What do you feed your Dogs?

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by slistoe » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:41 pm

cjhills wrote:The life expectancy of a Isle Royal Wolf, who lives on natural food without any enemies, is about Six to eight years.........................Cj
That is a lot better than a wolf around these parts. Must be that moose and elk with the odd cow and horse thrown in is not the optimal feed.

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by Grousehunter123 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:43 pm

I feed Dr. Tim's Momentum and a raw diet. I've found NOTHING better out there and I've been at this a while and tried a bunch.

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:07 pm

cjhills wrote:
Bounty_Hunter wrote:
cjhills wrote: I'm not really talking your language or a advocate of raw. I only do it because it is cheap, fairly easy for me because a couple times a week somebody hits a deer within a mile of my house. With the weather we are having I don't need a freezer. It is very good for putting weight on the dogs that are hard keepers and the ribs do a great job of cleaning teeth. It is not necessarily better for the dogs nor is it for everybody. Right now it works for me.............................Cj
Sorry, didn't really mean to label you as a raw feeder, I just think its a good way to make use of all those road kills. I have heard the phrase many times on here, (putting or keeping weight on the dogs) and I don't quite get it, is it because you have to feed more kibble and it's that your trying to keep expense's down or is it just some dogs no matter how much kibble you feed cant gain weight?
What don't you get. If you had more than one dog you would realize that they metabolize food differently. Some dogs and some people will not put on weight on a normal diet no matter what or how much they eat. How well they like the food has nothing to do with how good it is for them. I really like bear tracks ice cream but don't think I could live on it alone. The life expectancy of a Isle Royal Wolf, who lives on natural food without any enemies, is about Six to eight years.........................Cj
Just asking to try to clarify things. Not looking for an argument either but what do Isle Royal wolves have to do with what were discussing? You say in one post you don't think deer meat is necessarily better then kibble. Yet you say it helps put weight on your dogs that are hard keepers. If just feeding kibble won't put weight on the hard keepers why does feeding deer meat put weight on them. Is it just cheaper to use deer meat or is it a matter of nutrition meaning no amount of kibble will put weight on the hard keepers but deer meat will? Just curious. :|

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by northUpland » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:15 pm

Pastor Brown, 51 posts later and everybody has totally forgotten that you just asked a simple question and asked for a simple response. For all the folks on here including the folks who run this site....really? come on man! This dude was just asking a question on what brand!!!
-I will PM what I feed to you sir. I appreciate your question but I feel no need to get involved in this car wreck!
Last edited by northUpland on Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by cjj » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:34 pm

I feed Purina Pro Plan, I tried EVO, Origen, Wellness core, My dogs were not crazy about any of them, Small Piles but lots of Gas . I went to Purina Pro Plan and the dogs love it , small piles no gas and lot's of energy !

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What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by Pastor Brown » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:37 am

I greatly appreciate all the input!

I've always fed my Husky medium grade kibble, & supplemented with fish oil for his coat ( they need ALOT of fatty acids etc because their coats repel all water )..

He is 15 now & still healthy & handsome.

I appreciate all the brief answers.

Think I'll stick with Purina Pro Plan 30/20 for both these dogs.

Great forum. Appreciate everyone's POV, even if it differs from mine. THANK YOU ALL

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:33 am

northUpland wrote:Pastor Brown, 51 posts later and everybody has totally forgotten that you just asked a simple question and asked for a simple response. For all the folks on here including the folks who run this site....really? come on man! This dude was just asking a question on what brand!!!
-I will PM what I feed to you sir. I appreciate your question but I feel no need to get involved in this car wreck!
:lol: :lol: :lol: Typical food thread. I feed loyall High Performance.

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:55 am

Here is a link to an article I was sent a couple of days ago that states almost exactly what we found out over the years I was involved. This basically is what I have tried to inform you all about. I have been concerned about what some think is a natural diet in the wild. I think if you get out and study what is going on you will find the diet is considerably different than what most think and our domesticated animals are much healthier and live much longer largely because of what and how we feed. And on top of that a wolf, a coyote, and a dog are all quite different and they eat different. Anyway here it is, I have not read it before but have read hundreds of papers over the years that say the same thing so I believe this to be pretty accurate.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 112034.htm

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by slistoe » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:44 am

Your link is broken.

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by shags » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:30 pm


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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:32 pm

ezzy333 wrote:Here is a link to an article I was sent a couple of days ago that states almost exactly what we found out over the years I was involved. This basically is what I have tried to inform you all about. I have been concerned about what some think is a natural diet in the wild. I think if you get out and study what is going on you will find the diet is considerably different than what most think and our domesticated animals are much healthier and live much longer largely because of what and how we feed. And on top of that a wolf, a coyote, and a dog are all quite different and they eat different. Anyway here it is, I have not read it before but have read hundreds of papers over the years that say the same thing so I believe this to be pretty accurate.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 112034.htm

Ezzy


If I had a concern with feeding raw it would be the balance of nutrients not pathogens that would bother me. Doing the proper research and getting the answers that are needed is not an easy task but the tools are there and so is the science.

