Any of you feed raw?

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:48 am

walkos5 wrote: Well Thank you for taking the time to read the article. I get the sense that the quotes you posted have some alternative motive for something you are trying to say, then what they really mean. I took the information as proven evidence that fat and protein far outweigh carbs as part of a dogs diet. In fact I also read an article stating the fact that those dogs of the north can do just fine on a diet without any carbs. Something else that troubles me is how you jump to conclusions like, " Just like everything else that has been put up to "prove" the superiority of a raw food diet is completely false". If it is so false why are "100%" of those sled dog teams feeding large quantities of raw meat in the form of moose, caribou, seal, and other sources of natural protein like salmon? Yes they use dry dog food for added nutrition but from what I understand dry food is more of a means of feeding the dogs during summer months when they are inactive, and it is a matter of convience and economics. Huskies are classified as marine animals and that would explain the need for fish in the diet. The statement about high performance diets without meat surprised me too, but using the word "may" leaves room for doubt, may so, may not, may never, so we'll have to leave that up to research. As for how this information pertains to raw vs dry dog food, I thought it would be interesting to see how dogs other then hunting breeds get their nutrition and from what source. I do have respect for the generations past, for their experience and how they cared for their dogs. I too have heard about the addition of lard to the diet. Nothing wrong with that. In a the articles closing statement the author makes an interesting statement.

"It seems humorously ironic to me that if we were to put together all that we have learned from these studies that we would formulate a diet like that which was fed 1000 years ago". I wonder if there were any kibble makers back then Ezzy?

I can't keep weight on my dogs without carbs, especially my male, he's a hard keeper for sure.

kibafang90 · Post by **kibafang90** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:01 am

ezzy333 wrote:If your dog is bringing back badger she has strangled I will guarantee no matter what kind of an owner she has she is coming back bloody with ripped ears and would be real lucky to not have cuts across her stomach and possibly a few intestine showing. And if it is far enough away to find a badger I will also guarantee it has stopped and had a few bites of doggy desert commonly known as deer and horse manure, bear scat, and kitty litter plus a few unknowns lying beside the road. For some strange reason dogs will be dogs no matter how much we like to think they wouldn't. But it doesn't make a bit of difference how good an owner we are. They all do it.

Ezzy

She grabbed it so quick. I thought IT grabbed HER by the mouth. SHE had IT by the neck, upside down, and she wasn't moving an INCH. I was scared HITless.
In blind panic i literally ran away from her, towards my house. (im such a good loving owner to leave my dog like that, i know)
Came back towards her to see the thing there, and her ALL happy to give me what she got. (not that i wanted it in the first place)
I'm just happy she killed it dead. I don't have a gun too shoot it... And just imagine if IT got her before she got it?! Lord..
She usually brings back small creatures, like birds, rabbit, one time a snake.

Never SEEN her catch anything but that badger one time, and one time some sort of baby creature, no clue what it was though.
I DO get lots of comments when i hang with a friend who hunts with his 3 bird dogs. His friends say nice things.. Well, they are rude compliments.. They say "what a waste of a good dog ECT." And "too bad she has an owner that doesn't know this hunting thing from another."
I get it, i don't hunt. I shouldn't have gotten a bird dog. I should have gotten a shep. :/

Doesn't matter anyways, this ones old and dying.
Wont be getting any more dogs.

kibafang90 · Post by **kibafang90** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:12 am

Cajun Casey wrote:
displaced_texan wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:If your dog is bringing back badger she has strangled I will guarantee no matter what kind of an owner she has she is coming back bloody with ripped ears and would be real lucky to not have cuts across her stomach and possibly a few intestine showing. And if it is far enough away to find a badger I will also guarantee it has stopped and had a few bites of doggy desert commonly known as deer and horse manure, bear scat, and kitty litter plus a few unknowns lying beside the road. For some strange reason dogs will be dogs no matter how much we like to think they wouldn't. But it doesn't make a bit of difference how good an owner we are. They all do it.

Ezzy
Off topic...

A few years ago dad found a big coon that one of his dogs had killed during the night. She had several scrapes, but no real cuts. I was shocked and demanded pictures.
Casey killed a skunk so fast once he didn't even get sprayed.

