gsp with hair loss

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cheetome
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gsp with hair loss

Post by cheetome » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:28 am

I have a female gsp she has symetrical hair loss on both sides, back of ears, back of legs, nose ect. I am exhausted trying to find answers over the last year and a half. I have had her tested twice for thyroid (heard it is common to get false tests in dogs) both negative. Had a full blood pannel done -- also negative. She has had skin scrapings and just about everything else a person can think of. She has had a few bacterial infections and was treated but the hair loss continues. She also has lots of dandruff. I have her on taste of the wild with fish oil and sunflower oil. She shows no other signs of anything being wrong. Good weight, no changes in personality ect. I am thinking maybe a new vet for a different oppinion. Have any of you had anything like this? I am tired of fighting it and am looking for any help.

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by MonsterDad » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:48 am

Is this a season problem or all year round?

Talk to a vet about using melatonin if this is a seasonal problem.

cheetome
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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by cheetome » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:26 am

Not sure, the hair loss does get worse seasonally but hair loss occurs year round.

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by MonsterDad » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:43 am

cheetome wrote:Not sure, the hair loss does get worse seasonally but hair loss occurs year round.
A specialist might have some thoughts on using melatonin.

Its worth a shot since the thyroid checks out ok. The symmetry definitely suggest something hormonal and melatonin is known to influence hair growth.

But a Vet is the best resource even though you can buy melatonin at any vitamin store.

cheetome
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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by cheetome » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:35 pm

One thing I forgot to mention is she also started peeing in her doghouse where she sleeps. She had never done that until the hair loss started. Unrelated?

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by dr tim » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:00 pm

I think you mean you have a dog with hair loss on both sides and is not itchy at all. Whether you see this hair loss get better(grows back) in late spring to summer and then it starts again in the winter would be more of the lines of seasonal alopecia and may be responsive to melatonin. I have seen that in labs, dogs of eastern Asian decent(Akitas, boxers, etc) but no Short Hairs that I remember. Other causes would be endocrine types such as sex hormone responsive types, hyperadrenocortical disease(cushings), alopecia X, telogen flux and more. Best bet to diagnose the dog would be a skin biopsy sent off to a good pathology lab that does skin. Have your vet look at what this breed is prone to and you will go the right direction to finding out what it might be in addition to a skin biopsy. But look hard at recurrent flank alopecia due to the seasonal changes if you have seen hair come back and go away again.

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by Sharon » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:26 pm

Excellent post . You just got $.........worth of free advice Sir. :)
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by cheetome » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:00 pm

Thanks for the advice everyone. I was looking fo some new directions. Yes I did mean both sides and not itchy at all. Have heard about the melatonin and will get guidance from vet and start there. Maybe just show him these posts and see what he thinks. Again thanks everyone. I will post back on what we find out.

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by cheetome » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:04 pm

One more thing I forgot was she missed her last heat cycle so the sex hormone thing might be a good thing for the vet to look at.

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by Tyler S » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:13 pm

Sharon wrote:Excellent post . You just got $.........worth of free advice Sir. :)
X10
I went through the same thing with a female GSP several years ago. She had a litter at 3 years old then I had her spayed... Never had another problem with her. Had all kinds of test run on her.

cheetome
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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by cheetome » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:41 pm

Yeah I have spent a good $1500 already and don't seem any closer to an answer than before we started :cry:

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by Sharon » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:51 pm

After that much money I would get a second opinion from a new vet , or is there a Vet College near you ? I don't see your location. That is NOT to say that your vet hasn't done a good job , but a second opinion seldom hurts.

I'm not a vet but what about Demodicosis? Skin scrapings are not always reliable. Mine scraped clear but did have a parasite. Vet tried "Advantage multi 55" even though the scraping was clear . Problem solved after the use of two tubes.(one a month)

Advantage Multi 55 for : otodectes , sarcoptes and demodex.

http://www.vetinfo.com/dog-hair-loss-around-eyes.html
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by Doc E » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:48 pm

Definitely check thyroid.



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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by cheetome » Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:38 am

Update on skin issues. Dog has a staff infection and a bacterial infection--again. Got meds to clear up but will be making a 3 hour trip to a vet who has a good reputation with the guys I test and train with. I need a second opinion... there has to be an underlying cause for these reaccuring infections. Anyway here is a list of things we have tested in the last year plus.

Thyroid 2x...full blood panel....aggressive ivomec treatment for mange and mites...skin scrapings-more times than I can remember...urine tests....special shampoos...selenium and vitamin E injections...we have tried different foods added oils ect. to the diet. At the appointment yesterday the vet thought maybe we should do a skin biopsy and send that in. He also mentioned seasonal alopecia but said he has never seen it before in the shorthairs.

Well that is my update for now I will give a report of the second opinion and I will most likely have the skin biopsy done after that visit.