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/he ... -diet.aspx

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by Jagerdawg » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:17 pm

Bounty_Hunter wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:Here is a link to an article I was sent a couple of days ago that states almost exactly what we found out over the years I was involved. This basically is what I have tried to inform you all about. I have been concerned about what some think is a natural diet in the wild. I think if you get out and study what is going on you will find the diet is considerably different than what most think and our domesticated animals are much healthier and live much longer largely because of what and how we feed. And on top of that a wolf, a coyote, and a dog are all quite different and they eat different. Anyway here it is, I have not read it before but have read hundreds of papers over the years that say the same thing so I believe this to be pretty accurate.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 112034.htm

Ezzy


If I had a concern with feeding raw it would be the balance of nutrients not pathogens that would bother me. Doing the proper research and getting the answers that are needed is not an easy task but the tools are there and so is the science.

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/he ... -diet.aspx
one is science the other just opinion

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:51 pm

He BH will NEVER get it!! You can show them the science on kibble but they have none on raw other then THEIR opinions! :roll: & they can't get off of it. :roll:

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:34 pm

Jagerdawg wrote: one is science the other just opinion
Actually I see both as science, one is just proven by nature, the other, well?? It works for most dogs..

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by markj » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:56 pm

Like Colby Stanga on axe men, I let the dogs go find what they wish to eat. They live off alligators and fish.... well no I feed PMI Nutrition :) He took his dog to the vet, said that dog was very healthy, then asked him what he fed it. :) looked at that vet kinda wierd said I dont feed this dog anything, it goes gets what it wants :) lives off the swamp
natel24 wrote:i only feed bacon grease


Lol, I like to add a little lard to the bacon fat...
I save the grease off them hogs I cook, fills up a 5 gallon pail, I feed this to them, they just kinda slurp it up
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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by bmb3 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:45 pm

Sportmix black bag with sportmix blue bag. 1/2 and 1/2

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by Hunter » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:55 pm

Pro Pac performance 30 - 20, small stools and affordable
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Post by Ricky Ticky Shorthairs » Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:05 pm

Shelby, not Colby.

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by markj » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:34 am

Shelby, not Colby.
Yep. I might have to watch it more often :) I like his dog. the rest is kinda strange.
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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by LAboykin » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:40 pm

Purina Pro Plan

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by Grange » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:52 pm

American Natural Premium for my lab and my setter in the winter. During trial and hunting seasons my setter gets Red Paw PowerEdge 32K.

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by Frankug » Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:50 am

Did someone say they fed there dogs roadkill? Wonder if you have a problem with tapeworms and other parasites? I feed Members Mark from Sams Club. Lamb and rice formula. I feed a high quality puppy food for the first year. I don't think it is a marketing ploy but humans can justify anything. I usually go with something with extra omegas. I have always heard pay for a good dog food or pay for more trips to the vet. I have fourteen dogs. I would like to hear more about the raw diet. Better pm me though as it sounds like no one wants to hear about it. I fed my dogs venison when i had it available along with kibble. Was told to cook it though. Never seen a wild dog cooking something out in the woods though. They usually look pretty scrappy, mangy and riddled with parasites?

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:26 am

Frankug wrote:Did someone say they fed there dogs roadkill? Wonder if you have a problem with tapeworms and other parasites? I feed Members Mark from Sams Club. Lamb and rice formula. I feed a high quality puppy food for the first year. I don't think it is a marketing ploy but humans can justify anything. I usually go with something with extra omegas. I have always heard pay for a good dog food or pay for more trips to the vet. I have fourteen dogs. I would like to hear more about the raw diet. Better pm me though as it sounds like no one wants to hear about it. I fed my dogs venison when i had it available along with kibble. Was told to cook it though. Never seen a wild dog cooking something out in the woods though. They usually look pretty scrappy, mangy and riddled with parasites?
I think a lot guys just like to supplement what they feed with some real meat and what better way then free road kill venison. They all think I am an advocate or trying to force feed the raw way on everyone but I am not. I even mix kibble in with my dogs food two or three days per week and I buy whatever is on sale. But the fact that I feed much more raw meat and other ingredients I don't worry about if the kibble is providing enough nutrients. As for the problems with the worms just don't feed any intestional matter and freeze any other organ meat for 3or 4 days before you feed it. If you want freeze any wild meat and bones for a few days before feeding and you shouldn't have any problems. Very good nutrition in those raw meat meals.

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by cjhills » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:13 am

Biggest issue with large animal meat is we have no idea what the fat content is . I don't feed raw meat more than about three times a week. As I said before just because we like it don't mean it is good for us. In fact sometimes it seems the opposite.....................Cj

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:29 pm

cjhills wrote:Biggest issue with large animal meat is we have no idea what the fat content is . I don't feed raw meat more than about three times a week. As I said before just because we like it don't mean it is good for us. In fact sometimes it seems the opposite.....................Cj
How do your dogs do getting the raw meat 3 times a week?

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:01 pm

I can tell you that dogs will do good if they get meat one, two, three or more days. They will also do good getting their meat in the dry feed they are eating. Doesn't make much difference in the chemical makeup and that is what a dog like the rest of us live on.

