Chinese Ingredients

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:03 am

The FDA has apparently been unable to figure out why certain products for pets imported from China are killing dogs and cats.

I am sure some food brands use chicken and chicken by products imported from China, as well as vitamins.

Which food companies will disclose in writing that they do not use Chinese ingredients?

Post by **Sharon** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:05 am

The USA has shown leadership in banning many products that Canada has not:

http://www.oodmag.com/community/showthr ... -Pets-Dead

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:21 am

Off the top of my head, Blue Buffalo, Orijen, Red Barn, Tasman's, Cloud Star, PureBites, Zuke's.

SpinoneIllinois · Post by **SpinoneIllinois** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:33 pm

Do federal labeling laws require manufacturers to disclose if a product is made overseas?
What about if it's made in the U.S., but an ingredient comes from overseas?

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:42 pm

Diamond only states all ingredients are from food grade distributors, I would like to imagine there is no "food grade" chicken coming in from China as the mid Atlantic area of the east coast is covered in Chicken houses.

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:19 pm

SpinoneIllinois wrote:Do federal labeling laws require manufacturers to disclose if a product is made overseas?
What about if it's made in the U.S., but an ingredient comes from overseas?

Yes, to #1. Country of Origin would be where the product is made into the form that it is sold. If the food is made in Germany with ingredients from Spain, it would be labeled "Made in Germany".

No, to #2, the product could be made in the USA into the form it is sold but use 100% Chinese ingredients and there is no law requiring disclosure of the ingredients. It could legally say "Made in the USA".

walkos5 · Post by **walkos5** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:22 am

MonsterDad wrote:
SpinoneIllinois wrote:Do federal labeling laws require manufacturers to disclose if a product is made overseas?
What about if it's made in the U.S., but an ingredient comes from overseas?
Yes, to #1. Country of Origin would be where the product is made into the form that it is sold. If the food is made in Germany with ingredients from Spain, it would be labeled "Made in Germany".

No, to #2, the product could be made in the USA into the form it is sold but use 100% Chinese ingredients and there is no law requiring disclosure of the ingredients. It could legally say "Made in the USA".

Sounds like more of those convenient loopholes you warned us of earlier. Just another way to slip cheap ingredients in and charge more.

walkos5 · Post by **walkos5** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:09 am

birddog1968 wrote:Diamond only states all ingredients are from food grade distributors, I would like to imagine there is no "food grade" chicken coming in from China as the mid Atlantic area of the east coast is covered in Chicken houses.

How about asking them if they add cheap vitamins from china because I noticed that Diamond had a dog food recall back in 2012. It seems pet owners were getting salmonala from using their dry dog food. How about getting us some real proof because your imagination is of little importance to those of us trying to keep our pets safe?

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:15 am

You need to get out from under that rock on the side of the mountian you live on.....grow up.

I only stated what I found on Diamond's site for everyones benefit. You decide to be nasty here on a 2 week old post, made
so others didn't need to go look up the same thing again (for diamond users) is obviously just your childish reaction to being
outted on other threads for your ill advise. I realize your dog is too smart to be bitten by a snake and its probably because of
his superior diet. So if you have something constructive to add please do, if not and you just want to be nasty for nasty's sake
put it in a PM, I probably won't read it or reply but keep it off a thread where folks are trying to post pertinent information.

SubMariner · Post by **SubMariner** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:39 am

MonsterDad wrote:The FDA has apparently been unable to figure out why certain products for pets imported from China are killing dogs and cats.

I am sure some food brands use chicken and chicken by products imported from China, as well as vitamins.

Which food companies will disclose in writing that they do not use Chinese ingredients?

When I emailed EVO about their ingredient sources their response was that they did not source anything from China.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:08 pm

This guy just can't take a HINT! We are all tired of the BS Walkos! :roll:

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:30 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:This guy just can't take a HINT! We are all tired of the BS Walkos! :roll:

Very true and also Monster Dad who is Walkos hero. Innuendo is not sufficient when providing reliable information to other members. If you can't follow these requirements we will have to take further action as you are wearing out your welcome from other members.

