Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by MonsterDad » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:26 am

pointstar wrote:the other 4% of the food is olive oil and gluten free oatmeal. The dog food is Blue Buff puppy chicken, the meat is cooked and can be anything, chicken, beef, pork, or venison also adding a little broth from the meats. ?
Muscle meat is very high in phosphorous and almost devoid of calcium. You will be messing up the mineral levels as well as balance if you do this.

I wouldn't approach it this way for a puppy.

Stay all dry until maturity. If you want to add a fresh protein then use green tripe rather than muscle meat.

Blue Buffalo make a food called Blue Wilderness if you would like a higher protein alternative.

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by pointstar » Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:51 am

Mountaineer wrote:Pretty sure Rooster Cogburn took a bag of corn dodgers when he went after Ned Pepper...that would speak highly of the value of corn.
When dogs are becoming sick or dying from some of the stuff that they are being fed, it's really not funny.....

At least in my opinion.

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by Angus » Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:59 am

pointstar wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:Pretty sure Rooster Cogburn took a bag of corn dodgers when he went after Ned Pepper...that would speak highly of the value of corn.
When dogs are becoming sick or dying from some of the stuff that they are being fed, it's really not funny.....

At least in my opinion.

What dogs are getting sick or dying from kibble food? Is it the corn or the Peas and potato's? :lol:

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by walkos5 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:07 am

Angus wrote:
pointstar wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:Pretty sure Rooster Cogburn took a bag of corn dodgers when he went after Ned Pepper...that would speak highly of the value of corn.
When dogs are becoming sick or dying from some of the stuff that they are being fed, it's really not funny.....

At least in my opinion.

What dogs are getting sick or dying from kibble food? Is it the corn or the Peas and potato's? :lol:
Its mostly the corn along with all of the wonderful additives used to keep those mystery meats from spoiling while it sits on store shelves for months.

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by Angus » Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:20 am

walkos5 wrote:
Its mostly the corn along with all of the wonderful additives used to keep those mystery meats from spoiling while it sits on store shelves for months.

Hmm. So dogs have a shorter than normal life because of those things; so there must be some proof somewhere to support that, right?

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by pointstar » Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:27 am

MonsterDad wrote:
pointstar wrote:the other 4% of the food is olive oil and gluten free oatmeal. The dog food is Blue Buff puppy chicken, the meat is cooked and can be anything, chicken, beef, pork, or venison also adding a little broth from the meats. ?
Muscle meat is very high in phosphorous and almost devoid of calcium. You will be messing up the mineral levels as well as balance if you do this.

I wouldn't approach it this way for a puppy.

Stay all dry until maturity. If you want to add a fresh protein then use green tripe rather than muscle meat.

Blue Buffalo make a food called Blue Wilderness if you would like a higher protein alternative.
Interesting, are corn, wheat, rice, barley, corn gluten residue and other non natural ingredients in kibble dog foods, actually supplying the required calcium to a puppy, or other canine natural food needs. Your claim also makes the direct inference that dry foods, by means of being dry food, without naming the brand and knowing the ingredients, true nutritional value and vitamin and mineral content of the dry food, that dry food by means of being dry food contains the right ingredients for healthy puppy development, this is clearly not so. Now dry food will contain calcium, which is typically derived from bone meal, another non natural canine food stuff, which is basically the leftover skeletons of animals in the slaughterhouses, ground to a meal. As said use of bone meal in animal feeds is of high concern as it has been linked to mad cow disease. https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=n ... +bone+meal http://live.wsj.com/video/mad-cow-case- ... 8BD1D54162

I feed Blue Buffalo puppy wilderness chicken, again along with fresh chicken, beef, pork or venison, oatmeal and olive oil and some meat broth. I know that it has been said that 99 percent of the people here feed inexpensive corn kibble, but that does not make it right.

If corn is so healthy for dogs, why is it not common in canned non kibble foods?

Answer, because the corn starch and gluten in corn is a binder in the kibbling process, which has to do with forming the pellets, not with the nutrition of the pellets themselves.

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by walkos5 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:34 am

Angus wrote:
walkos5 wrote:
Its mostly the corn along with all of the wonderful additives used to keep those mystery meats from spoiling while it sits on store shelves for months.

Hmm. So dogs have a shorter than normal life because of those things; so there must be some proof somewhere to support that, right?
Show me a kibble fed dog that made it to his mid twenties and I'll stock up on some cheap kibble?

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by Angus » Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:42 am

Starch is necessary for kibble. Your super blue food uses a different veggie source/s for the same result. Gluten is normally a protein booster. Your Thuper Therial Blue food also uses protein boosters from a different plant source. If you want to get into this conversation I suggest that you read up on amino acids and their relationship to proteins. On a structural level that the dog is actually going to benefit from, how is corn different from all of teh multiple veggie sources used in your kibble?

Canned food is mostly water.

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by Angus » Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:45 am

walkos5 wrote:
Angus wrote:
walkos5 wrote:
Its mostly the corn along with all of the wonderful additives used to keep those mystery meats from spoiling while it sits on store shelves for months.

