puppy food?

goldenpatch29 · Post by **goldenpatch29** » Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:40 pm

Just curious about this topic and everyones opinion on it.
my question is at what age would you stop feeding puppy food and graduate to big boy food?

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:04 pm

I feed an all life stage from six weeks.

Jakezilla · Post by **Jakezilla** » Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:05 pm

I never feed puppy I just use adult performance food (30/20) from the start.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:59 pm

i feed puppy food that pup is on to about 12 week slowly mixing in CANIDAE ALS food.puppy chows are easier on pup as food is smaller.]
some of adult food is fairly large for young pup.

its like CANIDAE ALS, those kibbles are fairly large in my opinion for pup that is getting his new teeth.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:02 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:I feed an all life stage from six weeks.

you feed it dry or wet?

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:26 pm

I keep my dogs on puppy food constantly. My Mal is coming up on nine years and is still on puppy formula. Dry kibble is the base of their diet, but I give them scraps, too. People sometimes freak over it, but I just think about eating just dry cereal all the time and imagine it would suck. So, they often times get eggs and maybe some pancakes if someone fixes breakfast, or they get the grease when someone bakes chicken or left over macaroni and cheese. Not a whole lot of scraps, but I'd say they get something every day.

I really like Eukanuba Puppy and how the dogs do on it, but have heard and read about the company doing some pretty crazy stuff to dogs in the lab and have strayed from them some until I read more. Blue Buffalo, Innova and Royal Canin are also feeds I use if I can get them on the cheap and I was surprised to find how well my dogs have done one Diamonds Naturals. Taste of the Wild is a good feed, I think, but it's an all-age feed and doesn't have different formulas for different life stages.

Felicia, what brand do you feed?

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:35 pm

stay away from DIAMOND foods.

3Britts · Post by **3Britts** » Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:38 pm

JIM K wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:I feed an all life stage from six weeks.

you feed it dry or wet?

softened adult feed for about a week and and a half, after that I move to dry.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:04 pm

JIM K wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:I feed an all life stage from six weeks.

you feed it dry or wet?

Jim, I feed dry. I start baby puppies on thawed frozen BilJac as soon as they act like they want to try food, usually at three weeks. Since they get into momma's chow, They are ready to roll on dry food at five to six weeks. This is ProPlan Performance, which is a fairly small kibble. I have German shorthairs.

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:35 pm

JIM K wrote:stay away from DIAMOND foods.

how far away should I stay? Think I should stay out of the shed while my wife opens the new bag? Once it is in the covered container could I go back in? The dogs will sure bedisappointed if they have totay away too.

Ezzy

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:38 am

6 months

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:33 am

ezzy333 wrote:
JIM K wrote:stay away from DIAMOND foods.
how far away should I stay? Think I should stay out of the shed while my wife opens the new bag? Once it is in the covered container could I go back in? The dogs will sure bedisappointed if they have totay away too.

Ezzy

you know what happened at DIAMOND.this is not FIRST time.
do you know dog owners are recieving letters to SUE?my friend just got one because his dog got sick from DIAMOND.
did you know that CANIDAE ALS my favorite will not let DIAMOND handle their food anymore?
you have to know this!

me, i would stay as FAR AWAY from diamond as i could and your dogs will not be disappointed. :roll:

BillThomas · Post by **BillThomas** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:09 am

6 months.

I use Costco brand which Ive found to be fantastic.

It costs about $23 for a 45# bag. Ingredient are top notc and Ive tried them all.

Ms. Cage · Post by **Ms. Cage** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:00 pm

We feed Purina Pro Plan, All Life Stages too. We whelp our pups on this dry adult food and send them home with some. It works for our GSP's.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:20 pm

Ms. Cage wrote:We feed Purina Pro Plan, All Life Stages too. We whelp our pups on this dry adult food and send them home with some. It works for our GSP's.

Well if we're staying away from Diamond, lets add Purina to that list, they had a salmonella recall with their pet foods less than a year ago. :roll:

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:23 pm

JIM K wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:
JIM K wrote:stay away from DIAMOND foods.
how far away should I stay? Think I should stay out of the shed while my wife opens the new bag? Once it is in the covered container could I go back in? The dogs will sure bedisappointed if they have totay away too.

Ezzy

you know what happened at DIAMOND.this is not FIRST time.
do you know dog owners are recieving letters to SUE?my friend just got one because his dog got sick from DIAMOND.
did you know that CANIDAE ALS my favorite will not let DIAMOND handle their food anymore?
you have to know this!

me, i would stay as FAR AWAY from diamond as i could and your dogs will not be disappointed. :roll:

yep,well aware of the recall plus the recall of 30 other companies in past year or so that no one is talking about.Go back and find out what you really are talking about since you don;;t seem to know. I think when I checked there had been something like 50 recalls for the samething in the past couple of years and several others that weren;t connected to dog food but rather they were from companies that are selling human food. wHY AREN'T YOUCONCERNED ABOUT THEM. sEEMS MUCH MORE SERIOUS THAN A VOLUNTARYRECALL BECAUSE SEVERAL BATCHES OF DOG FOOD might BE CONTAMINATED.

Ezzy

ibbowhunting · Post by **ibbowhunting** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:34 pm

i'm just curious why people are not just using puppy food for puppys when i ask the vet about buying dog food they sugguested i wait until at least nine months to start feeding dog food, the bags says a year,and the reason i asked was to buy some food from the vet which as of now i buy my puppy food at a big box store, would been a easy sale so he must have some reason.is it because of easy of having only one food? what i'm i missing here

btw i know very little of the make ups of dog foods and so on. maybe thats where i'm missing the boat

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:40 pm

JIM K wrote: you know what happened at DIAMOND.this is not FIRST time.
do you know dog owners are recieving letters to SUE?my friend just got one because his dog got sick from DIAMOND.
did you know that CANIDAE ALS my favorite will not let DIAMOND handle their food anymore?
you have to know this!

me, i would stay as FAR AWAY from diamond as i could and your dogs will not be disappointed. :roll:

Was the letter similar to this one?

Canidae Pet Food Class Action Investigation

Was Your Dog Harmed After Consuming Canidae Dog Food?

Canidae Dog Food Class Action

A class action lawsuit against the corporations that run Canidae seeks damages for pet owners whose pets were allegedly harmed as a result of eating Canidae dog food products. The Canidae defendants are accused of marketing, manufacturing, and/or distributing Canidae dog food, which, the plaintiff claims, has produced the following illnesses in scores of cherished pet companions:

loose, bloody stool
rectal bleeding
vomiting
lack of energy
death

TraditionsGSPs2010 · Post by **TraditionsGSPs2010** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:15 pm

why do these food questions always turn into a battle about the faults or attributes of Diamond :roll: Please bury the hatchet already.

A good all age food will work perfectly fine in place of puppy food. Check out the ingredients and see for yourself!

Ms. Cage · Post by **Ms. Cage** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:48 pm

We have simply found that the adult foods have a higher concentration or percentage of fat and proteins than the puppy foods. These are the first two ingredients on any dog foods. I show my new pup owners the difference we have found and let them make the decision. Most of our pups have done better with the Pro Plan.

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:59 pm

WE've seen severe choking in small puppies on adult food. My trainer friend had three puppies die from choking CJ

Ms. Cage · Post by **Ms. Cage** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:50 am

Pro Plans kibble bits are smaller than MOST puppy kibble. Over the years we have looked and tried both. It was asked WHY we feed what we do and why we skip puppy food. These are our reasons.

ibbowhunting · Post by **ibbowhunting** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:44 am

Ms. Cage wrote:Pro Plans kibble bits are smaller than MOST puppy kibble. Over the years we have looked and tried both. It was asked WHY we feed what we do and why we skip puppy food. These are our reasons.

thanks for the info

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:06 am

My vet and many others believe high protein and fat ,at a early age, promote too much early growth and overweight and are contributing factors to Hip Dysplasia and other structural disorders. This is why puppy food generally is lower in both.
It is also WHY we start are puppies on puppy food and stay on it for the first 6 months. Also why large breed puppy food( for dogs that will mature over 50 pounds) is lower in protein and fat. WE change at 6 months because it takes 3 to 4 months for the pups digestive system to totally make the change. CJ

dakotashooter2 · Post by **dakotashooter2** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:12 am

Not sure how this will work out but given the opposing opinions on both sides I'm try a mix with this pup. 1/2 puppy 1/2 adult food. So far everything seems to be going fine. I have notice this pup seems to be less gassy than the last one I had on this brand of food but that could be a "personal" issue.....