I personally hate skunks. My dog had a huge vet bill, and what we thought to be a broken leg after jumping over a fence and falling down a set of cement stairs to get to one. Luckily the thing hid in a crevice between the house and basement. We had to have animal control come down. It wouldn't come out of the place it was in.
Skunks personally owe me a hit load of money and time.
And yes, call me a bad owner for letting my dog almost kill herself. I was about halfway across the yard when she went for it.

Anyways, what happened with barbed wire?

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:30 am

kibafang90 wrote:...Doesn't matter anyways, this ones old and dying.
Wont be getting any more dogs.

I concur with your decision.

walkos5 · Post by **walkos5** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:32 am

MonsterDad wrote:In fairness to Ezzy, the Romans and Egyptians did make grain-based kibbles to feed their dogs as they travelled to battle. Kibbles have been found in Roman and Egyptian ruins that were made of spelt.

The Romans used Mastiffs in battle and I doubt fresh meat was going to be fed to them while the soldiers were hungry.

Now that's what I call a history lesson. Those Romans and Egyptians were crafty buggers. I once read that dentistry also dates back to that era or longer with evidence of small holes having been drilled into teeth probably to relieve pressure and somehow preserve the tooth. I would need some strong fermented grain water in me to allow that. The 95% proof by volume kind.

Angus · Post by **Angus** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:58 pm

Man, my head hurts. I can't believe I read this whole thread a little at a time over the past few days.

Kibble works for me and my dogs. I do not have the time to be a Lady Man and make meals for my dogs (I gotta cook supper for the family after working or hunting all day

). I will not feed just any kibble though, and like quality ingredients to be used, from a good company. What consists of quality ingredients or a good company are entirely based on my opinion. There is no sense in arguing my opinion.

walkos5 · Post by **walkos5** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:12 pm

I don't have the wife butcher my deer either, (guess I'm just a softy). Nothing wrong with stating your opinion on what you feed. I thought that's what this forum was about, discussing your thoughts and experiences with other gun dog enthusiasts, Pick up a few pointers and hand out a few if you have any.

Angus · Post by **Angus** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:48 pm

Maybe you should have your wife butcher your deer.

Then you could prepare it for your dogs.

Sarcasm and stuffzzzz...

walkos5 · Post by **walkos5** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:39 pm

Angus wrote:Maybe you should have your wife butcher your deer.

Then you could prepare it for your dogs.

Sarcasm and stuffzzzz...

Sorry, I don't take suggestions from strangers who feed kibble.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:06 pm

Then you shouldn't ask many questions on this site because probably 99% here feed kibble!!

walkos5 · Post by **walkos5** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:37 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:Then you shouldn't ask many questions on this site because probably 99% here feed kibble!!

Is that a fact or just your opinion? What's your source?

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:41 pm

Angus wrote:Man, my head hurts. I can't believe I read this whole thread a little at a time over the past few days.

Kibble works for me and my dogs. I do not have the time to be a Lady Man and make meals for my dogs (I gotta cook supper for the family after working or hunting all day ). I will not feed just any kibble though, and like quality ingredients to be used, from a good company. What consists of quality ingredients or a good company are entirely based on my opinion. There is no sense in arguing my opinion.

Nice post!

Charlie

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:45 pm

It's ONLY MO just like it's only your opinion that Raw is better same source opinions!!

walkos5 · Post by **walkos5** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:25 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:It's ONLY MO just like it's only your opinion that Raw is better same source opinions!!

With opinions like that you would be better off presenting facts! But that's just my opinion...

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:12 pm

walkos5 wrote:I don't have the wife butcher my deer either, (guess I'm just a softy). Nothing wrong with stating your opinion on what you feed. I thought that's what this forum was about, discussing your thoughts and experiences with other gun dog enthusiasts, Pick up a few pointers and hand out a few if you have any.

The problem isn't stating your opinion.

Don't go expecting pats on the back and everyone agreeing with you for all your efforts to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

walkos5 · Post by **walkos5** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:45 am

displaced_texan wrote:
walkos5 wrote:I don't have the wife butcher my deer either, (guess I'm just a softy). Nothing wrong with stating your opinion on what you feed. I thought that's what this forum was about, discussing your thoughts and experiences with other gun dog enthusiasts, Pick up a few pointers and hand out a few if you have any.
The problem isn't stating your opinion.

