Gun Dog Forum

I bought the last of the 18kg Maintenance and Performance bags to day, from the shelf. The bags are now 15 kg for the SAME PRICE. Is this just happening in Canada or also in the USofA?

I haven't seen a change here yet. I am in need of a bag soon so I can let you know if there is a difference in weight.

Joe

Prices here are going up and bags are getting smaller. I used the Purina puppy chow for years. Grain is the first ingredient. I checked out the ol Roy premium and it has a meat product as the first ingredient. Still cheap at 50 cents a lb too.

Pro Plan Performance here is still in the 37.5# bags. Price went up $1 back about 8 weeks ago.

I'd only feed Ol Roy to my dog if I didn't like him...

Back wrote:Pro Plan Performance here is still in the 37.5# bags. Price went up $1 back about 8 weeks ago.

I'd only feed Ol Roy to my dog if I didn't like him...

The ol Roy in the red bag I would have to agree but the performance formula was better than Purina puppy chow. The pro plan and not too far off the performance formula which I found the following for.

And I quote

Pros: First ingredient is anamed meat product

Cons: Inadequate meat content, byproducts and fat of unidentifiable origin, low quality grains and filler

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Nestle Purina Pro Plan Performance Formula

Reviews Views Date of last review 1 37768 Thu January 10, 2008

Recommended By Average Price Average Rating No recommendations None indicated None indicated

Description: Feeding guideline: A 50lb dog should be fed about 2 1/3 cups

CALORIE CONTENT (CALCULATED): Metabolizable Enerfgy (ME) 4406 kcal/kg 2003 kcal/lb 493 kkcal/cup

Digestable Energy 2173 kcal/lb 535 kcal/cup

INGREDIENTS: Chicken, corn gluten meal, brewers rice, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), poultry by-product meal (natural source of glucosamine), whole grain corn, corn bran, fish meal (natural source of glucosamine), animal digest, fish oil,dried egg product, potassium chloride, salt, calcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, Vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin,menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite. S-4461

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: Crude Protein (Min) 30.0% Crude Fat (Min) 20.0% Crude Fiber (Max) 3.0% Moisture (Max) 12.0% Linoleic Acid (Min) 1.8% Calcium (Ca) (Min) 0.9% Phosphorus (P) (Min) 0.7% Selenium (Se) (Min) 0.30 mg/kg Vitamin A (Min) 15,000 IU/kg Vitamin E (Min) 500 IU/kg Ascorbic Acid* (Min) 100 mg/kg Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA)* (Min) 0.12% Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA)* (Min) 0.12% Glucosamine* (Min) 500 ppm Glutamine* (Min) 1.0%

*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.

Author Post a Reply Editors

Registered: October 2005 Posts: 3957

The first ingredient is a named meat product. This is not a meal ingredient, but is inclusive of water content (about 80%). Once that is removed, as it must be to create a dehydrated product, the ingredient will weigh around 20% of its wet weight. Ingredients are listed in order of weight, and the dehydrated ingredient would probably be more accurately placed much further down the ingredient list. It is unlikely that this ingredient makes any significant contribution to the overall meat content of the food. The main meat ingredient in this food is in fact poultry by-product meal. It is impossible to ascertain the quality of by-products and these are usually products that are of such low quality as to be rejected for use in the human food chain, or else are those parts that have so little value that they cannot be used elsewhere in either the human or pet food industries. The AAFCO definition of poultry by-product meal is “a meal consisting of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered poultry, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs and intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unavoidable in good processing practice.” Unable to be identified even by species or source, it is a very low quality ingredient. This is the 5th ingredient, making it unlikely that there is any significant meat content in the food at all, but rather it is primarily a collection of grains.

Fish meal is a further meat ingredient in the food, but it is far too far down the ingredient list to make any significant contribution to the overall meat content of the food. We find no sign on the manufacturer's website of a guarantee that only ethoxyquin-free protein ingredients are used in this food (ethoxyquin is a chemical preservative, commonly added to fish ingredients, and that is banned or heavily regulated in human food due to the belief that it is carcinogenic).

The main grains, and main ingredients, in the food are corn and brewers ricet. Corn is a difficult to digest grain of limited value in dog food. It is also commonly associated with allergy problems. Corn gluten meal it is that part of the commercial shelled corn that remains after the extraction of the larger portion of the starch, gluten, and term by the processes employed in the wet milling manufacture of corn starch or syrup. In plain English, the remains of corn after most of the nutritious bits have been removed. Brewers rice is a low quality grain and byproduct. Corn bran is a grain fragment and further filler.

