Do the Dew?

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Red Delicious
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Do the Dew?

Post by Red Delicious » Sun May 06, 2012 2:44 pm

I was reading an article concerning Dew claw removal today http://www.caninesports.com/DewClawExplanation.pdf and it got me thinking.

I have the dew claws removed from my pups but I'm not sure why. I've had some, including my current 12 year old, who I've left the dew claws on. I've hunted them quit hard on rough and snowy ground after Chukar and Pheasant and I can't remember ever having a dew claw problem. Is this something we do because it's always been done that way or do others have stories that justify having them removed?

Just curious.

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by Sharon » Sun May 06, 2012 3:45 pm

" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by Hattrick » Sun May 06, 2012 5:12 pm

Sharon

do you remove ur dogs or leave them on?

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by Brittguy » Sun May 06, 2012 5:33 pm

I always remove the dew claws on my puppies because I think it gives a cleaner look to the leg. I have had dogs in the past that had dew claws and have never had any problems with injuries

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by Red Delicious » Sun May 06, 2012 5:44 pm

Hattrick wrote:Sharon

do you remove ur dogs or leave them on?
I have them removed.

I don't know that I've ever had a problem caused by having them removed but I don't know that I've ever had a problem caused by leaving them on either.

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by Sharon » Sun May 06, 2012 8:16 pm

double post
Last edited by Sharon on Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by JIM K » Sun May 06, 2012 11:20 pm

46 yrs hunting .do your dog favor,HAVE DEW CLAWS REMOVED AS PUP.i seen and had some real bad injurys to my dogs that had dew claws on.

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by QuailHollow » Mon May 07, 2012 4:12 am

I'm done removing dew claws. Even in the litters I bred that have been bench only, I finished the Championship on one of my young dogs - with dew claws - in 6 shows. They try to tell you it has a purpose, but it's all cosmetic. I'll never do it again.

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by gotpointers » Mon May 07, 2012 6:12 am

If i am keeping the dog i will leave them on. Never had a dog rip one either. I have lost sales due to leaving them on even after refering customers to dvm zinks article. I started a similar thread in healthcare about a year ago. Its nice to see some opinions here are more towards leaving them intact and also in the poll i have never viewed until now. I was called irresponsible for leaving them intact last time.

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by DogNewbie » Mon May 07, 2012 8:59 am

Interesting article. My pup has his removed by breeder choice. I had never heard anything but negative responses to keeping dew claws so I thought nothing of it.

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by DonF » Mon May 07, 2012 9:27 am

I have always removed my pup's dew claws. I don't recall why I started that, probably because everyone did it! They do look awful to me and if they do do something, I've never noticed it. I've never had a problem with them gone and don't recall anyone that had a problem with leaving them. Just boils down to if you want to see them or not for me. It's probably like a dogs hair.My dogs have long hair, I cut it off late spring and again late summer. What good does all that hair have in hot months? I trim up their tail about 3" and trim the feathering on the tail and front legs. If there is some genetic reason for all that hair, I am unaware of it.

I think I did hear or read one time that the dew claw did have a perpose at one time but it only applied to dog in the wild, I'm not sure I understand that. On my Springer and Shorthairs, I took off tails and dew claws at three days. Never had a problem.
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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by JIM K » Mon May 07, 2012 12:19 pm

DogNewbie wrote:Interesting article. My pup has his removed by breeder choice. I had never heard anything but negative responses to keeping dew claws so I thought nothing of it.
some say,jim why do you always say you have 46 yrs hunting with dogs.
not trying to be smart or show i KNOW more,just what i have seen in those years.
leaving dew claws on has caused some very bad injurys to my dogs and OTHERS too. :cry:

we now put tape over claws on my dogs and try to keep claws rounded with dremel tool just to QUICK.

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by JIM K » Mon May 07, 2012 12:23 pm

gotpointers wrote:If i am keeping the dog i will leave them on. Never had a dog rip one either. I have lost sales due to leaving them on even after refering customers to dvm zinks article. I started a similar thread in healthcare about a year ago. Its nice to see some opinions here are more towards leaving them intact and also in the poll i have never viewed until now. I was called irresponsible for leaving them intact last time.
i have NOT ever seen a dog here in pa that has NOT torn one in 46 yrs.
hunting here in woods,YOU WILL TEAR A DEWCLAW.
i see a lot of dogs too hunting and all that have them on,will tear them.

only way to lessen it is to dremel nail short to quick or put tape on them.
i do both on my labs.

