Traditional Grain-Based Foods vs. Grain-Free Foods - Vote

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:52 am

Curious how many people have moved to grain-free foods for either health or other issues. Be interesting to know why.

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:13 am

The feed I use has grain in it but meat meal is the first ingredient listed, so you have not provided me an option to vote.

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:23 am

AZ Brittany Guy wrote:The feed I use has grain in it but meat meal is the first ingredient listed, so you have not provided me an option to vote.

Yes vote grain then. The question has nothing to do with protein content, as there are many foods with grains that are higher in protein than some grain-free foods.

The reason why I am asking is that retriever people (labs, goldens etc) seem to use more grain-free foods due to problems with ear infections, with very good results.

Don't be afraid of the moderating process (hint, hint), it is not intended to be a which is better thread.

Winglish · Post by **Winglish** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:19 pm

I put my female on grain-free food throughout her pregnancy and until the pups went home. The reason I chose to do this was so that pup buyers could make up their own mind about whether or not to feed grains to their pup. I personally do feed a food with grains and my dogs do great on it.

northUpland · Post by **northUpland** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:46 pm

I don't want to jump this thread out of respect, but to me this is sort of a skewed question. What do you consider "traditional grain based foods?" What I mean is, there are excellent performance foods that also(and should) incorporate highly digestable grain sources i.e brown rice, flax seed, etc, in their formulas. By "traditional" do you reference only those formula's containing corn, wheat, soy, etc? Great general nutrition question but maybe just drill it down a bit. Thanks!

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:30 pm

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:32 pm

northUpland wrote:I don't want to jump this thread out of respect, but to me this is sort of a skewed question. What do you consider "traditional grain based foods?" What I mean is, there are excellent performance foods that also(and should) incorporate highly digestable grain sources i.e brown rice, flax seed, etc, in their formulas. By "traditional" do you reference only those formula's containing corn, wheat, soy, etc? Great general nutrition question but maybe just drill it down a bit. Thanks!

You make a point, the word "based" and "traditional" should not have been used.

Change of subject then, Grain-Inclusive vs. Grain-Free Foods, no bias intended.

Maybe the mod's can change it in the areas the posters do not have access to.

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:16 pm

MonsterDad wrote:
northUpland wrote:I don't want to jump this thread out of respect, but to me this is sort of a skewed question. What do you consider "traditional grain based foods?" What I mean is, there are excellent performance foods that also(and should) incorporate highly digestable grain sources i.e brown rice, flax seed, etc, in their formulas. By "traditional" do you reference only those formula's containing corn, wheat, soy, etc? Great general nutrition question but maybe just drill it down a bit. Thanks!
You make a point, the word "based" and "traditional" should not have been used.

Change of subject then, Grain-Inclusive vs. Grain-Free Foods, no bias intended.

Maybe the mod's can change it in the areas the posters do not have access to.

That was my point but I felt it was not important.

Del Lolo · Post by **Del Lolo** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:56 pm

You left out Option #3 : Depends on the dog

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:50 pm

MonsterDad wrote:
AZ Brittany Guy wrote:The feed I use has grain in it but meat meal is the first ingredient listed, so you have not provided me an option to vote.

Yes vote grain then. The question has nothing to do with protein content, as there are many foods with grains that are higher in protein than some grain-free foods.

The reason why I am asking is that retriever people (labs, goldens etc) seem to use more grain-free foods due to problems with ear infections, with very good results.

Don't be afraid of the moderating process (hint, hint), it is not intended to be a which is better thread.

If you go on the Retriever Forum which has about 2800 active members with a couple hundred active posters you will find about a handful people who buy into this. I believe that you will find the there is a lesser number of Retriever folks feeding grain free food then probably any other segment in the dog community.

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:39 pm

nikegundog wrote:
MonsterDad wrote:
AZ Brittany Guy wrote:The feed I use has grain in it but meat meal is the first ingredient listed, so you have not provided me an option to vote.

Yes vote grain then. The question has nothing to do with protein content, as there are many foods with grains that are higher in protein than some grain-free foods.

The reason why I am asking is that retriever people (labs, goldens etc) seem to use more grain-free foods due to problems with ear infections, with very good results.

Don't be afraid of the moderating process (hint, hint), it is not intended to be a which is better thread.
If you go on the Retriever Forum which has about 2800 active members with a couple hundred active posters you will find about a handful people who buy into this. I believe that you will find the there is a lesser number of Retriever folks feeding grain free food then probably any other segment in the dog community.