Hmm. So dogs have a shorter than normal life because of those things; so there must be some proof somewhere to support that, right?
Show me a kibble fed dog that made it to his mid twenties and I'll stock up on some cheap kibble?
Why? That's not an average lifespan regardless of food. Show me a dog who lived into it's mid twenties eating raw and working hard everyday. If it even happens I would say it has more to do with genetics and lifestyle than raw vs. kibble.

Better arguments will make for a much better discussion where people can actually learn something. This whole "Mine is bigger than Yours" discussion is not very educational.

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by Labs4Me » Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:02 am

ACooper wrote:
pointstar wrote:
Sharon wrote:I didn't realize life was this complicated.:-)
In reality it is about a 50/50 mix, with a teaspoon of oatmeal and some olive oil and broth, so I figure the first two main ingredients to be 48%, could be 49%....Actually it is simple, though more complicated than feeding corn meal in a dog food bag.
I didn't realize olive oil was part of a canine natural diet? Why feed it?

Didn't you ever see a dog race to an olive tree, shake it, extract the fallen olives from the fallen leaves, express the oil from the olives, and lap it up? ;)

and someone obviously has no idea what "corn gluten meal" actually is :lol:

lifespan was previously addressed in another thread - and if a dog living into its 20's is proof of a superior diet I guess dogs should be vegan since Bramble lived to 27 :mrgreen:

it appears to be silly season.... is a permit required? or just the (unproven) ownership of one pet dog?

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by MonsterDad » Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:43 am

I know what corn gluten meal, it is a very cheap form of protein...not saying its necessarily bad but its what you use to keep the price down. It is very concentrated and very cheap.

It has also gained quite a reputation as an herbicide as well, makes you feel good about feeding it, :roll:

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by ACooper » Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:54 am

MonsterDad wrote:I know what corn gluten meal, it is a very cheap form of protein...not saying its necessarily bad but its what you use to keep the price down. It is very concentrated and very cheap.

It has also gained quite a reputation as an herbicide as well, makes you feel good about feeding it, :roll:

"Corn gluten meal (CGM) is a natural substitute for synthetic pre-emergence herbicides. Pre-emergence herbicides attack seeds while they're still in the ground, before the seedlings emerge from the soil. CGM is a by-product of commercial corn milling that contains the protein fraction of the corn. Its use poses no health risk to people or animals. In fact, because it is 60% protein, corn gluten meal is used as feed for cattle, poultry, fish, and dogs. In addition to the 60% protein, corn gluten meal is 10% nitrogen, by weight." :roll:

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by walkos5 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:07 am

Angus wrote:Why? That's not an average lifespan regardless of food. Show me a dog who lived into it's mid twenties eating raw and working hard everyday. If it even happens I would say it has more to do with genetics and lifestyle than raw vs. kibble. Better arguments will make for a much better discussion where people can actually learn something. This whole "Mine is bigger than Yours" discussion is not very educational.
And where did you get your stats on longevity of a given species of dog? And who did the study and on what dogs? If you would like people to learn then please provide us with information we can use. Why are people dying in this country in their 40s and 50s? Is it all bad genetics. Dogs also need a good diet for longevity...

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by ACooper » Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:13 am

walkos5 wrote:
Angus wrote:Why? That's not an average lifespan regardless of food. Show me a dog who lived into it's mid twenties eating raw and working hard everyday. If it even happens I would say it has more to do with genetics and lifestyle than raw vs. kibble. Better arguments will make for a much better discussion where people can actually learn something. This whole "Mine is bigger than Yours" discussion is not very educational.
And where did you get your stats on longevity of a given species of dog? And who did the study and on what dogs? If you would like people to learn then please provide us with information we can use. Why are people dying in this country in their 40s and 50s? Is it all bad genetics. Dogs also need a good diet for longevity...

It's funny that you would ask for stats.

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by Labs4Me » Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:25 am

ACooper wrote:
walkos5 wrote:
Angus wrote:Why? That's not an average lifespan regardless of food. Show me a dog who lived into it's mid twenties eating raw and working hard everyday. If it even happens I would say it has more to do with genetics and lifestyle than raw vs. kibble. Better arguments will make for a much better discussion where people can actually learn something. This whole "Mine is bigger than Yours" discussion is not very educational.
And where did you get your stats on longevity of a given species of dog? And who did the study and on what dogs? If you would like people to learn then please provide us with information we can use. Why are people dying in this country in their 40s and 50s? Is it all bad genetics. Dogs also need a good diet for longevity...

It's funny that you would ask for stats.

+1

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by Angus » Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:46 am

walkos5 wrote:
Angus wrote:Why? That's not an average lifespan regardless of food. Show me a dog who lived into it's mid twenties eating raw and working hard everyday. If it even happens I would say it has more to do with genetics and lifestyle than raw vs. kibble. Better arguments will make for a much better discussion where people can actually learn something. This whole "Mine is bigger than Yours" discussion is not very educational.
And where did you get your stats on longevity of a given species of dog? And who did the study and on what dogs? If you would like people to learn then please provide us with information we can use. Why are people dying in this country in their 40s and 50s? Is it all bad genetics. Dogs also need a good diet for longevity...

