Bad gas!!

[WillieELk78GSP]

I have a 1 y/o GSP that has terrible gas, I feed her 3 cups a day of canidae all stage dog food. Have any of you had any experience with this food or is it just a bad all around food. It got recommended to me but another Guy that has a GSP. Anything will help. The dog seems to enjoy it but like I said bad gas. Should I switch foods again?
Thanks
Will

[moese]

I feed Native to my year old shorthair and she's got some potent gas bombs as well. My 7 yo eats the same food and I can't recall the last time she's cleared a room.

I guess I've just chalked it up to individual differences in the dog vs food.

[nanney1]

I think it is a good food, but you never know how your dog may tolerate one or more of the ingredients. Just try something else that's different and see. Pro Plan, Eukanuba, etc... are different. Or just go to your local feed store and ask what the best seller is for people who have multiple bird dogs, coon dogs, strings of beagles, etc....

Or, maybe just feed a little less of the Canidae.

[Doc E]

First thing to try would be probiotics in the form of a quality yogurt (Nancy's or Mountain High are good ones).
2 large Tablespoons per meal for a week. Then two large tablespoons a couple times a week.

.

[jwnissen]

I feed eukanuba premium performance and am really happy with that. I would go with Doc E and feed yogurt or if you dont want to mess with that, change foods.

Johh

[ezzy333]

I think it is a good food, but you never know how your dog may tolerate one or more of the ingredients. Just try something else that's different and see. Pro Plan, Eukanuba, etc... are different. Or just go to your local feed store and ask what the best seller is for people who have multiple bird dogs, coon dogs, strings of beagles, etc....

Or, maybe just feed a little less of the Canidae.

Any time you experience gas problems cut back the feed and it will usually solve it. Normally it just takes a small adjustment but I have found the easiest way is cut 1/3 to 1/2 and then in a day or two start moving it up very slowly. There have been times when I could work up to the same amount we had been feeding but usually it settles out at a little less. I have never found it necessary to change feeds but it could happen.

Way more often than not it is just a matter of over-feeding.

Ezzy

[KwikIrish]

A Beano or two a day worked wonders for our dobe.

[MonsterDad]

Use a food with chicory and beet pulp, that is best way to support your dog's natural flora.

The bacteria cultures in yogurt aren't present in high enough numbers and the strains will never make it through the stomach anyway.

[rinker]

I am sorry, I don't know how to help you with your dog. I read this because I was afraid it was about me.

[AZ Brittany Guy]

I am sorry, I don't know how to help you with your dog. I read this because I was afraid it was about me.

Does your wife post here

[Doc E]

1. Use a food with chicory and beet pulp, that is best way to support your dog's natural flora.

2. The bacteria cultures in yogurt aren't present in high enough numbers and the strains will never make it through the stomach anyway.

1. Actually the best is pure canned pumpkin
2. Incorrect

I had my dogs on Nancy's brand yogurt for a month (with canned pumpkin). Took in a stool sample and there were plenty of beneficial bacteria -- alive, kickin' and reproducing.
.

[shags]

Where'd you take the fecal?

And how did you ascertain that the beneficial bacteria were not present regardless of the yogurt?

[Doc E]

Where'd you take the fecal?

And how did you ascertain that the beneficial bacteria were not present regardless of the yogurt?

Took it to my Vet (he has a great lab)

Because I had the fecal exams done before.

.

[ezzy333]

Where'd you take the fecal?

And how did you ascertain that the beneficial bacteria were not present regardless of the yogurt?

You beat me to this one. Talk about a test with no controls. Absolutely impossible to tell anything useful from this. Like to know how it was determined canned pumpkin is better than beet pulp or chicory in what way and for what? I doubt if there is a dog that is alive that doesn't expel good bacteria and absolutely no way to tell where they came from.

