Diamond extreme athlete

codym · Post by **codym** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:20 pm

I have fed diamond sporting dog formula for a while (24/20) and it was kind of hit or miss, dogs would get real loose on it and I had to feed quite a bit to keep thier wieght up. I started using there performance formula (30/20) and the dogs are doing much better good stools and keeping thier wieght up. The guy at the feed store keeps trying to get me to use the extreme athlete(35/25) he will sell it to me at 32 bucks for a 40lb bag. I'm no dog nutrition expert but I 've heard that to much protien can be hard on thier kidneys, Is this true? Also are there any other concerns with feeding a dog food this high in fat and protien? Any people currently feeding this stuff or have in the past and if so what was your experience with it?

Post by **topher40** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:24 pm

I have had good results feeding the EA. does ur dogs activity level warranty a hotter feed though? If the other is working then why would you switch?

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:24 pm

$32 is a good price for EA. I pay &40.

codym · Post by **codym** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:33 pm

topher40 wrote:I have had good results feeding the EA. does ur dogs activity level warranty a hotter feed though? If the other is working then why would you switch?

Not really, they will be working more because it's hunting season and and few more trials but I would like to feed a bit less if possible. Since I get the performance for baiscally the same price as the EA maybe I can feed a little less a save a little money while feeding a higher quailty feed?

Grange · Post by **Grange** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:54 pm

I fed my dogs that food during hunting season about 2 or 3 years ago and I didn't really see a difference compared to Diamond Performance. I couldn't justify the added cost so I went back to Diamond Performance.

shags · Post by **shags** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:16 am

I've been feeding EA for a while now and am very pleased with it. Coats are wonderful, teeth are fairly clean, energy levels excellent. One thing I'm interested in watching, is toenails. Previous dogs on other foods grew what I considered to be old dog nails; larger, kind of squared, a little bit brittle. The change started at age 8or 9 IIRC. On EA both my ten year olds still have regular young dog toenails and for now I attribute it to the extra fat and protein in the food.

With my dogs on EA, I have to be careful of how much they get. It can pack on the weight.

Luminary Setters · Post by **Luminary Setters** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:48 am

I know a springer trainer that is very particular about feed. He doesn't trust labels and periodically sends samples to a private lab for testing. Both of us had feed Diamond in the past and had not been pleased. So, itsurprised me when he called and told me he had been feeding EA for several months. Eight months ago I put 25 % of the kennel on EA and 2 months in the whole kennel is now on it.

Less feed in, less poop out, consistently better stools, outstanding coats ( the short hair dogs look like they have been spit shined) and skin. At $30.00 per 40lb bag it has been the most cost effective feed I have used. I'm feeding on average 20-25 dogs per month, and with that many dogs, I expect and think it is normal for several to have issues with what is being feed. To date every dog has done extremely well, and I highly recommend it to my customers. And no, I don't get any compensation or sponsorship from Diamond

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:22 am

I feed the naturals Chix and Rice as a staple these days, and mix in EA during periods of high activity, I have been really happy with EA, it will keep my one hard keeper looking great. Be careful not to overfeed and start off slow to allow the dog to get accustomed to it. I like to mix it so I don't have to worry about doing a total switch when starting it or going back to my off season Chix and rice.

nanney1 · Post by **nanney1** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:25 pm

If your dogs are doing well on the 30/20 Performance, why change? Sounds like you've found a food that works.

codym · Post by **codym** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:02 pm

nanney1 wrote:If your dogs are doing well on the 30/20 Performance, why change? Sounds like you've found a food that works.

Because it's the same price and if I can feed less of it since it's a hotter feed then I will be saving money.

Thanks for all the great replies I think I will order 10 bags and try it out for a while.

vartz04 · Post by **vartz04** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:14 pm

How much of the EA do you feed daily

shags · Post by **shags** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:56 pm

Three of my setters get a little under 2 cups once a day. My hard keeper gets a little over 2 cups.

vartz04 · Post by **vartz04** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:05 pm

I think I'm gonna switch. I'm giving my weim 4 cups a day of the reg diamond food

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:09 pm

vartz04 wrote:I think I'm gonna switch. I'm giving my weim 4 cups a day of the reg diamond food

Do whatever you want but don't think you will see a big difference.