Grain free is pretty much relegated to the single house dog crowd. Outside working dogs have always used a good balanced diet made up of both animal and vegetable sources. And I would strongly expect that to continue.

Ezzy

Grange · Post by **Grange** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:12 pm

I have a lab and feed food with grain. I also have an english setter and feed food with grain. My lab has ("knock on wood') never had issues with ear infections.

Fran Seagren · Post by **Fran Seagren** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:42 pm

I know of two pro trainers that feed only grain free dry food. One guy has, on average, anywhere from 10 - 25 dogs he's got in for training - mostly pointing dogs. The other trainer has about 8-10 on average - all labs. I have 6 dogs(pointy guys and labs) that are house pets, hunting dogs and hunt test/trial dogs and I feed grain free dry food.

This discussion always seems to get "angry" and I hope it doesn't go that way, again. It's great to hear what works for other people without getting into who is "right."

I feed grain free for a couple reasons. Some of my dogs get runny poop from foods with grain. Two of them get ear problems. All of that goes away with grain free. One of the trainers I know says she feeds grain free for the same reasons I do. I'll have to ask the other pro when I see him sometime next week.

roaniecowpony · Post by **roaniecowpony** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:45 am

Both my dogs are single house dogs.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:01 am

roaniecowpony wrote:Both my dogs are single house dogs.

I hear ya, I have 7 single house dogs. ( soon to be 10) Although I cant call them "grain free" since they do get left overs.

Sometimes I have to wonder where he comes up with the stuff that he does.

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:25 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
roaniecowpony wrote:Both my dogs are single house dogs.
I hear ya, I have 7 single house dogs. ( soon to be 10) Although I cant call them "grain free" since they do get left overs.

Sometimes I have to wonder where he comes up with the stuff that he does.

I thought he meant that they all slept in one dog house.

Well not that many votes, but I expected far fewer grain free votes.

marysburg · Post by **marysburg** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:39 am

I switched to grain free due to two itchy dogs with recurrent ear infections. One is a Lab, the other is a Britt, the remaining two Britts can eat any performance level dry food and do fine. All itchiness and ear trouble is gone. I assume it is an allergy issue, but I'm not a doctor. I guess it depends on the dog.

Post by **slistoe** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:56 pm

MonsterDad wrote:
The reason why I am asking is that retriever people (labs, goldens etc) seem to use more grain-free foods due to problems with ear infections, with very good results.

I guess all the retriever folks around here didn't get the memo.

Post by **slistoe** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:01 pm

MonsterDad wrote:
Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
roaniecowpony wrote:Both my dogs are single house dogs.
I hear ya, I have 7 single house dogs. ( soon to be 10) Although I cant call them "grain free" since they do get left overs.

Sometimes I have to wonder where he comes up with the stuff that he does.
I thought he meant that they all slept in one dog house.

Well not that many votes, but I expected far fewer grain free votes.

Check out the number of views, divide by 2/3 to account for repeat views, subtract the number of "votes" and the rest of the people are in the "who gives a rats patooie" category. I would bet dollars to donuts that 99% of the "who gives a ...." category feed something with grain in it.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:30 am

MonsterDad wrote:
Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
roaniecowpony wrote:Both my dogs are single house dogs.
I hear ya, I have 7 single house dogs. ( soon to be 10) Although I cant call them "grain free" since they do get left overs.

Sometimes I have to wonder where he comes up with the stuff that he does.
I thought he meant that they all slept in one dog house.

Well not that many votes, but I expected far fewer grain free votes.

I had no problem understanding what was being said here. He is simply saying that the majority of people feeding expensive grain free food have one or two dogs and they are usually house dogs and not outside working dogs. And I believe if an accurate survey was taken nation wide, we would find that to be exactly correct. I am not knocking what anybody feeds, just saying.....

Charlie

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:14 am

Charlie, and that would be the same for foods with grains, the vast majority of users would be households with 1- 3 pets. It is irrelevant. The point of this was to see how many people switched because of chronic health issues like ear infections, etc. Not to start suggesting that people that use GF foods are uppity or inexperienced. Does having 1 - 2 vs 10 dogs make a person less knowledgeable or experienced? Having 1 -2 dogs does make it easier to upgrade certain things but it doesn't mean anything else and it certainly isn't a reflection of expertise.

His comment was clearly to suggest that the users of GF foods were less experienced and naive dog owners.

