Older dog Joint Care?

[Frankug]

Is it just a marketing scheme or is there something that helps the older dogs Joints? Anybody seen good results with something. I am using senior food and some type of supplement. Not really seeing much difference. Thoughts are appreciated. Thanks.

[Del Lolo]

What supplement and for how long?
The best care for old joints begins in puppyhood. You know -- an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[MonsterDad]

Perna has been shown in several studies to help inflammation in joints. Glucosamine & Chondroitin seem to be totally useless in human and animal studies when used later in life. They probably has value when used over a lifetime but if you looks at the evidence there is none that it is effective when trouble arises.

There is good documentation that Perna actually helps.

[shags]

My oldest dog was dead lame from a severe problem. An ortho vet at Ohio State recommended Dasuquin and fish oil. Didn't take long to kick in and he's up and running again.

[Angus]

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the ... they-work/

I found this to be a good read and gives "Food for thought" if nothing else. Take it for what it's worth. Some people see benefits in their dogs when using supplements, some do not.

My grandfather used to swear by "A sardine each day" when his dogs hit 10 years old. He would open a can of sardines and drop one in the kibble. He swore that it helped with their hips and elbows. No article would convince him otherwise.

[Donnytpburge]

Glucosamine works good

Db

[Del Lolo]

Perna has been shown in several studies to help inflammation in joints. Glucosamine & Chondroitin seem to be totally useless in human and animal studies when used later in life. They probably has value when used over a lifetime but if you looks at the evidence there is none that it is effective when trouble arises.

There is good documentation that Perna actually helps.

Chondroitin Sulfate works well for growing puppies -- it has virtually no effect once the dog is adult.
As for Glucosamine, it depends on whether it is the HCl (hydrochloride) form or the Sulfate form.
Glucosamine Sulfate works well -- HCl does not.

The big thing nowdays is Hyaluronic Acid -- but it has to be in the form that has been enzymatically cleaved, so that the body does not recognize it as a food and thus doesn't digest it.

The following was sent to me by "Doc E", who doesn't post here anymore.

The reading starts on page 14.

THE JOURNAL OF
APPLIED NUTRITION
An Official Publication of the International and
American Associations of Clinical Nutritionists
http://www.iaacn.org/Jan_54-1.pdf

"However, dietary supplements
containing HA are not equivalent due to
the inherent properties of the three major types
of HA commercially available as dietary supplement
materials. Consumers and health care professionals
need to be aware of the different types
of HA and their very large differences in properties
(even before ingestion). One source,
hydrolyzed chicken sternal cartilage, is clearly
unlike native HA, does not match the biological
properties of native HA, and consequently
should not be represented as HA to consumers
on product labels. Rooster comb HA is significantly
smaller than native HA (about 10-20%
the size of native HA), and is tightly bound to
connective tissue proteins. This type of HA does
not match the literature on properties and benefits
of native HA because of its smaller size and
tight binding to proteins. Finally, high molecular weight, purified HA is available from vegetarian-
compatible and animal sources, virtually
identical to native HA and pharmaceutical
preparations of HA. This material is analogous
to the HA used to generate the extensive body of
knowledge on HA, both its roles and its therapeutic
effects in OA. HA from the microbial fermentation
method of preparation has published
evidence for uptake into joints after oral administration."

[MikeB]

Here is a product worth considering.

Animal Natural Joint Strong.

http://www.k9power.com/k9-joint-strong.html

[dog dr]

we have many clients that have seen benefit from a product called Steadfast. Almost everybody i sell it to comes back for more.

[Frankug]

Just ordered the Steadfast Product. Thanks Doc. I assume by your profile name Dog Dr, You are a Doctor. Read the article sent by Angus as well. Interesting. I think the Supplement I am giving is some type of Glucosamine Chondroitin Combo, but it is down in the kennel, and I am not. Useless according to the article though. I only have several older dogs. A ten, 12 and the one who is having all the problems is 9 maybe. She is a big Coon Hound named Alabama. I was hunting with her a few years back and she struck out on something and headed right on out of hearing. Not to be seen for about 3 weeks. When I finally found her she was a mess. 30 miles away. Still had my collar on and was taken to an animal shelter where they contacted me. The distance isn't what got her, but what happened in between. looked like she had been caught in a leg trap or something. Just a guess though want ever know for sure. Got her fixed up though as i am like a teat to a pup. Gets what us country boys call "Stove Up" these days. It seems to be slowing her down pretty bad. A couple of variables here i know, but seems if i could get something to ease the joint pain she might get around the farm a little better. It seems to me all her joints hurt not just the scarred up one from her outing. The only reason i include the story is because it always leaves me wondering what happened to her and maybe that is part of the problem. Thanks.