Animal fat is an ingredient of unidentified origin for which it is impossible to determine species, source or quality. Unidentified ingredients are usually very low quality. AAFCO define this asobtained from the tissues of mammals and/or poultry in the commercial processes of rendering or extracting. It consists predominantly of glyceride esters of fatty acids and contains no additions of free fatty acids. If an antioxidant is used, the common name or names must be indicated, followed by the words "used as a preservative". We note this is the fourth ingredient in the food and that research at Purdue University has identified fat in the top four ingredients of dry food as a factor increasing the risk of bloat in large breed dogs. Smaller breeds are untested. We would prefer to see the use of whole eggs rather than egg product in the food.

We note the use of synthetic vitamin K, a substance linked to liver problems and that is progressively being removed from better quality products.

At least give dogfoodanalysis.com a reference if you're going to quote them. Though I'm sure most here already knew where that 1 star rating and subjective opinion came from.

Given prices, and the fact most of the people on here have multiple dogs and friends with multiple dogs and friends of friends with multiple dogs, buying pallets direct from Dr. Tim's or Inukshuk makes a whole lot of sense.

Using a 26-18 Sportsman's Mix or something similar will cost less than 60 cents a pound, and will last nearly 50% longer than Ol'Roy Premium. Hence, more cost effective. Paying a dollar a pound or more for feed is likely only beneficial to the owner's mentality.

That sounds like a great option Big Steve thanks. I did see the high ratings on the Kirkland brand from costco. I don't mean to be cheap but I'm always looking to get more and pay less. And less soft serve piles in the yard would be great too!!

gotpointers wrote:That sounds like a great option Big Steve thanks. I did see the high ratings on the Kirkland brand from costco. I don't mean to be cheap but I'm always looking to get more and pay less. And less soft serve piles in the yard would be great too!!

It is made by Diamond.

gotpointers wrote:

Back wrote:Pro Plan Performance here is still in the 37.5# bags. Price went up $1 back about 8 weeks ago.

I'd only feed Ol Roy to my dog if I didn't like him...

The ol Roy in the red bag I would have to agree but the performance formula was better than Purina puppy chow. The pro plan and not too far off the performance formula which I found the following for.

And I quote

Pros: First ingredient is anamed meat product

Cons: Inadequate meat content, byproducts and fat of unidentifiable origin, low quality grains and filler

Home · Search · Member List · Login

Home » Dry Dog Foods » 1 Star Dry Dog Food « Previous Product · Next Product »

Nestle Purina Pro Plan Performance Formula

Reviews Views Date of last review 1 37768 Thu January 10, 2008

Recommended By Average Price Average Rating No recommendations None indicated None indicated

Description: Feeding guideline: A 50lb dog should be fed about 2 1/3 cups

CALORIE CONTENT (CALCULATED): Metabolizable Enerfgy (ME) 4406 kcal/kg 2003 kcal/lb 493 kkcal/cup

Digestable Energy 2173 kcal/lb 535 kcal/cup

INGREDIENTS: Chicken, corn gluten meal, brewers rice, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), poultry by-product meal (natural source of glucosamine), whole grain corn, corn bran, fish meal (natural source of glucosamine), animal digest, fish oil,dried egg product, potassium chloride, salt, calcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, Vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin,menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite. S-4461

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: Crude Protein (Min) 30.0% Crude Fat (Min) 20.0% Crude Fiber (Max) 3.0% Moisture (Max) 12.0% Linoleic Acid (Min) 1.8% Calcium (Ca) (Min) 0.9% Phosphorus (P) (Min) 0.7% Selenium (Se) (Min) 0.30 mg/kg Vitamin A (Min) 15,000 IU/kg Vitamin E (Min) 500 IU/kg Ascorbic Acid* (Min) 100 mg/kg Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA)* (Min) 0.12% Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA)* (Min) 0.12% Glucosamine* (Min) 500 ppm Glutamine* (Min) 1.0%

*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.

Author Post a Reply Editors

Registered: October 2005 Posts: 3957

The first ingredient is a named meat product. This is not a meal ingredient, but is inclusive of water content (about 80%). Once that is removed, as it must be to create a dehydrated product, the ingredient will weigh around 20% of its wet weight. Ingredients are listed in order of weight, and the dehydrated ingredient would probably be more accurately placed much further down the ingredient list. It is unlikely that this ingredient makes any significant contribution to the overall meat content of the food. The main meat ingredient in this food is in fact poultry by-product meal. It is impossible to ascertain the quality of by-products and these are usually products that are of such low quality as to be rejected for use in the human food chain, or else are those parts that have so little value that they cannot be used elsewhere in either the human or pet food industries. The AAFCO definition of poultry by-product meal is “a meal consisting of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered poultry, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs and intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unavoidable in good processing practice.” Unable to be identified even by species or source, it is a very low quality ingredient. This is the 5th ingredient, making it unlikely that there is any significant meat content in the food at all, but rather it is primarily a collection of grains.