You are the one making the claims. The burden of proof is on you. 8)

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:07 pm

Nothing but BS come out of these guys mouth but they want proof & when it's given to them they dismiss it so why try or argue with those that don't really want to know. :roll:

That's the sign of a TRUE BSer!! :D
Last edited by Vonzeppelinkennels on Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by Labs4Me » Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:10 pm

walkos5 wrote: And where did you get your stats on longevity of a given species of dog?
Breed not species. Try the June 2006 issue of Research in Veterinary Science and look for a study co-authored by Keith Murphy, Kimberly A. Greer and
Sarah Canterberry. 718 dogs from 77 breeds. (average lifespan decreases with the size of the dog, btw, with toy breeds, on average, living twice as long as giant breeds)
walkos5 wrote:Why are people dying in this country in their 40s and 50s?
People in every country and every generation have died in their 40's and 50's. What exactly is your point here?
walkos5 wrote: Dogs also need a good diet for longevity...
Yet another of your beliefs with absolutely no empirical support. And how do you define "good diet" anyway? Is it the rice, lentils, and vegetables the 27 year old vegan border collie ate? The unspecified kibble the 24 year old beagle ate? The meals comprised 100% of leftovers the sheltie my mother's family had who lived to 22 ate? And I do mean 100% leftovers - my great depression raised grandparents were raising 6 kids post WWII and the dog got what was left after meals that could not be held back for another meal because their life experience taught them to be frugal and their circumstances almost required it anyway. Trust me, not a lot of meat in that dog's diet :lol:

Your fee fees aside, there is absolutely no evidence that commercial kibble is even less efficacious than raw feeding, much less deficient. I think you should consider moving on :roll:

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by ezzy333 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:04 pm

pointstar wrote:Interesting, the tab selected on the page is dog food products, and the page is for advanced 28/18 formula, but if you click the preceding tab which is great stories, then click back to the dog food products tab, there is no longer any link to the same page that you posted, thus the link is broken or the first page is bogus, this is the page that you come back too, and the initial food is not even there. http://www.proplan.com/dog-food-products/

I wonder if Purina is actively participating in this thread in some way. So is corn gluten good for dogs and puppies? well I'm not a vet, but corn gluten is used as a weed killer https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=n ... s&tbm=shop
Gluten is not a weed killer. If you spread it liberally on the ground there is a chemical reaction that will suppress germination of some seeds. But that has nothing to do with it's feeding value. It has been found to be a good source of vegetable protein that covers some of the limiting amino acids of the animal protein in the feed. Together they work very well.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by Sharon » Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:41 pm

pointstar wrote:
Sharon wrote:I didn't realize life was this complicated.:-)
In reality it is about a 50/50 mix, with a teaspoon of oatmeal and some olive oil and broth, so I figure the first two main ingredients to be 48%, could be 49%....Actually it is simple, though more complicated than feeding corn meal in a dog food bag.
I was being sarcastic.:-) We need an emoticon for that.
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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by birddogger » Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:50 pm

walkos5 wrote:
Angus wrote:Why? That's not an average lifespan regardless of food. Show me a dog who lived into it's mid twenties eating raw and working hard everyday. If it even happens I would say it has more to do with genetics and lifestyle than raw vs. kibble. Better arguments will make for a much better discussion where people can actually learn something. This whole "Mine is bigger than Yours" discussion is not very educational.
And where did you get your stats on longevity of a given species of dog? And who did the study and on what dogs? If you would like people to learn then please provide us with information we can use. Why are people dying in this country in their 40s and 50s? Is it all bad genetics. Dogs also need a good diet for longevity...
People and dogs are living longer than they ever have, on average.
If you think you can or if you think you can't, you are right either way

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by pointstar » Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:52 pm

Corn gluten is a natural weed killer... http://www.extension.umn.edu/yardandgar ... nmeal.html Corn gluten meal (CGM) is a natural substitute for synthetic pre-emergence herbicides. Pre-emergence herbicides attack seeds while they're still in the ground, before the seedlings emerge from the soil. CGM is a by-product of commercial corn milling that contains the protein fraction of the corn. Its use poses no health risk to people or animals. In fact, because it is 60% protein, corn gluten meal is used as feed for cattle, poultry, fish, and dogs. In addition to the 60% protein, corn gluten meal is 10% nitrogen, by weight.

The use of corn gluten meal as an herbicide was discovered during turfgrass disease research conducted at Iowa State University. CGM was observed to prevent grass seeds from sprouting. Further research has shown that it also effectively prevents other seeds from sprouting, including seeds from many weeds such as crabgrass, chickweed, and even dandelions.

Corn gluten meal is effective only against seeds, not existing plants. Annual weeds that are already up and growing will not be killed by products made of corn gluten meal. They'll die on their own, though, by the end of autumn. But most of the seeds they produce later in the season shouldn't sprout - provided you've applied the CGM properly and at the correct time. Crabgrass, foxtail, purslane, and prostrate pigweed are examples of annual weeds found in lawns.