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:49 am

sometimes cutting back a little on food stops the gas.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:16 pm

I am by no means an expert on dog food. All I can go by is what has always worked for me. I have never fed puppy food and have always had good results with no problems. I have also never noticed any difference in the few different brands I have used.

Charlie

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:21 pm

cjhills wrote:WE've seen severe choking in small puppies on adult food. My trainer friend had three puppies die from choking CJ

wow.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:24 pm

cjhills wrote:My vet and many others believe high protein and fat ,at a early age, promote too much early growth and overweight and are contributing factors to Hip Dysplasia and other structural disorders. This is why puppy food generally is lower in both.
It is also WHY we start are puppies on puppy food and stay on it for the first 6 months. Also why large breed puppy food( for dogs that will mature over 50 pounds) is lower in protein and fat. WE change at 6 months because it takes 3 to 4 months for the pups digestive system to totally make the change. CJ

my breeder is using NUTISOURCE puupy chow.its protein is i believe 31%.
CANIDAE ALS is 24% on protein.
as you can see puppy food has more and more fat in food too.
not being smarty pants just i read info after your comments.

SubMariner · Post by **SubMariner** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:57 pm

cjhills wrote:My vet and many others believe high protein and fat ,at a early age, promote too much early growth and overweight and are contributing factors to Hip Dysplasia and other structural disorders. This is why puppy food generally is lower in both.
It is also WHY we start are puppies on puppy food and stay on it for the first 6 months. Also why large breed puppy food( for dogs that will mature over 50 pounds) is lower in protein and fat. WE change at 6 months because it takes 3 to 4 months for the pups digestive system to totally make the change. CJ

And my vet is just the opposite: she had no problems with feeding EVO Turkey/Chicken to our puppy, who is now a year old. (Evo probably has the highest % of protein in kibbles.)

If you take a look at most puppy foods you see that they usually have a high percentage of protein & fat because that is what the puppy needs to grow bones & muscle. Also, most dog foods are within the right range for calcium to put them as "all age". Additionally, in this forum we're talking about high-energy gun dogs that benefit from the higher protein & fat. These dogs are NOT couch potatoes, even the "house dogs"!

Where vets seem to be concerned is with large breed dogs like Great Danes, Newfies, etc., where giving them too much protein at an early age can promote growth too quickly. But given that this is the Gun Dog Forum, I don't think this is a concern.

As for kibble size, we started the pup off on the "small bites" verson of EVO Turkey/Chicken and when he was older switched him the large bites that the older dog was getting.

FWIW,

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:29 pm

Mixing foods can throw off the Ca-P ratio and that can cause joint and bone issues.

IMO, if a puppy choked to death on kibble, they either had a structural defect or an inattentive owner.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:25 pm

cjhills wrote:WE've seen severe choking in small puppies on adult food. My trainer friend had three puppies die from choking CJ

Choking can happen, regardless of the food, whether it be dogs or people. But I don't see where it would make a difference whether it was puppy or adult food. I know a lot of people, including myself, who never feed puppy formulas and have never heard of this.

Charlie

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:15 pm

SubMariner wrote:
cjhills wrote:My vet and many others believe high protein and fat ,at a early age, promote too much early growth and overweight and are contributing factors to Hip Dysplasia and other structural disorders. This is why puppy food generally is lower in both.
It is also WHY we start are puppies on puppy food and stay on it for the first 6 months. Also why large breed puppy food( for dogs that will mature over 50 pounds) is lower in protein and fat. WE change at 6 months because it takes 3 to 4 months for the pups digestive system to totally make the change. CJ
And my vet is just the opposite: she had no problems with feeding EVO Turkey/Chicken to our puppy, who is now a year old. (Evo probably has the highest % of protein in kibbles.)

If you take a look at most puppy foods you see that they usually have a high percentage of protein & fat because that is what the puppy needs to grow bones & muscle. Also, most dog foods are within the right range for calcium to put them as "all age". Additionally, in this forum we're talking about high-energy gun dogs that benefit from the higher protein & fat. These dogs are NOT couch potatoes, even the "house dogs"!

Where vets seem to be concerned is with large breed dogs like Great Danes, Newfies, etc., where giving them too much protein at an early age can promote growth too quickly. But given that this is the Gun Dog Forum, I don't think this is a concern.

As for kibble size, we started the pup off on the "small bites" verson of EVO Turkey/Chicken and when he was older switched him the large bites that the older dog was getting.

FWIW,

It also has about 12% Ash, which I wouldn't feed to a puppy.

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:34 pm

I hear about the % of protien or fats listed on the label but that has no direct relationship to how much protein and fat the dog is eating. How many times do we hear about feeding a better food since it takes so much less. Anytime you are feeding less how sure are you that the dog and puppy isn't eating less of both elements.

I agree with the slower growth and that is one of the reasoms I don't like the puppy food once the pups start eating a good amount. With the high % and high consumption we are feeding too much. Rather than cut the amount we are feeding I would much sooner use a lower % feed and feed enough so that the pup is not always hungry. As a general statement I see our dog feeding group much more concerned with how much waste they need to clean up than what is really healthy for the dog. It is a case where less is not better and quality is not judged by the amount of fecal matter one has to clean up.

Everyone has their opinion as to what they like, but I sure wish it was more closely based on what is best for the pup rathe than on something some one told them or sadly sone ad from a company that will say most anything to sell more feed.

by Ms. Cage » Yesterday, 22:48

We have simply found that the adult foods have a higher concentration or percentage of fat and proteins than the puppy foods. These are the first two ingredients on any dog foods. I show my new pup owners the difference we have found and let them make the decision. Most of our pups have done better with the Pro Plan.

To keep some from being confused protein and fat are not the first two ingredients in a feed. They do happen to be the only major elements that are required to be guaranteed. That is why they are listed like that.

Ezzy

Post by **Sharon** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:43 pm

JIM K wrote:
cjhills wrote:My vet and many others believe high protein and fat ,at a early age, promote too much early growth and overweight and are contributing factors to Hip Dysplasia and other structural disorders. This is why puppy food generally is lower in both.
It is also WHY we start are puppies on puppy food and stay on it for the first 6 months. Also why large breed puppy food( for dogs that will mature over 50 pounds) is lower in protein and fat. WE change at 6 months because it takes 3 to 4 months for the pups digestive system to totally make the change. CJ

my breeder is using NUTISOURCE puupy chow.its protein is i believe 31%.
CANIDAE ALS is 24% on protein.
as you can see puppy food has more and more fat in food too.
.[/quote]

The last thing i want to do is argue about dog food.

. but are you sure about that statement Jim. When i compared Pro Plan Puppy with Pro Plan Performance , the ratio of fat : protein was almost the same.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:23 pm

Sharon wrote:
JIM K wrote:
cjhills wrote:My vet and many others believe high protein and fat ,at a early age, promote too much early growth and overweight and are contributing factors to Hip Dysplasia and other structural disorders. This is why puppy food generally is lower in both.
It is also WHY we start are puppies on puppy food and stay on it for the first 6 months. Also why large breed puppy food( for dogs that will mature over 50 pounds) is lower in protein and fat. WE change at 6 months because it takes 3 to 4 months for the pups digestive system to totally make the change. CJ

my breeder is using NUTISOURCE puupy chow.its protein is i believe 31%.
CANIDAE ALS is 24% on protein.
as you can see puppy food has more and more fat in food too.
.[/quote]

The last thing i want to do is argue about dog food. . but are you sure about that statement Jim. When i compared Pro Plan Puppy with Pro Plan Performance , the ratio of fat : protein was almost the same.

i had to look myself again. yes, NUTriSOURCE PUPPY CHOW is 32 protein/21 fat.
CANIDAE ALS is 24 protein/14 fat.

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:00 am

[="cjhills"]My vet and many others believe high protein and fat ,at a early age, promote too much early growth and overweight and are contributing factors to Hip Dysplasia and other structural disorders. This is why puppy food generally is lower in both.
my breeder is using NUTISOURCE puupy chow.its protein is i believe 31%.
CANIDAE ALS is 24% on protein.
as you can see puppy food has more and more fat in food too.
.[/quote]

i had to look myself again. yes, NUTriSOURCE PUPPY CHOW is 32 protein/21 fat.
CANIDAE ALS is 24 protein/14 fat.[/quote][/quote]

Nutrisource Large breed puppy ( for puppies who will mature over 50lbs. as is all large breed food I have seen) Is 26 protein and 14 fat Purina pro plan large breed puppy is 28 protein and 13 fat.
I have fed Nutri Source for years with very good results. I live very near the plant . With a large number of dogs the cost has become a problem. I fed performance adult dog 30/20 to many litters. with good results. I observed the choking and quit because of that. Their was nothing wrong with my friends puppies, they just ate too fast. We don't, as a rule, stand over the puppies til they are done eating.
I have not seen a large breed Puppy food over 28 protien. Nor have I talk to a vet who recommends more than 28 %. There may be some I do not know. I have not seem them all.
Before CC tells me I shouldn't have so many dogs if I can't take care of them, They are very well care for.
Dog food companies and universities of Wisc. and Minn. and others have done millions worth of research on this. The Dog food companies don't make puppy food in smaller kibbbles for fun they do it because it is better for the dogs. Incidentally many health problems in dogs,as in people start from overweight puppies and children.
One last point canines were designed many years ago to live on garbage. They were not real successful hunters. Not fast enough or smart enough to catch a whole lot. Most hunts are unsuccessful. It's feast or famine,eat what ever they could find. Everything from rotten road kill to dandelions. Samonella don't have a whole lot of effect on dogs. Wild canine puppies are bone skinny but some survive. Some do any way. Most die from accidents and becoming the neighbors lunch. Mother nature just ain't fair.
Your puppies will do good because or in spite of what you feed them,all will be well. It makes sense to me.
I smoked for thirty years. I didn't get lung cancer. I don't suggest everybody smoke for thirty years because it worked for me.
I also recently changed to Diamond Extreme Athlete with great results (2cups a day at $32 for 40 lbs)and feed my puppies Chicken Soup. How's that for Russian Rollette. CJ

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:00 pm

cjhills wrote: I also recently changed to Diamond Extreme Athlete with great results (2cups a day at $32 for 40 lbs)and feed my puppies Chicken Soup. How's that for Russian Rollette. CJ

Its on sale at Menards about once a month for $30 a bag I believe.

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:14 pm

nikegundog wrote:
cjhills wrote: I also recently changed to Diamond Extreme Athlete with great results (2cups a day at $32 for 40 lbs)and feed my puppies Chicken Soup. How's that for Russian Rollette. CJ
Its on sale at Menards about once a month for $30 a bag I believe.

wish I could get it at that price. I pay $38.

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:12 pm

brad27 wrote: wish I could get it at that price. I pay $38.

That's the price you pay for living so close to the ocean. + $8 a bag.

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:21 pm

I actually got your joke this time.

B&BWeims · Post by **B&BWeims** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:43 pm

I used to stop feeding puppy food at the age of 8-10 months old. I just feed Orijen and Acana All Life Stages now. All life stages can be fed to any age of dog, puppy, young, adult or senior.

SubMariner · Post by **SubMariner** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:40 am

mcbosco wrote:
SubMariner wrote:
cjhills wrote:My vet and many others believe high protein and fat ,at a early age, promote too much early growth and overweight and are contributing factors to Hip Dysplasia and other structural disorders. This is why puppy food generally is lower in both.
It is also WHY we start are puppies on puppy food and stay on it for the first 6 months. Also why large breed puppy food( for dogs that will mature over 50 pounds) is lower in protein and fat. WE change at 6 months because it takes 3 to 4 months for the pups digestive system to totally make the change. CJ
And my vet is just the opposite: she had no problems with feeding EVO Turkey/Chicken to our puppy, who is now a year old. (Evo probably has the highest % of protein in kibbles.)

If you take a look at most puppy foods you see that they usually have a high percentage of protein & fat because that is what the puppy needs to grow bones & muscle. Also, most dog foods are within the right range for calcium to put them as "all age". Additionally, in this forum we're talking about high-energy gun dogs that benefit from the higher protein & fat. These dogs are NOT couch potatoes, even the "house dogs"!

Where vets seem to be concerned is with large breed dogs like Great Danes, Newfies, etc., where giving them too much protein at an early age can promote growth too quickly. But given that this is the Gun Dog Forum, I don't think this is a concern.

As for kibble size, we started the pup off on the "small bites" verson of EVO Turkey/Chicken and when he was older switched him the large bites that the older dog was getting.

FWIW,
It also has about 12% Ash, which I wouldn't feed to a puppy.

I have been trying to find some sort of documentation online that would support that statement, but actually haven't discovered anything substantive on puppies and ash. Or any age of dog for that matter. Can you provide some additional information?

Calvert · Post by **Calvert** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:51 pm

There are plenty of dog foods available in the market. From my experiences, I would suggest: for smaller breed, you may feed puppy food for 7-8 months and for larger breed, the duration might be 1 to 1&1/2 years.