Amount to feed

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ruffbritt4
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Amount to feed

Post by ruffbritt4 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:49 am

we currently feed my 2.5 yo brittany 2 cups twice a day. He is in good condition and around 45 lbs. my parents want to feed what the bag says which is an additional 1/2 c each serving. When deciding a feeding amount do you go off of the bag or the dogs condition on the food? Thanks

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Re: Amount to feed

Post by shags » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:53 am

What if you fed off the bag and your dog got too thin?
What if you fed off the bag and your dog got too fat?

Would you keep feeding off the bag, or use common sense and adjust the amount fed on your own?

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Re: Amount to feed

Post by CDN_Cocker » Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:58 pm

The bag is generally wrong lol. Use it as a starting point and go from there
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Re: Amount to feed

Post by GmanHawaii » Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:36 am

My 70# GSP is 1 year old, he eats 2 cups in the morning and 3 cups in the evening. He is in top condition, not too thin or over weight, no excessive amounts of stool. Bags says he should be eating 1/2 that. Feed til you find a balance. I feed taste of the wild.
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Re: Amount to feed

Post by MonsterDad » Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:57 am

ruffbritt4 wrote:we currently feed my 2.5 yo brittany 2 cups twice a day. He is in good condition and around 45 lbs. my parents want to feed what the bag says which is an additional 1/2 c each serving. When deciding a feeding amount do you go off of the bag or the dogs condition on the food? Thanks
Always the condition but 4 cups a day for a 45lb dog is a lot of food. Tells me the quality is poor.

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Re: Amount to feed

Post by ezzy333 » Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:33 am

MonsterDad wrote:
ruffbritt4 wrote:we currently feed my 2.5 yo brittany 2 cups twice a day. He is in good condition and around 45 lbs. my parents want to feed what the bag says which is an additional 1/2 c each serving. When deciding a feeding amount do you go off of the bag or the dogs condition on the food? Thanks
Always the condition but 4 cups a day for a 45lb dog is a lot of food. Tells me the quality is poor.
Quality is not determined by how much you feed but rather what is in it.
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Re: Amount to feed

Post by nanney1 » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:47 pm

Size and density of the kibble can make a difference.

I've tried to figure this out for years, and none of it matters until you feed the dog(s) and see what works best.

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Re: Amount to feed

Post by MonsterDad » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:14 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
MonsterDad wrote:
ruffbritt4 wrote:we currently feed my 2.5 yo brittany 2 cups twice a day. He is in good condition and around 45 lbs. my parents want to feed what the bag says which is an additional 1/2 c each serving. When deciding a feeding amount do you go off of the bag or the dogs condition on the food? Thanks
Always the condition but 4 cups a day for a 45lb dog is a lot of food. Tells me the quality is poor.
Quality is not determined by how much you feed but rather what is in it.
How much you need to feed is a reflection of the quality, including the nutritional levels and the quality of the ingredients and processing.

I don't think I have ever seen a quality food recommend 5 cups a day for a 45lb dog. PPP website says 2 to 2.5 cups, OP's food says 5 cups.

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Re: Amount to feed

Post by ruffbritt4 » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:23 pm

Monsterdad,
While it suggested 5 cups, if he is in good condition while eating 4 cups how does it indicate it is poor food? He is strong, and has great endurance and can run for many hours.

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Re: Amount to feed

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:21 pm

Monster Dad wrote:How much you need to feed is a reflection of the quality, including the nutritional levels and the quality of the ingredients and processing.

I don't think I have ever seen a quality food recommend 5 cups a day for a 45lb dog. PPP website says 2 to 2.5 cups, OP's food says 5 cups.
[/quote]

Volume is determined more by the form of the feed than any other one reason. I always liked the expanded form and those measurements were about right. Many of the feeds today are in a more dense form and usually do not require that amount. However, a year old big growing GSP may very well need that amount to stay in condition while growing and very active. All of this comes down to the fact, that neither you or I can determine the quality of a feed by being on the Internet, which means we probably shouldn't be telling some one with out the knowledge or experience things that may not be true. I do know we have worked for years to concentrate our foods so the dogs don't eat as much, not for the dogs well being but because people don't want to cleanup behind them and then people have transferred that to mean they are higher quality feeds and not that they are just more concentrated.

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Re: Amount to feed

Post by polmaise » Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:56 pm

I had two eggs at breakfast the wife had none!
She had breakfast with me just the same !

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Re: Amount to feed

Post by BigTub » Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:51 pm

We have 2 Britts (~37lb) and they both get ~1 cup twice a day as couch potatoes. I think the trick is to watch for being able to feel the ribs but not visually pronounced.

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Re: Amount to feed

Post by ruffbritt4 » Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:11 pm

BigTub wrote:We have 2 Britts (~37lb) and they both get ~1 cup twice a day as couch potatoes. I think the trick is to watch for being able to feel the ribs but not visually pronounced.
I can feel his ribs. He is a tall Brittany, like his dad.

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Re: Amount to feed

Post by MonsterDad » Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:47 am

ezzy333 wrote:
Monster Dad wrote:How much you need to feed is a reflection of the quality, including the nutritional levels and the quality of the ingredients and processing.

I don't think I have ever seen a quality food recommend 5 cups a day for a 45lb dog. PPP website says 2 to 2.5 cups, OP's food says 5 cups.
Volume is determined more by the form of the feed than any other one reason. I always liked the expanded form and those measurements were about right. Many of the feeds today are in a more dense form and usually do not require that amount. However, a year old big growing GSP may very well need that amount to stay in condition while growing and very active. All of this comes down to the fact, that neither you or I can determine the quality of a feed by being on the Internet, which means we probably shouldn't be telling some one with out the knowledge or experience things that may not be true. I do know we have worked for years to concentrate our foods so the dogs don't eat as much, not for the dogs well being but because people don't want to cleanup behind them and then people have transferred that to mean they are higher quality feeds and not that they are just more concentrated.

Ezzy[/quote]

Perhaps with this response you will learn something. Food has three main components, Protein, Fat and Carbohydrates. Carbohydrates are fillers pure and simple. Higher quality foods use high levels of Protein and Fat and the best quality foods use really good sources of these nutrients. Low quality foods use high levels of useless but cheap carbohydrates. My guess is this food is very low in protein so the bag says to feed 5 cups.

The OP stated that his bag of food stated 5 Cups per day. You can look at your bag of Diamond and I believe it says about 2 cups. No bag's instructions should be taken as gospel but they are pretty close.

Happy Thanksgiving Ezzy...

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Re: Amount to feed

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:05 am

Just a couple of comments and I am through. I am not trying to change your mind Monster Dad but I do want people who are seeking information to have the facts and not someone's opinion that strays from reality. True, those are three major components and are the ones people seem to talk about most, as they all three are very important. But there is so much more to a good feed such as minerals, vitamins, and fiber. And in some cases these are even more important since they are not always in sufficient quantities in the dogs normal environment or diet. Formulating a quality dog food is a major task and not one that can be printed on a bag. But as most people who are competing or aggressively hunting with their dog knows each and everyone of those components of a dog food is absolutely necessary to provide what is essential to the dogs health and energy levels and that includes the carbs you are making the disparaging remarks about. Just remember, dog food manufactures do not spend millions of dollars on research and then formulate a feed that doesn't provide what a dog needs. it is true they can vary the quality to some extent as well as the price to a great extent, but there is not a single company that formulates a feed that doesn't do the job when to even exist the company has to have repeat buyers and that means happy customers that like the food and keep buying.

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Re: Amount to feed

Post by Spy Car » Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:49 pm

The millions of dollars spent by pet food conglomerates go toward marketing, coopting Vetinary schools, and figuring out how to obfuscate food labels to make it appear they have more "meat" than they do by carefully manipulating the percentages of grain (which are split out into rice, wheat gluten, wheat, corn, corn gluten, etc).

There is no reason, contrary to the claim above, why percentages of ingredients can't be printed on a dog food bag.

Most kibbles are over 50% grain. These are cheap fillers, and in these amounts are not anywhere near close to being a species appropriate diet for dogs. It is the canine equivalent of a junk-food diet. That some of these companies have repeat customers is of no more proof of the quality of the nutrition in their food than the fact that McDonald's has repeat customers. Marketing dollars, combined with low cost and the convenience of just pouring food out of a bag does drive sales and profits. But this has nothing to do with spending millions trying to maximize nutrition.

What is maximized are the profits from selling cheap fillers as "food." While canines can assimilate some carbohydrates and survive, there is no way to argue a 50% (or more) starch based diet is either natural, optimal, or healthful.

Bill

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Re: Amount to feed

Post by CDN_Cocker » Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:49 am

Just re-read that you give your Brit 2 cups twice a day at 45 lbs. My cocker is 40 lbs and I feed 2 cups a day TOTAL. I wouldn't think the additional 5 lbs would make a huge difference. I will give him half a cup more on hunting days, or if I know we're going to be out a few times in a week will bump him up to 2.5 cups a day for the week as he runs full bore when out and loses weight quite fast. I wouldn't mind that if he was fat but he is extremely lean and muscular. The vet told me I could stand to keep a bit more fat on him but that is easier said than done. If your bag is telling you to feed MORE than 4 cups a day for his weight I would be buying a different feed. I can't imagine how much of that food someone would go through with a large breed dog.
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Re: Amount to feed

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:08 am

Spy Car wrote:The millions of dollars spent by pet food conglomerates go toward marketing, coopting Vetinary schools, and figuring out how to obfuscate food labels to make it appear they have more "meat" than they do by carefully manipulating the percentages of grain (which are split out into rice, wheat gluten, wheat, corn, corn gluten, etc).

There is no reason, contrary to the claim above, why percentages of ingredients can't be printed on a dog food bag.

Most kibbles are over 50% grain. These are cheap fillers, and in these amounts are not anywhere near close to being a species appropriate diet for dogs. It is the canine equivalent of a junk-food diet. That some of these companies have repeat customers is of no more proof of the quality of the nutrition in their food than the fact that McDonald's has repeat customers. Marketing dollars, combined with low cost and the convenience of just pouring food out of a bag does drive sales and profits. But this has nothing to do with spending millions trying to maximize nutrition.

What is maximized are the profits from selling cheap fillers as "food." While canines can assimilate some carbohydrates and survive, there is no way to argue a 50% (or more) starch based diet is either natural, optimal, or healthful.

Bill
I guess it is good to know what your opinion is but little of what you posted is even based on fact. If you are willing to learn go back and read the hundreds or maybe thousands of posts about dog food that are in the archives. I do not think there is or can be anything posted today that hasn't already been posted a hundred of times. Seems like about every 30 to 60 days we get someone new that decides they need to save the world from all dog food manufacture's but have no facts and little knowledge about how the feed is formulated, manufactures, or even regulated, and then write all of their opinions as though it was fact.

Sorry but we have heard all of this before and have no need to go through it all again. Like I said on the choke chain thread, use whatever you want but for your information read and learn before you decide that everyone should agree with you just because it is what you think. Or maybe it isn't even that but just away to start an argument.
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http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

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Re: Amount to feed

Post by Sharon » Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:51 pm

Every dog is different. Couldn't figure out why my JRT was getting fat. He was stealing the submissive setter's food. :)
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Re: Amount to feed

Post by birddogger » Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:29 pm

FWIW, I never read the directions on the bag. For me, it is a no brainer and very simple. I just keep an eye on the dogs and feed accordingly. I think many people way over think this. JMO.

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Re: Amount to feed

Post by Spy Car » Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:56 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
Spy Car wrote:The millions of dollars spent by pet food conglomerates go toward marketing, coopting Vetinary schools, and figuring out how to obfuscate food labels to make it appear they have more "meat" than they do by carefully manipulating the percentages of grain (which are split out into rice, wheat gluten, wheat, corn, corn gluten, etc).

There is no reason, contrary to the claim above, why percentages of ingredients can't be printed on a dog food bag.

Most kibbles are over 50% grain. These are cheap fillers, and in these amounts are not anywhere near close to being a species appropriate diet for dogs. It is the canine equivalent of a junk-food diet. That some of these companies have repeat customers is of no more proof of the quality of the nutrition in their food than the fact that McDonald's has repeat customers. Marketing dollars, combined with low cost and the convenience of just pouring food out of a bag does drive sales and profits. But this has nothing to do with spending millions trying to maximize nutrition.

What is maximized are the profits from selling cheap fillers as "food." While canines can assimilate some carbohydrates and survive, there is no way to argue a 50% (or more) starch based diet is either natural, optimal, or healthful.

Bill
I guess it is good to know what your opinion is but little of what you posted is even based on fact. If you are willing to learn go back and read the hundreds or maybe thousands of posts about dog food that are in the archives. I do not think there is or can be anything posted today that hasn't already been posted a hundred of times. Seems like about every 30 to 60 days we get someone new that decides they need to save the world from all dog food manufacture's but have no facts and little knowledge about how the feed is formulated, manufactures, or even regulated, and then write all of their opinions as though it was fact.

Sorry but we have heard all of this before and have no need to go through it all again. Like I said on the choke chain thread, use whatever you want but for your information read and learn before you decide that everyone should agree with you just because it is what you think. Or maybe it isn't even that but just away to start an argument.
I've read your back-posts Ezzy. I'm kind of amazed that you where chosen to be a "Moderator" on this forum when you snidely assume anyone who disagrees with you is Iill-informed. It is not a good example to set.

It is quite an assumption to make that everyone (but you) is ignorant of how dog food is manufactured and formulated.

Most kibbles are more than 50% cereal. This is not a natural diet for a dog. I know YOU THINK your an "expert," but you've got it wrong.

Bill

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Re: Amount to feed

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:41 pm

Bill, I notice you like to get personal when anyone questions your post. I have never said I was an expert so I thank you for your vote. If you think it is just me that disagrees with you, how do you explain the fact that 99% of the performance dogs in this country are being fed a kibble that isn't healthful. And they will tell you what their dogs need to perform at those levels. The other thing is I did spend most of my working life working within the industry in varies capacities including many years in quality assurance and that meant working on our research center as well as co-operating with Purina and the University program also.

And by the way no one on this board chose me to be a Moderator as it is not a job that is just fun and games. I guess the thing that makes me feel real good is after 10 or 12 years that we are the largest board of this kind and still the fastest growing so someone is doing things right. Hopefully you will add to our membership and share your knowledge but we do kind of like that info to be some what accurate since we try very hard to be the place where new owners can come for help and receive accurate information when they need it. Even though I have been involved in most aspects of the dog business as well as training, but there are many others that have been involved more recently than I have so I let them do most of the talking on those subjects, but nutrition, manufacturing, marketing. and regulatory is something I do know and though I don't want to tell you or anyone else what to feed I do want you to base your decision on facts and not old wives tales or erroneous opinions.

And for your info we do try to stay on subject without getting personal, in other words dogs and not people.

Ezzy
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Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: Amount to feed

Post by Sharon » Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:22 pm

Spy Car wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:
Spy Car wrote:The millions of dollars spent by pet food conglomerates go toward marketing, coopting Vetinary schools, and figuring out how to obfuscate food labels to make it appear they have more "meat" than they do by carefully manipulating the percentages of grain (which are split out into rice, wheat gluten, wheat, corn, corn gluten, etc).

There is no reason, contrary to the claim above, why percentages of ingredients can't be printed on a dog food bag.

Most kibbles are over 50% grain. These are cheap fillers, and in these amounts are not anywhere near close to being a species appropriate diet for dogs. It is the canine equivalent of a junk-food diet. That some of these companies have repeat customers is of no more proof of the quality of the nutrition in their food than the fact that McDonald's has repeat customers. Marketing dollars, combined with low cost and the convenience of just pouring food out of a bag does drive sales and profits. But this has nothing to do with spending millions trying to maximize nutrition.

What is maximized are the profits from selling cheap fillers as "food." While canines can assimilate some carbohydrates and survive, there is no way to argue a 50% (or more) starch based diet is either natural, optimal, or healthful.

Bill
I guess it is good to know what your opinion is but little of what you posted is even based on fact. If you are willing to learn go back and read the hundreds or maybe thousands of posts about dog food that are in the archives. I do not think there is or can be anything posted today that hasn't already been posted a hundred of times. Seems like about every 30 to 60 days we get someone new that decides they need to save the world from all dog food manufacture's but have no facts and little knowledge about how the feed is formulated, manufactures, or even regulated, and then write all of their opinions as though it was fact.

Sorry but we have heard all of this before and have no need to go through it all again. Like I said on the choke chain thread, use whatever you want but for your information read and learn before you decide that everyone should agree with you just because it is what you think. Or maybe it isn't even that but just away to start an argument.
I've read your back-posts Ezzy. I'm kind of amazed that you where chosen to be a "Moderator" on this forum when you snidely assume anyone who disagrees with you is Iill-informed. It is not a good example to set.

It is quite an assumption to make that everyone (but you) is ignorant of how dog food is manufactured and formulated.

Most kibbles are more than 50% cereal. This is not a natural diet for a dog. I know YOU THINK your an "expert," but you've got it wrong.

Bill
He is an expert on dog food. You have 13 posts and you're wondering what someone who poured their life into this forum is a moderator? :roll:
Ezzy and I don't always agree , but you are way out of line Bud.
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