Don't go expecting pats on the back and everyone agreeing with you for all your efforts to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

The only problem that really exists is that some of the strict kibble feeders always feel the need to put down almost any advice or recommendations made by those who feed a natural diet. Just because there is no scientific proof on certain pieces of information doesn't mean it's not the truth. I could provide a list on all that is added to commercial dog food that is just plain bad stuff but I don't stoop to their level because I'm not here to sabotage anyone's effort to continue feeding kibble. I just wanted readers to see the other side and what benefits exist for those who feed a natural diet.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:12 am

walkos5 wrote:
displaced_texan wrote:
walkos5 wrote:I don't have the wife butcher my deer either, (guess I'm just a softy). Nothing wrong with stating your opinion on what you feed. I thought that's what this forum was about, discussing your thoughts and experiences with other gun dog enthusiasts, Pick up a few pointers and hand out a few if you have any.
The problem isn't stating your opinion.

Don't go expecting pats on the back and everyone agreeing with you for all your efforts to fix a problem that doesn't exist.
The only problem that really exists is that some of the strict kibble feeders always feel the need to put down almost any advice or recommendations made by those who feed a natural diet. Just because there is no scientific proof on certain pieces of information doesn't mean it's not the truth. I could provide a list on all that is added to commercial dog food that is just plain bad stuff but I don't stoop to their level because I'm not here to sabotage anyone's effort to continue feeding kibble. I just wanted readers to see the other side and what benefits exist for those who feed a natural diet.

Excuse me but I want to see the list of all the bad stuff that goes into kibble. Could you furnish that and where did the info come from? Tell me how it computes that a company making dog food is going to put something bad in it? And also point out how they get it by the FDA, USDA, and the state inspections and testing?

Slightly different take on this, but how many different feeds have you tested on your dogs? I am hoping you have enough experience to be able to see the differences in the dogs you have fed or are feeding. It is quite a broad and also intercut subject when you really get into it. Animal nutritionist have a lot of education behind them and draw a pretty good salary to do what they do. I just always felt they knew more than I or most other dog owners.

Ezzy

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:05 am

I'd like to see such a list awesome as well..

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:25 am

displaced_texan wrote:I'd like to see such a list awesome as well..

You are feeding 4D beef in your food. That's from the guy that reps the company. I am feeding what they scrape off the line in every Tyson plant in the Ozarks. That's from the guy that brokers the stuff. Your dogs are as weird as mine. Dog Health and Nutrition for Dummies covers it all pretty well. You can borrow it sometime.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:57 am

Cajun Casey wrote:
displaced_texan wrote:I'd like to see such a list awesome as well..
You are feeding 4D beef in your food. That's from the guy that reps the company. I am feeding what they scrape off the line in every Tyson plant in the Ozarks. That's from the guy that brokers the stuff. Your dogs are as weird as mine. Dog Health and Nutrition for Dummies covers it all pretty well. You can borrow it sometime.

The reps are well schooled in sale strategies but know little about nutrition.
Ezzy

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:04 am

ezzy333 wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:
displaced_texan wrote:I'd like to see such a list awesome as well..
You are feeding 4D beef in your food. That's from the guy that reps the company. I am feeding what they scrape off the line in every Tyson plant in the Ozarks. That's from the guy that brokers the stuff. Your dogs are as weird as mine. Dog Health and Nutrition for Dummies covers it all pretty well. You can borrow it sometime.
The reps are well schooled in sale strategies but know little about nutrition.
Ezzy

Not always. I'm not talking about a distributor salesman, but an employee of the actual food company. I know the difference. However, they both bounce the same when I boot them out.

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:17 am

Cajun Casey wrote:
displaced_texan wrote:I'd like to see such a list awesome as well..
You are feeding 4D beef in your food. That's from the guy that reps the company. I am feeding what they scrape off the line in every Tyson plant in the Ozarks. That's from the guy that brokers the stuff. Your dogs are as weird as mine. Dog Health and Nutrition for Dummies covers it all pretty well. You can borrow it sometime.

My dogs are definitely freaks!

Sounds good to me.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:40 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:
displaced_texan wrote:I'd like to see such a list awesome as well..
You are feeding 4D beef in your food. That's from the guy that reps the company. I am feeding what they scrape off the line in every Tyson plant in the Ozarks. That's from the guy that brokers the stuff. Your dogs are as weird as mine. Dog Health and Nutrition for Dummies covers it all pretty well. You can borrow it sometime.

