Gun Dog Forum

As some of you know my dog banks had some diarrhea issues before, he had them this weekend but it was very hard to tell because it rained and we werent sure if it was diarrhea or just the rain, he seemed to get better on monday and tuesday, we thought maybe its because he gets stressed going to my dads house every weekend, because it seems to happen those times. Today (i watched) it all looked normal although it came out faster, it was all whole, but the last little bit was runny
Our vet has always said to feed instant rice for a few days if they have stomach issues, is this something i should do or dont you think it is serious?
Isaac and Banks

Didn't you just switch dog food as well?

I'd cut back on the amount of food for a few days and see if he firms up. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

If cutting back doesn't work try a tea spoon of Canned pumpkin with it's meals, not pumpkin pix mix, 100% plain pumpkin.

Are you giving banks any type of treats? My dog gets an upset stomach when we give him milk bone treats.

Red wrote:If cutting back doesn't work try a tea spoon of Canned pumpkin with it's meals, not pumpkin pix mix, 100% plain pumpkin.

Above, and add in some (1 large Tablespoon) QUALITY yogurt (no sugar no flavors) (Nancy's or Moutain High are best).
This is something that our dogs get three times a week -- NEVER have poop problems.



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Three of our five dogs don't tolerate rice. They would get soft poop from time to time. Once I changed to a grain-free(no rice) dry food - no more soft poop. I also give the dogs (Mt High plain yogurt) every day.

What you described was not a problem in my mind. Cuting feed is always a good first step and it won't hurt a thing for Banks. Then after a day or two you can slowly increase it again. Yogurt or pumpkin are good additives if and when needed but have never had a case where I needed it so our dogs have never tasted either. I think you are spemding too much time looking for problems that don't exist. Relax and enjoy the pup and let the pup enjoy you.

Ezzy

Fran Seagren wrote:Three of our five dogs don't tolerate rice. They would get soft poop from time to time. Once I changed to a grain-free(no rice) dry food - no more soft poop. I also give the dogs (Mt High plain yogurt) every day.

Getting soft poop doesn't mean your dogs can't tolerate rice. It just means they were getting a little more than they needed. Taking grain out of a feed will practically always result in a firmer stool as the feed does not have as much carbs and results is firmer stools do to less moisture retained in the bowel. That is not necessarily a good thing but shouldn't be a problem if kept within reason. But do watch for straining especially if the dog is not getting plenty of exercise.

Ezzy

If all of this keeps up i will try some of your remedies, i guess we are being over protective because we have lost 3 cats, 4 dogs, and a horse (3 unexpeted) it was not a good year, you cant blame us for caring right
I am still working out the kinks with his new dog food on the amount, he looks good now but im not sure how much im giving him (ie half the cup i use to feed him) but he doesn't look to be getting fat,
He never gets treats (except xmas and bday) or anything out of ordinary
Like i said, if he continues i will try some stuff
Thanks,
Isaac and Banks

Isaac,
What food did you switch to and how large is the "cup" your using. Using a measuring cup (8oz) find out how much your cup is really holds.
Here is why I ask...
Some years ago I had a good friend compain to me that his male Lab was getting really fat. I said how much food are you feeding him? He replied... only 2 cups in the evening. When I went over to his house and saw the "cup" he was using I saw the problem. The "cup" was a plastic beer stein that held 4 cups of dog food. The dog was eating 8 cups of food a day. YIKES!

That was an easy problem to fix. In 3 months his adult male was back to excellent weight.

I always start with rice and boiled hamburg when diarrhea hits. There can be many simple , non serious reasons for it. If it isn't cleared up in maybe 3 days , i see the vet.

