how it is stored and the amount of foreign material such as weed seed and animal excrement that is allowed in it. In other words it is much more a handling quality than a difference in feed value.

Ezzy[/quote] Great Info here Ezzy. I think you are going to see that one percent go up as people start to learn about IBD. Most people grow up with this and feel that it is normal to get diahrea after eating certain foods. They are never diagnosed .As the gluten free movement "no pun intended" gets the word out more people will realize they are gluten intolerant.

[Angus]

Monsanto scares me. That's a whole nother thread in itself.

Just an FYI, Corn Gluten is the only ingredient in Preen for Veggie Gardens. It stops weeds from growing. I bet that's a great ingredient to ingest be it man or dog.

[Garrison]

"I won't be answering any of those questions with this spreadsheet. It is just a cost per day. The end user will have to decide if brand X is better than brand Y based on ingredients and any other metric they want to use."



Maybe you all forgot to read this post from Brad!

[ezzy333]

Monsanto scares me. That's a whole nother thread in itself.

Just an FYI, Corn Gluten is the only ingredient in Preen for Veggie Gardens. It stops weeds from growing. I bet that's a great ingredient to ingest be it man or dog.

I

You are right about Corn Gluten stoping some seeds from germinating. And that is also what Preen does but think you got off track when you stated Preen is Corn Gluten. Go look at the active ingredients in Preen and there is only one that I can't ever spell. It is about 1.5% of the total package and the other 97 or 98% is just inert material.

The Corn Gluten has been feed for years and is an important source of protein and digestible fiber. This makes it a great by-pass protein that breaks down in the intestine and not in the stomach. The whole corn is about 8 to 10 % protein but is largely starch. When the starch is removed the remaining product is what we call Corn Gluten though it is not even a gluten in reality and the original 8% potein is now up near 30%of the total weight. The Corn Gluten also has about 10% nitrogen and was used as a slow release organic fertilizer but it was discovered that the amino acid balace also prevented seed germination when applied shortly before the seeds were to germinate. So besides being an important source of vegetable protein, slow release nitrogen, it also will stop seed germination if applied at the right time.

I am assuming most of you have read or know that those properties have little to do with each other just as quite a few other products have been found to have several useful benefits in this world. Kelp, sea weed, salt, are just a few.

Why would anyone eat salt when it kills practically everything it touches?

Ezzy

[Angus]

Regular Preen is what it is. Preen for veggie gardens is 100% Corn Gluten.

Salt is needed for survival.

While I do agree that much of it is not connected. I just do not see any need for Corn Gluten in dog food for anything other than a protein booster.

[Gertie]

So there's a guy here in town that is producing his own dog food. He doesn't sell it in stores but rather delivers it to your house. You call his answering machine, leave your address and the food you want (he has a few different kinds), and leave a check under the mat. When you get home the food is on the porch. I've been getting the "Performance Blend" and it costs me $38 for a 40lb bag. I'm curious as to how it stacks up here. It's composition and contents are as follows (copied from the website):

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS:
Crude Protein, min. 30% Moisture, max. 10%

Crude Fat, min. 20% Omega– Fatty Acid, min. 3.4%

Crude Fiber, max. 3.0% Omega-3 Fatty Acid, min. .60%

INGREDIENTS:
Chicken Meal, Corn, Brown Rice, White Rice, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols),Pork Meal, Beet Pulp, Salmon Meal, Natural Chicken Liver Flavor, Flaxseed Meal, Dried Egg, Alfalfa Meal, Pumpkin Meal, Parsley, Choline Chloride, Zinc Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Inulin (from chicory root), Ascorbic Acid (source of vitamin C), Zinc Sulfate, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Iron Sulfate, Niacin Supplement, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Calcium Sulfate, Thiamine Mononitrate, d-Biotin, Riboflavin Supplement, Manganese Sulfate,Vitamin D3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Menadione Nicotinamide Bisulfite, Beta Carotene, Folic Acid, Sodium Selenite, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Rosemary Extract.

[brad27]

Gertie, I need more info. What is the website?

[Gertie]

Right here: http://www.orionschoice.com/

[ezzy333]

Regular Preen is what it is. Preen for veggie gardens is 100% Corn Gluten.

Salt is needed for survival.

While I do agree that much of it is not connected. I just do not see any need for Corn Gluten in dog food for anything other than a protein booster.

You are right, that is exactly why it is used. Same with chicken, lamb, or any other protein source. Soy bean meal is the world's most popular protein source and Meat Scraps or Meat and Bone meal would be second in all likely hood. Combinations of animal and vegetable protien sources give the most balanced, cheapest, and best nutrition to our dogs and that is exactly what we all want.

By the way just went out and looked at the 4 containers of preen I have and not a one of them has any Corn Gluten. I found it is just too expensive and not as good at doing the job plus there are way too many resrictions on where and what on you can use it plus it too valuable as an animal feed. It and cottonseed meal work great in several Catfish Bait recipes.

Always had to save a small bag of them when we unloaded a boxcar for the Switch Train Engineer.

Ezzy

[claybuster_aa]

Monsanto scares me. That's a whole nother thread in itself. ...

Sssshhhh, don't say anything bad about Monsanto...you don't want to get the knock on the door

[claybuster_aa]

"I won't be answering any of those questions with this spreadsheet. It is just a cost per day. The end user will have to decide if brand X is better than brand Y based on ingredients and any other metric they want to use."

Maybe you all forgot to read this post from Brad!

Cost per day or maybe cost per weight of the individual dog? I think you would need to go by weight of the dog per day?

My dog weighs around 35-lbs. The $78 40-lb box will last me around 3 months. 78 /90 = 0.86 Two 35-lb dogs eating around the same (individual needs of the dog will vary) my costs would go to around $1.72 per day. The spreadsheet will need to include some weight per dog so folks can cost average...no?

[Garrison]

I am pretty sure Brad is going for a baseline comparison for a single dog. Good thing is, Lucy is an eating machine, I am pretty sure his price per day will be a bit inflated due to her being the Takeru Kobayashi of the bird dog world!

[ultracarry]

I am pretty sure Brad is going for a baseline comparison for a single dog. Good thing is, Lucy is an eating machine, I am pretty sure his price per day will be a bit inflated due to her being the Takeru Kobayashi of the bird dog world!

That's too funny! She would wear a pig mask to a competition.

[ultracarry]

"I won't be answering any of those questions with this spreadsheet. It is just a cost per day. The end user will have to decide if brand X is better than brand Y based on ingredients and any other metric they want to use."

Maybe you all forgot to read this post from Brad!

Cost per day or maybe cost per weight of the individual dog? I think you would need to go by weight of the dog per day?

My dog weighs around 35-lbs. The $78 40-lb box will last me around 3 months. 78 /90 = 0.86 Two 35-lb dogs eating around the same (individual needs of the dog will vary) my costs would go to around $1.72 per day. The spreadsheet will need to include some weight per dog so folks can cost average...no?[/quote

No he doesn't need to. If you want to determine how much your will be estimate how many kcals your dog burns per day... Do the calculations with the info given on the chart and make a decision. Pretty sure if a dog food #1 if 20% more on the chart than dog food #2.... There will be a 20% difference when you factor it for your dog. If not, your math is off.