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by TraditionsGSPs2010 » Mon May 07, 2012 2:42 pm

There are couple of thoughts that come to mind as I read this. I would wager the reason most folks never hear of dew claw issues is because most dogs used by serious hunter or trialers have them removed. If you have ever seen a dew claw injury, I can tell you they are not pretty. The one that comes to mind is of an old farm dog and his poor feet were so mangled from years of injurying its dew claws that it had trouble walking. Not to mention that if a dog does injure on during the middle of the season, you might as well hang it up for a month or so barring infection or any other complication. The article that state, "most vets never deal with dew claw injuries" is like stating most doctors never deal with curling related injuries. What percentage of hunting/trialing dogs do you think make up a vet's book of business, and of that percentage, how many have their dew claws intact still? I think it is irresponsible to put a dog in a position where it may be injured just because you have never seen it happen before.
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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by JIM K » Mon May 07, 2012 7:55 pm

TraditionsGSPs2010 wrote:There are couple of thoughts that come to mind as I read this. I would wager the reason most folks never hear of dew claw issues is because most dogs used by serious hunter or trialers have them removed. If you have ever seen a dew claw injury, I can tell you they are not pretty. The one that comes to mind is of an old farm dog and his poor feet were so mangled from years of injurying its dew claws that it had trouble walking. Not to mention that if a dog does injure on during the middle of the season, you might as well hang it up for a month or so barring infection or any other complication. The article that state, "most vets never deal with dew claw injuries" is like stating most doctors never deal with curling related injuries. What percentage of hunting/trialing dogs do you think make up a vet's book of business, and of that percentage, how many have their dew claws intact still? I think it is irresponsible to put a dog in a position where it may be injured just because you have never seen it happen before.

no doubt, you are dog hunter.yes, it is GASTLY the injury a dog can have from dewclaw torn.
thats it for season on hunting with that dog.
i am no way going against the others that say leave them on.if you can cover them with something tight so they dont get torn,fine.
they are like a dogs thumb, they are his thumb.

but for hunting dog,from 3 days old i would have claws removed.

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by birddog1968 » Mon May 07, 2012 10:16 pm

JIM K wrote:.
i see a lot of dogs too hunting and all that have them on,will tear them.

This is pure BS, many others have hunted alot of dogs for alot of years with dew claws and they have never had a problem.

I've got a 10 year old pointer here spent his whole life, till now, in pa hunting those famed woods :roll: and his dew claws are intact and not been torn off......Lets not talk in absolutes when it comes to dogs in a certian state (sheesh everything is different in Pa huh :lol: ) seems 46 years would teach you not to talk about dogs in terms of absolutes. :wink:
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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by JIM K » Mon May 07, 2012 10:32 pm

birddog1968 wrote:
JIM K wrote:.
i see a lot of dogs too hunting and all that have them on,will tear them.

This is pure BS, many others have hunted alot of dogs for alot of years with dew claws and they have never had a problem.

I've got a 10 year old pointer here spent his whole life, till now, in pa hunting those famed woods :roll: and his dew claws are intact and not been torn off......Lets not talk in absolutes when it comes to dogs in a certian state (sheesh everything is different in Pa huh :lol: ) seems 46 years would teach you not to talk about dogs in terms of absolutes. :wink:

almost all my hunting has been in pa,so dont get all bent out of shape when you talk to someone with 46 yrs doing it in pa..
anyone that would say leaving dewclaws on dog just does not have the experience hunting in rough ,tough heavy cover woods in ALL weather conditions.
i seen crust on snow tear a dewclaw right off.

but i guess you know more than me so keep recommending to all that ITS SAFE TO LEAVE DEWCLAWS ON.
:roll:

oh, you can come hunting with me anytime in feb when snow is hard. just bring your first aid kit along just in case :lol:
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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by brad27 » Mon May 07, 2012 10:37 pm

If more than one person tells me they have personally seen dew claw injuries that is enough reason, for me, to have them removed.

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by JIM K » Mon May 07, 2012 10:43 pm

brad27 wrote:If more than one person tells me they have personally seen dew claw injuries that is enough reason, for me, to have them removed.
we all have opinions BUT you go to head of class.
6 years ago we had bad ice crust in snow in late jan. we were hunting grouse in pa. yes, i hunt pa and live here :D
all our dogs tore their dewclaws.as their feet went thru the crust the sides of claw caught the hard ice crust.tore them.