Ezzy

walkos5 · Post by **walkos5** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:30 pm

birddog1968 wrote:You need to get out from under that rock on the side of the mountian you live on.....grow up.

I only stated what I found on Diamond's site for everyones benefit. You decide to be nasty here on a 2 week old post, made
so others didn't need to go look up the same thing again (for diamond users) is obviously just your childish reaction to being
outted on other threads for your ill advise. I realize your dog is too smart to be bitten by a snake and its probably because of
his superior diet. So if you have something constructive to add please do, if not and you just want to be nasty for nasty's sake
put it in a PM, I probably won't read it or reply but keep it off a thread where folks are trying to post pertinent information.

How does it feel? I've been putting up with nasty comments from my very first post on here. You and a few others seem to have no problem dishing out childish remarks but it hurts when they come back doesn't it. If you really want to help the readers on this forum, stop protecting the dog food industry and try holding them accountable
by presenting information with proof of ingredients not what you imagine to be ok. It seems like you have no problem adding negative remarks when someone brings the truth to the surface and its not in the best interest of the dog food industry. I have no problem keeping my comments constructive and the nasty comments will stop when you and your friends show a little respect!

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:34 pm

your full of yourself. You can't "hurt" me or make me angry......

Who recalls your food for salmonella? No one, doesn't mean it isn't in there, along with who knows what else.

Respect is earned ....

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:37 pm

He is about to HANG himself & can't even comprehend the warning!!

Labs4Me · Post by **Labs4Me** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:43 pm

Diamond's recall due to salmonella was a production issue, not an ingredients issue. Which anyone who actually read the FDA report would know. If they were being intellectually honest, that is.

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/AboutFDA/C ... 304252.pdf

SubMariner, there is a very nice interactive map here for Evo and other Natura pet products:
http://seebeyondthebag.com/

There are constructive ways to discuss these issues and be helpful...... and then there are hysterical overreactions. :roll:

walkos5 · Post by **walkos5** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:22 pm

Labs4Me wrote:Diamond's recall due to salmonella was a production issue, not an ingredients issue. Which anyone who actually read the FDA report would know. If they were being intellectually honest, that is.

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/AboutFDA/C ... 304252.pdf

SubMariner, there is a very nice interactive map here for Evo and other Natura pet products:
http://seebeyondthebag.com/

There are constructive ways to discuss these issues and be helpful...... and then there are hysterical overreactions. :roll:

Thanks for clearing all that up. But if a dog food manufacturer is putting out bad product weather it is within an ingredient or just bad handling of the product, it is still neglect and a problem for the consumer. It would be helpful if you could clear up the concern as to weather they use any products from china within their ingredients though? I think people have the right to be concerned with what they feed their pets because of what's been going on over the past few months. If I'm being over reactive then I apologize, and there's no need to answer my question if you think it is not fair.

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:31 pm

There are precious few that don't use ingredients from China.

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:37 pm

MonsterDad wrote:There are precious few that don't use ingredients from China.

How do you know who uses ingredients purchased in CHINA?

Ezzy

Labs4Me · Post by **Labs4Me** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:48 pm

What has been going on with jerky treats has been going on far longer than the past few months. Fanconi following ingestion of jerky treats has been reported as far back as 2007. It has been years. And it has not been limited to jerky products from China. And not just chicken. And not just made for canine consumption. Veterinarians are beginning to suspect that jerky in itself may be problematic for some dogs. Sort of like grapes. For years people fed grapes to dogs and the majority of dogs handled it just fine, but we now know that for some dogs they can be dangerous, so we tell people to not feed them at all.

Diamond is not "China free." As with most large manufacturers the vitamin premix comes from China (it can be difficult and is certainly costly to source taurine, as one example, from domestic producers) but that is not the source of the problem with either their recall or with the current hysteria over jerky.

There is no food source that is "danger free." Not commercial kibble. Not home cooked. Not raw.

Risk V Benefit. As in all things. And objectively speaking I believe that to be a subjective analysis for all of us.

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:36 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
MonsterDad wrote:There are precious few that don't use ingredients from China.
How do you know who uses ingredients purchased in CHINA?

