Meat & Bonemeal ---- YUK ! ! !

[Del Lolo]

For those of you who think "meat and bone meal" in the ingredient list is alright, you might want to reconsider your stance.
AAFCO has finally admitted that rendered pets (with remaining phenobarbitol from euthanasia) tumors, infections, road kill and a host of other crap are used in the manufacture of pet food. This "crap" is listed on the ingredients as "meat and bone meal"

Not convinced ? click here : http://www.bullmarketfrogs.com/2014/03/ ... -pet-food/

Now what do ya think ezzy ? (I believe you are not opposed to "meat and bone meal")

[Munster]

Hmmmm, Im ok with the thought that maybe my pets death can make someone elses pets coat nice and shiny. The circle of life.

[birddog1968]

My dogs do great on it....if its true. Personally I think this article is nonsense. I guess we are supposed to take a blog as some infallible source????

Funny her blog post was deleted from petmd......wonder why....something to do with unicorn flatulence maybe? Lol.

[Country Guy2]

For those of you who think "meat and bone meal" in the ingredient list is alright, you might want to reconsider your stance.
AAFCO has finally admitted that rendered pets (with remaining phenobarbitol from euthanasia) tumors, infections, road kill and a host of other crap are used in the manufacture of pet food. This "crap" is listed on the ingredients as "meat and bone meal"

Not convinced ? click here : http://www.bullmarketfrogs.com/2014/03/ ... -pet-food/

Now what do ya think ezzy ? (I believe you are not opposed to "meat and bone meal")

I think I might start feeding table scraps and stop feeding store bought dog food.

[birddog1968]

http://www.petfoodinstitute.org/?page=MoreMyths

Read about 3/4 of the way down the page...

[ezzy333]

You are right. The problem you mention has been there for years but in more recent times the pet problem has been reduced to practically nothing. the vets used to send all of the carcasses to the rendering facilities but in more recent times many of them are cremated. If you want to stop it completely you will need to take your pet home and bury it on your property if you live someplace that is legal. In any case you will note the blog says you can find a trace of the chemical they have used and with todays testing methods a trace can be as low as a part per million or less. It could present a problem if your dog ate a ton or two of feed everyday but otherwise it is a non-issue.

Though the process does not sound palatable for human food, it is something many of us have lived with and understood for years. Our dogs and other animals do have a different taste and concern about what they are eating than we do. Though, if you actually saw some of the practices used in human food, it wouldn't be real appetizing either. But since the material is all cooked and is completely healthy food for the animals I am certainly glad we have found a use for the carcasses that are used to provide a good source of protein, phosphate, and calcium for our dogs and livestock. The chemicals weren't a problem when I was a kid since instead of calling a vet, we used a gun or a hammer to humanely kill a sick or injured animal, but then the AR people got involved and said you couldn't do that anymore. Even though they still do it in the slaughtering plants. But we country bumpkins weren't capable I guess. But what comes around, goes around, and when people who have little understanding of what is really happening solve our problem while creating two.

Lets outlaw meat and bone meal and lets include cat manure, deer manure, road kill, both rotten and fresh, and of course the horse apples our dogs are forced to eat.

Ezzy

[Neil]

Why are none of the commercial dog food bashers part of the legitimate scientic community, they are never subject to peer reviewer, never in the mainstream media? They are always a blog, an article in an obscure magazine, or some crude pamphlet. Is there a conspiracy?

And it is always conjecture, things could be, might be, or suggested, compared to human foor, etc. Never any facts.

[Country Guy2]

Why are none of the commercial dog food bashers part of the legitimate scientic community, they are never subject to peer reviewer, never in the mainstream media? They are always a blog, an article in an obscure magazine, or some crude pamphlet. Is there a conspiracy?

And it is always conjecture, things could be, might be, or suggested, compared to human foor, etc. Never any facts.

Do you have any proof that this information if false because I don't want my dogs eating diseased flesh of who knows what? At least If I'm feeding table scraps I know what my dogs are getting. Not really looking for an argument but many dogs have done pretty good on table scraps long before an industry decided they could make money selling dried meat scraps in a bag.

[Del Lolo]

"During the 1990s, the FDA's Center for Veterinary Medicine (CVM) received reports from veterinarians that pentobarbital seemed to be losing its effectiveness for anesthesia in dogs. Based on these reports, the Center decided to investigate the theory that the dogs were exposed to pentobarbital through dog food, and that this exposure was making them less responsive to pentobarbital when it was used as a drug.

CVM developed and used a sophisticated process to detect and quantify minute amounts of pentobarbital in dog food. Upon finding pentobarbital residues in some samples of dry dog food, CVM scientists conducted further tests that led them to conclude that dogs eating dry dog food are unlikely to have any adverse health effects from the low levels of pentobarbital found in the dog food samples tested.

