Is this good? 48% dog food and 48% meat

[pointstar]

What is the deal with all this BS on food.

This is a site that is full of people that care very much about thier dogs.
Some food may be better for some dogs. But its not like PRO Plan is designed to kill dogs :roll:

Go hunt with your dogs, ...... geez

No disrespect, but this site is also full of people that believe that dogs do better on a high grain diet. I find it amazing that so many people with hunting dogs, can't actually hunt any meat for them....

But then there are hunters, and then there are hunters.

CIAO

[Labs4Me]

I feed Blue Buffalo wilderness, it's animal protein content is higher than Dr. Tims, though Dr Tims seems to be a lot better then Purina Pro Plan.

Blue Buffalos rating here is a 5 http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food- ... rness-dry/

Dr Tims rating is also a 5 star http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food- ... -dog-food/

Top 5 ingredients of Dr Tims are, Chicken meal, brown rice flour, chicken fat, oat flour, dried beet pulp,

Blue Buffalo's top 5 ingredients are, Deboned chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, peas, tapioca starch

Which is why my dog eats Blue and cooked meat.......

Actually, it's not. The animal protein in your kibble is around 64% and in Dr Tim's it is 94-96% and in Diamond EA it is 92%

There is a lot of protein in peas and alfalfa meal.

[Angus]

Wow. Just.... wow

What % of the total protein is meat/animal based, genius?

That would depend on the meat of the day as it could be chicken, pork, beef, or venison. They all have different fat to protein ratios. Truth be known, you are playing a numbers game, as chicken and venison has been on canine menus for millions of years longer than dry kibble with it's marketing numbers.

So you test each piece of meat for it's fat to protein ration then?

[Angus]

What is the deal with all this BS on food.

This is a site that is full of people that care very much about thier dogs.
Some food may be better for some dogs. But its not like PRO Plan is designed to kill dogs :roll:

Go hunt with your dogs, ...... geez

No disrespect, but this site is also full of people that believe that dogs do better on a high grain diet. I find it amazing that so many people with hunting dogs, can't actually hunt any meat for them....

But then there are hunters, and then there are hunters.

CIAO

Should the dog go hungry on the days when the hunt is not successful?

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

Yeah my dogs only point corn stocks!! I pick the corm for them & it really saves on ammo! :roll:

[Labs4Me]

All duck and goose is for human consumption All in it's a little too expensive to feed to my dogs

[Cajun Casey]

What is the deal with all this BS on food.

This is a site that is full of people that care very much about thier dogs.
Some food may be better for some dogs. But its not like PRO Plan is designed to kill dogs :roll:

Go hunt with your dogs, ...... geez

No disrespect, but this site is also full of people that believe that dogs do better on a high grain diet. I find it amazing that so many people with hunting dogs, can't actually hunt any meat for them....

But then there are hunters, and then there are hunters.

CIAO

Perphaps you should frequent a different site?

[ezzy333]

I can not believe that anyone that knows anything about formulating a product thinks they can tell the formula by reading an ingredient list. Think we have talked about it and explained it a hundred times on this forum over the years and every few months here comes someone else who hasn't taken the time to read the past posts and he comes up with the same mistakes as the last one did.

Like some of you have said, probably just too lazy to look it up.

Will some one explain what is meant by 48% food and 48% meat? Give me an example how you would do that if you were formulating the feed?

Ezzy

[pointstar]

I feed Blue Buffalo wilderness, it's animal protein content is higher than Dr. Tims, though Dr Tims seems to be a lot better then Purina Pro Plan.

Blue Buffalos rating here is a 5

Dr Tims rating is also a 5 star

Top 5 ingredients of Dr Tims are, Chicken meal, brown rice flour, chicken fat, oat flour, dried beet pulp,

Blue Buffalo's top 5 ingredients are, Deboned chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, peas, tapioca starch

Which is why my dog eats Blue and cooked meat.......

Actually, it's not. The animal protein in your kibble is around 64% and in Dr Tim's it is 94-96% and in Diamond EA it is 92%

There is a lot of protein in peas and alfalfa meal.

Whooly dufus, if a food was 94 to 96 percent protein that would mean that it was only 4 to 6 percent of both fats and carbohydrates combined.... You really need to check your facts....