Ezzy

You have to ask questions and check answers and facts.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:40 pm

I guess we do because neither you nor Walkos can answer them!

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:42 pm

Labs4Me wrote:What has been going on with jerky treats has been going on far longer than the past few months. Fanconi following ingestion of jerky treats has been reported as far back as 2007. It has been years. And it has not been limited to jerky products from China. And not just chicken. And not just made for canine consumption. Veterinarians are beginning to suspect that jerky in itself may be problematic for some dogs. Sort of like grapes. For years people fed grapes to dogs and the majority of dogs handled it just fine, but we now know that for some dogs they can be dangerous, so we tell people to not feed them at all.

Diamond is not "China free." As with most large manufacturers the vitamin premix comes from China (it can be difficult and is certainly costly to source taurine, as one example, from domestic producers) but that is not the source of the problem with either their recall or with the current hysteria over jerky.

There is no food source that is "danger free." Not commercial kibble. Not home cooked. Not raw.

Risk V Benefit. As in all things. And objectively speaking I believe that to be a subjective analysis for all of us.

This is from the recent FDA press release. Also in the press release it states that antibiotic residue was found on the treats and some are not approved drugs.

"Most of the jerky treats implicated have been made in China. Manufacturers of pet foods are not required by U.S. law to state the country of origin for each ingredient in their products."

Best to stay away from Chinese foods products.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/04/world ... .html?_r=0
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/o ... imal-waste

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:50 pm

Like I have stated before probably 99% of us on this forum feed kibble.You & Walkos come on here with nothing but BS & both of you can't figure out why we all think your full of it.
Feed what you like NO ONE cares but get off all the BS,you 2 are the only ones that care about any of it so maybe you 2 should PM each other all your thoughts & ideas about you & your dogs being superior.
Walkos dog is so smart from eating raw his dog runs from snakes but if he did get bit he's probably so hard from all the muscles the fangs probably wouldn't penetrate!
Talk about BS!! there you have it. :roll:

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:57 pm

Bailey's dog treats made in Georgia with stated all US ingredients just made a recall as well.......

These issues as stated before aren't new.....we as a society are just hypersensitive and love a good conspiracy theory (I believe).

http://www.fda.gov/Safety/Recalls/ucm374043.htm

Labs4Me · Post by **Labs4Me** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:23 pm

Most jerky treats are made in China, ergo most of the complaints are about Chinese jerky. However, even home made jerky has been implicated in several cases. The low level antibiotic residue is not believed to be the cause of the problem.

Complaints are going down
FDA has noticed a sharp drop in the number of complaints since several treat products were removed from the market in January 2013 following a study by the New York State Department of Agriculture and Marketing (NYSDAM) that revealed low levels of antibiotic residues in those products. Recalled products included several well-known brands believed to comprise the majority of the jerky pet treat market. FDA believes it unlikely that the reports of illness it has received are caused by the presence of antibiotic residues in jerky pet treat products. Rather, because the brands that were recalled represent a significant portion of the jerky pet treat market in the United States, FDA theorizes, therefore, that the drop off in complaints since January 2013 is the more likely the result of the general lack of availability jerky pet treat products.

Nonetheless, FDA is taking a closer look at the NYSDAM findings. When measurable levels of antibiotic drugs were found in the treats, they were consistently at very low levels—less than 0.0001% (< 1 part per million, or less than one inch in 16 miles). FDA scientists are currently working on a Health Hazard Evaluation (HHE) to more formally measure the potential for low levels of sulfaclozine, sulfaquinoxaline, other sulfonamide drugs, and sulfonamide pesticide residues in the diet over long periods of time to cause health problems in dogs and other animals. This process involves a review of the scientific literature, as well as any adverse event reports and consumer complaints sent to the FDA in connection with dogs and sulfonamide drugs, and may take many months to complete. In the meantime, our investigation continues to evaluate all potential causes for illness from the jerky pet treats

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/Saf ... 371465.htm

Just don't feed jerky. It's not necessary.

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:29 pm

birddog1968 wrote:Bailey's dog treats made in Georgia with stated all US ingredients just made a recall as well.......