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It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:53 am

ezzy333 wrote:I can tell you that dogs will do good if they get meat one, two, three or more days. They will also do good getting their meat in the dry feed they are eating. Doesn't make much difference in the chemical makeup and that is what a dog like the rest of us live on.

Ezzy
Sorry, but I don't have faith in feeding only kibble of any kind which is why I only use it to extend the raw diet I feed. Adding kibble 3 days per week allows me to use less raw meat because it can get expensive when I cant find any road kill or deals at the stores I shop. I am much more against wheat then corn as an additive to kibble and I don't think wheat has any place in a dogs diet or ours from what I have been hearing. I also think some dog owners put too much fuss into trying to balance out the nutrients in what they feed. How many of us humans monitor our own fat and protein intake or do we all know what our vitamin and mineral intake is on a daily basis. Over time with the right variety of foods, species appropriate of course should keep most dogs healthy. If you are more of a kibble feeder I would think that giving your dog some ground beef or chicken 2 times per week with his kibble as a treat would do him justice. Just my thoughts...

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:20 pm

You have a lot of thoughts and opinions which I find interesting but you have never once explained where they came from or what is behind those thoughts. I think it would be good and very interesting to see and read what you have used to base those opinions on. I have never read anything from the scientific field or have I seen anything here in the real world that would make me think like you do. Please help us to understand where the general public has gone wrong and why the feed manufacturers are all trying to ruin our dogs. Looking forward to some interesting reading.

Thank you
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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by CDN_Cocker » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:52 pm

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:48 pm

ezzy333 wrote:You have a lot of thoughts and opinions which I find interesting but you have never once explained where they came from or what is behind those thoughts. I think it would be good and very interesting to see and read what you have used to base those opinions on. I have never read anything from the scientific field or have I seen anything here in the real world that would make me think like you do. Please help us to understand where the general public has gone wrong and why the feed manufacturers are all trying to ruin our dogs. Looking forward to some interesting reading.

Thank you
Ezzy
To say the dog food industry is trying to ruin our dogs has never been part of my thoughts or words. I would not add any kibble to my dogs diet if I thought that were true. Its kind of like hotdogs, they taste good and do provide some nutrition but you wouldn't want to include them to your daily diet. Two hotdogs once or twice a week would seem more logical. Without going too deep into the science of kibble or raw diets, wouldn't you agree that fresh foods are far better for us humans then processed foods? We do eat processed foods but are always told that fresh foods are better for good health. Why would that be different for a dog? If everyone on this forum believes that their kibble provides everything their dog needs to stay healthy then why do so many feel the need to supplement with different forms of meat, some raw, some cooked? What I do dislike about the pet food industry is how they are always throwing money in the form of funding to colleges or institutions who seem to find so much fault with feeding foods other then what is approved by the pet food industry. There needs to be more middle ground. I do think that from an economical side many people don't like the idea of feeding meat that could be used for supper but incorporating some meat into our dogs kibble diets seems to be a growing trend. Hope this helped you.

B_H

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:35 am

Bounty_Hunter wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:You have a lot of thoughts and opinions which I find interesting but you have never once explained where they came from or what is behind those thoughts. I think it would be good and very interesting to see and read what you have used to base those opinions on. I have never read anything from the scientific field or have I seen anything here in the real world that would make me think like you do. Please help us to understand where the general public has gone wrong and why the feed manufacturers are all trying to ruin our dogs. Looking forward to some interesting reading.

Thank you
Ezzy
To say the dog food industry is trying to ruin our dogs has never been part of my thoughts or words. I would not add any kibble to my dogs diet if I thought that were true. Its kind of like hotdogs, they taste good and do provide some nutrition but you wouldn't want to include them to your daily diet. Two hotdogs once or twice a week would seem more logical. Without going too deep into the science of kibble or raw diets, wouldn't you agree that fresh foods are far better for us humans then processed foods? We do eat processed foods but are always told that fresh foods are better for good health. Why would that be different for a dog? If everyone on this forum believes that their kibble provides everything their dog needs to stay healthy then why do so many feel the need to supplement with different forms of meat, some raw, some cooked? What I do dislike about the pet food industry is how they are always throwing money in the form of funding to colleges or institutions who seem to find so much fault with feeding foods other then what is approved by the pet food industry. There needs to be more middle ground. I do think that from an economical side many people don't like the idea of feeding meat that could be used for supper but incorporating some meat into our dogs kibble diets seems to be a growing trend. Hope this helped you.

B_H
And again it is all your thought and nothing of substance to base your opinions on. Help us out please.
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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by Dwells » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:38 pm

I feed about 4 cups Diamond Extreme Athlete, a raw egg, and a chicken leg quarter every evening. I run the trial dogs at least 15 miles a week and they look great and have good body condition and endurance.

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by Angus » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:46 am

I have been feeding Sportmix Black Bag. It's done well for the young dog and old dog. I've also fed Loyall, Earthborn, and Pro Pac over the years. Feed store is dropping the Sportmix so I picked up a bag of Eagle Pack 30/20. We'll see how it goes.