The real content of Dr Tims Momentum Premium is here http://drtims.com/momentum/ Again Dr Tims Momentum is 35% protein, and 25% fat, while Blue Buffalo is 36% protein and 16% fat...... http://bluebuffalo.com/dog-food/wilderness-puppy

[pointstar]

I can not believe that anyone that knows anything about formulating a product thinks they can tell the formula by reading an ingredient list. Think we have talked about it and explained it a hundred times on this forum over the years and every few months here comes someone else who hasn't taken the time to read the past posts and he comes up with the same mistakes as the last one did.

Like some of you have said, probably just too lazy to look it up.

Will some one explain what is meant by 48% food and 48% meat? Give me an example how you would do that if you were formulating the feed?

Ezzy

The guaranteed analysis of the ingredients are listed as proteins, fats and carbs on their pages as well as on ratings pages, try Googling it, or you can click the links that have been provided. It's not really hard.

[Labs4Me]

I feed Blue Buffalo wilderness, it's animal protein content is higher than Dr. Tims, though Dr Tims seems to be a lot better then Purina Pro Plan.

Blue Buffalos rating here is a 5

Dr Tims rating is also a 5 star

Top 5 ingredients of Dr Tims are, Chicken meal, brown rice flour, chicken fat, oat flour, dried beet pulp,

Blue Buffalo's top 5 ingredients are, Deboned chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, peas, tapioca starch

Which is why my dog eats Blue and cooked meat.......

Actually, it's not. The animal protein in your kibble is around 64% and in Dr Tim's it is 94-96% and in Diamond EA it is 92%

There is a lot of protein in peas and alfalfa meal.

Whooly dufus, if a food was 94 to 96 percent protein that would mean that it was only 4 to 6 percent of both fats and carbohydrates combined.... You really need to check your facts....

The real content of Dr Tims Momentum Premium is here http://drtims.com/momentum/ Again Dr Tims Momentum is 35% protein, and 25% fat, while Blue Buffalo is 36% protein and 16% fat...... http://bluebuffalo.com/dog-food/wilderness-puppy

Of fer....

Look, of the 35% protein 94-96% of it comes from animal sources in Dr Tim's. Of the 36% protein 65% of it comes from animal sources in BBW.

I cannot believe that needed to be spelled out.

In the final analysis, you are paying 2x more for a food that has 25%-30% less meat/animal protein than the more popular feeds among sporting/hunting dog owners. An expensive bag of peas with a pretty bag and good marketing doesn't impress me much.

[pointstar]

Wrong again, as my dogs food contains 48% Blue Buffalo and 48^ real cooked meat of various sources. Thus your numbers only hold up if you are feeding only bagged dog food, which I never do.

Feel free to inform the FBI, CIA, Humane Society, and the NSA that I am feeding my dog 48% Blue Buffalo wilderness dry food, mixed with 48% real cooked meat, with a small amount of gluten free oatmeal and meat broth. Tell them that I am not going to stop either.

PS My dog just ate a pork meatball the size of a tennis ball....Tell them that too...!

Next.

[ezzy333]

I can not believe that anyone that knows anything about formulating a product thinks they can tell the formula by reading an ingredient list. Think we have talked about it and explained it a hundred times on this forum over the years and every few months here comes someone else who hasn't taken the time to read the past posts and he comes up with the same mistakes as the last one did.

Like some of you have said, probably just too lazy to look it up.

Will some one explain what is meant by 48% food and 48% meat? Give me an example how you would do that if you were formulating the feed?

Ezzy

The guaranteed analysis of the ingredients are listed as proteins, fats and carbs on their pages as well as on ratings pages, try Googling it, or you can click the links that have been provided. It's not really hard.

Quaranteed analysis has little to do with an ingredient list.

[SetterNut]

What is the deal with all this BS on food.

This is a site that is full of people that care very much about thier dogs.
Some food may be better for some dogs. But its not like PRO Plan is designed to kill dogs :roll:

Go hunt with your dogs, ...... geez

No disrespect, but this site is also full of people that believe that dogs do better on a high grain diet. I find it amazing that so many people with hunting dogs, can't actually hunt any meat for them....

But then there are hunters, and then there are hunters.

CIAO

You need help.