Fish meal is a further meat ingredient in the food, but it is far too far down the ingredient list to make any significant contribution to the overall meat content of the food. We find no sign on the manufacturer's website of a guarantee that only ethoxyquin-free protein ingredients are used in this food (ethoxyquin is a chemical preservative, commonly added to fish ingredients, and that is banned or heavily regulated in human food due to the belief that it is carcinogenic).

The main grains, and main ingredients, in the food are corn and brewers ricet. Corn is a difficult to digest grain of limited value in dog food. It is also commonly associated with allergy problems. Corn gluten meal it is that part of the commercial shelled corn that remains after the extraction of the larger portion of the starch, gluten, and term by the processes employed in the wet milling manufacture of corn starch or syrup. In plain English, the remains of corn after most of the nutritious bits have been removed. Brewers rice is a low quality grain and byproduct. Corn bran is a grain fragment and further filler.

Animal fat is an ingredient of unidentified origin for which it is impossible to determine species, source or quality. Unidentified ingredients are usually very low quality. AAFCO define this asobtained from the tissues of mammals and/or poultry in the commercial processes of rendering or extracting. It consists predominantly of glyceride esters of fatty acids and contains no additions of free fatty acids. If an antioxidant is used, the common name or names must be indicated, followed by the words "used as a preservative". We note this is the fourth ingredient in the food and that research at Purdue University has identified fat in the top four ingredients of dry food as a factor increasing the risk of bloat in large breed dogs. Smaller breeds are untested. We would prefer to see the use of whole eggs rather than egg product in the food.

We note the use of synthetic vitamin K, a substance linked to liver problems and that is progressively being removed from better quality products.

I'm going to be honest... That is way to many words for me to read this late at night...

Besides being too many it doesn't say anything.

Ezzy

It says corn gluten meal should be the first ingredient by dry weight.

gotpointers wrote:It says corn gluten meal should be the first ingredient by dry weight.

No it doesn't. All it says is Corn Gluten is the second largest ingredient but even that is not always what you think. You cannot determine a formula from the list of ingredients on a bag. That is not what it is on there for.

Ezzy

[I don't know what you are seeing or not seeing Ezzy.

"The first ingredient is a named meat product. This is not a meal ingredient, but is inclusive of water content (about 80%). Once that is removed, as it must be to create a dehydrated product, the ingredient will weigh around 20% of its wet weight. Ingredients are listed in order of weight, and the dehydrated ingredient would probably be more accurately placed much further down the ingredient list."

ezzy333 wrote:

gotpointers wrote:It says corn gluten meal should be the first ingredient by dry weight.

No it doesn't. All it says is Corn Gluten is the second largest ingredient but even that is not always what you think. You cannot determine a formula from the list of ingredients on a bag. That is not what it is on there for.

Ezzy

So what's it there for? Isn't there some regulations for Animal Food Labels?

I wish the European standard was used. Labelling there requires the percentage of weight to be listed.

Let me try to explain it. Suppose you get an order for a ton of feed. And the formula has chicken in it. So lets say you use 1000 lbs of chicken and a 1000 of the other ingredients.Since the chicken will lose 700 lbs during the processing you will only get 1300 lbs of feed so I am 14 bags short of the ton I had to make. So I have to fix that so next time I use 3333 lbs of chicken and the 1000 of the other ingredients and during the processing I lose 2331 lbs of weight but still have 2000 lbs of product when I am through. Chicken is still the No. 1 ingredient even after it is dried. And I have 40 50lb bags of feed when you come to pick it up.

Other things that happen that keep the list from meaning much, I know you want an animal ingredient listed first so I make a feed with 300 lbs of a meat meal and follow it with 290 lbs of 3 different vegetable ingredients. You are happy with it. I make another feed with 300 lbs of corn followed by a 3 290 lbs of animal protein and you aren't happy with it because it is corn based instead of animal or meat based. And the feed with the corn as the first ingredient is the one that is meat based and not the one you would pick. Remember if there is 300 lbs of one ingredient and 299 of another the first one listed is the 300 lbs. So in actuallity the feed would be the same no matter which ingredient was listed as 300 and the other at 299, you might like the feed if the 300 was meat meal and the other was corn but wouldn't like it if they were listed the other way around. And the feed would be the same either way.

Lists are lists but formulas are what matters and those are not divulged by anyone because they are the companies private property, plus they are not important since it is the total package that has to meet the dietary necessities of whatever animal you are feeding. My advice is to spend a whole lot less time reading the bag and read your dog. That is what will tell you how good the feed is.

Ezzy