Ezzy

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:39 pm

My dogs run 7 days a week with a minimum of 2hrs per day and they only get 2 /12-3 cups per day of EA. There is a huge difference between input and output. Some people just don't look as hard. They may think their dogs work hard but that's subjective. Work your dogs hard and you will see the pay off when feeding hotter food.

codym · Post by **codym** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:42 pm

I have 7 dogs right now so if I save even 1/2 a cup per dog thats 24.5 cups per week saved. That adds up to some decent savings per month.

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:29 pm

codym wrote:I have 7 dogs right now so if I save even 1/2 a cup per dog thats 24.5 cups per week saved. That adds up to some decent savings per month.

Have you seen the spreadsheet I made?

viewtopic.php?f=88&t=35847&hilit=+Dog+food+spreadsheet

vartz04 · Post by **vartz04** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:39 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
vartz04 wrote:I think I'm gonna switch. I'm giving my weim 4 cups a day of the reg diamond food
Do whatever you want but don't think you will see a big difference.

Ezzy

I just want to be able to put less in so less comes out. I'll have to look at what the kcals are per cup though. If I could drop him to two cups a day I'd save money and save a lot of cleaning up in the yard. I tried just feeding him less of this stuff but the weight dropped off. I don't hunt him daily but he is an active dog (rarely seen just laying around he is always moving ).

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:54 pm

I am feeding the HE now but didn't see much difference when I switched.

Ezzy

vartz04 · Post by **vartz04** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:46 am

Difference in what. Amount needed to go in or the amount coming out. It's almost 100 more kcal per cup than the plain Jane diamond food.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:15 am

I have not noticed a difference in the amount I have had to feed between the HE and Premuim, And I will admit I have never been on to be concerned about the amount that needed to be cleaned up. If a higher energy feed meant the would go less often that would be nice but I have never found that to be the case when we are talking about the small difference in the amount being fed. The difference would normally be in the amount excreted at a time and if I have to cleanup each pile it makes little difference in how much. So I base how much a dog needs strictly on the dog and never think of how much I clean up. I do not like to cut the amount of feed needed too low as I have seen more internial problems with the gut from too small of a volume than I ever have from too much feed.That really is one of the reasons beet pulp is included in most feeds today as it helps with having healthy intestines.

Try it and see and let us know what effect it has.

Ezzy

vartz04 · Post by **vartz04** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:02 pm

I guess my change would be more drastic as I am going from just standard diamond food not the HE stuff. I bought the EA today so I will report back with results

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:17 pm

I feed the same amounts of EA and the regular Lamb and Rice formula. (23/14) I just use the EA formula during higher stress seasons. I have noticed how it effects my dogs but I have yet to see how it effects my pocket book.

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:17 pm

Noone wants to spend all day picking up after a dog but I think people take cutting back because they use a richer feed to extremes.
Cutting a dog from 3 cups to 2 cups just because you using a 30/20 just isn't right. Forget the calories, you just cut protein intake from about 75 grams to 60 grams. I don't see the benefit in cutting protein by 20%, not to mention other nutrients, like zinc for example. Motility is another issue, I know a guy that uses Evo and his dog eats so little that the dog's stool is like cement when it comes out.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:41 pm

Huh? Why would you get less protein by going to a more concentrated food and feeding less? The only thing you are cutting is the filler so the dog may feel hungry all the time.

I would like to hear from people like Dr.Tim who have knowledge of what level of protein becomes difficult on a dogs digestive system. There's a reason why companies like purina or Annamaet who have invested alot of money on research, don't offer foods with over 30% protein. Maybe it's because of the cost to produce? Maybe it's because very few dogs need a hotter food? (market)

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:50 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:Huh? Why would you get less protein by going to a more concentrated food and feeding less? The only thing you are cutting is the filler so the dog may feel hungry all the time.

I would like to hear from people like Dr.Tim who have knowledge of what level of protein becomes difficult on a dogs digestive system. There's a reason why companies like purina or Annamaet who have invested alot of money on research, don't offer foods with over 30% protein. Maybe it's because of the cost to produce? Maybe it's because very few dogs need a hotter food? (market)

If you feed lets say 3 cups of a 26/16, and you assume a cup is 100 grams, then that is 78 grams of protein and about 1200 calories. Can't be perfect here because the weight of cup can vary. If you go to a 30/20, and drop to 2 cups, which is what a lot of guys do, then you are at 60 grams of protein and about 1000 calories. 60 grams is ok for a smaller dog but you are cutting it close with a big pointer, shorthair or wirehair.

You can cut back to the point where you are even to about 2.5 cups but I wonder if it makes much difference in the end. Clean-up isn't going to be any different and does anyone measure that accurately anyway. What you wind up getting is more fat calories proportionately which maybe that is what some people want.

I would be pick the 30/20 anyway on account of the lower carbs I just don't buy into the you can cut so much argument.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:44 pm

MonsterDad wrote:
Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:Huh? Why would you get less protein by going to a more concentrated food and feeding less? The only thing you are cutting is the filler so the dog may feel hungry all the time.

I would like to hear from people like Dr.Tim who have knowledge of what level of protein becomes difficult on a dogs digestive system. There's a reason why companies like purina or Annamaet who have invested alot of money on research, don't offer foods with over 30% protein. Maybe it's because of the cost to produce? Maybe it's because very few dogs need a hotter food? (market)
If you feed lets say 3 cups of a 26/16, and you assume a cup is 100 grams, then that is 78 grams of protein and about 1200 calories. Can't be perfect here because the weight of cup can vary. If you go to a 30/20, and drop to 2 cups, which is what a lot of guys do, then you are at 60 grams of protein and about 1000 calories. 60 grams is ok for a smaller dog but you are cutting it close with a big pointer, shorthair or wirehair.

You can cut back to the point where you are even to about 2.5 cups but I wonder if it makes much difference in the end. Clean-up isn't going to be any different and does anyone measure that accurately anyway. What you wind up getting is more fat calories proportionately which maybe that is what some people want.

I would be pick the 30/20 anyway on account of the lower carbs I just don't buy into the you can cut so much argument.

Good post. I wrote about the same thing only a little more detail and them lost it and didn't take the time to re-write the whole thing. The one thing I did want to add is there are no fillers in any dog food. Every ingredient they use is there for a purpose. My examle was if you feed 32 ounces then you can cut it back to 29.5 ounces. Don't think you would know the difference either.

Ezzy

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:56 pm

Maybe the word "filler" was a bad choice.

duckn66 · Post by **duckn66** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:41 am

I feed the chicken and rice adult dog. So far I am happy with it, dogs seem to have alot of energy on it. I am however having some difficulty maintaining weight on my older male pointer.

I notice on the HE food the first ingredient is "chicken by product" and ground corn as the next. The EA is chicken, and chicken meal as the first two ingredients.

Everything I have read says that dogs get very little from "by product" of anything and having it listed as the first on the list is not good. Couple that with the second being corn and definately not good.

Can someone shed some light on that. ^

I think rather than switch food I am going to make some high calorie dog treats as supplements for my pointer.

The best food I have ever fed was Science Diet, but back years ago. Gosh my dogs did just flat awesome on it. However, I think that their quality has come down some or other foods quality have risen, one of the two.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:21 am

Chicken By-product meal is probably the best ingredient that you can find for a protein source for dogs. One of the reasons is that it contains so many other essential elements that pure chicken meal does not. But either are good. Corn is also an excellent ingredient as it is high in compound starch and in addition includes sugars, protein. and fat. There are very few ingredients that are as complete as ground corn and on top of all of that it is lower cost here in this country since it is produced here. Most feeds that you can find that will do well for hard working dogs will have corn as one of the top ingredients. I do not know for sure where the old wives tale that corn was a problem in dog feed but it is just that. Going back to earlier times before manufactured feeds hit the market corn bread was probably the No. 1 feed for our dogs and they did well. I think the story that corn wasn't good started when some companies were getting started and had to try to convince people that their feed was better than the home made feed they were using. And many marketing ploys still exist as too many companies try to carve out a niche for their feeds.

Ezzy

Post by **Sharon** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:17 am

Very interesting post.

cohanzick creek · Post by **cohanzick creek** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:12 pm

I feed all my GWP's Diamond High Energy. Never had a problem with it, i dont have problems with loose Stools, and they keep the weight on pretty good. If my dogs are anything its a little bit on the heavy side. Tractor supply sells it, i think its gone up to $28.89
cc

smittty · Post by **smittty** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:01 pm

i feed my setter diamond high energy..out of a gravity feeder he gets all he wants but hewill only eat about two cups a day ..i think its cause for his first three years as an adult dog i feed him two cups a day now that he can get all he will still only eat two cups ..he gets a little on the lean side this time of year but notto bad

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:39 pm

Your lucky! If I fed my dogs out of a gravity feeder I would be broke and they would have to learn how to slither like a snake.

duckn66 · Post by **duckn66** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:35 pm

Good read Ezzy. I think your the only one that has said what you said about dog food (on forums) that I have seen, literally. But what you said makes sense. I'm going to try some HE next bag. I switched to Diamond about a month or so ago and I do notice a definate energy increase in them. Weight on my pointers is the only issue. I like all my dogs on the thinner side but only to a point.