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by Doc E » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:04 am

This is often seen when a dog's intestinal bacteria (good and bad) are out of balance.
Supplement each meal with a Tablespoon of a quality yogurt (Nancy's and Mountain High are both great).



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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by Cajun Casey » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:01 pm

I have a coming six year old bitch, spayed at ten months who has always had a very thin coat with virtually no hair on her underside. She was a litter runt and had some immune issues with allergies and respiratory infections as a puppy. She eats Diamond Premium and ProPlan Performance and whole wheat peanut butter sandwiches if she can get them. You might consider a food trial with limited ingredients for your girl, but my guess is it's genetic.
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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by dr tim » Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:05 pm

Don't eliminate the seasonal hair loss problems because it is a shorthair as I bet it can happen, just have not seen it. Interesting how that advantage product does work with the mange cases, Sharon.

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by big steve46 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:08 pm

Thyroid tests can be in the low normal range and the dog may need treatment. Like humans, the test ranges may be too wide.
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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by cheetome » Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:25 pm

Update on dogs condition. Met with a new vet for a second opinion. I spent two and 1/2 hours in the room with the vet. 1 of the first things she commented on was why the vet was using the local hospital to get bloodwork and thyroid or any lab checked. She did say they are faster in an emergency but not as good for animal bloodwork? When I got there she was waiting and we went into the exam room she brought a couple of vet books in and we sat down and did a process of elimination and then decided where we wanted to start. We decided to do a full panel thyroid test instead of just the t4 like my last vet was doing(upsetting because I pushed to have the better test) we ran a full blood panel and a urine sample. Now what I like was how she aked if i wanted to do all the tests or just one at a time and she gave me the prices before hand and she was very thorough. We did a good elimination process and she felt it was maybe allergy but I said she never itches or chews at her paws or any of that so I leaned toward thyroid still (i did hours and hours of research during this whole process with the hairloss) She also thought it could be alopecia x or seasonal alopecia but the constant staff and bacterial infection were usually not so much of an issue with alopecia. The other thing we thought long and hard on was a sex hormone issue. We decided on an order and we went with thyroid test 1st. Results from test where she is hypothyroid as I suspected all along. I would like to thank everyone for their help and suggestions. I did print this post and take it with to my visit it was helpful. :D

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by dr tim » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:18 pm

Terrific! Those in house thyroid tests are not what is used to test for low thyroid. The thyoid test that is used is one that requires the blood to be sent off to the proper lab. Glad you found the right diagnosis and a healthy dog should be around the corner.

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by Griffsmom » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:32 pm

You will see the proof shortly as the hair will start coming back as soon as she starts the meds. At least they are not expensive for give.

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by Doc E » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:38 pm

Definitely check thyroid.

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by cheetome » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:14 pm

Well my dog has been on .5mg soloxine for 7 weeks now. Had blood drawn again to see where we are at. Hair has not come back as of yet and she started to get pustules again last Thursday. If her levels come back normal I am going to pull my own hair out as this will most likely mean something else is to blame for the skin and coat issues. That also means back to square one and more frustration! I will post back with lab results. Figure the more I put results here the better I can help someone in the future if the experience the same issues in their own dog.

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by Cajun Casey » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:56 pm

Has this dog been cleared for lupoid dermatosis?
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cheetome
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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by cheetome » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:01 am

Not that I know of but they may not be looking in that direction since there is no itching or soreness. I will talk to the vet about though when she calls with the thyroid recheck results.

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by shags » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:32 am

You didn't mention which tests were done for thyroid. Insist on a full panel, including antibodies, not just TSH. Some individuals produce enough ( or are supplemented enough) to raise TSH levels to normal range, but cannot convert T4 to T3.
T4 needs to be converted to T3 in order to be used at the cellular level. The common thyroid supplements are T4 only.

Good luck with your dog.

cheetome
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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by cheetome » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:35 am

That is a great point. I remember the vet saying she was doining a full panel as the first vet I saw was not but I do not remember hearing her say anything about the antibodies. I will ask her about this as well. Thanks for the the help everyone. I expect a call tomorrow and will post back. Like I said before This post with all the great advice plus my results may shorten someone elses battle with skin issues down the road.

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by Wildweeds » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:14 pm

This was my first thought as well
Cajun Casey wrote:Has this dog been cleared for lupoid dermatosis?