For some, using the better products saves quite a bit of money. Who wants to drop $100 every time a dog gets an ear infection?

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:24 am

MonsterDad wrote:Charlie, and that would be the same for foods with grains, the vast majority of users would be households with 1- 3 pets. It is irrelevant. The point of this was to see how many people switched because of chronic health issues like ear infections, etc. Not to start suggesting that people that use GF foods are uppity or inexperienced. Does having 1 - 2 vs 10 dogs make a person less knowledgeable or experienced? Having 1 -2 dogs does make it easier to upgrade certain things but it doesn't mean anything else and it certainly isn't a reflection of expertise.

His comment was clearly to suggest that the users of GF foods were less experienced and naive dog owners.

For some, using the better products saves quite a bit of money. Who wants to drop $100 every time a dog gets an ear infection?

I have no idea where this post is coming from or who you are misinterpreting since I can not find anything that says what you are saying. However, since it is Brazo and you that seem to be having trouble I kind of assume it is me that you are talking about. It appears my post said,

Grain free is pretty much relegated to the single house dog crowd. Outside working dogs have always used a good balanced diet made up of both animal and vegetable sources. And I would strongly expect that to continue.

Ezzy

The reasoning behind that is that larger operation with several dogs seldom feel they can afford the higher prices and they also know from experience it is very difficult to keep a working active dog in condition when feeding grain free. I don't see a thing that equated to level of experience or knowledge. And as you know you are able to get by quite nicely feeding a pet most any kind of feed.
It probably is before your time but most dogs were fed a grain based diet for years till we had manufactured formulated feeds available. That was a tremendous advantage over the old home cooked and scraps feed they received up to that time.
In my own experience going back sixty plus years, we have never had a feed based exterior infection in our own dogs or the dogs we boarded and trained during that time. And that covered many breeds including Labs as well as pointing dogs .
Hope this clears up your misunderstanding of what has been said and a very short explanation as to why it was said. Thank God, we live in a society where you can feed what ever you like, though that is gradually being chipped away by people who insist that their way of feeding is far superior to any other, and that just isn't true.

Thanks Charlie for your input so I know I wasn't that hard to figure out what was being said.

Ezzy

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:59 am

slistoe wrote: Check out the number of views, divide by 2/3 to account for repeat views, subtract the number of "votes" and the rest of the people are in the "who gives a rats patooie" category. I would bet dollars to donuts that 99% of the "who gives a ...." category feed something with grain in it.

There you go... It's funny me and 99% of dog owners have never had dogs with skin or ear issues related to food.

But "bleep" you get on the WWW and 75% of people have dogs with "allergies".

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:20 am

There you go Andy,I agree totally

I can't count the dogs I've owned since 1969,started with Dobe show dogs then GSPS in 74 owned both until middle 80's.When my last Dobes passed stayed with GSPS & now currently own 8.
I have never owned a dog that had food allergies & have fed many different foods overs the yrs some expensive & some as cheap as you can buy.I have only fed 2 feeds I can remember that all my dogs didn't do very well on,1 very expensive at the time the other very cheap.Those 2 feeds the expensive one dogs just wouldn't eat & the other cheap one dogs had the runs.
All I have to say is feed what you can afford & makes you happy but in most cases the dogs will do fine on what ever food you put in front of them.

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:16 pm

I haven't kept track of numbers but would guess I'm up near a thousand we have had in our kennels over the years and am yet to find one with a problem either. Did have a poodle I bought with all kinds of problems and the night I brought it home it wanted to eat some dry food that was in a dish on the kitchen floor so I picked up its canned food and the dog never got anything else after that and all of it's problems just disappeared. I threw away about 200 dollars of medicine it had to have and the dog lived a long and happy life from that time on.

If our dogs actually have all of the hgealth issues you read about on this forum and other places to then we sure have done a lousy job of breeding in the past 30 or 40 years since these problems weren't problems back then.

Ezzy

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:32 pm

Ezzy, you have your shorts in a bunch about nothing. This is a simple poll about what others are doing. You are the one that got defensive and emotional.

I suppose you see a motive of some kind. There isn't one.

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:28 pm

MonsterDad wrote:Ezzy, you have your shorts in a bunch about nothing. This is a simple poll about what others are doing. You are the one that got defensive and emotional.

I suppose you see a motive of some kind. There isn't one.