[shets114]

http://prudencepet.com/main/

Try their ultimate hip and joint. Give it 3-5 days and you'll see the difference.

Has NEM like the other product recommended but 7.5 times more at similar cost.

[frontline]

Hyaluronic acid is like the fountain of youth if your dog isn't too far gone arthritis wise but it can be expensive. I've seen good results using Hylasport, a reasonably priced supplement for dogs (they make one for horses too) that has HA in it. Fish oil works great too (or sardines) as it's a natural anti-inflammatory. I have osteoarthritis myself and take 4 caps @1200 mg each/day. This works better for me than the prescription medication my Dr. has given me and without any side effects. I give my 75 lb. senior 2 caps, 2x's/day with her meals. If you try fish oil start off gradually and build up to 4/day, it can be given with other joint supplements. Good luck!

[Del Lolo]

Molecular size is measured in "Daltons". Most naturally occuring Hyaluronic Acid is 1.5 million to 2 million Daltons.
If this is given, the body thinks it's a food and will digest it, which makes it non-effective.
HA needs to be enzymatically cleaved to 5000 Daltons in order for it to be effective )not digested, just absorbed and utilized).
My friend Doc E (who doesn't post here anymore) has this kind of HA on his website at http://www.DocsDogNutriceuticals.iwarp.com
I haven't looked at his site recently, but I think he has a "special package" (reduced price) when you order both his Glucosamine and HA.

[MATT4126]

On dog dr's recommendation from an earlier post i use Steadfast on my GSP who has had both knees operated on for a torn/ruptured CCL. She has been on it for going on 2 years and although she still has some bad days I see a marked difference when she is taking it. It's not cheap, at about a buck a pill but very happy with the results.

[roaniecowpony]

My lab was diagnosed with arthritis at an early age. Our vet recommended glucosomine, hyalouronic acid, and fish oil, as well as a monthly injection therapy of Adequan. We also had a discussion about my wife and I taking the glucosomine, HA, and fish oil. I also have been diagnosed with arthritis and my doctor recommended I stay on that therapy. Over the years I have gone off and on these supplements. I have encountered nearly crippling pain when I have slipped off these for extended periods. Relief from the pain occurred a short time after returning to the supplements. Not exactly scientific evidence, but dang, when you hurt you want relief. Staying on the supplements has kept the pain at bay. That's all I can say.

[DoubleBarrel GunDogs]

I use Elements J www.elements-nutrition.com

I don't know if its the best out there or not. One thing is for sure, the more you research these products the more confusing things get.

Nate

[Chaingang]

I use Elements J http://www.elements-nutrition.com

I don't know if its the best out there or not. One thing is for sure, the more you research these products the more confusing things get.

Nate

Ain't that the truth...

So.. is Elements working? or are you using it for maintaining healthy joints?

[Bounty_Hunter]

Don't mean to intrude on the conversation guys, just thought I would mention that raw meaty bones especially chicken backs, necks and feet contain glucosamine and other helpful nutrients.

http://www.backtothebone.ca/the-benefit ... aty-bones/

[jarbo03]

ENP Glucosamine Concentrate seemed to help my lab add a few more years of hunting.

[DoubleBarrel GunDogs]

I use Elements J http://www.elements-nutrition.com

I don't know if its the best out there or not. One thing is for sure, the more you research these products the more confusing things get.

Nate

Ain't that the truth...

So.. is Elements working? or are you using it for maintaining healthy joints?

The jury is still out on the "J" - joint care formula. As for the "R" - recovery / glycogen and the "H" - hydration; They definitely work very well.

Nate

[Sharon]

I use PAWS ( pure animal wellness supplement)... contains green lipped mussel, omega 3 fatty acids, glucosamine/chondroitin). It has made a difference for my 8 and 13 year old I believe.

[birddog1968]

Fish oil is all I use, doc was impressed with my 12 year olds mobility and range of motion. Can't say its the fish oil but that's all I give.

[roaniecowpony]

My vet recommended a combination of fish oil, glucosomine, and hyalouronic acid. She said the glucosomine worked better with fish oil. No idea where she got that information.