THIS IS JUST ONE EXAMPLE.yes over 46 yrs example. :D

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by brad27 » Mon May 07, 2012 10:51 pm

It's simple logic, unless of course, you read something that gives you the benefits for leaving them on. I might be too lazy to read those though. :lol:

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by Wildweeds » Mon May 07, 2012 10:52 pm

Not one person has said that the biggest reason I take them off................. the suns betches are like weapons and really don't feel that good on you when they jump/grabass with you in fun playing around,The pointer I had sported claws and on more than one occasion I took the brunt of the horseplay.Hickerbillys leave them on IMO.Easy enough to cut off yourself if you have the nutsack to do it yourself.I docked tails and dews off of a gsp litter last friday for my buddy,it ain't no big deal and the deal gets done at the right length if you do it yourself.And that my freinds is why farm kids............ kick butt.

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by nikegundog » Mon May 07, 2012 11:03 pm

brad27 wrote:It's simple logic, unless of course, you read something that gives you the benefits for leaving them on. I might be too lazy to read those though. :lol:
Try this, takes about a minute.

http://caninesports.com/DewClawExplanation.pdf

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by brad27 » Mon May 07, 2012 11:15 pm

A minute? You over estimate my reading skills. :lol: JK. Truth is, for me, a majority of FT dogs don't have dew claws and a majority of them don't have problems. And like wildweeds said, having a dog jump on you with dew claws is not fun.

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by Wildweeds » Tue May 08, 2012 12:07 am

I Read it Brad....................... still calling B.S. I figure it like this....................... If my a+ WSU vetrinary graduate Vetrinarian who hunts with a shotgun sporting live rounds.................................bucks them off every hunting dog litter he see's.....................we are doing the right thing and yep he bucks em off of his own dogs too! so it ain't about the money.My hickerbilly setter male still has his and they are really small,I begged and pleaded with the yahoo breeder to knock em off(he does on his brits and wires) but he said "Setters are supposed to have em",his are really small and I've never had a problem but I HAVE seen a dog WITH a HUGE problem in the field when it got ripped almost all the way off,talk about BLOOD!
brad27 wrote:A minute? You over estimate my reading skills. :lol: JK. Truth is, for me, a majority of FT dogs don't have dew claws and a majority of them don't have problems. And like wildweeds said, having a dog jump on you with dew claws is not fun.

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by gotpointers » Tue May 08, 2012 1:20 am

My reasoning is that i already had to retire a good pointer early with tendon problems. I would rather chance a torn dew claw than a possible cripple. I know if i cut off my thumb my arm would suffer muscle loss. Clipping dew claws is no problem with a pair of cuticle scissors at three to four days of age. I wouldint think of not doing it on my labradors. But a big running pointer i am keeping will have them on from now on.

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by JIM K » Tue May 08, 2012 10:38 am

nikegundog wrote:
brad27 wrote:It's simple logic, unless of course, you read something that gives you the benefits for leaving them on. I might be too lazy to read those though. :lol:
Try this, takes about a minute.

http://caninesports.com/DewClawExplanation.pdf

we all have opinions.
a good poll on this could be started on here to see how many of us have had dewclaw torn and type of dog.
i dont know how to start a poll, maybe someone can get it going.

MANY dont go vets.on all my torn dewclaws i did the first aid at home.
most were nail in joint torn.
so VET thing could be low but remember, many dogs dont have claws, so less injurys vrs number of dogs.

a DEWCLAW poll would show,if it is a problem.

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by SHNOOL » Tue May 08, 2012 12:58 pm

My Husky just screwing around in the yard used to tear her dew claws out on a regular basis. I had never heard of the practice of removing them.. but I have to say, you can't have a problem with them if they are gone!

We remove all the pups dews... end of story for us. Use that info as you like.
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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by Hattrick » Tue May 08, 2012 3:23 pm

How about a pic of ur dogs with a injured dew claw

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by slistoe » Tue May 08, 2012 6:38 pm

I have had a good many hard, hard, hard running hard, hard charging dogs for many years. I have yet to own a dog with a tendon problem and have only heard of one. I have seen a few dew claw injuries and the number of dogs I am familiar with that have intact dew claws is disproportionately small. I have removed dew claws on hundreds of pups a 3 days of age. The decision is a no brainer IMO.