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by Cajun Casey » Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:29 pm

Wildweeds wrote:This was my first thought as well
Cajun Casey wrote:Has this dog been cleared for lupoid dermatosis?
Long term, deteriorating, just feels weird. My dogs have had bird mites, oilfield sludge pititis and a few inglorious injuries, but they heal up.
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by cheetome » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:53 pm

Well vet called back with test results. Thyroid levels normal. So she wants to stop the thyroid treatment because the lab told her the dog would not have had the bumps return and hair regrowth should have started. She said the antibiotics the first vet had the dog on can cause thyroid levels to show low? I mentioned the testing the antibodies with the thyroid test. She said she would see if they could still do that or if another test would need to be done. I also brought up lupoid dermatosis as mentioned and she seemed to not really know what I was talking about. She wants to start a vet script dog food, one of those hypoallergenic pay through the nose foods. Do dogs with food allergies get non itchy symetrical hair loss?? I am at the end of my rope with this. I am not made of money and the vets around here don't seem to know much. Anyway that is all I got. Had high hopes but seems to be heading down the same path as the last vet spend lots of money to get no answers! :evil:

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by dr tim » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:42 pm

Food allergies lead to hair loss from itching. This dog is not itching.

You can always just biopsy the skin and see what the results are. Or try melatonin for several months to see if it is a seasonal hair loss issue.

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by Cajun Casey » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:39 pm

Got a pedigree on this dog? That will tell you if LD is a possibility.
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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by larue » Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:42 am

here is a link to ld,I use what I consider to be one of the finest vets around,and she knew nothing about it.
http://www.gspca.org/Health/lupoid-dermatosis.html

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by big steve46 » Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:48 pm

shags wrote:You didn't mention which tests were done for thyroid. Insist on a full panel, including antibodies, not just TSH. Some individuals produce enough ( or are supplemented enough) to raise TSH levels to normal range, but cannot convert T4 to T3.
T4 needs to be converted to T3 in order to be used at the cellular level. The common thyroid supplements are T4 only.

Good luck with your dog.

That's why the older prescriptions for low thyroid were Armour Whole Thyroid that has both. You can get it. My wife takes it because the synthetic levothyroxine made her feel bad.
big steve

cheetome
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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by cheetome » Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:45 pm

Vet did test the antibodies at my request. Came back normal. She still wants to go the food allergy route. I am not happy with that as I said dog has zero itching. She still stands by saying the dog is not thyroid because her levels were normal and after 8 weeks she started to get small pustules and a bacterial infection. She said the antibiotics the other vet gave can cause a low reading. I am fed up with the vets around here. This dog has symmetrical hair loss on back of legs along sides muzzle ears ect. She has dry coarse hair that pulls out easily, her hair on back has turned a rusty color and she has dry flaky skin and I do not bathe her very often. She has also been wetting the bed which also started with the rest of this. I think it is something hormonal and and I am sick of vet bills that don't result in anything more than a smaller bank account. I think I will just spay her and be done with it. Hope that will fix the problem! :(

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by cheetome » Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:48 pm

She also said LD was out. Got more antibiotics and a prescription for allergy food that will run $80-90 a bag!

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by mountaindogs » Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:24 pm

Dermatology is a pain and most gets are really just trying rule out diagnosis after the obvious. I had one that took 2 years to diagnose a food allergy. Vet was just so sure it was not allergies. Different symptoms than yours. But was VERY frustrating. Have you had an ultrasound? Maybe adrenal, pituitary, or the like? The urinary clue may be the best one. Or not. These issues are so hard!

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by cheetome » Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:01 pm

what would the ultrasound be for? I have thought the same about the urinary thing but both vets seem to just blow it off, almost don't even address it seems I have had to repeat just to be sure they heard me talk about it.

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by mountaindogs » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:10 pm

Adrenal tumor comes to mind. But bloodwork usually looks like cushings.

My lab has a chronic wet cough and we can't figure it out.( not heart or heartworms, lungs clear, no allergies or other issues except increased thirst.) Its been 2 years. Sometimes vets just do not know. Frustrating.

Good luck

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by gsp_owner » Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:16 pm

Cheetome, what's the status of your dog? I have a female gsp with similar issues (hair loss, no itching) only her hair loss is located mostly on her sides and back about midsection on the dog. I've been to my regular vet and 2 dermatologists and no solution yet. Had all the blood work done that you had, etc. with nothing found. All 3 have told me it's seasonal flank alopecia, which I'm not buying. Melatonin was prescribed, didn't do a thing. Her condition is only getting worse and has been ongoing for almost 2 years. The problem didn't start until after she was spayed. Have you done the biopsy yet and if so what did those results find? I'm reluctant to cut the dog for a biopsy unless that's a last resort. Looking forward to your reply. Thanks.

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by dog dr » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:55 am

test the dog for cushings.

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by gsp_owner » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:50 pm

dog dr, I've been googling cushing's and the only symptom that my dog has is the hair loss. there's no weight gain, extended belly, urination issues, skin color change, etc. and the dog is only 6 years old. Do you think I should still test for cushing's given this added information? thanks

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Re: gsp with hair loss

Post by dog dr » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:39 am

the peeing in her bed could be part of a polyuria/polydypsia problem, which can be a sign of cushings. part of the reason I would do the test is because at this point, cushings is one of the few things you HAVENT ruled in or out yet. AND, its pretty easy for me to spend somebody elses money! :wink: :wink: sorry it took me so long to respond.

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