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:04 pm

ezzy333 wrote: And again it is all your thought and nothing of substance to base your opinions on. Help us out please.
Help me out. Do you have a specific question or a statement you would like me to explain? There are some things I may not be able to prove but there are also some things that the dog food industry cannot prove either. Does big foot exist? I say no! Why, because no one has ever produced one anywhere. To me that's proof that they don't exist. Can I prove they don't exist, no. Research and common sense are a much better tool for caring for our dogs nutritional needs then the nutritional labels or decades old flashy brand names listed on a bag of dog food. Yes, that's just my opinion but at least I have some proof to back that statement up, even if its just one dog. Here is a statement, wheat is not a good food choice for dogs or humans. Physicians and researchers are telling us that wheat in our diet is a main cause of digestive disorders and a slew of other health problems and should never have been a part of the human diet. Should I believe them or not??...

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:51 pm

What I was asking for is the results of an actual study done that shows that raw feed will make your dog live longer, or even that it is better for the dog in any way. I want to see the research that shows what the natural diet of wolves, dogs coyotes or most any other N. Ame54rican animal really is, what their needs are and how they attained those needs. You have opinions on most of this but I can't agree with some of them because I have read studies that don't agree or have a different opinion on others. Where did you see that wheat is bad for all humans I am assuming because a few have a gluten intolerance? And what does that have to do with dogs? Where did you get the idea that labeled nutrition and flashy brand names are a problem or even that brand names are flashy?

You asked about wheat being a part of the human diet and should you believe that it shouldn't have ever been. My experience would tell you if it wasn't there would have been millios of people that would have starved to death if it wasn't. Should you believe that it shouldn't have been? The answer to that is NO, not till someone can give you concrete evidence that it did a lot more harm than it did good.

This makes me think of the problems with DDT. So many in our area say it shouldn't ever been used and we are sure we are right. But then you can go to the regions near the Equator and ask the people there that owe their lives to DDt and you will get an entirely different answer. My experience in the dog food world shows that some of your reasoning is right on and a lot of it is just your opinion but not based on any proven facts.

Again, I am not telling you to change feeds but I would ask that you really make an effort to find the facts of animal nutrition before telling the world that you have discovered all there is to know about feeding a dog from your experience with your one dog.

Ezzy
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http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

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Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:37 pm

ezzy333 wrote:What I was asking for is the results of an actual study done that shows that raw feed will make your dog live longer, or even that it is better for the dog in any way. I want to see the research that shows what the natural diet of wolves, dogs coyotes or most any other N. Ame54rican animal really is, what their needs are and how they attained those needs.
Now Ezzy we both know that its not possible to produce information from proven or even documented research done on raw fed dogs because no one would fund such research. That doesn't mean a raw diet isn't better for dogs it just means there hasn't been any research done that anyone can produce to defend this theory. Now I will ask you to prove that the dog food industry has the right to label dog food as complete and balanced. Complete and balanced as compared to what, a chicken, a rabbit, a moose or deer or perhaps a woodchuck? This is what wolves and coyotes eat in the wild so what is kibble nutritiously compared to? Then there's the how much. The dog food industry informs us on average to feed 2 cups of kibble a day, what animal is that nutritionally equivalent to, half a chuck or 1 small rabbit? In the wild it is said that an adult wolf can gorge himself with as much as 20lbs. of fresh meat from a kill and go for days even weeks without eating. Could a dog gorge himself on kibble and then go weeks without another meal? There are lots of unanswered questions when it comes to both kibble and the raw diet but I choose to put more trust in what has kept a dogs ancestors alive long before any commercial dog food became a thought. So as not to put all my eggs in one basket I also feed a small amount of kibble weekly. I don't claim to know what the best diet is for a dog I just know what works for me, but one of the reasons I joined this forum is to get some thoughts and opinions on this controversial subject. The way I see it is opinions and advice are free! :)

http://wdfw.wa.gov/living/coyotes.html
http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/faq.html

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by slistoe » Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:55 pm

Bounty_Hunter wrote:Physicians and researchers are telling us that wheat in our diet is a main cause of digestive disorders and a slew of other health problems and should never have been a part of the human diet. Should I believe them or not??...
Are you reading Dr. Mercola as a legitimate source of information?

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by AlbertaChessie » Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:57 pm

Bounty_Hunter wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:What I was asking for is the results of an actual study done that shows that raw feed will make your dog live longer, or even that it is better for the dog in any way. I want to see the research that shows what the natural diet of wolves, dogs coyotes or most any other N. Ame54rican animal really is, what their needs are and how they attained those needs.
Now Ezzy we both know that its not possible to produce information from proven or even documented research done on raw fed dogs because no one would fund such research. That doesn't mean a raw diet isn't better for dogs it just means there hasn't been any research done that anyone can produce to defend this theory. Now I will ask you to prove that the dog food industry has the right to label dog food as complete and balanced. Complete and balanced as compared to what, a chicken, a rabbit, a moose or deer or perhaps a woodchuck? This is what wolves and coyotes eat in the wild so what is kibble nutritiously compared to? Then there's the how much. The dog food industry informs us on average to feed 2 cups of kibble a day, what animal is that nutritionally equivalent to, half a chuck or 1 small rabbit? In the wild it is said that an adult wolf can gorge himself with as much as 20lbs. of fresh meat from a kill and go for days even weeks without eating. Could a dog gorge himself on kibble and then go weeks without another meal? There are lots of unanswered questions when it comes to both kibble and the raw diet but I choose to put more trust in what has kept a dogs ancestors alive long before any commercial dog food became a thought. So as not to put all my eggs in one basket I also feed a small amount of kibble weekly. I don't claim to know what the best diet is for a dog I just know what works for me, but one of the reasons I joined this forum is to get some thoughts and opinions on this controversial subject. The way I see it is opinions and advice are free! :)