Allin13 · Post by **Allin13** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:31 pm

From what I have gathered, I really would not worry about the protein being too high because dogs can handle high amounts of protein when they're being worked. The old stories of kidney problems from too much protein can't be completely trusted because the studies were mainly done on rats. To me this doesn't make too much sense because rats can't handle high amounts of protein, they eat mainly grains. Make sure they are getting as much water as they want to help filter through the kidneys, though. Just like if you were to take protein supplements you have to drink X amount of water to pass it through your kidneys to decrease the chance of kidneys problems. I stay away from corn as much as I can, it's a cheap filler and might be a good boost for crude protein amount, but crude protein doesn't mean it is digestible protein (Digestible protein is much lower than the "Crude Protein" percentage on the bag). Crude protein is the total amout of protein in the food, not the digestible amount. So if dog food is full of corn or some grains it can boost crude protein amount, but not all is digestible so they aren't able to get the maximum amount out of the food if there are poor ingredients. You really have to watch the ingredients and find out which can actually be utilized by the dog.

phoenix · Post by **phoenix** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:14 pm

I used the EA for a bit but my setters just didn't like it. I couldnt get them to eat it & they looked like pound puppies. I went to ppp and no problems. My boy Jax doesnt keep weight on well this time of year but then he is the top dog & gets hunted 3-4 days a week.

jahwarrior1423 · Post by **jahwarrior1423** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:08 pm

do any of you guys mix diamond chicken with diamond EA or HE?...was thinking about mixing my dogs food in hopes of getting a slightly higher protein but not raising it to much where they gain to much weight. Or is this a dumb idea?

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:19 pm

jahwarrior1423 wrote:do any of you guys mix diamond chicken with diamond EA or HE?...was thinking about mixing my dogs food in hopes of getting a slightly higher protein but not raising it to much where they gain to much weight. Or is this a dumb idea?

Higher protein is not a cause od weight gain to any great extent. To tell you the truth we are all feeding more protein than the dog needs in this climate and the way we work them. Our feed just keep going up every year which adds to the cost but has little benefit for the dog. The result of the higher analysis feeds is we continuelly have people complaining because the dogs stool is too koose. The cure, 9 times out of 10, is to cut back on the feed. We seem to be a culture who thinks if a little is good then a lot is better and it just doesn't work that way. I am yet to see a dog that is starving or not performing because the protein in the feed is too low.

Now, if you want to mix, it is OK. But I think you will find it a complete waste of time. And I will guarantee you your dog won't be impressed but will continue to eat and perform just as it has been unless you feed too much or too rich, then you will have problems. And we all are riding that line.

Ezzy

jahwarrior1423 · Post by **jahwarrior1423** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:37 pm

But wouldnt a higher protein feed help with muscle gain?...or am I over thinking?...if taking your dogs with you while running/hiking, or any type of exercise, wouldnt you want a higher protein feed?

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:54 pm

In theory, yes. But do you eat a higher protein because you are doing 30 minutes of exercise? If you or your pup were starving for protein then you would need more but neither of you are starving and 30, 60, or even 90 minutes of moderate exercise is not going to make a lot of difference in your requirements. On the other hand, if you are going to hook your dog to a sled and pull it at a slow run for ten hours in bitter cold conditions, then we would need to worry about changing the diet.

When you stop the think we use to feed a 10 to 12% ration, you can better understand why you don't really need to worry about your pups diet as much. I will guarantee he is eating better than you .

Ezzy

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:05 pm

Dogs in the wild get a much higher protein level than what most feeds offer. If the dog works hard enough to metabolize the protein then yes, higher protein levels will build lean, healthY muscle. NOBODY can know a dog better than the owner as far as how hard it works, looks, energy levels and what it needs to improve. Dogs burn fat for energy and protein builds muscle. The amount or levels depend on the dogs work load and individual metabolism. Find a trainer feeding something like Ole Roy to a dog that's campaigning for Ames and I may change my stance but crap in equals crap out! Literally.