New Victor Product

[shets114]

http://www.victordogfood.com/nutrapro.html

90% of the 38% protein comes from meat. Should retail for around $45.00

[Neil]

GMO Free? Like that is important in a dog food.

[shets114]

You would be surprised how many times it is asked.

[Eric]

GMO Free? Like that is important in a dog food.

I don't want GMOs in me or my dog.

[Neil]

You would be surprised how many times it is asked.

More surprised it would be answered.

[ezzy333]

What is surprising is we had GMO grain years ago before anyone was concerned and before that we changed by selective breeding. But a couple of years ago someone got all concerned and made a big deal out of nothing.

Ezzy

[quackaddict]

What is surprising is we had GMO grain years ago before anyone was concerned and before that we changed by selective breeding. But a couple of years ago someone got all concerned and made a big deal out of nothing.

Ezzy

Exactly. All of a sudden, GMOs are going to kill us all...

[Neil]

And in truth, GMO s will feed millions in third world countries that would go hungry without them, many dying. I don't much care what silly things they do here, it is disturbing when their ignorance harms others.

[MonsterDad]

What is surprising is we had GMO grain years ago before anyone was concerned and before that we changed by selective breeding. But a couple of years ago someone got all concerned and made a big deal out of nothing.

Ezzy

Factually correct. However, early genetic engineering was aimed at making tomatoes sweeter, slowing down the ripening of sweet corn after it was picked and valuable things like that.

The genetic modifications that are controversial now are plants manufacturing their own pesticides, which are being found in well water and in the umbilical blood of new born babies. This is definitely not cool.

This is also proving to be a bad economic decision for farmers and if you ask farmers by majority they would rather not plant GMO crops.

[ezzy333]

What is surprising is we had GMO grain years ago before anyone was concerned and before that we changed by selective breeding. But a couple of years ago someone got all concerned and made a big deal out of nothing.

Ezzy

Factually correct. However, early genetic engineering was aimed at making tomatoes sweeter, slowing down the ripening of sweet corn after it was picked and valuable things like that.

The genetic modifications that are controversial now are plants manufacturing their own pesticides, which are being found in well water and in the umbilical blood of new born babies. This is definitely not cool.

This is also proving to be a bad economic decision for farmers and if you ask farmers by majority they would rather not plant GMO crops.

Since I have been a farmer all of my life and have worked with them for years I can tell you that farmers can use them or not. No one has ever forced them to plant a certain type of seed. We have been using herbicide resistant plants for years and we are doing it to reduce the herbicides we use to grow a crop and that is good for the environment. Herbicides found in any well water is the result of either a spill or overuse of chemicals and that is exactly what we are fighting and that has been cleaned up. The biggest problem is we have groups like PETA or Green Peace and many others with an agenda and they manufacture problems that they think will aid in advancing their agenda rather than sticking to proven facts.

I'm with you as far as keeping our food and environment clean as everyone else is too, but lets be realistic and not jump off into the deep end because some radical group says something. Farmers would rather plant non GMO seed as an example.

[SCT]

I think it's great that they are producing this new feed and hope it encourages other brands to do the same. It will be very hot food if the fat is high as well (not too high at 18%) so feeding the correct amount for your individual dog will be paramount to it being preferred. And, of course, keeping the price down will be important!

Steve

[Spy Car]

What is surprising is we had GMO grain years ago before anyone was concerned and before that we changed by selective breeding. But a couple of years ago someone got all concerned and made a big deal out of nothing.

Ezzy

Factually correct. However, early genetic engineering was aimed at making tomatoes sweeter, slowing down the ripening of sweet corn after it was picked and valuable things like that.

The genetic modifications that are controversial now are plants manufacturing their own pesticides, which are being found in well water and in the umbilical blood of new born babies. This is definitely not cool.

This is also proving to be a bad economic decision for farmers and if you ask farmers by majority they would rather not plant GMO crops.

Since I have been a farmer all of my life and have worked with them for years I can tell you that farmers can use them or not. No one has ever forced them to plant a certain type of seed. We have been using herbicide resistant plants for years and we are doing it to reduce the herbicides we use to grow a crop and that is good for the environment. Herbicides found in any well water is the result of either a spill or overuse of chemicals and that is exactly what we are fighting and that has been cleaned up. The biggest problem is we have groups like PETA or Green Peace and many others with an agenda and they manufacture problems that they think will aid in advancing their agenda rather than sticking to proven facts.