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by SHNOOL » Tue May 08, 2012 7:13 pm

Hattrick wrote:How about a pic of ur dogs with a injured dew claw
Really? its been about 2 years. She'd catch it jumping up onto the deck skipping steps. when the claws spread out to stop she would break it right off.
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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by Fireside » Tue May 08, 2012 7:16 pm

I had one get ripped on a Lab bitch a few years ago. It bled like a stuck pig and obviously hurt a lot. Had to have the remainder of it surgically removed and that laid her up for a bit. I will never NOT have them removed again.

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by Tom L. » Tue May 08, 2012 7:31 pm

It looks like some folks have not read the following article. It is pretty evident that the dew claw does provide a purpose.

http://caninesports.com/DewClawExplanation.pdf

The pointer I just bought has his dew claws on and the person I bought him from gave the same explanation. He has a kennel of hard running powerful pointers and this did not seem to be a concern of his. The article seemed pretty logical to me, just because vets and folks have done something one way for a long time does not mean it is always best.
Another point to make, just because an injury bleeds a lot does not mean it is bad. I have had coon slice up dogs ears, chew up dog faces, etc (that bleeds a lot) and it did not faze the dogs. A good flushing and cleaning of the wounds and a round of antibiotics and the dog is ready to roll the next day.
For those who played sports. How many of you had toe nails or finger nails smashed in football games or broken fingers. Did you stop playing.... no you just taped it up real tight and moved on (at no time did you consider amputating the offending appendage). I can assure you most of your dogs would rather have some duc tape (if they will tolerate it) and be allowed to continue their day afield. (I realize if the damage is more than superficial this would not be an option, I am not saying to push your dog if its body is structurally injured).
For dogs that seem to have chronic dew claw injuries, I wonder if those animals had something different about their dew claw that predisposed it to injury.

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by JIM K » Tue May 08, 2012 10:37 pm

we would all like to see our hunting dogs keep their thumbs. i WAS believer that i could just live with dewclaws on my labs.
yes, if you dremel the claws to quick and round them,IT DOES HELP A LOT.
then put tape around area helps too.
i do both on toby my lab but i wish folks that say they are not problem look at my dogs dewclaws.

they are terrible looking from 7 years of hunting hard here in pa .

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by frontline » Tue May 08, 2012 11:10 pm

I hear more stories about issues and deformities caused by poor dew claw removal then I hear about intact dew claws that are kept trim. I don't think severe dew claw injuries are as common as people think unless the dew claws are nonfunctional and hanging from a flap of skin, those should be removed. A dog has control of functional dew claws just like the other digits and should hold them tight-in when need be. If iced-over snow or other severe conditions are present then proper foot gear should be used to prevent injuries, not amputation. Accidents can happen and when they do you deal with it, it's absurd to remove a normal body part, which also carries a risk, just because an injury might happen.

I live in the country and I've never had a dog rip a dew claw (in brush or iced-over snow) but I have had a couple of dogs fall through thin ice on my pond, a dog has a much better chance of saving himself if he has dew claws. I don't remove dew claws, I think it's kinder to leave them on and I believe more people today are re-evaluating what used to be standard practice of automatically removing them.

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by NC Quailhunter » Wed May 09, 2012 6:52 am

I know I am coming in late on this but I think they should be removed in order to avoid the potential of an injury to them. I look at it as preventive medicine. The sport is dangerous enough for our four legged friends so why not take out one variable when you have the opportunity. This is the way I see it and this is not a judgement against anyone that doesn't remove them.
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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by slistoe » Wed May 09, 2012 7:13 am

frontline wrote:I hear more stories about issues and deformities caused by poor dew claw removal then I hear about intact dew claws that are kept trim. I don't think severe dew claw injuries are as common as people think unless the dew claws are nonfunctional and hanging from a flap of skin, those should be removed. A dog has control of functional dew claws just like the other digits and should hold them tight-in when need be. If iced-over snow or other severe conditions are present then proper foot gear should be used to prevent injuries, not amputation. Accidents can happen and when they do you deal with it, it's absurd to remove a normal body part, which also carries a risk, just because an injury might happen.