So basically you're saying our dogs are eating the equivalent of hot dogs? Lol

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:52 pm

ACooper wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:
displaced_texan wrote:I'd like to see such a list awesome as well..
You are feeding 4D beef in your food. That's from the guy that reps the company. I am feeding what they scrape off the line in every Tyson plant in the Ozarks. That's from the guy that brokers the stuff. Your dogs are as weird as mine. Dog Health and Nutrition for Dummies covers it all pretty well. You can borrow it sometime.
So basically you're saying our dogs are eating the equivalent of hot dogs? Lol

Mechanically separated chicken is its own food group, dude.

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:44 pm

ACooper wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:
displaced_texan wrote:I'd like to see such a list awesome as well..
You are feeding 4D beef in your food. That's from the guy that reps the company. I am feeding what they scrape off the line in every Tyson plant in the Ozarks. That's from the guy that brokers the stuff. Your dogs are as weird as mine. Dog Health and Nutrition for Dummies covers it all pretty well. You can borrow it sometime.
So basically you're saying our dogs are eating the equivalent of hot dogs? Lol

There's a reason I only buy kosher hotdogs, and I'm not Jewish.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:31 pm

There's a reason I only buy kosher hotdogs, and I'm not Jewish.[/quote]
One of my sons is the plant manager of a human food facility and he says all it takes for something to be Kosher is you have to pay the Rabbi.

Ezzy

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:41 pm

ezzy333 wrote:There's a reason I only buy kosher hotdogs, and I'm not Jewish.

One of my sons is the plant manager of a human food facility and he says all it takes for something to be Kosher is you have to pay the Rabbi.

Ezzy[/quote]

Depends on the Rabbi.....I prefer Hofmann natural casing out of Syracuse, NY.

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:19 pm

ezzy333 wrote: One of my sons is the plant manager of a human food facility and he says all it takes for something to be Kosher is you have to pay the Rabbi.

Ezzy

Is there anything you don't know?

Most kosher hotdogs are all beef, I've never actually seen ones that weren't.

I maybe buy meat at the store twice a year.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:32 pm

displaced_texan wrote:
ezzy333 wrote: One of my sons is the plant manager of a human food facility and he says all it takes for something to be Kosher is you have to pay the Rabbi.

Ezzy
Is there anything you don't know?

Most kosher hotdogs are all beef, I've never actually seen ones that weren't.

I maybe buy meat at the store twice a year.

Well, if you'd pay attention when you're driving, maybe you wouldn't have so much armadillo on the menu.

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:29 pm

Cajun Casey wrote: Well, if you'd pay attention when you're driving, maybe you wouldn't have so much armadillo on the menu.

I hit other stuff too!

walkos5 · Post by **walkos5** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:57 pm

[/quote] Excuse me but I want to see the list of all the bad stuff that goes into kibble. Could you furnish that and where did the info come from? Tell me how it computes that a company making dog food is going to put something bad in it? And also point out how they get it by the FDA, USDA, and the state inspections and testing?

Slightly different take on this, but how many different feeds have you tested on your dogs? I am hoping you have enough experience to be able to see the differences in the dogs you have fed or are feeding. It is quite a broad and also intercut subject when you really get into it. Animal nutritionist have a lot of education behind them and draw a pretty good salary to do what they do. I just always felt they knew more than I or most other dog owners.

Ezzy[/quote]

(BHT) and (BHA) Both cause liver and kidney dysfunction. (Ethoxyquin) is believed to cause cancer.(Propylene glycol) causes the destruction of red blood cells. I will disclose the source when I get your response to this information. The PFI, AAFCO, FDA, and CUM all profess standards and measures by which the dog food manufactures operate, but they do not have the authority to uphold them. The huge conglomerates that include Nestle, Colgate-Palmolive, Mars, and P&G use pet food companies as a cheap and profitable way to dispose of waste produced by their human food companies. This includes sick and or euthanized farm animals, lab animals and it is still believed that a percentage of euthanized dogs and cats are being used to make the dry dog food sold in big box stores and local food stores.

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:06 pm

I've responded. Quote your source.

And quote a source on the rest of your post while you're at it.

walkos5 · Post by **walkos5** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:02 am

displaced_texan wrote:I've responded. Quote your source.