Why would I have my shorts in a bunch? Not sure yet what you are talking about but this is strictly a poll about who feeds grain and who doesn't and has nothing to do with ear problems, cost, or conditioning.
Sure glad you posted the poll though it will not tell anyone anything but we didn't intend it to, right?

Ezzy

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:24 pm

Not to start suggesting that people that use GF foods are uppity or inexperienced. Does having 1 - 2 vs 10 dogs make a person less knowledgeable or experienced? Having 1 -2 dogs does make it easier to upgrade certain things but it doesn't mean anything else and it certainly isn't a reflection of expertise.

I am in no way suggesting people who feed grain free are uppity or inexperienced....I will suggest though, that it is easier to afford with less dogs and even though I agree it is not necessarily a reflection of less knowledge or expertise, I do believe, however, it reflects how well a marketing strategy can work with people who probably have just one dog and think they are taking better care of that dog by spending more money on food. Marketing, when done right is a powerful and influential tool, but it is none of my business for somebody to feed what they want and can afford. I just don't believe you will find many field trialers with a string of dogs or hunters with a few good gun dogs feeding GF, and those dogs do just fine and many excel in what they do.

Charlie

nanney1 · Post by **nanney1** » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:18 am

Ezzy:
Why did you buy a Poodle with all sorts of problems that was on canned food and required hundreds of dollars in medicine? I know this is off-topic but I did vote in the poll. Just curious about why you would get such a dog and even more curious about the miraculous change after the switch to dry.

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:27 am

Small sample so far, but it does appear there is a very good showing for grain-free feeders.

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:35 am

nanney1 wrote:Ezzy:
Why did you buy a Poodle with all sorts of problems that was on canned food and required hundreds of dollars in medicine? I know this is off-topic but I did vote in the poll. Just curious about why you would get such a dog and even more curious about the miraculous change after the switch to dry.

That was back when I was in the dog business and I felt very sorry for the dog and the nice lady who had gotten stuck with the dog when she didn't want it. I was pretty sure what the problem was when I saw the dog. It was thin with a very dull coat and was having diarrhea problems about every month though it had been wormed. The poor lady thought when the dog didn't eat it needed to have something mixed in to make the dog eat so the dog was just being over fed to the point of lose and runny stools and had little appetite unless something was mixed into the feed. Once I let the dog eat what it wanted and only when it was hungry the colitis, which he was being treated for monthly disappeared, he gained weight and condition to the point he looked quite different. We did find a good home for him and he did very well after that.

The lady that had him wouldn't believe it was her dog.

Ezzy

Del Lolo · Post by **Del Lolo** » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:06 am

slistoe wrote: Check out the number of views, divide by 2/3 to account for repeat views,

"repeat views" are not counted.

.

Post by **slistoe** » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:43 am

Just tried it. 776 views, went out of thread, re-entered the thread and went back out - 777 views. Bet it is 778 after I post this.

Del Lolo · Post by **Del Lolo** » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:59 am

slistoe wrote:Just tried it. 776 views, went out of thread, re-entered the thread and went back out - 777 views. Bet it is 778 after I post this.

Somebody else must have clicked on it.
It's still 778 even after i clicked it three times.

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:37 am

Views don't count, unless you are Al Gore.

I must say I am surprised. Almost half use GF.

Ezzy, your theory isn't holding.

Post by **slistoe** » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:06 am

Believe what you want.

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:24 am

MonsterDad wrote:Views don't count, unless you are Al Gore.

I must say I am surprised. Almost half use GF.

Ezzy, your theory isn't holding.

It appears to me that your poll showed exactly what we all knew. And since it wasn't really supposed to show anything I would say it was a success.

And by the way, it does show number of views no matter who they were or how many times.

Ezzy

Winchey · Post by **Winchey** » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:42 am

I have fed a lot of the high fat high protein high calorie feeds. I fed canaidae ALS which I believe is grain free, Evo I think is grain free as well. Dogs did fine, but I have fed feeds with grain that were easier on the wallet the dogs did better on then any grain free feed I have fed.

I think most of it is corn free, and the replace it with rice or potatoes or something because dogs need some carbs. I have nothing against corn, but I wouldn't feed just corn meal to a dog lime most grocery store brands.

It has been my experience that those coat and ear problems often go away when switching from a crap feed to a quality feed, or switching to another quality feed, grain free or otherwise.

Traditional Grain-Based Foods vs Grain-Free Foods - Vote Which You are Using