http://wdfw.wa.gov/living/coyotes.html
http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/faq.html
Im not disagreeing with you or agreeing, but do you understand how novice you sound right now? Dogs are not coyotes and they aren't wolves. Domesticated dogs have MUCH different nutrient needs than both wolves and coyotes....furthermore, neither coyotes nor wolves eat meat exclusively.

Ezzy is right. You are basing your opinions, and they truly are unfounded uneducated opinions, on what the four oclock re-runs of oprah have to say.

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by AlbertaChessie » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:04 pm

Bounty_Hunter wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:What I was asking for is the results of an actual study done that shows that raw feed will make your dog live longer, or even that it is better for the dog in any way. I want to see the research that shows what the natural diet of wolves, dogs coyotes or most any other N. Ame54rican animal really is, what their needs are and how they attained those needs.
Now Ezzy we both know that its not possible to produce information from proven or even documented research done on raw fed dogs because no one would fund such research. That doesn't mean a raw diet isn't better for dogs it just means there hasn't been any research done that anyone can produce to defend this theory. Now I will ask you to prove that the dog food industry has the right to label dog food as complete and balanced. Complete and balanced as compared to what, a chicken, a rabbit, a moose or deer or perhaps a woodchuck? This is what wolves and coyotes eat in the wild so what is kibble nutritiously compared to? Then there's the how much. The dog food industry informs us on average to feed 2 cups of kibble a day, what animal is that nutritionally equivalent to, half a chuck or 1 small rabbit? In the wild it is said that an adult wolf can gorge himself with as much as 20lbs. of fresh meat from a kill and go for days even weeks without eating. Could a dog gorge himself on kibble and then go weeks without another meal? There are lots of unanswered questions when it comes to both kibble and the raw diet but I choose to put more trust in what has kept a dogs ancestors alive long before any commercial dog food became a thought. So as not to put all my eggs in one basket I also feed a small amount of kibble weekly. I don't claim to know what the best diet is for a dog I just know what works for me, but one of the reasons I joined this forum is to get some thoughts and opinions on this controversial subject. The way I see it is opinions and advice are free! :)

http://wdfw.wa.gov/living/coyotes.html
http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/faq.html
1. Yes there has been research done. Quite a bit of it. research before regurgitating

2. Yes, balanced when compared to a rabbit, deer etc etc. Straight meat will cut a dogs life in half. High quality kibble contains much more than just meat derivatives

3. Once again, dogs aren't coyotes or wolves. They have much different nutritional needs. 'Biologically appropriate' is the biggest misnomer in the industry.

4. Sure wolves gorge themselves....they also live to be 5 years of age.

5. So with the 'ancestors' theory I should be eating raw and uncooked mastodon wearing nothing other than a loin cloth and living out of a cave.....makes sense to me!

Would you like to try again?

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:31 pm

BH,

Actual studies of raw have been done years ago and I have no idea if or where they were reported on. But we did them and I am sure Purina did some too.

The complete and balanced label comes from all of the research done on just what and how much of every nutrient a dog need to maintain a healthy life. There have been thousands of dogs and other animals that have given their lives to just such a study. Those are the studies all of our knowledge of nutrition are based on. that's how we know how much protein, carbs, fat, minerals and vitamins an animal needs. Human nutrition lags behind somewhat simply because we can't sacrifice people like we do animals to see exactly what is going on within the body. We do have animals where we have openings into the stomach that have covers over the opening so we can remove that and look as well as sample what is going on in there. There was a human with that too in Canada where he had been shot with a shotgun and had an opening they had to plug and they were able to do some tests with him. I have no idea if he is still alive but the ability to do that has been a tremendous help with knowing more about the internal working of all animals. Because of all of the research, testing, and being able to see results have been used for years to set the minimum and maximum listed for all animals for years and years. And those are continually being refined and updated as we learn more all of the time. It was just such a feeding test that proved the advantage of having a homogenous feed that was exactly the same amount of each nutrient offset and advantage raw feed had unless you could do the same. That means everything you feed must be analyzed and the exact amount of everything you feed be able to provide the exact amount of each ingredient to the animal with every feed.

Not being able to do that does not say your dog is unhealthy but just that the feed is not the optimum diet that he could be eating. This what varies the amount you need to feed. For an animal to do well it has to get that minimum amount of every nutrient into its body and when you are feeding a single source that isn't balanced you have to feed more so the dog is getting enough of the lowest amount the ingredient carries. As an example if you feed corn and it is low in lysine then you either have to feed a lot more corn or supplement with something high in lysine. We know that we were able to go from a 16% feed to a 14% feed by supplementing lysine. The same is true with every animal and every ingredient. That is why we use multi ingredients to make any feed. In the area of protein a combination of animal and vegetable protein provides the proper amount of all of the essential amino acids that make up what we call protein by feeding less feed at a cheaper cost that doing it with just one ingredient.