And quote a source on the rest of your post while you're at it.

The Purina One Smart Blend that I purchased 4 weeks ago which was certainly not one of the cheaper choices contains, (Animal fat preserved with mixed tocopherols). Using mixed tocopherols is a healthy way to preserve ingredients in dog food but the ingredient (Animal Fat) has been determined by the (" FDA") to be one of several ingredients known to contain diseased euthanized animals and the drug used to kill them. (Animal Fat) is not an identified animal and can come from slaughter houses, factory farms, and other unknown sources.

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:19 am

walkos5 wrote:
displaced_texan wrote:I've responded. Quote your source.

And quote a source on the rest of your post while you're at it.
The Purina One Smart Blend that I purchased 4 weeks ago which was certainly not one of the cheaper choices contains, (Animal fat preserved with mixed tocopherols). Using mixed tocopherols is a healthy way to preserve ingredients in dog food but the ingredient (Animal Fat) has been determined by the (" FDA") to be one of several ingredients known to contain diseased euthanized animals and the drug used to kill them. (Animal Fat) is not an identified animal and can come from slaughter houses, factory farms, and other unknown sources.

What are you worried about? Don't you trust Nestle?

All the Purina foods contain ethoxyquin and BHA/BHT as well. They don't have to list it because they have the suppliers put it in. Nice loophole.

walkos5 · Post by **walkos5** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:21 am

MonsterDad wrote:
walkos5 wrote:
displaced_texan wrote:I've responded. Quote your source.

And quote a source on the rest of your post while you're at it.
The Purina One Smart Blend that I purchased 4 weeks ago which was certainly not one of the cheaper choices contains, (Animal fat preserved with mixed tocopherols). Using mixed tocopherols is a healthy way to preserve ingredients in dog food but the ingredient (Animal Fat) has been determined by the (" FDA") to be one of several ingredients known to contain diseased euthanized animals and the drug used to kill them. (Animal Fat) is not an identified animal and can come from slaughter houses, factory farms, and other unknown sources.
What are you worried about? Don't you trust Nestle?

All the Purina foods contain ethoxyquin and BHA/BHT as well. They don't have to list it because they have the suppliers put it in. Nice loophole.

Is there any dry kibble made that does not contain any harmful ingredients, because my kids like to feed kibble when teaching tricks and sometimes I add some when I come up short with raw feed? I do try to stay away as much as possible.

Post by **slistoe** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:50 am

walkos5 wrote:
Is there any dry kibble made that does not contain any harmful ingredients, because my kids like to feed kibble when teaching tricks and sometimes I add some when I come up short with raw feed? I do try to stay away as much as possible.

Do your kids eat breakfast cereal, chips, crackers, commercial bread, lunch meat etc. etc.

walkos5 · Post by **walkos5** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:21 pm

slistoe wrote:
walkos5 wrote:
Is there any dry kibble made that does not contain any harmful ingredients, because my kids like to feed kibble when teaching tricks and sometimes I add some when I come up short with raw feed? I do try to stay away as much as possible.
Do your kids eat breakfast cereal, chips, crackers, commercial bread, lunch meat etc. etc.

We do feed him cheerios and stuff like that but what I'm really after is a good dog food that we can feed when I don't have any meat or if I'm not home and didn't put together a batch of his food. I don't mind paying a little more for something that's worth it.

Post by **slistoe** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:24 pm

walkos5 wrote:
slistoe wrote:
walkos5 wrote:
Is there any dry kibble made that does not contain any harmful ingredients, because my kids like to feed kibble when teaching tricks and sometimes I add some when I come up short with raw feed? I do try to stay away as much as possible.
Do your kids eat breakfast cereal, chips, crackers, commercial bread, lunch meat etc. etc.
We do use cheerios and stuff like that but what I'm really after is a good dog food that we can feed when I don't have any meat or if I'm not home and didn't put together a batch of his food. I don't mind paying a little more for something that's worth it.