Try a couple days of Promax Equine.....all it is the good bacteria and enzymes to help get the digestive system back in track

For dogs you give about 5 grams a day for horses that get soft stools specially after antibiotics you give 10 grams per 300 pounds

If you have a Pet club near you that is where I get and keep ours on hand..sometimes stress like weather changes and stuff can bring on the runs also. As long as the dog is alert and doing good I keep watch but do not fret to much over it

MikeB wrote:Isaac,
What food did you switch to and how large is the "cup" your using. Using a measuring cup (8oz) find out how much your cup is really holds.
Here is why I ask...
Some years ago I had a good friend compain to me that his male Lab was getting really fat. I said how much food are you feeding him? He replied... only 2 cups in the evening. When I went over to his house and saw the "cup" he was using I saw the problem. The "cup" was a plastic beer stein that held 4 cups of dog food. The dog was eating 8 cups of food a day. YIKES!

That was an easy problem to fix. In 3 months his adult male was back to excellent weight.

He is eating mostly Diamond puppy food, 30/21
The "cup" is not quite 4 cups full, about 3.75 or so, he gets about half that twice a day
Isaac and Banks

Rice is ok but instant rice has too many preservatives and can cause reactions such as hives. It does sound like your feeding a large amount of food though.

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:Rice is ok but instant rice has too many preservatives and can cause reactions such as hives. It does sound like your feeding a large amount of food though.

Sounds like a lot of food and probably too much fat for that pup. I like moderate protein/fat ALS foods for larger breed pups.

When's the last time this dog had a parasite preventative/treatment and what was it?

The 30/21 puppy food could be to much for his system. I would use a standard 8 oz. cup and try 1.5 cups AM / PM or 3 cups a day and see if he firms up. I like to know exactly how much I am feeding and how muc their eating. There is no "about" in my feeding program. But then thats just me.

The label on your dog food bag will tell you how many cups of food to give for his weight range. Do what the bag says. Weigh your pup. The advice to deworm the pup is good advice. See the vet if this continues.

Double Shot Banks wrote: He is eating mostly Diamond puppy food, 30/21

Isaac and Banks

IMO, Puppy food that is 30% Protein & 21% Fat is waaaay too high.
And, do you know what "Chicken by-product" is ?


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The problem is, there are dozens of reasons that the dog might have diarrhea. Could be the random squirts, ate something he shouldn't have, all the way up to pancreatic disfunction and inflammatory bowel disease. The last of these is what my dog has (had the biopsy done to prove it out). So, the vet needs to eliminate all of the most likely culprits. But, if it persists, it can sometimes be difficult to get the vet to investigate further.

The first thing that needs to be done is to rest the system. Even now, when my dog gets flare-ups, we rest the system. No food. 24 hours. Then slowly reintroduce many small meals of something that the dog tolerates well. Therein lies the problem...the dog's feed or the supplemental feed could be a culprit. Baby food is often good, as is rice. Boiled ground beef or chicken is often good too. YMMV, though. I've got a supply of Science Diet H/D that is supposedly easy to digest, but have found that that stuff is not so good for my dog. The best thing for my dog is to get him back on his regular feed, just slowly. Rice is good for my pup too.

Unfortunately, it is a lot of trial and error as food goes. My dog is 3 and I am still playing games. Pumpkin is a good thing to try because of the fiber. Metamucil accomplishes the same thing. People recommend yogurt for the probiotics...you can deliver a broader spectrum of probiotics in a pill form.

Giardia is often a culprit. The vet will prescribe metronidazole (Flagyl). This stuff is just OK against Giardia, but it has a side effect of firming up the stool. Better is SafeGuard or a mix of SafeGuard/Flagyl. The Flagyl sometimes takes 3 weeks to act.

If I eat a meal that is rich and fatty, my system doesn't handle it well. If I eat a lot, my system does not handle it well. I've found that less is more with regard to my dog... I was feeding huge meals to get the weight back on the pup. That was exacerbating his problems! He started gaining when I fed LESS. Now I am playing with fat content a bit. but personally not seeing much change.

Keep the dog hydrated...most important. Do what the vet suggests. Read up on the topic. If it seems like it keeps happening, seems chronic, seems like the dog is getting skinny, raise a ruckus with the vet to get him or her to start testing beyond just worms or just giving the pat answer of "rest and rice". Also, get a thermometer and take the dog's temp. this will indicicate if something else is going on.