Ezzy

[Doc E]

Survivability of a probiotic Lactobacillus casei in the gastrointestinal tract and its impact on the faecal microfloraK.M. Tuohy, M. Pinart-Gilberga, M. Jones, L. Hoyles, A.L. McCartney, G.R. GibsonIn
In this study, the ability of Lactobacilli to survive passage through the gastrointestinal tract was confirmed. A stable and relatively high population of Lact. casei (between 6·7 and 7·1 Log10 CFU g−1 faeces) was maintained during the period of YFMD ingestion. Although the gut microflora is dominated by bacterial groups with much higher population levels, lactobacilli are typically found in the range 105–108 CFU g−1 faeces (Kimura et al. 1997; Holzapfel et al. 1998). This present study confirms previous reports on the survivability of this probiotic strain present in the retail product (Spandhaak et al. 1998). Moreover, several still maintained Lact. casei Shirota even 1 week after the cessation of YFMD ingestion. This implies that Lact. casei Shirota may multiply in the GI tract for a certain period.

A significant increase in the number of lactobacilli was observed using the FISH technique. Numbers of lactobacilli increased from a pretreatment level of 8·4 Log10 cells g−1 faeces to 8·8 Log10 cells g−1 faeces on days 14 and 21 (P = 0·001 and 0·014 respectively) in volunteers consuming YFMD. This increase in lactobacilli is likely to be due to the Lact. casei Shirota. However, it is possible that indigenous lactobacilli also increased with YFMD consumption since the observed increase in lactobacilli as determined by FISH was slightly higher than viable counts of Lact. casei Shirota recovered from the faeces of the YFMD fed.

As with the other groups of bacteria enumerated, numbers of bifidobacteria fluctuated in both groups over the course of the trial. A significant reduction in bifidobacterial numbers was observed upon cessation of YFMD feeding as determined by FISH. Overall, it may be suggested that bifidobacteria may increase during the YFMD consumption period compared with nonconsumption period. However, similar changes in numbers of bifidobacteria were observed in the placebo group. YFMD consumption had little or no effect on numbers of total bacteria, Bacteroides spp., Eubacterium recale–C. histolyticum subgroup, Atopobium rimae–Collinsella–Eggerthella lenta subgroup, and C. perfringens/histolyticum subgroup or E. coli.

In conclusion, we have shown that Lact. casei Shirota survives passage through the gastrointestinal tract and that consumption of YFMD twice a day, is sufficient to maintain the probiotic strain at a physiologically significant level. Indeed, in one volunteer Lact. casei Shirota survived while passing through the gut at a high population level for at least 7 days after cessation of YFMD consumption. Similar observations have been made previously with other probiotic strains (Johansson et al. 1993; Tannock et al. 2000). The ability of probiotic strains to colonise the gastrointestinal tract or at least be maintained for prolonged periods of time may have implications for an enhanced probiotic function in certain individuals. However, little is known about the factors governing the colonization ability of probiotic strains in different individuals. Species specific attachment to the colonic mucosa may play some role in determining the varying persistence of a probiotic in different human hosts (Alander et al. 1999). The lack of impact of Lact. casei Shirota consumption on gross bacterial numbers in faeces, as determined using group specific 16S rRNA gene FISH probes may belie more subtle interactions between the microflora of individual volunteers and the probiotic strain in vivo. The species composition of the lactic acid and bifidobacterial microflora of individual volunteers may impact on the ability of the probiotic strain to persist for an extended time after cessation of YFMD consumption. Such interactions may also play a role in the level of Lact. casei Shirota survivability within individuals.

.

[ezzy333]

However, little is known about the factors governing the colonization ability of probiotic strains in different individuals. Species specific attachment to the colonic mucosa may play some role in determining the varying persistence of a probiotic in different human hosts (Alander et al. 1999). The lack of impact of Lact. casei Shirota consumption on gross bacterial numbers in faeces, as determined using group specific 16S rRNA gene FISH probes may belie more subtle interactions between the microflora of individual volunteers and the probiotic strain in vivo. The species composition of the lactic acid and bifidobacterial microflora of individual volunteers may impact on the ability of the probiotic strain to persist for an extended time after cessation of YFMD consumption. Such interactions may also play a role in the level of Lact. casei Shirota survivability within individuals.

Believe this points out what Shags and I thought. They still aren't sure of anything, hence, the word may through out this article with the mis-spelled words.

Ezzy

[Doc E]

Believe this points out what Shags and I thought. They still aren't sure of anything, hence, the word may through out this article with the mis-spelled words.

Ezzy

Are you Mr. Pot or Mr. Kettle?
Throughout is one word as is mispelled. You don't feel now at all do you

.