So you are worried about your dogs getting BHT, but not your kids?

walkos5 · Post by **walkos5** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:16 pm

Well to be honest we really don't eat much cereal and also buy organic when its on sale and that's a whole lot different then eating the same thing day after day. I know there are lots of undesirable additives in many products people consume but I highly doubt there are any euthanaised animals or the drugs in any of my children's foods or mine for that matter. Can't you just admit that there's a lot of cheap unhealthy kibble out there and be done with it? There was just a bunch of dogs that died last week from some kind of snacks sent from china. Dog food makers are all about profit, not about how healthy they can keep your dog.

walkos5 · Post by **walkos5** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:18 pm

[quote="walkos5"]Well to be honest we really don't eat much cereal and also buy organic when its on sale and that's a whole lot different then eating the same thing day after day. I know there are lots of undesirable additives in many products people consume but I highly doubt there are any euthanaised animals or the drugs in any of my children's foods or mine for that matter. Can't you just admit that there's a lot of cheap unhealthy kibble out there and be done with it? There was just a bunch of dogs that died last week from some kind of snacks sent from china. Dog food makers are all about profit, not about how healthy they can keep your dog.

Post by **slistoe** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:27 pm

Sure there are poorer quality kibbles. But you are barking up the wrong tree in your search for "quality" IMO.
People food makers are out for profit. It is bad for business if people die - really hurts profits.
What does "organic" really mean? Extra profit.

shags · Post by **shags** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:46 pm

Every business is all about profit. Even you...you get a paycheck don't you?

And dog food companies have to be concerned to some degree about dogs' health. They wouldn't be in business raking in those profits if their customers' animals were all sick or dead :roll:

Here's something to chew on...
the USDA proposal itself noted that, "No distinctions should be made between organically and non-organically produced products in terms of quality, appearance, or safety." In other words, no claim should be made that the foods themselves are better—or even different!

It was copied and pasted from here http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRel ... ganic.html

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:31 pm

Now shags, don't you know that big companies, competition and capitalism are all evil!!

Charlie

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:49 pm

Slistoe,

We don't buy things like that and we have very few prepared foods in the house. We eat no fast food, rarely eat anything fried unless olive oil is used and buy organic when possible.

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:53 pm

Is there any dry kibble made that does not contain any harmful ingredients, because my kids like to feed kibble when teaching tricks and sometimes I add some when I come up short with raw feed? I do try to stay away as much as possible.

You live in PA you should be able to find able to find Annamaet very easily. Or order a bag of Dr. Tim's from Mr. Chewy. They ship out of Harrisburg.

Those are both excellent, all natural foods. You could easily mix either of those two with raw, which is what I do.

walkos5 · Post by **walkos5** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:27 pm

shags wrote:Every business is all about profit. Even you...you get a paycheck don't you?

And dog food companies have to be concerned to some degree about dogs' health. They wouldn't be in business raking in those profits if their customers' animals were all sick or dead :roll:

Here's something to chew on...
the USDA proposal itself noted that, "No distinctions should be made between organically and non-organically produced products in terms of quality, appearance, or safety." In other words, no claim should be made that the foods themselves are better—or even different!

It was copied and pasted from here http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRel ... ganic.html

I heard it put this way. Dogs survive on commercial dog food but they do not thrive.

walkos5 · Post by **walkos5** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:30 pm

MonsterDad wrote:
Is there any dry kibble made that does not contain any harmful ingredients, because my kids like to feed kibble when teaching tricks and sometimes I add some when I come up short with raw feed? I do try to stay away as much as possible.

You live in PA you should be able to find able to find Annamaet very easily. Or order a bag of Dr. Tim's from Mr. Chewy. They ship out of Harrisburg.

Those are both excellent, all natural foods. You could easily mix either of those two with raw, which is what I do.

Thanks, I will look into both.

Post by **slistoe** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:37 pm

MonsterDad wrote:Slistoe,

We don't buy things like that and we have very few prepared foods in the house. We eat no fast food, rarely eat anything fried unless olive oil is used and buy organic when possible.

Good for you. It does bother me when folks take a stand on "principle" for their dogs and do not give the same care to themselves and especially their children.

Post by **Sharon** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:57 pm

walkos5 wrote:
shags wrote:
I heard it put this way. Dogs survive on commercial dog food but they do not thrive.

Grrrr You're making me want to swear, but I could never swear at you.

Fed Purina for 50 years and my dogs definitely thrived and still do.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:28 pm

I would say that dogs living to be old age & still healthy & look half their age are thriving.Walkos come back & tell & show us all how much healthier & active your dog is when he/she is 15 yrs old.Untill then your slobbering in your underwear. :roll: