Ivomec questions

jahwarrior1423 · Post by **jahwarrior1423** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:15 pm

I know that the topic has been talked about...but I just want the certainty before I buy the stuff.

Is this the correct Ivomec to buy?...Ivomec 1% for cattle and swine?

http://www.amazon.com/Ivomec-Ivermectin ... m_indust_6

And are these syringes ok?...1cc syringe?...looks like they go up to 10cc

http://www.amazon.com/Syringe-Luer-Slip ... y_hi_img_y

Are these 2 things all I need?...

And if I am correct, if I have a 50lb dog, I would use 5cc of Ivomec and squirt it in their mouths?

And how often do you dose your dog with Ivomec?...one of my dogs has been on heartworm preventive since Ive had him as a puppy. But my other 4yr old dog has never been on a preventive.

And what all does Ivomec prevent?...worms and ticks?

Sorry again about this thread. Im just cautious with this and dont want to harm my 2 dogs.

deseeker · Post by **deseeker** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:38 pm

It is the right ivomec, but too big a syringe---you need a 1cc syringe. You give 1/10 of a cc per 10 pounds of body weight. At this doseage it is good for heartworm and the internal worms (except tape worms). Doesn't work on ticks. You should be able to get this ivomec at a tractor supply or Bomgaars for around $40. Unless you have at least 4 dogs to give it to every month, it will probable expire before you use it all up. It works out about 40 cents a dose on my brittany size dogs(got 5 of them). If you haven't had your dogs on preventative you need to have a vet check for heartworm before you start. DO NOT USE ON COLLIE TYPE DOGS--it could kill them

For your 50 pound dog you would give 1/2 cc (.5 cc). If you have fewer than 4 dogs go with the paste---someone else that uses that can give you the dosage.

Edit---it goes in their mouth--I usually put it on a small piece of bread and they eat it. Make sure they eat it all or they aren't protected. Treat once a month.

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:59 pm

I would go with the paste for one dog too but only Durvet Apple Plain Invermectin. It is about $3.

That particular paste is metered for 50lbs of horse weight, whereas others I have seen are metered for 250lbs of horse weight.

One dial or click is about 6K micrograms, which is pretty much what you would give of the liquid at 1/10th CC per 10lbs of body weight for your dog.

Its more than you need for heartworms but certainly not even close to a high dose.

Once a month. And I agree about the syringe, you need a much more precise syringe for the liquid.

Brittguy · Post by **Brittguy** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:11 pm

1% Ivomec 1/10 per 10 lbs that would be about 1/2 cc for your dog. I use pour on type not injectable, but give it to your dog on food or squirt into mouth

Deuce · Post by **Deuce** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:20 pm

Monster - do you have link to the paste that is measured on 50lb doses! The only one I can find is 250. Thanks!

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:44 pm

http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/wcs ... _vc=-10005

It is available all over. The amount that comes out for with one metered click is like a small pea or large lentil.

Deuce · Post by **Deuce** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:00 pm

Thank you for posting that. Much less expensive than what we've been using.

jahwarrior1423 · Post by **jahwarrior1423** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:23 pm

Is the link I posted not the pour on type?...which syringe would be best?...

I do need to get my 4yr old tested for heartworm before hand...

And you guys prefer the paste over liquid since I only have 2 dogs? Does it come out to be cheaper?...I thought I read somewhere that I had to dilute the paste?...maybe I'm over thinking it

deseeker · Post by **deseeker** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:50 pm

jahwarrior1423 wrote:..which syringe would be best?...

Just go to a pharmacy and ask them for a 1 cc syringe that is metered in 1/10 cc---it's diameter is a little smaller than a pencil. The reason I mentioned getting the paste is because you have only 2 dogs. Each 50 pound dog will only get 1/2 cc(.5cc) per month. that means you will only be useing 1cc total a month. Your 50ml bottle is a 50 month(over 4 year) supply for your 2 dogs--the expiration date is on the box usually around 2 years---you'd be throwing away about 1/2 the bottle when it expires. The box you had pictured in the orignal post is injected in cattle, but to use it on dogs it is swallowed NOT INJECTED.
You might want to PM EZZY or K9 to get the exact doseage for the paste. Which ever you use will be alot cheaper than $6-$7 a month heart worm pill.

jahwarrior1423 · Post by **jahwarrior1423** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:15 pm

ok, so 1 click of the paste equals .5cc?...that would be easy if your dog weighs 50lbs. How many clicks would it be if your dog weighs 60-75lbs?..is there a paste that I should buy over any others that is easy to use?

I just figured the liquid would be easier to measure since I could use a syringe. But like you mentioned, I would be throwing away half the bottle since I own only 2 dogs.

This is beginning to make more sense. I just need to get my 4yr old mutt to get tested and make sure he is eligible to be on this Ivomec without getting harmed.

jahwarrior1423 · Post by **jahwarrior1423** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:20 pm

Ive been coming across conflicting things...

Read more: http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread. ... z2Mb2vROfd"

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:10 pm

I think if you read a little more you may hange your mind about overdosing. So before you tell everyone that we are I want people to be aware and knowledgeable. Yes we are giving more than necessary for heartworm control but not for several other purposes that we also are trying to control. Things like mites and other worms that dogs get, mange that is caused by those mites is a problem that Ivomec controls at much higher doses than needed for heart worm. So before we alarm people about something we have been doing for a couple of decades and lead them to believe we are doing something wrong we need to research not just one thing but what we are doing overall.

I will not even comment on your statement that the paste shouldn't be used since we know it works and works well and again has for several years. I will find fault with the comment about it not being a homogenous material so you can't tell how much you are getting. If that were true, how would you know how much was in a tube and how much shoud be used? And how in the world do you think you would get that by the FDA or any other regulating body that runs Lab tests on any labeled product being sold?

Don't use it if you have a problem understanding what you are doing but it works and is much cheaper for most of us.

Ezzy

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:16 pm

Jah first you come on here asking advice on Ivomec & now your giving advice on it.You became an expert almost over night. :roll:

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:00 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:Jah first you come on here asking advice on Ivomec & now your giving advice on it.You became an expert almost over night. :roll:

Only the first line in his last post was his. Everything else was copied from another forum.

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:30 pm

jahwarrior1423 wrote:ok, so 1 click of the paste equals .5cc?...that would be easy if your dog weighs 50lbs. How many clicks would it be if your dog weighs 60-75lbs?..is there a paste that I should buy over any others that is easy to use?

I just figured the liquid would be easier to measure since I could use a syringe. But like you mentioned, I would be throwing away half the bottle since I own only 2 dogs.

This is beginning to make more sense. I just need to get my 4yr old mutt to get tested and make sure he is eligible to be on this Ivomec without getting harmed.

One click of the Durvet Apple Paste is between .5cc - .6cc liquid equivalent, but not more than .6cc.

People just use once click for dogs above 50lbs once a month. This is a small dose compared to what the vet would give you for mange, which is once a day for several weeks.

As for the comment in that thread about the distribution of the Ivermectin, that is just a foolish comment. One, because I asked and the technician laughed at me and said "if we didn't mix it first, how could we make it?" and Two, think about it, the vial of paste is for up to 1,250lb of horse weight, not just one horse. If it were just for one 1,250lb horse it would say "Caution: Use the entire vial on just one 1,250lb horse because the product isn't mixed". And why would they make the dose adjustable if it was intended to be used on just one animal of 1,250lbs? I don't recall seeing a different product for ponies. I know people that use the apple stuff on mini-donkeys and adjust the vial for the weights of each animal. Clearly you couldn't mass produced a product and put it in the dispenser without mixing it, right?

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:18 pm

MonsterDad wrote:
jahwarrior1423 wrote:ok, so 1 click of the paste equals .5cc?...that would be easy if your dog weighs 50lbs. How many clicks would it be if your dog weighs 60-75lbs?..is there a paste that I should buy over any others that is easy to use?

I just figured the liquid would be easier to measure since I could use a syringe. But like you mentioned, I would be throwing away half the bottle since I own only 2 dogs.

This is beginning to make more sense. I just need to get my 4yr old mutt to get tested and make sure he is eligible to be on this Ivomec without getting harmed.
One click of the Durvet Apple Paste is between .5cc - .6cc liquid equivalent, but not more than .6cc.

People just use once click for dogs above 50lbs once a month. This is a small dose compared to what the vet would give you for mange, which is once a day for several weeks.

As for the comment in that thread about the distribution of the Ivermectin, that is just a foolish comment. One, because I asked and the technician laughed at me and said "if we didn't mix it first, how could we make it?" and Two, think about it, the vial of paste is for up to 1,250lb of horse weight, not just one horse. If it were just for one 1,250lb horse it would say "Caution: Use the entire vial on just one 1,250lb horse because the product isn't mixed". And why would they make the dose adjustable if it was intended to be used on just one animal of 1,250lbs? I don't recall seeing a different product for ponies. I know people that use the apple stuff on mini-donkeys and adjust the vial for the weights of each animal. Clearly you couldn't mass produced a product and put it in the dispenser without mixing it, right?

This what I have been trying to explain to people. Have no idea where someof these things that don't even make sense get started.

Ezzy

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:42 pm

My vet wrote out a dosage for me to use with the cattle/swine Ivomec - she figured it out and did the math for me - even though it's not a prescription. It amounts to about half of what I was giving - which was the 1/10 of a cc for every 10lbs. I used to give the Chessie (100 lbs) a full CC. Now she gets about 0.4 cc. That amount, in her opinion, was enough to prevent HW's and handle other parasites.

jahwarrior1423 · Post by **jahwarrior1423** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:15 pm

Again, I'm sorry. Just rather be cautious before I jump on an idea.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:25 pm

Warrior, no need for you to apologize when it comes to your dogs health. Ivermectin is a nuerotoxin so I choose to use only the amount needed to control one thing and that's heartworms. There are other,much less toxic things that can be used to control other parasites and they aren't nuerotoxins. You actually can save even more money by targeting parasites individually rather than trying to use one to prevent everything. The bottom line is that you have to make your best decision for YOUR dog. Notice how nobody posting on here is a Vet?

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:15 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:Warrior, no need for you to apologize when it comes to your dogs health. Ivermectin is a nuerotoxin so I choose to use only the amount needed to control one thing and that's heartworms. There are other,much less toxic things that can be used to control other parasites and they aren't nuerotoxins. You actually can save even more money by targeting parasites individually rather than trying to use one to prevent everything. The bottom line is that you have to make your best decision for YOUR dog. Notice how nobody posting on here is a Vet?

The toxicity levels seem to be pretty well established. What is being talked about here in terms of dosage is very small. What is considered the low range for toxicity for non-collie/herding dogs is 15 times the one click on the horse paste for a 60lb dog. The high range is completely absurd, with beagles not showing any symptoms until 160 times the dose we are talking about. So to put in perspective, at the low end, you would have to give 60% of the whole horse paste tube in one shot to see any signs of toxicity, for a 60lb dog.

We all have talked to Vets about this and don't take it lightly. Maybe its not for everyone but it seems any capable person can figure this out.

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:59 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:Warrior, no need for you to apologize when it comes to your dogs health. Ivermectin is a nuerotoxin so I choose to use only the amount needed to control one thing and that's heartworms. There are other,much less toxic things that can be used to control other parasites and they aren't nuerotoxins. You actually can save even more money by targeting parasites individually rather than trying to use one to prevent everything. The bottom line is that you have to make your best decision for YOUR dog. Notice how nobody posting on here is a Vet?

You do realize a vet can't legally post on this subject because it is off label. As far as the toxicity, Ivomec is one of the safest things you could possibly use and it works on all animals from my pigeons to the dogs, pigs, cattle sheep and horses with out any real side effects. As far as cheap , it isn't but cheap compared to the prepared products being sold. Not sure how you think you can get any cheaper since it isn't going to cost you a single cent more to use it for everything if you only have a few dogs. I even give it to my neighbors since they only have the one small dog and it just is such a waste to buy a botle for onr dog.

Ezzy

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:14 pm

Yes I realize that Vets won't post because of the label. My point was simply that the OP shouldn't have to apologize for his questions concerning his pets health. That's all, nothing more. As for expense? Well, if I use just enough IvermecticTin (actualy Trivermectin Gold since it treats Tapes) and I only treat for the other parasites as needed using Safeguard, I wouldn't be using as much Ivermectin. The bottom line is that we all have our own methods when it comes to the care of our animals so why would anyone force their opinion on any matter? I gave my opinion and am ready to move on and LEARN.

gotpointers · Post by **gotpointers** » Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:21 am

Brittguy wrote:1% Ivomec 1/10 per 10 lbs that would be about 1/2 cc for your dog. I use pour on type not injectable, but give it to your dog on food or squirt into mouth

I'm pretty sure they are not the same amount of active ingredient per cc. The pour on is diluted much more. And that is the correct formula for injectable.

gotpointers · Post by **gotpointers** » Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:26 am

Just a word of caution for everyone else. Never give more than .60 of a cc no matter how heavy your dog is.

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:53 pm

Ezzy asked about how foolish information gets around:

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/he ... ectin.aspx

A vet that sells herbal remedies scaring people about Ivermectin. She avoids the fact that a 60 dog would have to ingest well over 200 Heartguard tablets but uses the phrase "Use Extreme Caution" with Ivermectin.

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:15 pm

I don't know of a product that is as safe to use as Ivomec and part of that is because of the extreme latitude of doses woithout any adverse or side effects for most dogs plus other animals.

Ezzy

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:59 am

I'm not sure how many are aware the Ivermectin is also used for treatment in humans for several things.

Adamdirk · Post by **Adamdirk** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:12 pm

if I would switch to the Ivomec, what can I use to prevent tapeworms?

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:11 pm

I haven't had a tapeworm problem in years so I don't know what all is available now but there are several if you check out the labels at the store. Someone here will tell you I am sure.\

Ezzy

cjuve · Post by **cjuve** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:11 pm

gotpointers wrote:Just a word of caution for everyone else. Never give more than .60 of a cc no matter how heavy your dog is.

The daily dose to kill mites is higher than this so what is the reasoning behind your statement?

duckn66 · Post by **duckn66** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:25 pm

cjuve wrote:
gotpointers wrote:Just a word of caution for everyone else. Never give more than .60 of a cc no matter how heavy your dog is.
The daily dose to kill mites is higher than this so what is the reasoning behind your statement?

That depends on how heavy your dog is. I just finished up a 60 day treatment for mites in 2 pups. 37lbs each started at half of that. Finished up at .60cc

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:25 pm

Adamdirk wrote:if I would switch to the Ivomec, what can I use to prevent tapeworms?

Tapes are transmitted by fleas - if you are flea free, then you can prevent tapes. If your dog gets fleas then you can treat tapeworms to get rid of them. There is not a specific preventative for them that I know of.

jahwarrior1423 · Post by **jahwarrior1423** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:03 pm

Ok, final questions...

I had my 4yr old mix breed pup tested for Heartworm at the Banfield Pet Vet and he came up negative.

But my question is, he is a mixed breed and I would suspect he has some type of herding dog in him. Possibly german shepard, or maybe Beauceron...but How would I find out if it is safe to give him Ivermectin?...Banfield wanted to sell me their brand heartworm preventative (WormShield). Or is Ivermectin only bad for collie breeds?

Second question, its much cheaper to use the paste for my 2 dogs. Durvet apple paste seems to be easier from what you guys have said. I had my 4yr old dog weighed and he weighed 90lbs and I believe my 1.5yr old GSP weighs around 55-65lbs. Would I do 2 clicks for my 4yr old and 1 click for my GSP?...And do I need to dilute the paste of just put it on a treat?

What is the best way to store the paste and how long until they typically expire?

Ive recently moved into the city and apparently it is a struggle to buy syringes here. Was told my 3 pharmacist that is illegal to sell syringes with needles without a prescription. Weird. But I found a "feed store" that does sell the paste but they were expired...but they said they'll get more in for me.

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:21 am

jahwarrior1423 wrote:Ok, final questions...

I had my 4yr old mix breed pup tested for Heartworm at the Banfield Pet Vet and he came up negative.

But my question is, he is a mixed breed and I would suspect he has some type of herding dog in him. Possibly german shepard, or maybe Beauceron...but How would I find out if it is safe to give him Ivermectin?...Banfield wanted to sell me their brand heartworm preventative (WormShield). Or is Ivermectin only bad for collie breeds?

Second question, its much cheaper to use the paste for my 2 dogs. Durvet apple paste seems to be easier from what you guys have said. I had my 4yr old dog weighed and he weighed 90lbs and I believe my 1.5yr old GSP weighs around 55-65lbs. Would I do 2 clicks for my 4yr old and 1 click for my GSP?...And do I need to dilute the paste of just put it on a treat?

What is the best way to store the paste and how long until they typically expire?

Ive recently moved into the city and apparently it is a struggle to buy syringes here. Was told my 3 pharmacist that is illegal to sell syringes with needles without a prescription. Weird. But I found a "feed store" that does sell the paste but they were expired...but they said they'll get more in for me.

For heartworms I would use just one click. If you were using Heartguard you would use the same dosage as well.

There is a test for MDR1. Check the Collie Club website.

Jagerdawg · Post by **Jagerdawg** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:08 am

You don't need a needle syringe you need a dosing syringe my vet gave me 3

jahwarrior1423 · Post by **jahwarrior1423** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:28 pm

Well, I called Banfield today to question my concerns about Ivermectin with my mixed dog. They said they have never heard nor believe there is a risk for collies or herding dogs in general. I actually called 2 Banfields and one of the vets wants me to print off the info I have seen and the other said that she has been in the business for 25yrs and believes there is no risk. The first Banfield said their Ivermectin is safe for all dogs and that the Ivermectin I am going to buy is for Cattle not dogs.

My concern was them trying to sell me Ivermectin without notifying me the risk it could cause with my mixed breed dog.

deseeker · Post by **deseeker** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:57 pm

Google the words--- collies and ivermectin All kinds of articles and studies come up.
http://www.awca.net/drug.htm

shags · Post by **shags** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:06 am

jahwarrior1423 wrote:Well, I called Banfield today to question my concerns about Ivermectin with my mixed dog. They said they have never heard nor believe there is a risk for collies or herding dogs in general. I actually called 2 Banfields and one of the vets wants me to print off the info I have seen and the other said that she has been in the business for 25yrs and believes there is no risk. The first Banfield said their Ivermectin is safe for all dogs and that the Ivermectin I am going to buy is for Cattle not dogs.

My concern was them trying to sell me Ivermectin without notifying me the risk it could cause with my mixed breed dog.

I think the confusion lies in the fact that the dose of ivermectin in the HW tablets from the vet is very very small, so small that it doesn't pose a threat to even herding breeds. It's comparable to a few drops of the bottled ivermectin. When you dose 1/10 cc per 10# body weight, you're giving the dog enough to take care of HW and intestinal parasites. That's many times the amount that takes care of HW. This dose might be too much for the herding type dogs.

ddoyle · Post by **ddoyle** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:54 am

Don't mean to steal post! What is the sign of over dosing? How long do effects last?

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:20 am

ther

ddoyle wrote:Don't mean to steal post! What is the sign of over dosing? How long do effects last?

There are all kinds, blindness, wobbliness, lethargy, etc. Check the Merck Vet Manual.