[slistoe]

I feed Blue Buffalo wilderness, it's animal protein content is higher than Dr. Tims, though Dr Tims seems to be a lot better then Purina Pro Plan.

Blue Buffalos rating here is a 5 http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food- ... rness-dry/

Dr Tims rating is also a 5 star http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food- ... -dog-food/

Top 5 ingredients of Dr Tims are, Chicken meal, brown rice flour, chicken fat, oat flour, dried beet pulp,

Blue Buffalo's top 5 ingredients are, Deboned chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, peas, tapioca starch

Which is why my dog eats Blue and cooked meat.......

Actually, it's not. The animal protein in your kibble is around 64% and in Dr Tim's it is 94-96% and in Diamond EA it is 92%

There is a lot of protein in peas and alfalfa meal.

Why are peas a favourite feed source for cattle - high protein.
Funny how using corn gluten meal is taboo and peas/alfalfa isn't.

[slistoe]

I feed Blue Buffalo wilderness, it's animal protein content is higher than Dr. Tims, though Dr Tims seems to be a lot better then Purina Pro Plan.

Blue Buffalos rating here is a 5

Dr Tims rating is also a 5 star

Top 5 ingredients of Dr Tims are, Chicken meal, brown rice flour, chicken fat, oat flour, dried beet pulp,

Blue Buffalo's top 5 ingredients are, Deboned chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, peas, tapioca starch

Which is why my dog eats Blue and cooked meat.......

Actually, it's not. The animal protein in your kibble is around 64% and in Dr Tim's it is 94-96% and in Diamond EA it is 92%

There is a lot of protein in peas and alfalfa meal.

Whooly dufus, if a food was 94 to 96 percent protein that would mean that it was only 4 to 6 percent of both fats and carbohydrates combined.... You really need to check your facts....

The real content of Dr Tims Momentum Premium is here http://drtims.com/momentum/ Again Dr Tims Momentum is 35% protein, and 25% fat, while Blue Buffalo is 36% protein and 16% fat...... http://bluebuffalo.com/dog-food/wilderness-puppy

No one can be this stupid and still type a complete sentence without doing so on purpose.

[ACooper]

.

[Mountaineer]

...PS My dog just ate a pork meatball the size of a tennis ball

Of most importance....6s or 4s for that meatball swatting?

[pointstar]

What is the deal with all this BS on food.

This is a site that is full of people that care very much about thier dogs.
Some food may be better for some dogs. But its not like PRO Plan is designed to kill dogs :roll:

Go hunt with your dogs, ...... geez

No disrespect, but this site is also full of people that believe that dogs do better on a high grain diet. I find it amazing that so many people with hunting dogs, can't actually hunt any meat for them....

But then there are hunters, and then there are hunters.

CIAO

You need help.

One whitetail or moose goes a long way to feed a dog and it's family Steve, all one needs is a freezer.

PS. People who tie up birds, or clip their wings so they can't fly, (this is recommended here) and plant them in a field, then take their dog to that part of the field, so that their sad "bleep" excuses for hunting dogs can find them......Well some would say that these people are the ones who need help.

A real hunting dog feeds itself, and it's owner and family all.

[Mountaineer]

One whitetail or moose goes a long way to feed a dog and it's family Steve, all one needs is a freezer.

PS. People who tie up birds, or clip their wings so they can't fly, (this is recommended here) and plant them in a field, then take their dog to that part of the field, so that their sad "bleep" excuses for hunting dogs can find them......Well some would say that these people are the ones who need help.

A real hunting dog feeds itself, and it's owner and family all.

It's taken awhile but...quack, quack.

[pointstar]

You are just throwing lame insults, for the purpose of frustrating me, and thus causing me to return the same lame insults, then when I do, I get kicked for behaving like you. I am familiar with the tactic, and quite frankly, it's beneath me.

PS. If you have anything to add to a nutritional discussion, you may add it now.

CIAO

[Cajun Casey]

You are just throwing lame insults, for the purpose of frustrating me, and thus causing me to return the same lame insults, then when I do, I get kicked for behaving like you. I am familiar with the tactic, and quite frankly, it's beneath me.

PS. If you have anything to add to a nutritional discussion, you may add it now.

CIAO

Let's see your hunting license.

[ACooper]

Nor does eating that same kibble day after day.

Are you worried your furbaby is going to get bored with his food? You post some of the more humorous things I've ever read on this forum. I am down right enjoying the ridiculousness you and poinstar are posting.

Your google hand is strong!

[ACooper]

PS. People who tie up birds, or clip their wings so they can't fly, (this is recommended here) and plant them in a field, then take their dog to that part of the field, so that their sad "bleep" excuses for hunting dogs can find them......

And there it is, the proof that you know nothing about bird dogs, and are most likely an anti.

[Grange]

One whitetail or moose goes a long way to feed a dog and it's family Steve, all one needs is a freezer.

I hope you realize that using dogs to hunt whitetail deer is illegal in most of the US.

[Labs4Me]

I feed Blue Buffalo wilderness, it's animal protein content is higher than Dr. Tims, though Dr Tims seems to be a lot better then Purina Pro Plan.

Blue Buffalos rating here is a 5 http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food- ... rness-dry/

Dr Tims rating is also a 5 star http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food- ... -dog-food/

Top 5 ingredients of Dr Tims are, Chicken meal, brown rice flour, chicken fat, oat flour, dried beet pulp,

Blue Buffalo's top 5 ingredients are, Deboned chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, peas, tapioca starch

Which is why my dog eats Blue and cooked meat.......

Actually, it's not. The animal protein in your kibble is around 64% and in Dr Tim's it is 94-96% and in Diamond EA it is 92%

There is a lot of protein in peas and alfalfa meal.

Why are peas a favourite feed source for cattle - high protein.
Funny how using corn gluten meal is taboo and peas/alfalfa isn't.

Well isn't it obvious? The dentist told him corn is "bad" and the dentist gave his food from the shiny pretty bag a bunch of STARS! And STARS mean something is good! Just like in kindergarten

[whatsnext]

One whitetail or moose goes a long way to feed a dog and it's family Steve, all one needs is a freezer.

PS. People who tie up birds, or clip their wings so they can't fly, (this is recommended here) and plant them in a field, then take their dog to that part of the field, so that their sad "bleep" excuses for hunting dogs can find them......Well some would say that these people are the ones who need help.

A real hunting dog feeds itself, and it's owner and family all.

This really shows your ignorance about how and why we train hunting dogs to Handle the way we want, we do not train hunting dogs to hunt because that is something they are born with.

[pointstar]

One whitetail or moose goes a long way to feed a dog and it's family Steve, all one needs is a freezer.

I hope you realize that using dogs to hunt whitetail deer is illegal in most of the US.

But it is not illegal for a real hunter, not an internet fake, to feed whitetail or moose to a hunting dog in any state, it's excellent nutrition, even though the meat is a little lean, and 100 percent of dogs surveyed, preferred deer meat to corn kibble. The point is hunters, hunt meat, and have plenty extra for their best friend.

HMMM THAT WAS GOOD

[pointstar]

One whitetail or moose goes a long way to feed a dog and it's family Steve, all one needs is a freezer.

PS. People who tie up birds, or clip their wings so they can't fly, (this is recommended here) and plant them in a field, then take their dog to that part of the field, so that their sad "bleep" excuses for hunting dogs can find them......Well some would say that these people are the ones who need help.

A real hunting dog feeds itself, and it's owner and family all.

This really shows your ignorance about how and why we train hunting dogs to Handle the way we want, we do not train hunting dogs to hunt because that is something they are born with.

So are you saying that you tie up birds and or clip their wings so that you can teach your dogs to find birds that have been tied up and had their wings clipped?

The really sad thing here, is that any decent dog (even Roscoe P Coletrains Basset Hound, from the Dukes Of Hazard) can smell your scent trail right to where you hid the bird that you previously maimed, thus you have accomplished nothing, except in your mind.

[Cajun Casey]

One whitetail or moose goes a long way to feed a dog and it's family Steve, all one needs is a freezer.

I hope you realize that using dogs to hunt whitetail deer is illegal in most of the US.

But it is not illegal for a real hunter, not an internet fake, to feed whitetail or moose to a hunting dog in any state, it's excellent nutrition, even though the meat is a little lean, and 100 percent of dogs surveyed, preferred deer meat to corn kibble. The point is hunters, hunt meat, and have plenty extra for their best friend.

HMMM THAT WAS GOOD

What's wrong with her back?

[ACooper]

One whitetail or moose goes a long way to feed a dog and it's family Steve, all one needs is a freezer.

PS. People who tie up birds, or clip their wings so they can't fly, (this is recommended here) and plant them in a field, then take their dog to that part of the field, so that their sad "bleep" excuses for hunting dogs can find them......Well some would say that these people are the ones who need help.

A real hunting dog feeds itself, and it's owner and family all.

This really shows your ignorance about how and why we train hunting dogs to Handle the way we want, we do not train hunting dogs to hunt because that is something they are born with.

So are you saying that you tie up birds and or clip their wings so that you can teach your dogs to find birds that have been tied up and had their wings clipped?

The really sad thing here, is that any decent dog (even Roscoe P Coletrains Basset Hound, from the Dukes Of Hazard) can smell your scent trail right to where you hid the bird that you previously maimed, thus you have accomplished nothing, except in your mind.

The funny part is people like you think you're so smart you can fake your way into "looking" like a real hunter...

[pointstar]

I hope you realize that using dogs to hunt whitetail deer is illegal in most of the US.[/quote]

But it is not illegal for a real hunter, not an internet fake, to feed whitetail or moose to a hunting dog in any state, it's excellent nutrition, even though the meat is a little lean, and 100 percent of dogs surveyed, preferred deer meat to corn kibble. The point is hunters, hunt meat, and have plenty extra for their best friend.

HMMM THAT WAS GOOD[/quote]
What's wrong with her back?[/quote]

Nothing, that is just how photography is, the photo is about her licking her chops
http://www.flickr.com/photos/105281199@ ... 820434703/

Her legs and back are as strong and fast as can be,

And I have 20,000 more photos where they came from...

[pointstar]

[PS. People who tie up birds, or clip their wings so they can't fly, (this is recommended here) and plant them in a field, then take their dog to that part of the field, so that their sad "bleep" excuses for hunting dogs can find them......Well some would say that these people are the ones who need help.

A real hunting dog feeds itself, and it's owner and family all.[/quote]

This really shows your ignorance about how and why we train hunting dogs to Handle the way we want, we do not train hunting dogs to hunt because that is something they are born with.[/quote]

So are you saying that you tie up birds and or clip their wings so that you can teach your dogs to find birds that have been tied up and had their wings clipped?

The really sad thing here, is that any decent dog (even Roscoe P Coletrains Basset Hound, from the Dukes Of Hazard) can smell your scent trail right to where you hid the bird that you previously maimed, thus you have accomplished nothing, except in your mind.[/quote]


The funny part is people like you think you're so smart you can fake your way into "looking" like a real hunter...[/quote]

Real hunters do not have to feed their dogs bagged corn.

CHEW TOY FOR A GERMAN SHORTHAIRED POINTER

[Quailcommando]

Why are you even in this forum you don't hunt? Can see you don't know anything about training what's your deal?

[Cajun Casey]

Okay, so you found a winterkill skull and your dog chews on it. That makes you an authority on food? No one cares what yout dog eats or chews on, really. Just as it is not your place to pass judgment on others' choices of food. They're dogs. The eat dog food. They live to be 12 - 15 years old, if they are lucky and not too stupid. They die. We get another dog. Or ten.

[SetterNut]

I would much rather see pictures of your dog, than read this drivel.

But that dog of yours is supposed to be a bird dog, lets see some picture of it on point, or retrieving, or something else constructive from all of this awesome nutrition you are providing. ...


Something like this.

[ACooper]

Real hunters do not have to feed their dogs bagged corn.

And how would you know? Did you search it on google?

[Labs4Me]

Real hunters do not have to feed their dogs kibble with corn in it, but most choose to. Instead of letting your feelings drive you toward letting a dentist tell you what to feed, you might consider listening to and learning from real hunters.

Why do experts feed what they feed? Because it works.

If you can take time out of your busy schedule of photographing your pretty pet to post here obsessively, you have time to go to a real trainer and actually work that dog. Get her doing what she was bred to do. If there is one thing I have learned over the past year it is that there is nothing as joyful for a dog as doing what it is bred and trained to do. Try it.... instead of sniping from the sidelines.

And if you're going to feed raw meaty bones to your dog you should avoid weight bearing bones of ungulates.


Here - since you insist on doing a home crafted diet there is a link on the side of the page which will be helpful if you don't want that roach to get worse.

http://vet.osu.edu/vmc/myths-and-miscon ... -pet-foods

[pointstar]

I didn't realize life was this complicated.

In reality it is about a 50/50 mix, with a teaspoon of oatmeal and some olive oil and broth, so I figure the first two main ingredients to be 48%, could be 49%....Actually it is simple, though more complicated than feeding corn meal in a dog food bag.

I didn't realize olive oil was part of a canine natural diet? Why feed it?

It's part of my dogs diet, because it is very healthy....
http://www.dogster.com/lifestyle/dog-he ... -olive-oil

Next

[pointstar]

I would much rather see pictures of your dog, than read this drivel.

But that dog of yours is supposed to be a bird dog, lets see some picture of it on point, or retrieving, or something else constructive from all of this awesome nutrition you are providing. ...


Something like this.

Here are 48 photos to your 1..... http://www.flickr.com/photos/105281199@ ... 820434703/ Now she is still not yet 4 months old, but has already pointed at eight whitetails and a wild turkey as well as hundreds of little birds that were not tied up by a great hunter trainer for their dog to find.

The photo below, while not a great photo of the dog, was in fact a great point, as the dog was partly in a deer trail, that when I got behind her, I observed the whitetail moving off quickly, though she never budged. I have thousands of these, to your one.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

NO need for words!

[pointstar]

NO need for words!

A GSP on point holds it's tail straight back and one front foot up. Surly you can get a proper photo....... Or are there none

[ACooper]

NO need for words!

Pointed at deer? And a real life wild turkey? What VZ you aren't impressed?

A GSP on point holds it's tail straight back and one front foot up. Surly you can get a proper photo....... Or are there none

Do they now?

Pretty pup, I'm sure she would make a good one if owned by someone else.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

You get more rediculous every post you make & don't have enough sense to know it.The sad part is your dog is going to end up in a bad situation because of your lack of knowledge.

[Quailcommando]

NO need for words!

A GSP on point holds it's tail straight back and one front foot up. Surly you can get a proper photo....... Or are there none

How many deer have you killed over her? Looks like she's on the right track.

[Cajun Casey]

NO need for words!

Pointed at deer? And a real life wild turkey? What VZ you aren't impressed?

One of mine TREED a turkey once. Hope that dog gets tired of deer before some hunter puts a bullet in her.

[pointstar]

NO need for words!

Pointed at deer? And a real life wild turkey? What VZ you aren't impressed?

A GSP on point holds it's tail straight back and one front foot up. Surly you can get a proper photo....... Or are there none

Do they now?

Pretty pup, I'm sure she would make a good one if owned by someone else.

That is a poor example of a point as well, tail up and both feet down. Do you guys need help, or do your dogs just never point.. Because I have better photos than you and my girl is not even 4 months old. But then that's just how some dogs are.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

OR lost or gored & stomped to death by a Pissed off buck or doe!! Get a grip man your deranged!

Some one help me I'm about to laugh myself to death!! This guy is a total FOOL!!

[ACooper]

That is a poor example of a point as well, tail up and both feet down. Do you guys need help, or do your dogs just never point.. Because I have better photos than you and my girl is not even 4 months old. But then that's just how some dogs are.

I really laughed out loud at this... You know I was worried that being cooped up in crappy weather all day was going to be terrible. I've been highly entertained.

[pointstar]

NO need for words!

Pointed at deer? And a real life wild turkey? What VZ you aren't impressed?

One of mine TREED a turkey once. Hope that dog gets tired of deer before some hunter puts a bullet in her.

The odd thing is that bird hunters with wild and uncontrollable poorly trained dogs that have their FC titles, because they ran faster than another dog, actually believe that deer are a trash species, and that dogs should not be pointing them. The fact is that these fast ranging upland as they like to say because the dogs are scared of water dogs will not point a deer, they will chase it every time and thus must ALWAYS have a shock collar on like some nerds have in their avatar, because they are 100% uncontrollable without force, this is not a dog to be envied.