These issues as stated before aren't new.....we as a society are just hypersensitive and love a good conspiracy theory (I believe).

http://www.fda.gov/Safety/Recalls/ucm374043.htm

yeah for salmonella, not some unknown toxin...

If the food you use is not China-free, find another.....

here is another story on food fraud in China:

http://now.msn.com/fake-beef-seized-fro ... e-in-china

millerms06 · Post by **millerms06** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:16 pm

I wonder if these cases of salmonella habitually washed their hands, and dog's bowls after feeding? I wonder if they let their dogs lick them right after they eat?

My dad used to buy Diamond by the pallet for years. No dogs died, no salmonella symptoms. Not trying to argue...just stating facts......

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:17 pm

I'll stick whats worked for me for the last decade, thanks......

Bounty_Hunter · Post by **Bounty_Hunter** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:30 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:Like I have stated before probably 99% of us on this forum feed kibble.You & Walkos come on here with nothing but BS & both of you can't figure out why we all think your full of it.
Feed what you like NO ONE cares but get off all the BS,you 2 are the only ones that care about any of it so maybe you 2 should PM each other all your thoughts & ideas about you & your dogs being superior.
Walkos dog is so smart from eating raw his dog runs from snakes but if he did get bit he's probably so hard from all the muscles the fangs probably wouldn't penetrate!
Talk about BS!! there you have it. :roll:

You use too many bad abbreviations. Have some consideration for other readers please!!

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:41 pm

Bounty_Hunter sent you a PM

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:44 pm

Our two posters who enjoyed telling us all how to feed as well as some other information decided to take a week off to see if they can change their attitude a little.

Ezzy

Bounty_Hunter · Post by **Bounty_Hunter** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:35 am

Kibble Club,

Such a disappointment that we all can't have our point of views... now isn't it? Just a shame. Just because those guys don't feed what you feed doesn't give you a right to kick them off. Well that's just my opinion.. just wanted to put that out there.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:22 am

Bounty_Hunter wrote:Kibble Club,

Such a disappointment that we all can't have our point of views... now isn't it? Just a shame. Just because those guys don't feed what you feed doesn't give you a right to kick them off. Well that's just my opinion.. just wanted to put that out there.

I agree and that is not why they aren't here, as you know, if you have read the threads they have posted on. Don't change your opinion as you are absolutely right. Everyone on here has an opinion, that is what makes the site worth while.

Ezzy

pointstar · Post by **pointstar** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:26 pm

MonsterDad wrote:The FDA has apparently been unable to figure out why certain products for pets imported from China are killing dogs and cats.

I am sure some food brands use chicken and chicken by products imported from China, as well as vitamins.

Which food companies will disclose in writing that they do not use Chinese ingredients?

Just look for made in the USA. The best way to do this, is make it yourself, in the USA. My wife makes the dogs jerky here out of london broil and beef heart and the only treats we buy are pigs ears and rawhide, both domestic.

pointstar · Post by **pointstar** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:32 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:Like I have stated before probably 99% of us on this forum feed kibble.You & Walkos come on here with nothing but BS & both of you can't figure out why we all think your full of it.
Feed what you like NO ONE cares but get off all the BS,you 2 are the only ones that care about any of it so maybe you 2 should PM each other all your thoughts & ideas about you & your dogs being superior.
Walkos dog is so smart from eating raw his dog runs from snakes but if he did get bit he's probably so hard from all the muscles the fangs probably wouldn't penetrate!
Talk about BS!! there you have it. :roll:

Prove the 99 % statement, and then prove that the forum does not boot members that do not feed their dogs corn based kibble or that disagree with you?

pointstar · Post by **pointstar** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:34 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
Bounty_Hunter wrote:Kibble Club,

Such a disappointment that we all can't have our point of views... now isn't it? Just a shame. Just because those guys don't feed what you feed doesn't give you a right to kick them off. Well that's just my opinion.. just wanted to put that out there.
I agree and that is not why they aren't here, as you know, if you have read the threads they have posted on. Don't change your opinion as you are absolutely right. Everyone on here has an opinion, that is what makes the site worth while.