One of the things I think you have completely wrong is what our wild animals ate and how it affected their health and longevity. Most wild animals are not as healthy, strong, or even as large as they would be with a well balanced diet. Mother nature tries to make us eat what we need by making us have cravings and such for certain foods but in the wild they are often hard to find. Most all of the meat eaters are always searching for vegetable matter and find it when they make a kill in the digestive system of the animal they killed. That explains why it is eaten first before the meat. But they also eat grain and fruits that they could find. It is the reverse that we see when the vegetable eaters will eat meat if they find it. It is all done in the name of balancing their diet. Happens with our dogs as well as that wild animals and because of the many studies and continue research that has been done over the many many years we have a pretty good idea of what is needed, what works, and what results we get.

if we are talking dogs, we can feed an animal a complete and wholesome diet and expect to get a healthy, long lived companion who has the ability and energy to perform at their absolute best. Look around and you will see thousands of examples that make it pretty much impossible to argue against.

Sorry this turned into a book,

Ezzy
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:16 pm

ezzy333 wrote:The complete and balanced label comes from all of the research done on just what and how much of every nutrient a dog need to maintain a healthy life. There have been thousands of dogs and other animals that have given their lives to just such a study. Those are the studies all of our knowledge of nutrition are based on. that's how we know how much protein, carbs, fat, minerals and vitamins an animal needs. Human nutrition lags behind somewhat simply because we can't sacrifice people like we do animals to see exactly what is going on within the body. We do have animals where we have openings into the stomach that have covers over the opening so we can remove that and look as well as sample what is going on in there. There was a human with that too in Canada where he had been shot with a shotgun and had an opening they had to plug and they were able to do some tests with him. I have no idea if he is still alive but the ability to do that has been a tremendous help with knowing more about the internal working of all animals. Because of all of the research, testing, and being able to see results have been used for years to set the minimum and maximum listed for all animals for years and years. And those are continually being refined and updated as we learn more all of the time. It was just such a feeding test that proved the advantage of having a homogenous feed that was exactly the same amount of each nutrient offset and advantage raw feed had unless you could do the same. That means everything you feed must be analyzed and the exact amount of everything you feed be able to provide the exact amount of each ingredient to the animal with every feed
I have heard about the studies but how do we, the general public know if their findings are 100% truth? I say this because I read that they only monitor dogs for about 3 years for health problems to test their kibble and if the dogs show no signs of nutritional deficiencies then the test is complete yet in many cases it takes more then 3 years for some deficiencies to show up. I don't know if this is true but I did read it a while back. Another problem I do have is that when you feed a dog from a bag of kibble you are feeding him the same thing day after day. Animals in the wild eat a variety of foods, so that would mean different proteins, vitamins and other nutrients but not the same day after day. Some animals may not even eat for days if they are unsuccessful trying to catch their dinner so this brings the theory balance over time into play. I would like to read more about the testing you are referring to, can you provide any links?
ezzy333 wrote:One of the things I think you have completely wrong is what our wild animals ate and how it affected their health and longevity. Most wild animals are not as healthy, strong, or even as large as they would be with a well balanced diet. Mother nature tries to make us eat what we need by making us have cravings and such for certain foods but in the wild they are often hard to find. Most all of the meat eaters are always searching for vegetable matter and find it when they make a kill in the digestive system of the animal they killed. That explains why it is eaten first before the meat. But they also eat grain and fruits that they could find. It is the reverse that we see when the vegetable eaters will eat meat if they find it. It is all done in the name of balancing their diet. Happens with our dogs as well as that wild animals and because of the many studies and continue research that has been done over the many many years we have a pretty good idea of what is needed, what works, and what results we get.
I don't agree with this. Wild animals do struggle at times to get food, yes, but it is usually due to imbalances in the environment, natural and man made like overpopulation, drought, pollution and loss of habitat due to human encroachment, ect. Alaska brown bears get pretty big and fat and are very strong yet they eat natural foods. They eat berries, insects, vegetation, animals, and also gorge themselves on salmon and that's all natural food. If wolves live 10 years or less in the wild it has nothing to do with the prey it eats. Lack of food is just that, lack of food. Living in the wild is the reason they don't live long. They must deal with bitter cold temps, bring down large hoofed prey, protect themselves from other wolves and predators including man and all these reasons together are why they have shorter life spans then domestic dogs. Sorry but I still have my reservations regarding kibble..

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:01 am

slistoe wrote:Are you reading Dr. Mercola as a legitimate source of information?
I actually didn't read it, I heard it on TV. It came from a Physician in the CA. area who specialized in digestive disorders. He went on to say wheat should never have been part of the human diet. He said there is sound research that links diabetes, crones disease and other digestive disorders to consuming foods that contain wheat. I think he said when the wheat is digested it produces too much sugar within the body and this is what causes health problems. Should I believe him or do you think he is lying?

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by frontline » Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:19 am

ezzy333 wrote:BH,

Actual studies of raw have been done years ago and I have no idea if or where they were reported on. But we did them and I am sure Purina did some too.

The complete and balanced label comes from all of the research done on just what and how much of every nutrient a dog need to maintain a healthy life. There have been thousands of dogs and other animals that have given their lives to just such a study. Those are the studies all of our knowledge of nutrition are based on. that's how we know how much protein, carbs, fat, minerals and vitamins an animal needs. Human nutrition lags behind somewhat simply because we can't sacrifice people like we do animals to see exactly what is going on within the body. We do have animals where we have openings into the stomach that have covers over the opening so we can remove that and look as well as sample what is going on in there. There was a human with that too in Canada where he had been shot with a shotgun and had an opening they had to plug and they were able to do some tests with him. I have no idea if he is still alive but the ability to do that has been a tremendous help with knowing more about the internal working of all animals. Because of all of the research, testing, and being able to see results have been used for years to set the minimum and maximum listed for all animals for years and years. And those are continually being refined and updated as we learn more all of the time. It was just such a feeding test that proved the advantage of having a homogenous feed that was exactly the same amount of each nutrient offset and advantage raw feed had unless you could do the same. That means everything you feed must be analyzed and the exact amount of everything you feed be able to provide the exact amount of each ingredient to the animal with every feed.

Not being able to do that does not say your dog is unhealthy but just that the feed is not the optimum diet that he could be eating. This what varies the amount you need to feed. For an animal to do well it has to get that minimum amount of every nutrient into its body and when you are feeding a single source that isn't balanced you have to feed more so the dog is getting enough of the lowest amount the ingredient carries. As an example if you feed corn and it is low in lysine then you either have to feed a lot more corn or supplement with something high in lysine. We know that we were able to go from a 16% feed to a 14% feed by supplementing lysine. The same is true with every animal and every ingredient. That is why we use multi ingredients to make any feed. In the area of protein a combination of animal and vegetable protein provides the proper amount of all of the essential amino acids that make up what we call protein by feeding less feed at a cheaper cost that doing it with just one ingredient.

One of the things I think you have completely wrong is what our wild animals ate and how it affected their health and longevity. Most wild animals are not as healthy, strong, or even as large as they would be with a well balanced diet. Mother nature tries to make us eat what we need by making us have cravings and such for certain foods but in the wild they are often hard to find. Most all of the meat eaters are always searching for vegetable matter and find it when they make a kill in the digestive system of the animal they killed. That explains why it is eaten first before the meat. But they also eat grain and fruits that they could find. It is the reverse that we see when the vegetable eaters will eat meat if they find it. It is all done in the name of balancing their diet. Happens with our dogs as well as that wild animals and because of the many studies and continue research that has been done over the many many years we have a pretty good idea of what is needed, what works, and what results we get.

if we are talking dogs, we can feed an animal a complete and wholesome diet and expect to get a healthy, long lived companion who has the ability and energy to perform at their absolute best. Look around and you will see thousands of examples that make it pretty much impossible to argue against.

Sorry this turned into a book,

Ezzy
Seriously??? Your dissertation isn't on the mark and you would be wise to do some research before you argue the pros or cons of anything. It only takes one misstatement to hurt your credibility and you've made more than one. The obvious faux pas, wolves, cats etc. eat the stomach contents of their prey first. They do not, it's a myth. If they are consuming a small animal it gets eaten automatically but in a larger prey it is avoided. There are both advantages and disadvantages to feeding either whole foods or kibble. Why argue the point? Everyone has the right to feed their dog how they like. As a moderator you should respect the OP wishes and just list what you feed and keep this thread on track.

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by slistoe » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:06 am

Bounty_Hunter wrote:
slistoe wrote:Are you reading Dr. Mercola as a legitimate source of information?
I actually didn't read it, I heard it on TV. It came from a Physician in the CA. area who specialized in digestive disorders. He went on to say wheat should never have been part of the human diet. He said there is sound research that links diabetes, crones disease and other digestive disorders to consuming foods that contain wheat. I think he said when the wheat is digested it produces too much sugar within the body and this is what causes health problems. Should I believe him or do you think he is lying?
I would check to see what he was trying to sell with the infomercial.

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by slistoe » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:15 am

frontline wrote: The obvious faux pas, wolves, cats etc. eat the stomach contents of their prey first. They do not, it's a myth. If they are consuming a small animal it gets eaten automatically but in a larger prey it is avoided.
Perhaps a little knowledge yourself before you start calling someone on it. Coyotes and wolves certainly do not avoid the intestines of large animals, and they most certainly do eat it first. I didn't read this in a book somewhere, I have witnessed more than just a few large animals being eaten by coyotes and wolves and the pattern has been consistent in every single one of them.

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by Pastor Brown » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:00 am

I have also witnessed the same thing. Typically the area around the anus?stomach is the softest, weakest point, and I have seen yotee's on more than one occasion begin eating there.

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:02 am

slistoe wrote:
frontline wrote: The obvious faux pas, wolves, cats etc. eat the stomach contents of their prey first. They do not, it's a myth. If they are consuming a small animal it gets eaten automatically but in a larger prey it is avoided.
Perhaps a little knowledge yourself before you start calling someone on it. Coyotes and wolves certainly do not avoid the intestines of large animals, and they most certainly do eat it first. I didn't read this in a book somewhere, I have witnessed more than just a few large animals being eaten by coyotes and wolves and the pattern has been consistent in every single one of them.
Perhaps they're after the organs and stomach lining, because everything I have read says they do not eat the contents within the stomach and they actually avoid it. How close were you when you were watching them, is it possible it just looked like they were eating stomach contents. Perhaps a starving carnivore in an attempt to get his share might accidently eat it but it doesn't sound like the norm.

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by Pastor Brown » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:13 am

the closest time I've seen it live was around 150-180 yards with a scope, they were definitely pulling out & eating entrails.

I have also come up on multiple carcasses and found the organs as much eaten as the muscle tissue.

My main point however, is that the butt - stomach area is always the point of entry.

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by AlbertaChessie » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:31 am

frontline wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:BH,

Actual studies of raw have been done years ago and I have no idea if or where they were reported on. But we did them and I am sure Purina did some too.

The complete and balanced label comes from all of the research done on just what and how much of every nutrient a dog need to maintain a healthy life. There have been thousands of dogs and other animals that have given their lives to just such a study. Those are the studies all of our knowledge of nutrition are based on. that's how we know how much protein, carbs, fat, minerals and vitamins an animal needs. Human nutrition lags behind somewhat simply because we can't sacrifice people like we do animals to see exactly what is going on within the body. We do have animals where we have openings into the stomach that have covers over the opening so we can remove that and look as well as sample what is going on in there. There was a human with that too in Canada where he had been shot with a shotgun and had an opening they had to plug and they were able to do some tests with him. I have no idea if he is still alive but the ability to do that has been a tremendous help with knowing more about the internal working of all animals. Because of all of the research, testing, and being able to see results have been used for years to set the minimum and maximum listed for all animals for years and years. And those are continually being refined and updated as we learn more all of the time. It was just such a feeding test that proved the advantage of having a homogenous feed that was exactly the same amount of each nutrient offset and advantage raw feed had unless you could do the same. That means everything you feed must be analyzed and the exact amount of everything you feed be able to provide the exact amount of each ingredient to the animal with every feed.

Not being able to do that does not say your dog is unhealthy but just that the feed is not the optimum diet that he could be eating. This what varies the amount you need to feed. For an animal to do well it has to get that minimum amount of every nutrient into its body and when you are feeding a single source that isn't balanced you have to feed more so the dog is getting enough of the lowest amount the ingredient carries. As an example if you feed corn and it is low in lysine then you either have to feed a lot more corn or supplement with something high in lysine. We know that we were able to go from a 16% feed to a 14% feed by supplementing lysine. The same is true with every animal and every ingredient. That is why we use multi ingredients to make any feed. In the area of protein a combination of animal and vegetable protein provides the proper amount of all of the essential amino acids that make up what we call protein by feeding less feed at a cheaper cost that doing it with just one ingredient.

One of the things I think you have completely wrong is what our wild animals ate and how it affected their health and longevity. Most wild animals are not as healthy, strong, or even as large as they would be with a well balanced diet. Mother nature tries to make us eat what we need by making us have cravings and such for certain foods but in the wild they are often hard to find. Most all of the meat eaters are always searching for vegetable matter and find it when they make a kill in the digestive system of the animal they killed. That explains why it is eaten first before the meat. But they also eat grain and fruits that they could find. It is the reverse that we see when the vegetable eaters will eat meat if they find it. It is all done in the name of balancing their diet. Happens with our dogs as well as that wild animals and because of the many studies and continue research that has been done over the many many years we have a pretty good idea of what is needed, what works, and what results we get.

if we are talking dogs, we can feed an animal a complete and wholesome diet and expect to get a healthy, long lived companion who has the ability and energy to perform at their absolute best. Look around and you will see thousands of examples that make it pretty much impossible to argue against.

Sorry this turned into a book,

Ezzy
Seriously??? Your dissertation isn't on the mark and you would be wise to do some research before you argue the pros or cons of anything. It only takes one misstatement to hurt your credibility and you've made more than one. The obvious faux pas, wolves, cats etc. eat the stomach contents of their prey first. They do not, it's a myth. If they are consuming a small animal it gets eaten automatically but in a larger prey it is avoided. There are both advantages and disadvantages to feeding either whole foods or kibble. Why argue the point? Everyone has the right to feed their dog how they like. As a moderator you should respect the OP wishes and just list what you feed and keep this thread on track.
Not quite sure where youre from, but its obvious youre from an area lacking in wolves. Ill send the two cattle I lost this year a memo that the fact their stomach was blown out long before any meat was taken by wolves was a complete fluke, and they should let the wolves know theyre apparently doing it wrong.

Why do guys comment on things they have absolutely no knowledge of?

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Re: What do you feed your Dogs?

Post by Pastor Brown » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:37 am

I agree with chessie, the majority of the carrion I've seen here is steer fatalities from wolf attack's & it's usually always the same M.O.

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