CVM scientists also developed a test to detect dog and cat DNA in the protein of dog food. Since pentobarbital is used to euthanize dogs and cats at animal shelters, finding pentobarbital in rendered feed ingredients could suggest that pets were rendered and used in pet food. Test results indicated a complete absence of protein material that would have been derived from euthanized dogs or cats. As a result of their study, CVM scientists assume the source of the pentobarbital in dog food is cattle or horses euthanized and then rendered."

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/New ... 110419.htm

http://www.fda.gov/aboutfda/centersoffi ... 129134.htm

[Neil]

Sir,

Did you even read your citations? Neither are formal studies, no peer review, full of assumptions, and dated. Some would question the underling assumption, let alone the conclussion.

[MonsterDad]

The guy is right in some respects but overall dead wrong and just trying to get attention.

The problem is the way definitions are structured. "Meat & Bone Meal" is used to describe a product with mixed ingredients, but the definition can be abused.

Amazingly, it is not legal for a pet food company to label it this way "Meat and Bone Meal (beef & pork)". Why in the world would this be illegal? The FDA in fact has a rule on this.

The truth is that from a reputable manufacturer "Meat Meal" or "Meat & Bone Meal" is a mixture of beef and pork.

Sportmix emailed me the spec sheet from their supplier showing that its "Meat Meal" was 70% beef and 30% pork.

[ezzy333]

Meat and Bone Meal is a product that is seldom used in dog food though it is a good product used extensively in livestock feed. Country Guy made the comment that they fed scraps long before the companies decided they could make money bagging meat scraps. That had to be a long time ago as meat scraps have been on the market for well over 80 years and probably much longer. That and tankage was a staple in pig feed but the meats scraps was the better product for other feeds. The real advantage of the meat and bone is the added minerals you get almost free.

Ezzy

[Mountaineer]

...I think I might start feeding table scraps and stop feeding store bought dog food.

Pretty sure that no one will be breaking down your entryway door to stop you, criticize you or commend you.

I do have a problem with that idea though...to be deucedly honest.
I just don't have enough table scraps to feed a dog........let alone three.
I reckon I eat too much...change that, I know I do.
It simply would be both unfair and heartless for me to switch to a table scrap regimen for my dogs.

I suppose the opposite consideration might be that if you do have sufficient table scraps for a dog, then it might only be for one pup or a small pup at that.
Or, that there is some wasting of food going on and if the waste was eliminated before it got to the preparation area or table then there would be more money in the kitty for an option other than table scraps and plate-scrapings.

This whole shebang has me seriously thinking of some form of more focused and greater in-depth Internet thought bubble on the problems possible with feeding dogs( well, principally dogs) table scraps.
A blog or agenda-device might pick it up, fingers crossed, and perhaps I would be quoted as an expert.
That alone would be worth a giggle to see.
I retire now to contemplate how to best handle the coming notoriety or the complete ignoring of my opinions.
I assume others are doing much the same.

But first, a hunting trip travel tip:
Many times I seek out good steak joints on a trip afield.
Friendly banter and a winning smile toward a waitress can often result in an asked for bag of kitchen steak scraps upon departure.
While I expect there are dangers possible with every action today, the dogs suggested this gambit.
fwiw

[Country Guy2]

Meat and Bone Meal is a product that is seldom used in dog food though it is a good product used extensively in livestock feed. Country Guy made the comment that they fed scraps long before the companies decided they could make money bagging meat scraps. That had to be a long time ago as meat scraps have been on the market for well over 80 years and probably much longer. That and tankage was a staple in pig feed but the meats scraps was the better product for other feeds. The real advantage of the meat and bone is the added minerals you get almost free.

Ezzy

Didn't realize they made dog food that long ago. I can't imagine people buying dog food during the great depression when they could hardly feed themselves though. From reading some of your posts you seem like a guy that knows the dog food industry well. I always wondered if the deer butcher guys ever sold their scraps to the dog food makers? There are so many dog food verities on the market it seems like their constantly trying to out do each other.

[Country Guy2]

...I think I might start feeding table scraps and stop feeding store bought dog food.

Pretty sure that no one will be breaking down your entryway door to stop you, criticize you or commend you.

I do have a problem with that idea though...to be deucedly honest.
I just don't have enough table scraps to feed a dog........let alone three.
I reckon I eat too much...change that, I know I do.
It simply would be both unfair and heartless for me to switch to a table scrap regimen for my dogs.

I suppose the opposite consideration might be that if you do have sufficient table scraps for a dog, then it might only be for one pup or a small pup at that.
Or, that there is some wasting of food going on and if the waste was eliminated before it got to the preparation area or table then there would be more money in the kitty for an option other than table scraps and plate-scrapings.