Existing perennial weeds such as quackgrass, plantain, and dandelions won't be damaged by CGM, either. And, they'll still come back from one year to the next because their roots survive most winters. What corn gluten meal will do is stop the seeds they shed each summer, so the population of these particular weeds won't increase. In fact, because some will die of "natural" causes, their numbers should actually decrease after several years of consistent CGM use.

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:56 pm

pointstar wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:Pretty sure Rooster Cogburn took a bag of corn dodgers when he went after Ned Pepper...that would speak highly of the value of corn.
When dogs are becoming sick or dying from some of the stuff that they are being fed, it's really not funny.....

At least in my opinion.
Using a dog as a camoed agenda carrier is really not funny either but, I agree, a dog made sick with MegaE from being fed bones, as but one example, is neither funny nor a possibility to ignore...if Dog trumps Agenda, that is.

However, one can not ignore that Rooster's rations equated to Ned becoming less lucky.
I read that on the Internet.

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by pointstar » Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:59 pm

Angus wrote:Starch is necessary for kibble. Your super blue food uses a different veggie source/s for the same result. Gluten is normally a protein booster. Your Thuper Therial Blue food also uses protein boosters from a different plant source. If you want to get into this conversation I suggest that you read up on amino acids and their relationship to proteins. On a structural level that the dog is actually going to benefit from, how is corn different from all of teh multiple veggie sources used in your kibble?

Canned food is mostly water.
Veggie proteins are cheaper than meat proteins, simple economics, the reality is also that veggie protein chains are not as long as meat protein chains and DO NOT contain as many essential amino acids.
All Protein Isn’t Alike

Some of the protein you eat contains all the amino acids needed to build new proteins. This kind is called complete protein. Animal sources of protein tend to be complete. Other protein sources lack one or more “essential” amino acids—that is, amino acids that the body can’t make from scratch or create by modifying another amino acid. Called incomplete proteins, these usually come from fruits, vegetables, grains, and nuts.

Vegetarians need to be aware of this. To get all the amino acids needed to make new protein—and thus to keep the body’s systems in good shape—people who don’t eat meat, fish, poultry, eggs, or dairy products should eat a variety of protein-containing foods each day.

Source, the Harvard school of public health.....

So please take up your lame and ignorant argument with them.

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:11 pm

walkos5 wrote:...Show me a kibble fed dog that made it to his mid twenties and I'll stock up on some cheap kibble?

Your first dog is...3 years old at present, right?

You believe that the lifespan of birddogs, English setters to single out one breed, can be in the realm of a legitimate 25 years by following your regimen of feeding?

I need to get this stuff down and straight....I've had some fellas tell me you can't possibly exist with such a refusal to see past your own views.
Kinda like a snake-handler that does not milk their serpents....it happens, but is very odd.

As to your question to another...yes, genetics matters in the largest measure re a dog's age span.
However, I do expect that if could we convince our dogs to ease up a bit on the pace, that would help them, as would removing all the barb wire in every field, trucks on every road and....bones, w/o commonsense, in every food bowl.

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by pointstar » Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:21 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
walkos5 wrote:...Show me a kibble fed dog that made it to his mid twenties and I'll stock up on some cheap kibble?

Your first dog is...3 years old at present, right?

You believe that the lifespan of birddogs, English setters to single out one breed, can be in the realm of a legitimate 25 years by following your regimen of feeding?

I need to get this stuff down and straight....I've had some fellas tell me you can't possibly exist with such a refusal to see past your own views.
Kinda like a snake-handler that does not milk their serpents....it happens, but is very odd.

As to your question to another...yes, genetics matters in the largest measure re a dog's age span.
However, I do expect that if could we convince our dogs to ease up a bit on the pace, that would help them, as would removing all the barb wire in every field, trucks on every road and....bones, w/o commonsense, in every food bowl.
So mammals that get less "pace" and exercise live longer? is that what you are saying?

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by Angus » Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:21 pm

pointstar wrote:
Angus wrote:Starch is necessary for kibble. Your super blue food uses a different veggie source/s for the same result. Gluten is normally a protein booster. Your Thuper Therial Blue food also uses protein boosters from a different plant source. If you want to get into this conversation I suggest that you read up on amino acids and their relationship to proteins. On a structural level that the dog is actually going to benefit from, how is corn different from all of teh multiple veggie sources used in your kibble?

Canned food is mostly water.
Veggie proteins are cheaper than meat proteins, simple economics, the reality is also that veggie protein chains are not as long as meat protein chains and DO NOT contain as many essential amino acids.
All Protein Isn’t Alike

Some of the protein you eat contains all the amino acids needed to build new proteins. This kind is called complete protein. Animal sources of protein tend to be complete. Other protein sources lack one or more “essential” amino acids—that is, amino acids that the body can’t make from scratch or create by modifying another amino acid. Called incomplete proteins, these usually come from fruits, vegetables, grains, and nuts.

Vegetarians need to be aware of this. To get all the amino acids needed to make new protein—and thus to keep the body’s systems in good shape—people who don’t eat meat, fish, poultry, eggs, or dairy products should eat a variety of protein-containing foods each day.

Source, the Harvard school of public health.....

So please take up your lame and ignorant argument with them.
You're not telling me anything that I didn't already know. Except I do question your source, you may want to cite it. Seems that your explanation to "Prove your point" is way over simplified. Boy, i bet kibble makers (who run a business and need to make money) don't know a thing about amino acids, or the best combination of aquatic, land, plant combos for a dog (Omnivore).

You also tell me (in another persons words) that incomplete proteins are found in the kibble that you feed. Then you add more meat, plant, and water to that food while not giving your pup enough essential, balanced nutrients.

So it seems that my lame argument is still valid and all you managed to do is google something, parrot it, and not even recognize or absorb anything you googled.

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by Angus » Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:29 pm

pointstar wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:
walkos5 wrote:...Show me a kibble fed dog that made it to his mid twenties and I'll stock up on some cheap kibble?

Your first dog is...3 years old at present, right?

You believe that the lifespan of birddogs, English setters to single out one breed, can be in the realm of a legitimate 25 years by following your regimen of feeding?

I need to get this stuff down and straight....I've had some fellas tell me you can't possibly exist with such a refusal to see past your own views.
Kinda like a snake-handler that does not milk their serpents....it happens, but is very odd.

As to your question to another...yes, genetics matters in the largest measure re a dog's age span.
However, I do expect that if could we convince our dogs to ease up a bit on the pace, that would help them, as would removing all the barb wire in every field, trucks on every road and....bones, w/o commonsense, in every food bowl.
So mammals that get less "pace" and exercise live longer? is that what you are saying?
If that dog in your avatar is really yours I am willing to bet that it's a bench/couch breeding. You have no clue what is involved with a performance/hunting dog, and the requirements needed to maintain their performance, or what they run into out there.

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:31 pm

pointstar wrote:So mammals that get less "pace" and exercise live longer? is that what you are saying?

"Mammals"?....hmmm, maybe there is indeed a deeper and more dastardly agenda here.

I believe that exercise and being fit both serve as a factor in the Life of a dog and in living that Life.
I believe that some birddogs run hard-er or with a reckless abandon that can lead to bad things happening to good dogs despite what filled their food bowl.
I know I would never want you anywhere near my birddogs.....bank that.

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by pointstar » Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:34 pm

Angus wrote:
pointstar wrote:
Angus wrote:Starch is necessary for kibble. Your super blue food uses a different veggie source/s for the same result. Gluten is normally a protein booster. Your Thuper Therial Blue food also uses protein boosters from a different plant source. If you want to get into this conversation I suggest that you read up on amino acids and their relationship to proteins. On a structural level that the dog is actually going to benefit from, how is corn different from all of teh multiple veggie sources used in your kibble?

Canned food is mostly water.
Veggie proteins are cheaper than meat proteins, simple economics, the reality is also that veggie protein chains are not as long as meat protein chains and DO NOT contain as many essential amino acids.
All Protein Isn’t Alike

Some of the protein you eat contains all the amino acids needed to build new proteins. This kind is called complete protein. Animal sources of protein tend to be complete. Other protein sources lack one or more “essential” amino acids—that is, amino acids that the body can’t make from scratch or create by modifying another amino acid. Called incomplete proteins, these usually come from fruits, vegetables, grains, and nuts.

Vegetarians need to be aware of this. To get all the amino acids needed to make new protein—and thus to keep the body’s systems in good shape—people who don’t eat meat, fish, poultry, eggs, or dairy products should eat a variety of protein-containing foods each day.

Source, the Harvard school of public health.....

So please take up your lame and ignorant argument with them.
You're not telling me anything that I didn't already know. Except I do question your source, you may want to cite it. Seems that your explanation to "Prove your point" is way over simplified. Boy, i bet kibble makers (who run a business and need to make money) don't know a thing about amino acids, or the best combination of aquatic, land, plant combos for a dog (Omnivore).

You also tell me (in another persons words) that incomplete proteins are found in the kibble that you feed. Then you add more meat, plant, and water to that food while not giving your pup enough essential, balanced nutrients.

So it seems that my lame argument is still valid and all you managed to do is google something, parrot it, and not even recognize or absorb anything you googled.
I did cite the source, it's the Harvard school of public health, please argue with them-----> http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionso ... ull-story/

Corn, wheat, and rice protein chains, and the byproducts of them are always shorter than animal based protein chains, this may mean nothing in the short term, however over a lifetime the significance is evident, noting that during the growing years puppyhood, protein for optimal growth is of the highest importance.

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by pointstar » Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:37 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
pointstar wrote:So mammals that get less "pace" and exercise live longer? is that what you are saying?

"Mammals"?....hmmm, maybe there is indeed a deeper and more dastardly agenda here.

I believe that exercise and being fit both serve as a factor in the Life of a dog and in living that Life.
I believe that some birddogs run hard-er or with a reckless abandon that can lead to bad things happening to good dogs despite what filled their food bowl.
I know I would never want you anywhere near my birddogs.....bank that.
Exercise is also of prime importance to a human dog handler, did you do any today?

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by Angus » Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:37 pm

pointstar wrote:
I did cite the source, it's the Harvard school of public health, please argue with them-----> http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionso ... ull-story/

Corn, wheat, and rice protein chains, and the byproducts of them are always shorter than animal based protein chains, this may mean nothing in the short term, however over a lifetime the significance is evident, noting that during the growing years puppyhood, protein for optimal growth is of the highest importance.
You stated your source, you didn't cite it. :wink:

So you better stop feeding your dog rice and oats.

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by pointstar » Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:42 pm

As to your question to another...yes, genetics matters in the largest measure re a dog's age span.
However, I do expect that if could we convince our dogs to ease up a bit on the pace, that would help them, as would removing all the barb wire in every field, trucks on every road and....bones, w/o commonsense, in every food bowl.[/quote]

So mammals that get less "pace" and exercise live longer? is that what you are saying?[/quote]

If that dog in your avatar is really yours I am willing to bet that it's a bench/couch breeding. You have no clue what is involved with a performance/hunting dog, and the requirements needed to maintain their performance, or what they run into out there.[/quote]

Did you really take that lopsided out of focus from above, too lazy to stoop to dog level photo of your dog? I bet that you did. Here are some more photos of my girl,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/105281199@ ... 820434703/

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by walkos5 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:46 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
walkos5 wrote:...Show me a kibble fed dog that made it to his mid twenties and I'll stock up on some cheap kibble?

Your first dog is...3 years old at present, right?

You believe that the lifespan of birddogs, English setters to single out one breed, can be in the realm of a legitimate 25 years by following your regimen of feeding?

I need to get this stuff down and straight....I've had some fellas tell me you can't possibly exist with such a refusal to see past your own views.
Kinda like a snake-handler that does not milk their serpents....it happens, but is very odd.

As to your question to another...yes, genetics matters in the largest measure re a dog's age span.
However, I do expect that if could we convince our dogs to ease up a bit on the pace, that would help them, as would removing all the barb wire in every field, trucks on every road and....bones, w/o commonsense, in every food bowl.
Here's some food for thought no pun intended, I can eat everything I feed my dog without harm, cooked of course because our digestive system and ability to handle bacteria is different and I don't have the teeth to handle the bones, but basically every thing can be consumed. So how about we put the food you kibble feeders use for your dogs in a big bowl and let you have at it. Doesn't sound so appetizing now does it? Nor does eating that same kibble day after day. Survive not thrive!!!

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by pointstar » Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:49 pm

walkos5 wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:
walkos5 wrote:...Show me a kibble fed dog that made it to his mid twenties and I'll stock up on some cheap kibble?

Your first dog is...3 years old at present, right?

You believe that the lifespan of birddogs, English setters to single out one breed, can be in the realm of a legitimate 25 years by following your regimen of feeding?

I need to get this stuff down and straight....I've had some fellas tell me you can't possibly exist with such a refusal to see past your own views.
Kinda like a snake-handler that does not milk their serpents....it happens, but is very odd.

As to your question to another...yes, genetics matters in the largest measure re a dog's age span.
However, I do expect that if could we convince our dogs to ease up a bit on the pace, that would help them, as would removing all the barb wire in every field, trucks on every road and....bones, w/o commonsense, in every food bowl.
Here's some food for thought no pun intended, I can eat everything I feed my dog without harm, cooked of course because our digestive system and ability to handle bacteria is different and I don't have the teeth to handle the bones, but basically every thing can be consumed. So how about we put the food you kibble feeders use for your dogs in a big bowl and let you have at it. Doesn't sound so appetizing now does it? Nor does eating that same kibble day after day. Survive not thrive!!!

AAA

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:52 pm

pointstar wrote:...Exercise is also of prime importance to a human dog handler, did you do any today?
Yep, just returned from birdhunting......SW Pa. is not exactly flat :D and from 8-ish to 1-ish I was out and about following the tails of 4 different birddogs....3 field setters and 1 pointer.
Could I do more re my personal exercise?, sure could.
Should I have done more exercising in the past to help me thru my 61+ years today?...yes, I should have. :oops:

Not sure of your point with that comment any more than getting the drift of any of your dog(or mammal) food rants and agendas...perhaps, you should consider changing your moniker to "pointless", as a nod to reality. :idea:

This time of season..."human dog handler" is better described as...Birdhunter.
Not too surprised with your choice of description though.....I expect the difference eludes you.
Last edited by Mountaineer on Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by Angus » Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:52 pm

pointstar wrote:As to your question to another...yes, genetics matters in the largest measure re a dog's age span.
However, I do expect that if could we convince our dogs to ease up a bit on the pace, that would help them, as would removing all the barb wire in every field, trucks on every road and....bones, w/o commonsense, in every food bowl.
So mammals that get less "pace" and exercise live longer? is that what you are saying?[/quote]

If that dog in your avatar is really yours I am willing to bet that it's a bench/couch breeding. You have no clue what is involved with a performance/hunting dog, and the requirements needed to maintain their performance, or what they run into out there.[/quote]

Did you really take that lopsided out of focus from above, too lazy to stoop to dog level photo of your dog? I bet that you did. Here are some more photos of my girl,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/105281199@ ... 820434703/[/quote]


Your dog sure looks purty up against a park bench.

My pic is from a cell phone. Sorry it doesn't take super purty pics. we could start another thread to post hunting pics if you'd like. :lol:

SO what does this have to do with your mix of crappy rice and oatmeal infested kibble mix food?

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by pointstar » Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:53 pm

Angus wrote:
pointstar wrote:
I did cite the source, it's the Harvard school of public health, please argue with them-----> http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionso ... ull-story/

Corn, wheat, and rice protein chains, and the byproducts of them are always shorter than animal based protein chains, this may mean nothing in the short term, however over a lifetime the significance is evident, noting that during the growing years puppyhood, protein for optimal growth is of the highest importance.
You stated your source, you didn't cite it. :wink:

So you better stop feeding your dog rice and oats.
My girls food is between 60 and 70 percent meat..... 50% comes from the supermarket, hand picked by me.

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by Angus » Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:56 pm

[quote="walkos5]

Here's some food for thought no pun intended, I can eat everything I feed my dog without harm, cooked of course because our digestive system and ability to handle bacteria is different and I don't have the teeth to handle the bones, but basically every thing can be consumed. So how about we put the food you kibble feeders use for your dogs in a big bowl and let you have at it. Doesn't sound so appetizing now does it? Nor does eating that same kibble day after day. Survive not thrive!!![/quote]


I could eat my dogs kibble as well if needed to. What kind of argument is that? World coming to an end. do not eat the dog food the FDA didn't approve it for human consumption... :roll:

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by pointstar » Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:57 pm

Angus wrote:
pointstar wrote:As to your question to another...yes, genetics matters in the largest measure re a dog's age span.
However, I do expect that if could we convince our dogs to ease up a bit on the pace, that would help them, as would removing all the barb wire in every field, trucks on every road and....bones, w/o commonsense, in every food bowl.
So mammals that get less "pace" and exercise live longer? is that what you are saying?
If that dog in your avatar is really yours I am willing to bet that it's a bench/couch breeding. You have no clue what is involved with a performance/hunting dog, and the requirements needed to maintain their performance, or what they run into out there.[/quote]

Did you really take that lopsided out of focus from above, too lazy to stoop to dog level photo of your dog? I bet that you did. Here are some more photos of my girl,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/105281199@ ... 820434703/[/quote]


Your dog sure looks purty up against a park bench.

My pic is from a cell phone. Sorry it doesn't take super purty pics. we could start another thread to post hunting pics if you'd like. :lol:

SO what does this have to do with your mix of crappy rice and oatmeal infested kibble mix food?[/quote]

Again my dogs food is between 60 and 70 percent meat........

Yea, she sure does look good in that photo huh, you may feel free to open your own Flicker account of your cell phone dog photos.

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by Angus » Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:58 pm

pointstar wrote:
Angus wrote:
pointstar wrote:
I did cite the source, it's the Harvard school of public health, please argue with them-----> http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionso ... ull-story/

Corn, wheat, and rice protein chains, and the byproducts of them are always shorter than animal based protein chains, this may mean nothing in the short term, however over a lifetime the significance is evident, noting that during the growing years puppyhood, protein for optimal growth is of the highest importance.
You stated your source, you didn't cite it. :wink:

So you better stop feeding your dog rice and oats.
My girls food is between 60 and 70 percent meat..... 50% comes from the supermarket, hand picked by me.
I bet your dog just loves you knowing that her food comes from the grocery store. :P

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by Angus » Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:01 pm

pointstar wrote:
Angus wrote:
pointstar wrote:As to your question to another...yes, genetics matters in the largest measure re a dog's age span.
However, I do expect that if could we convince our dogs to ease up a bit on the pace, that would help them, as would removing all the barb wire in every field, trucks on every road and....bones, w/o commonsense, in every food bowl.
So mammals that get less "pace" and exercise live longer? is that what you are saying?
If that dog in your avatar is really yours I am willing to bet that it's a bench/couch breeding. You have no clue what is involved with a performance/hunting dog, and the requirements needed to maintain their performance, or what they run into out there.
Did you really take that lopsided out of focus from above, too lazy to stoop to dog level photo of your dog? I bet that you did. Here are some more photos of my girl,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/105281199@ ... 820434703/[/quote]


Your dog sure looks purty up against a park bench.

My pic is from a cell phone. Sorry it doesn't take super purty pics. we could start another thread to post hunting pics if you'd like. :lol:

SO what does this have to do with your mix of crappy rice and oatmeal infested kibble mix food?[/quote]

Again my dogs food is between 60 and 70 percent meat........

Yea, she sure does look good in that photo huh, you may feel free to open your own Flicker account of your cell phone dog photos.[/quote]

Like I already stated, I'd be happy to share photos in another thread. While I will not give you access to my photobucket, I will certainly post up, with birds even.

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:11 pm

walkos5 wrote:...Here's some food for thought no pun intended, I can eat everything I feed my dog without harm, cooked of course because our digestive system and ability to handle bacteria is different and I don't have the teeth to handle the bones, but basically every thing can be consumed. So how about we put the food you kibble feeders use for your dogs in a big bowl and let you have at it. Doesn't sound so appetizing now does it? Nor does eating that same kibble day after day. Survive not thrive!!!
I do think humans are blessed, or cursed, with a desire for enjoyment in eating.
That can preclude many foods, especially in this country, based upon everything from appearance to texture and beyond that others might fall upon greedily.
My mother loved squirrel brains...I never acquired the taste.
Yet, she never held that against me or sought to hold her choice and preference over my head as it being somehow superior.
She was a good person.
While I expect that in some areas and times, dog kibble would be fallen upon in that greedy nature...perhaps and sadly, even today.
But most of us have worked hard to be able to not eat kibble...though I expect if push came to shove, many of us would be thankful for the simplest of rations to sustain Life.
Your're correct though, in your absurd stretch for relevance,....I, personally, would eschew dog kibble.
My one setter Emerson though, just fell upon his bowl of ProPlan with gusto...I'm darn lucky to even get the bowl back. :idea:

Your comments of "appetizing" and "the same ...day after day" likely helps, again, make your biases clear.....and, perhaps, that Brit weigh :idea: :D 50#.

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by Labs4Me » Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:14 pm

pointstar wrote:
Angus wrote:
pointstar wrote:
I did cite the source, it's the Harvard school of public health, please argue with them-----> http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionso ... ull-story/

Corn, wheat, and rice protein chains, and the byproducts of them are always shorter than animal based protein chains, this may mean nothing in the short term, however over a lifetime the significance is evident, noting that during the growing years puppyhood, protein for optimal growth is of the highest importance.
You stated your source, you didn't cite it. :wink:

So you better stop feeding your dog rice and oats.
My girls food is between 60 and 70 percent meat..... 50% comes from the supermarket, hand picked by me.

My dogs' kibble has a animal protein % higher than that. But that's probably because Dr Tim doesn't inflate his protein % by using legumes 8) Diamond EA has a higher % of animal protein as well. Imagine that.

Your posts here demonstrate that the marketing of dog food really has utilized the quip attributed to PT Barnum :roll:

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by pointstar » Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:49 pm

My dogs' kibble has a animal protein % higher than that. But that's probably because Dr Tim doesn't inflate his protein % by using legumes 8) Diamond EA has a higher % of animal protein as well. Imagine that.

Your posts here demonstrate that the marketing of dog food really has utilized the quip attributed to PT Barnum :roll:[/quote]

Dr Tims is 35% protein, http://drtims.com/momentum/

So keep dreaming

CIAO

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by Angus » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:01 pm

pointstar wrote:My dogs' kibble has a animal protein % higher than that. But that's probably because Dr Tim doesn't inflate his protein % by using legumes 8) Diamond EA has a higher % of animal protein as well. Imagine that.

Your posts here demonstrate that the marketing of dog food really has utilized the quip attributed to PT Barnum :roll:
Dr Tims is 35% protein, http://drtims.com/momentum/

So keep dreaming

CIAO[/quote]

Again your ignorance shows. Though i'm just going to laugh at this one because i have nothing at this point. :(

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by Labs4Me » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:34 pm

Wow. Just.... wow :|

What % of the total protein is meat/animal based, genius?

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by pointstar » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:42 pm

I feed Blue Buffalo wilderness, it's animal protein content is higher than Dr. Tims, though Dr Tims seems to be a lot better then Purina Pro Plan.

Blue Buffalos rating here is a 5 http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food- ... rness-dry/

Dr Tims rating is also a 5 star http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food- ... -dog-food/

Top 5 ingredients of Dr Tims are, Chicken meal, brown rice flour, chicken fat, oat flour, dried beet pulp,

Blue Buffalo's top 5 ingredients are, Deboned chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, peas, tapioca starch

Which is why my dog eats Blue and cooked meat.......

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by SetterNut » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:47 pm

What is the deal with all this BS on food.

This is a site that is full of people that care very much about thier dogs.
Some food may be better for some dogs. But its not like PRO Plan is designed to kill dogs :roll:

Go hunt with your dogs, ...... geez
Steve

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Re: Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

Post by pointstar » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:49 pm

Labs4Me wrote:Wow. Just.... wow :|

What % of the total protein is meat/animal based, genius?
That would depend on the meat of the day as it could be chicken, pork, beef, or venison. They all have different fat to protein ratios. Truth be known, you are playing a numbers game, as chicken and venison has been on canine menus for millions of years longer than dry kibble with it's marketing numbers.

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