I'm with you as far as keeping our food and environment clean as everyone else is too, but lets be realistic and not jump off into the deep end because some radical group says something. Farmers would rather plant non GMO seed as an example.

You must be aware that farmers who desire to plant, harvest, and re-plant their own non-GMO seed, and have been vocal in speaking out about GMOs, have been targeted by Monsanto for violating the company's seed patents. When non-GMO pants get pollenated with GMOs (much to the chagrin of organic farmers) the Monsanto genes show up in seed samples. And on that basis Monsanto has sued farmers for re-planting their own seeds.

It is pretty nefarious.

Bill

[MonsterDad]

Ezzy, I was not talking about the herbicide resistant crops. I was talking about Bt producing crops.

Bt from these crops is getting into water supplies and has been found in the blood supply.

[ezzy333]

Ezzy, I was not talking about the herbicide resistant crops. I was talking about Bt producing crops.

Bt from these crops is getting into water supplies and has been found in the blood supply.

BT is not a herbicide but is a element produced naturally and has been used on garden crops for years because it is a natural way to resist or kill certain insects without using herbicides.

[ezzy333]

Factually correct. However, early genetic engineering was aimed at making tomatoes sweeter, slowing down the ripening of sweet corn after it was picked and valuable things like that.

The genetic modifications that are controversial now are plants manufacturing their own pesticides, which are being found in well water and in the umbilical blood of new born babies. This is definitely not cool.

This is also proving to be a bad economic decision for farmers and if you ask farmers by majority they would rather not plant GMO crops.

Since I have been a farmer all of my life and have worked with them for years I can tell you that farmers can use them or not. No one has ever forced them to plant a certain type of seed. We have been using herbicide resistant plants for years and we are doing it to reduce the herbicides we use to grow a crop and that is good for the environment. Herbicides found in any well water is the result of either a spill or overuse of chemicals and that is exactly what we are fighting and that has been cleaned up. The biggest problem is we have groups like PETA or Green Peace and many others with an agenda and they manufacture problems that they think will aid in advancing their agenda rather than sticking to proven facts.

I'm with you as far as keeping our food and environment clean as everyone else is too, but lets be realistic and not jump off into the deep end because some radical group says something. Farmers would rather plant non GMO seed as an example.[/quote]

You must be aware that farmers who desire to plant, harvest, and re-plant their own non-GMO seed, and have been vocal in speaking out about GMOs, have been targeted by Monsanto for violating the company's seed patents. When non-GMO pants get pollenated with GMOs (much to the chagrin of organic farmers) the Monsanto genes show up in seed samples. And on that basis Monsanto has sued farmers for re-planting their own seeds.

It is pretty nefarious.

Bill[/quote]

Bill, what you are talking about are a few people decided to plant their own seed from the crop they raised the previous year which is not allowed when they signed the contract to plant the altered seed. Monsanto has a patent on the seed and can control it for several years till they recoup the dollars spent developing it. And naturally Monsanto sued the people doing it and won. This is not a new scenario as it happens quite often in the world of patents. This is quite familiar to me as we patented several different feeds and then you have to protect that patent. It is another reason why companies do not advertise their formulas since if they did they would be unable to protect their patented material.

The whole thing with GMO grain started in Europe where they did not or could not do the Lab tests so they could not approve it for use in their country. Since then many have done their home work and have approved it but in the mean time you had several activist groups pick up on it and started advertising a lot of false information and of course you have a lot of people who operate on the theory everyone is out to get them for some unknown reason continue to make a fuss about it.

By the way, I doubt if you know that we need to do away with the color blue because it will kill you as proven when we dye bedding material blue baby chicks all die. Try it if you don't believe it and then you can join our group that is going to outlaw any one using the color blue. I kind of doubt if we can remove it from existence but we certainly can make it unlawful and prove it is hazardous to our health.

Ezzy

[MonsterDad]

Ezzy, I was not talking about the herbicide resistant crops. I was talking about Bt producing crops.

Bt from these crops is getting into water supplies and has been found in the blood supply.