I live in the country and I've never had a dog rip a dew claw (in brush or iced-over snow) but I have had a couple of dogs fall through thin ice on my pond, a dog has a much better chance of saving himself if he has dew claws. I don't remove dew claws, I think it's kinder to leave them on and I believe more people today are re-evaluating what used to be standard practice of automatically removing them.
As you wish. We ran a grooming shop for a number of years. I only mentioned before about the hard working field dogs and the major traumas associated with field work. The majority of dew claw problems come in the small breeds where they are left unattended to - cockers were the worst. Of all those dogs that came in for trimming with intact dew claws I never encountered one that seemed to have any type of physical control of the dew claw. And believe me, there is considerable opportunity to observe such when grooming. I too have had dogs fall through thin ice - many times simply because they were doing their job retrieving birds for me. None of them had dew claws and all of them returned safely - with the bird. Your hypotheticals are simply that - hypotheticals. Try on a dose of reality and you will find that "kinder" is a purely emotional reaction to a fictitious belief.

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by jlp8cornell » Fri May 11, 2012 5:59 am

I was curious about this subject so I asked for a professional opinion. I work for a bunch of anatomists including the 2 that wrote the book (Miller's...) that was quoted/figure used in the original post.

I spoke with one this morning and in his opinion, there is no valid reason to leave dewclaws on a dog except those that work on soft surfaces, such as a St Bernard working in snow. In that case, the extra digit would give the dog more surface area on which to stand. He said for dogs working on normal/hard surfaces, it is basically a non-functional digit and, take them off.

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by mountaindogs » Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:33 am

This same debate could be tail docking. It started to protect dogs from injury when antibiotics and anesthesia were not really options. But i have seen dews ripped off, tails degloved, and dews and long tailed dogs live a long unharmed lives. Personally i want them off. But like much in life take the gamble or don't and I'll make my own choice too.

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by JIM K » Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:06 am

my sisters daughter has house dog,one of those corky dogs.she took her to dog park to play.corky tore here DEWCLAW badly.
750 dollars at vets.
in all years i hunted ,i saw so many torn dewclaws that i would never leave them on.
they are hard to heal on dog too.
tobys toenail took over 1 year to grow back and he tore it again. :x

but i would only remove them on puppy 3 days old.

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Re: Do the Dew?

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:23 pm

birddog1968 wrote:
JIM K wrote:.
i see a lot of dogs too hunting and all that have them on,will tear them.

This is pure BS, many others have hunted alot of dogs for alot of years with dew claws and they have never had a problem.

I've got a 10 year old pointer here spent his whole life, till now, in pa hunting those famed woods :roll: and his dew claws are intact and not been torn off when it comes to dogs in a certian state (sheesh everything is different in Pa huh :lol: ) seems 46 years would teach you not to talk about dogs in terms of absolutes. :wink:
......Lets not talk in absolutes
You mean like this
This is pure BS
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

frontline
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:09 pm

Re: Do the Dew?

Post by frontline » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:23 am

slistoe wrote:
frontline wrote:I hear more stories about issues and deformities caused by poor dew claw removal then I hear about intact dew claws that are kept trim. I don't think severe dew claw injuries are as common as people think unless the dew claws are nonfunctional and hanging from a flap of skin, those should be removed. A dog has control of functional dew claws just like the other digits and should hold them tight-in when need be. If iced-over snow or other severe conditions are present then proper foot gear should be used to prevent injuries, not amputation. Accidents can happen and when they do you deal with it, it's absurd to remove a normal body part, which also carries a risk, just because an injury might happen.

I live in the country and I've never had a dog rip a dew claw (in brush or iced-over snow) but I have had a couple of dogs fall through thin ice on my pond, a dog has a much better chance of saving himself if he has dew claws. I don't remove dew claws, I think it's kinder to leave them on and I believe more people today are re-evaluating what used to be standard practice of automatically removing them.
As you wish. We ran a grooming shop for a number of years. I only mentioned before about the hard working field dogs and the major traumas associated with field work. The majority of dew claw problems come in the small breeds where they are left unattended to - cockers were the worst. Of all those dogs that came in for trimming with intact dew claws I never encountered one that seemed to have any type of physical control of the dew claw. And believe me, there is considerable opportunity to observe such when grooming. I too have had dogs fall through thin ice - many times simply because they were doing their job retrieving birds for me. None of them had dew claws and all of them returned safely - with the bird. Your hypotheticals are simply that - hypotheticals. Try on a dose of reality and you will find that "kinder" is a purely emotional reaction to a fictitious belief.
Dew claws do have a purpose: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4XflsMEk-k&feature=plcp

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