A hunting trip travel hint:
Many times I seek out good steak joints on a trip afield.
Friendly banter and a winning smile toward a waitress can often result in an asked for bag of kitchen steak scraps upon departure.
While I expect there are dangers possible with every action today, the dogs suggested this gambit.
fwiw

Asking relatives and friends who don't have dogs to save their meat scraps by way of freezer is a good way to get some free dog food. Another idea would be someone who works at a restaurant that might secure some meat scraps. Its a good alternative to buying store bought dog food that keeps going up in price.

[slistoe]

But first, a hunting trip travel tip:
Many times I seek out good steak joints on a trip afield.
Friendly banter and a winning smile toward a waitress can often result in an asked for bag of kitchen steak scraps upon departure.
While I expect there are dangers possible with every action today, the dogs suggested this gambit.
fwiw

This reminds me of a good story from a night out at the "all you can eat" rib night. A lone fellow in the booth next to us finished his first plate of ribs and asked for another. He also asked for a doggy bag to take his bones home for his dog. The waitress obliged and the bones went in the bag when the second plate of ribs arrived. He took a couple of bites from each rib, put it in the bag and asked for another plate. The waitress cheerfully brought another plate and proceeded to clean up a table that had just left. He continued taking a bite or two and putting them in the bag. She cheerfully walked up with a plate of bones from the next table and said "Your dog will probably love some more." and dumped then in his bag of bones. He didn't ask for another plate of ribs.

[claybuster_aa]

Why are none of the commercial dog food bashers part of the legitimate scientic community, they are never subject to peer reviewer, never in the mainstream media? They are always a blog, an article in an obscure magazine, or some crude pamphlet. Is there a conspiracy?

And it is always conjecture, things could be, might be, or suggested, compared to human foor, etc. Never any facts.

Everyone is a food critic, and you know if you read an opinion based article on the internet, it must be true.
In my opinion, being that it is an ingredient in my dogs food and my dog had been eating that ingredient for 11+ years, and never once complained to me about that ingredient, I think it is good stuff!

[birddog1968]

Monsanto bashers know zip about farming.......see a pattern?

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

I would rather feed the cheapest kibble on the market compared to the 3 week old horse that mine ate on.

[marysburg]

Exactly right.

[ezzy333]

I would rather feed the cheapest kibble on the market compared to the 3 week old horse that mine ate on.

Maybe, just maybe we should consider what the dog likes instead of just what we like. If your dog is happy with the 3 week old horse why do we find it so bad. Just a thought I have quite often.

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

I would rather feed the cheapest kibble on the market compared to the 3 week old horse that mine ate on.

Maybe, just maybe we should consider what the dog likes instead of just what we like. If your dog is happy with the 3 week old horse why do we find it so bad. Just a thought I have quite often.

I should have said it was dead for 3 weeks.

[ezzy333]

I would rather feed the cheapest kibble on the market compared to the 3 week old horse that mine ate on.

Maybe, just maybe we should consider what the dog likes instead of just what we like. If your dog is happy with the 3 week old horse why do we find it so bad. Just a thought I have quite often.

I should have said it was dead for 3 weeks.

I assumed that is what you meant.

[slistoe]

I would rather feed the cheapest kibble on the market compared to the 3 week old horse that mine ate on.

Maybe, just maybe we should consider what the dog likes instead of just what we like. If your dog is happy with the 3 week old horse why do we find it so bad. Just a thought I have quite often.

I should have said it was dead for 3 weeks.

I was never really worried about the eating of such things, but why, why WHY do they have to roll in it?

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

Maybe, just maybe we should consider what the dog likes instead of just what we like. If your dog is happy with the 3 week old horse why do we find it so bad. Just a thought I have quite often.

I should have said it was dead for 3 weeks.

I was never really worried about the eating of such things, but why, why WHY do they have to roll in it?

Because they can....

[ezzy333]

Maybe, just maybe we should consider what the dog likes instead of just what we like. If your dog is happy with the 3 week old horse why do we find it so bad. Just a thought I have quite often.

I should have said it was dead for 3 weeks.

I was never really worried about the eating of such things, but why, why WHY do they have to roll in it?

It smells good to them but it sure doesn't to me.

[oldbeek]

In 1959 my dad had a haul to move half rendered cow guts from the Brawly CA to California rendering in Los Angeles. We hauled 50 tons a day in open top dump trucks. I did see a load of dogs being dumped into the grinder but it was such a small percentage of the entire mass, it was not significant. Thousands of tons of meat scraps move through those kind of rendering plants daily. I worked in a feed mill. Meat meal and fish meal are 40 % of the high protein chicken and turkey feed. Grain makes up the other 60%. I won't go into what is fed a western cattle feed lots.