Good luck.

RickB

If I read the post right the pup does not have diarrhea I said the pup was a little loose at the very end of a bowel movement. That is not diarrhea and is very normal as it is often caused by exercise, excitement, slightly more feed than he needs, or anything else that promoted an earlier than usual movement.

And to answer, Doc E's question about chicken by-product meal, it is the most complete nutritional ingredient that is used in dog food. The No. 1 choice of many nutritionist if they are in an area where it can be bought and delivered at a reasonable price. Probably the main reason so many manufacturing plants are located close to poultry processing plants.

Isaac, you and your pup are doing fine. Listen to your dad and neighbor. Best advice you have recieved since you have been on the forum is go get a job helping your neighbor and learn from the people who know what they are doing as well as knowing you and your pup. There is not a soul on this forum who can give you as good of advice as the people who are there and can see what needs doing and when. It is great to have someone your age want to train their pup like you do, but you have to learn not only to ask for help but who to ask. And normally that will be the experienced people in your community. Use them, enjoy your pup, stop worrying about ruining him as that is hard to do even when you make a mistake or two, and learn just as much as you can from those arouind you.

Ezzy I

You can't ask that question about chicken by products because in some parts of the world they are dinner. Chicken feet for example are served as a staple in some parts of the world, as are other parts of birds and mammals.

Not a fair or accurate statement DocE.




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I think for 60 + years PAUL IAMSdid pretty well with his Iams Chunk/Mini Chunk formula dog food using Chicken By-Product meal (organ meat only) and ground yellow corn. It fueled millions upon millions of dogs back in the day. When Eukanuba came along as only 1 formula 30/20 they added Chicken Meal to the already excellent Iams Chunk formula.

Nothing wrong with chicken by products if it organ meal only. IMHO.

Organs only by-products are great, but I don't know if it's even available anymore.
Common by-products contain things that aren't even digestible (like beaks and toe nails - small amounts of feathers etc)

We will periodically top dress our dog's food with some goodies that we get from a place in CO.
It comes from (your choice) Bison, Elk, Whitail Deer, Fallow Deer, Red Deer and Goat.

Here's the description of one of their products : USDA quality WHITETAIL DOG'S VENISON BUFFET (TM)
Ingredients are RAW, Whitetail Deer meat, deer organs such as liver, heart, tongue, kidney, spleen, pancreas and other parts. Ground to the consistancy of burger meat, flash frozen in 1# packs and ready to serve.



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like beaks and toe nails - small amounts of feathers etc) Bet those chicken have long long toenails and beaks th size of a platypus if they are to change the chemical make up of the food much more than an iota. But they do help a little providing for better joint health when fed. And feathers that are hydrolized are pretty good protein but have to be fed at a low rate since they are really short on several of the amino acids. But when you consider most of the feathers are not included and just the few that were attached to some skin or meat get into the meal it is a moot point. It has been researched and proven many times over what the nutritional value is and it is one of the very best ingredients on the market for how it is used.

Your description of that product you use sound like a quakity hot dog to me. Bet it is something the dogs really like.

ezzy333 wrote: But they do help a little providing for better joint health when fed.

Non-digestible (keratin protein).
Chicken by-products contain little or no skeletal muscle (meat). They use whatever is left over after
the meat has been removed for human consumption.


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Double Shot Banks wrote:If all of this keeps up i will try some of your remedies, i guess we are being over protective because we have lost 3 cats, 4 dogs, and a horse (3 unexpeted) it was not a good year, you cant blame us for caring right

All this year? Yikes! That might make a person a little gunshy.
I am sure your dog will be fine with the care and attention you are giving it. Yes, stress of going somewhere else can cause temporary loose stool. We see it in the boarding kennel lots.

Doc E wrote: And, do you know what "Chicken by-product" is ?

Whatever it is or is not, I know it is one of the best products for fueling a dogs metabolism.