BT is not a herbicide but is a element produced naturally and has been used on garden crops for years because it is a natural way to resist or kill certain insects without using herbicides.

Yes it is natural but so is snake venom. Would you self inject snake venom? Bt is highly toxic. We don't need plants that make their own.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... foods.aspx

[oldbeek]

Few bullet points. It is found in our water. Computers are now finding parts per trillion. 1 Part per trillion. So what. 2. It is GMO free. You really think the buyer for victor researches the true source of the feed stock? The broker will tell you anything. Like organic honey. If I don't sell over 6,000 lbs of honey a year. I can sell all of it as organic. Just a BS sales gimmick to feed the cool aid drinkers.

[luvthemud]

How bout that new victor dog food? Lol!

[ezzy333]

Ezzy, I was not talking about the herbicide resistant crops. I was talking about Bt producing crops.

Bt from these crops is getting into water supplies and has been found in the blood supply.

BT is not a herbicide but is a element produced naturally and has been used on garden crops for years because it is a natural way to resist or kill certain insects without using herbicides.

Just a little info about BT

Yes it is natural but so is snake venom. Would you self inject snake venom? Bt is highly toxic. We don't need plants that make their own.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... foods.aspx

Use of Bt genes in genetic engineering of plants for pest control[edit]

The Belgian company Plant Genetic Systems (now part of Bayer CropScience) was the first company (in 1985) to develop genetically modified crops (tobacco) with insect tolerance by expressing cry genes from B. thuringiensis; the resulting crops contain delta endotoxin.[36][37] The Bt tobacco was never commercialized; tobacco plants are used to test genetic modifications since they are easy to manipulate genetically and are not part of the food supply.[38][39]

Bt toxins present in peanut leaves (bottom image) protect it from extensive damage caused by Lesser Cornstalk Borer larvae (top image).[40]
Usage[edit]

In 1995, potato plants producing CRY 3A Bt toxin were approved safe by the Environmental Protection Agency, making it the first human-modified pesticide-producing crop to be approved in the USA,[41][42] though many plants produce pesticides naturally, including tobacco, coffee plants, cocoa, and black walnut. This was the 'New Leaf' potato, and it was removed from the market in 2001 due to lack of interest.[43] For current crops and their acreage under cultivation, see genetically modified crops.

In 1996, genetically modified maize producing Bt Cry protein was approved, which killed the European corn borer and related species; subsequent Bt genes were introduced that killed corn rootworm larvae.[44]

The Bt genes engineered into crops and approved for release include, singly and stacked: Cry1A.105, CryIAb, CryIF, Cry2Ab, Cry3Bb1, Cry34Ab1, Cry35Ab1, mCry3A, and VIP, and the engineered crops include corn and cotton.[45][46]:285ff Corn genetically modified to produce VIP was first approved in the US in 2010.[47] Monsanto developed a soybean expressing Cry1Ac and the glyphosate-resistance gene for the Brazilian market, which completed the Brazilian regulatory process in 2010.[48][49]

Kenyans examining insect-resistant transgenic Bt corn
Insect resistance[edit]

In November 2009, Monsanto scientists found the pink bollworm had become resistant to the first-generation Bt cotton in parts of Gujarat, India - that generation expresses one Bt gene, Cry1Ac. This was the first instance of Bt resistance confirmed by Monsanto anywhere in the world.[50][51] Monsanto immediately responded by introducing a second-generation cotton with multiple Bt proteins, which was rapidly adopted.[50] Bollworm resistance to first-generation Bt cotton was also identified in Australia, China, Spain, and the United States.[52]

Secondary pests[edit]

Several studies have documented surges in "sucking pests" (which are not affected by Bt toxins) within a few years of adoption of Bt cotton. In China, the main problem has been with mirids,[53][54] which have in some cases "completely eroded all benefits from Bt cotton cultivation”.[55] The increase in sucking pests depended on local temperature and rainfall conditions and increased in half the villages studied. The increase in insecticide use for the control of these secondary insects was far smaller than the reduction in total insecticide use due to Bt cotton adoption.[56] Another study in five provinces in China found the reduction in pesticide use in Bt cotton cultivars is significantly lower than that reported in research elsewhere, consistent with the hypothesis suggested by recent studies that more pesticide sprayings are needed over time to control emerging secondary pests, such as aphids, spider mites, and lygus bugs.[57]