Ezzy

Ah, exactly what is the other opinion that diverges away from not feeding your dog something that might kill it...? https://www.google.com/search?site=&sou ... BnaT1uAPFk

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:35 pm

pointstar wrote:
MonsterDad wrote:The FDA has apparently been unable to figure out why certain products for pets imported from China are killing dogs and cats.

I am sure some food brands use chicken and chicken by products imported from China, as well as vitamins.

Which food companies will disclose in writing that they do not use Chinese ingredients?
Just look for made in the USA. The best way to do this, is make it yourself, in the USA. My wife makes the dogs jerky here out of london broil and beef heart and the only treats we buy are pigs ears and rawhide, both domestic.

Made in the USA means absolutely nothing when it comes to a product like pet food.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:38 pm

birddog1968 wrote:You need to get out from under that rock on the side of the mountian you live on.....grow up.

Unfortunately it's an incurable symptom that afflicts many people from gen y....

pointstar · Post by **pointstar** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:42 pm

MonsterDad wrote:
pointstar wrote:
MonsterDad wrote:The FDA has apparently been unable to figure out why certain products for pets imported from China are killing dogs and cats.

I am sure some food brands use chicken and chicken by products imported from China, as well as vitamins.

Which food companies will disclose in writing that they do not use Chinese ingredients?
Just look for made in the USA. The best way to do this, is make it yourself, in the USA. My wife makes the dogs jerky here out of london broil and beef heart and the only treats we buy are pigs ears and rawhide, both domestic.
Made in the USA means absolutely nothing when it comes to a product like pet food.

Then feed your dog cows from Texas and Chickens from the local store, as it's cheaper to grow them here than it is to import them. A dogs food is what a dog eats, not some corn based nothingness in a bag.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:43 pm

To be honest probably more then 99% on here feed kibble but lets see you prove even 1% here feed raw!

pointstar · Post by **pointstar** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:07 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:To be honest probably more then 99% on here feed kibble but lets see you prove even 1% here feed raw!

All of my dogs food is cooked, the venison, the chicken, the pot roast, the pork....... So don't assume.....

PS Just because there are 99 people in a room smoking cigarettes, does not make them healthier nor brighter than the 1 who does not smoke. Give your dog a choice between kibble and real food, and see what it chooses. Puppy mill owners never do this, never.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:50 pm

pointstar wrote:
Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:To be honest probably more then 99% on here feed kibble but lets see you prove even 1% here feed raw!
All of my dogs food is cooked, the venison, the chicken, the pot roast, the pork....... So don't assume.....

PS Just because there are 99 people in a room smoking cigarettes, does not make them healthier nor brighter than the 1 who does not smoke. Give your dog a choice between kibble and real food, and see what it chooses. Puppy mill owners never do this, never.

ooooooooooooooooopps Did I see an assumption on the end there

Puppy mill owners never do this, never

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:54 pm

I think a wk or two has been plenty of time for everyone to have their say. Then we just see people repeating themselves. Think we are about there.

Ezzy

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:01 pm

Going down this same old Rd over & over will always lead to the same DEAD END!

nitrex · Post by **nitrex** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:08 pm

I've been eating Chinese food for years...even spent 13 days in central China eating who knows what kind of meat. I think I still alive, healthy, and my wife says quit handsome. I guess that proves my dog can eat the Chinese food and still get it done in the field. Hope you can keep up!

Nitrex

claybuster_aa · Post by **claybuster_aa** » Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:54 am

MonsterDad wrote:...
I am sure some food brands use chicken and chicken by products imported from China, as well as vitamins. ...

Doubtful. Vitamins maybe, but chicken, chicken meal, and chicken by-product meal are so abundant in the US it would seem very unlikely a company would go overseas for those ingredients. The Chinese got busted on adding in some melamine into some products working as an 'artificial' protein booster, which in turn was making some animals sick and caused some deaths. This was most likely done because it is the protein content which brings in the most money, so if the product can appear to contain more protein, it will yield a higher cost. In this scenario, it would be unfair to assume imported chicken products kill animals. Unscrupulous companies skimping here and adding there would be the danger, but not the actual chicken causing the problem.