[MonsterDad]

The "study" posted above by Doc E is on people not dogs. There have been several studies on dogs and if native dog strains of certain bacteria are delivered there is some colonizing. Some, using native dog strains, not feeding yogurt.

The biggest obstacle to using the strains commonly used to ferment milk products is that the dog stomach acid is much stronger than humans and basically they get digested and never make it into the intestines.

There is nothing wrong with using pumpkin when a dog is ill but it makes no sense for daily use. You can't always buy it and even a teaspoon or two will increase the total fiber of the diet quite substantially.

Probiotic supplements have been shown in the past to not be effective or even be what the label says.

[Doc E]

While it's true that the stomach acid in wild canids and dogs fed a raw meat diet is very strong (pH of 1.0 to 2.0), the pH in dogs fed a high carbohydrate diet (kibble) can be as high as 4.0 to 6.0.

You say that, "dog stomach acid is much stronger than humans". The average in humans is a pH of 1.35 to 3.5.

You aslo say, "There have been several studies on dogs and if native dog strains of certain bacteria are delivered there is some colonizing. Some, using native dog strains, not feeding yogurt".

I'd much appreciate links to a few of those studies. Thanks.

The two main beneficial bacteria for dogs are Lactobacillus acidophilus and Enterococcus faecium (previously known as Streptococcus faecium) L. acidophilus is found as the primary beneficial bacteria in virtually all yogurts.
Probiotics live and function in the large intestine. For a probiotic to be effective, it needs to survive the very acidic environment of the stomach and small intestine so it can reach and colonize the large intestine. One of the ways to ensure enough probiotic reaches the large intestine is to start with a very high concentration of live probiotic bacteria. As the high quantity of bacteria passes through the GI tract, some will die but the majority will survive. In order to ensure that the probiotic is effective, the dog needs to consume millions or billions of viable bacteria. The number of live bacteria is measured as the number of colony-forming units (CFU) per gram of probiotic. When looking to purchase a probiotic, look for a product that has millions or billions of CFU per gram. You may see this reported in scientific notation. For example, one million probiotic bacteria may be reported as 1 x 106 CFU and 1 billion may be reported as 1 x 109 CFU.

.

[Doc E]

In taking a quick look at research articles this morning, I can find dozens of articles showing the benefit of giving dogs yogurt and only one that says it can be harmful --- the reason it can be harmful is due to the high amount of sugar found in many yogurts.
That's why I only recommend unflavored and unsweetened yogurt.

.

[MonsterDad]

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ind ... they-work/

#3

"Commensual organisms that already live in the gut, and which presumably share a history of mutual adaptation with the host, seem more likely to be beneficial in restoring a disturbed GI ecology. Previous research had been done to show this strain was able to survive passage through the stomach acid and colonize the intestine of the dog as well as to survive the processing and storage conditions used to create a product that can be shipped, stored, and given to patients. This groundwork greatly increases the plausibility of the intervention."

This is a fancy way of saying a non-native strain will either be digested or overwhelmed by bacteria that are naturally present. And that makes sense that the dog would mount an attack on bacteria it does not know. Beet pulp for example is novel in that it feeds the "good" bacteria at the expense of the "bad". Also by the way, the bitches' milk is the way pups get their first dose of lactic bacteria, so it does make perfect sense that those strains are adapted to the animal.

Dogs love yogurt, especially goat milk, but it is food not medicine.

[rinker]

Where else could you read a debate about dog farts?

[big steve46]

Broad-spectrum digestive enzymes would be my first choice, and secondly changing feed. If the food is digested better, the flora will take care of itself, but adding yogurt would be a plus.

[WillieELk78GSP]

Where else could you read a debate about dog farts?

Hahaha that's great. When I posted I didn't think this was a debate worthy topic!!! Kind of enjoying it. Great info from everyone thanks

[roaniecowpony]

Where else could you read a debate about dog farts?

For the record on dog poo...I've been buying the Purina Forta Flora. I've used it in conjunction with antibiotics and for treating any other loose bowel movement in my dogs. It seems to promote healthy bowel movements in those cases. No way I know of for me to tell it works better or worse than doing nothing. I'm hoping that Purina has more resources available than the naysayer members of this forum and is honest about the advertised benefits. Which is more gullible: believe Purina advertising or someone I don't know on an internet forum?

[shags]

Follow the money.