Similar problems have been reported in India, with both mealy bugs[58][59] and aphids[60] although a survey of small Indian farms between 2002 and 2008 concluded Bt cotton adoption has led to higher yields and lower pesticide use, decreasing over time.[61]

Controversies[edit]

Main article: Genetically modified food controversies

There are controversies around GMOs on several levels, including whether making them is ethical, whether food produced with them is safe, whether such food should be labeled and if so how, whether agricultural biotech is needed to address world hunger now or in the future, and more specifically to GM crops—intellectual property and market dynamics; environmental effects of GM crops; and GM crops' role in industrial agricultural more generally.[62] There are also issues specific to Bt transgenic crops.

Lepidopteran toxicity[edit]

The most publicised problem associated with Bt crops is the claim that pollen from Bt maize could kill the monarch butterfly.[63] The paper produced a public uproar and demonstrations against Bt maize; however by 2001 several follow-up studies coordinated by the USDA had proven that "the most common types of Bt maize pollen are not toxic to monarch larvae in concentrations the insects would encounter in the fields."[64][65][66][67]

Wild maize genetic mixing[edit]

A study published in Nature in 2001 reported Bt-containing maize genes were found in maize in its center of origin, Oaxaca, Mexico.[68] In 2002, paper concluded, "the evidence available is not sufficient to justify the publication of the original paper."[69] A significant controversy happened over the paper and Nature‍ '​s unprecedented notice.[70][71]

A subsequent large-scale study, in 2005, failed to find any evidence of genetic mixing in Oaxaca.[72] A 2007 study found the "transgenic proteins expressed in maize were found in two (0.96%) of 208 samples from farmers' fields, located in two (8%) of 25 sampled communities." Mexico imports a substantial amount of maize from the US, and due to formal and informal seed networks among rural farmers, many potential routes are available for transgenic maize to enter into food and feed webs.[73] One study found small-scale (about 1%) introduction of transgenic sequences in sampled fields in Mexico; it did not find evidence for or against this introduced genetic material being inherited by the next generation of plants.[74][75] That study was immediately criticized, with the reviewer writing, "Genetically, any given plant should be either nontransgenic or transgenic, therefore for leaf tissue of a single transgenic plant, a GMO level close to 100% is expected. In their study, the authors chose to classify leaf samples as transgenic despite GMO levels of about 0.1%. We contend that results such as these are incorrectly interpreted as positive and are more likely to be indicative of contamination in the laboratory."[76]

Colony collapse disorder[edit]

As of 2007, a new phenomenon called colony collapse disorder (CCD) began affecting bee hives all over North America. Initial speculation on possible causes included new parasites, pesticide use,[77] and the use of Bt transgenic crops.[78] The Mid-Atlantic Apiculture Research and Extension Consortium found no evidence that pollen from Bt crops is adversely affecting bees.[64][79] According to the USDA, "Genetically modified (GM) crops, most commonly Bt corn, have been offered up as the cause of CCD. But there is no correlation between where GM crops are planted and the pattern of CCD incidents. Also, GM crops have been widely planted since the late 1990s, but CCD did not appear until 2006. In addition, CCD has been reported in countries that do not allow GM crops to be planted, such as Switzerland. German researchers have noted in one study a possible correlation between exposure to Bt pollen and compromised immunity to Nosema."[80] The actual cause of CCD was unknown in 2007, and scientists believe it may have multiple exacerbating causes.[81]

Beta-exotoxins[edit]

Some isolates of B. thuringiensis produce a class of insecticidal small molecules called beta-exotoxin, the common name for which is thuringiensin.[82] A consensus document produced by the OECD says: "Beta-exotoxin and the other Bacillus toxins may contribute to the insecticidal toxicity of the bacterium to lepidopteran, dipteran, and coleopteran insects. Beta-exotoxin is known to be toxic to humans and almost all other forms of life and its presence is prohibited in B. thuringiensis microbial products. Engineering of plants to contain and express only the genes for δ-endotoxins avoids the problem of assessing the risks posed by these other toxins that may be produced in microbial preparations."[83]

[Spy Car]

Bill, what you are talking about are a few people decided to plant their own seed from the crop they raised the previous year which is not allowed when they signed the contract to plant the altered seed. Monsanto has a patent on the seed and can control it for several years till they recoup the dollars spent developing it. And naturally Monsanto sued the people doing it and won. This is not a new scenario as it happens quite often in the world of patents. This is quite familiar to me as we patented several different feeds and then you have to protect that patent. It is another reason why companies do not advertise their formulas since if they did they would be unable to protect their patented material.

The whole thing with GMO grain started in Europe where they did not or could not do the Lab tests so they could not approve it for use in their country. Since then many have done their home work and have approved it but in the mean time you had several activist groups pick up on it and started advertising a lot of false information and of course you have a lot of people who operate on the theory everyone is out to get them for some unknown reason continue to make a fuss about it.

By the way, I doubt if you know that we need to do away with the color blue because it will kill you as proven when we dye bedding material blue baby chicks all die. Try it if you don't believe it and then you can join our group that is going to outlaw any one using the color blue. I kind of doubt if we can remove it from existence but we certainly can make it unlawful and prove it is hazardous to our health.

Ezzy

No Ezzy, that is NOT what I'm talking about. Yes, there have been cases of people trying to illegally re-plant Monsanto based seed that are patent protected and breaching contracts. This is true.

HOWEVER, Monsanto has also gone after GMO critics who don't want their seed "contaminated" (in their eyes) by GMO pollen—but have been—who Monsanto has (in an act that adds insult to injury) then sued those farmers when unwanted GMO genes appear in the farmer's seeds due to pollen drift.

They have done this to actively punish and silence its critics. Pretty nasty tactics.

Bill

[ezzy333]

Doesn't sound like much of a case when people not even involved have already found who is guilty and why. Just glad I am here in the heart of the corn and soybean growing country and we aren't having those problems.

[CWT]

Since when did Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) become toxic to humans???? I guess you read that on the internet somewhere!

[Spy Car]

Doesn't sound like much of a case when people not even involved have already found who is guilty and why. Just glad I am here in the heart of the corn and soybean growing country and we aren't having those problems.

You must not be paying attention Ezzy, because these cases of Monsanto seeing farmers who've been active against GMOs have taken place in corn and soybean country.

Bill

[ACooper]

The issues with Monsanto have nothing to do with GMO crops, the issue with Monsanto are solely related to their business practices IMO.

[MonsterDad]

Joni Mitchell said it best:

"Hey farmer farmer
Put away that DDT (and GMO's) now
Give me spots on my apples
But leave me the birds and the bees
Please!"

[CWT]

Ever wonder why there are no spots on those organically grown apples?

[ezzy333]

Organically grown does not mean chemically free even though that is pretty much what people have been led to think.

[MonsterDad]

Organically grown does not mean chemically free even though that is pretty much what people have been led to think.

Very true, copper based fungicides are allowed on organic fruit.

I am more worried about freaky genetic engineering.

Unless the sweet corn is a true heirloom variety we don't eat it. We eat no soy because of its effect on thyroid function and we only eat and cook with cold pressed olive oil, no canola oil, no corn oil, no sunflower or safflower.

Trader Joe's Calamata Greek Olive Oil is $8.99 for a whole liter. Cold pressed and unfiltered.

[ezzy333]

Organically grown does not mean chemically free even though that is pretty much what people have been led to think.

Very true, copper based fungicides are allowed on organic fruit.

I am more worried about freaky genetic engineering.

Unless the sweet corn is a true heirloom variety we don't eat it. We eat no soy because of its effect on thyroid function and we only eat and cook with cold pressed olive oil, no canola oil, no corn oil, no sunflower or safflower.

Trader Joe's Calamata Greek Olive Oil is $8.99 for a whole liter. Cold pressed and unfiltered.

Good to hear you have found the secret to good health and long life plus most importantly you are happy with the results. I have the same situation and it keeps me healthy and happy too. Only difference is I eat everyone of the things you don't so we are keeping every thing in balance. Hope you do know the super sweet corns are not the result of any GMO lab work as they were being developed back when I was in school at the U.of Illinois where it was first discovered and was called Illini Super Sweet. Has more sugar and that allows it to stay sweet for a lot longer after picking. Really good stuff.