low blood sugar seizures

Post Reply
User avatar
dog dr
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:02 pm
Location: Pike County, IL

low blood sugar seizures

Post by dog dr » Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:31 am

I have a client that trains all age pointers, and of course his number 1 prospect suffers from this malady. He asked me if I had ever seen a dog grow out of that condition. I had to say no, but wondered if any of you had seen such an affected dog eventually not have problems with it.

User avatar
Sharon
GDF Junkie
Posts: 9113
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 4:46 pm
Location: Ontario,Canada

Re: low blood sugar seizures

Post by Sharon » Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:15 pm

Now where have you been ? I've missed you.:) ( No experience with your question.)
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

User avatar
ezzy333
GDF Junkie
Posts: 16625
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:14 pm
Location: Dixon IL

Re: low blood sugar seizures

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:58 pm

dog dr wrote:I have a client that trains all age pointers, and of course his number 1 prospect suffers from this malady. He asked me if I had ever seen a dog grow out of that condition. I had to say no, but wondered if any of you had seen such an affected dog eventually not have problems with it.
My only experience has been sporadic. Never a regular problem.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

dirtman
Rank: Just A Pup
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:22 am
Location: Kingman AZ

Re: low blood sugar seizures

Post by dirtman » Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:51 am

I don't know if this would help but just a tidbit of info from my experience. My wife has a Yorkie that is 9 years old and has had seizures all his life sometimes three a week, we had to take him in for blood test and put him on phenobarbital. Sorry to admit but we were feeding cheap dog food for years because at the time we had many dogs . Now that we are down to three, 2 Yorkies and 1 GSP we are now feeding a five star grain free food and since we started it has been 4 mos and the Yorkie has not had one seizure, he is off the drugs and is a much happier healthy looking dog. I don't know the science behind it but it worked for us.

nevermind
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:02 am

Re: low blood sugar seizures

Post by nevermind » Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:50 am

I have a dog getting close to 12yrs of age that has a problem with low blood sugar. I'm not sure what you mean by seizures, as my dog just quits hunting and is lethargic until his blood sugar levels come back. Strange to me... is the few times this accures is when I hunt him in early part of the hunting season when temps. are in the +50 degs. never had a problem when hunting him in colder weather anyway this problem hasn't gotten better or worst with age.

reba
Rank: 4X Champion
Posts: 626
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:50 am
Location: Central Coast of CA

Re: low blood sugar seizures

Post by reba » Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:52 am


User avatar
Spy Car
Rank: 3X Champion
Posts: 552
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:53 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: low blood sugar seizures

Post by Spy Car » Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:51 am

dog dr wrote:I have a client that trains all age pointers, and of course his number 1 prospect suffers from this malady. He asked me if I had ever seen a dog grow out of that condition. I had to say no, but wondered if any of you had seen such an affected dog eventually not have problems with it.
Were I a veterinarian (I'm not), I'd ask myself what is the prime culprit in a dog's diet that is tied to blood sugar problems? That would be a simple answer, it is carbohydrates.

Then I'd ask if carbohydrates are necessary in a canine diet? The world's leading scientific authority on dog nutrition, the National Research Council, has determined that dogs have no requirements for carbohydrates in their diet. None.

Then I'd ask, what about performance if carbs are eliminated? And I'd read the scientific studies on sled dogs (including those of Reynolds), the Greyhound studies, Hunting dog studies, and the Iams study that compare high protein high fat diet with ones higher in carbohydrates. In every single instance dogs fed high protein high fat perform better (much better).

Burning fats is very efficient (and natural for dogs) and the delivery of sugars is extremely stable. The ups and downs of blood-sugar levels and insulin responses that are inevitable with a cereal-based diet do not happen when dogs eat meat, fat, bones, organs and other animal parts.

I'd read the studies and make a professional judgement. My hunch is moving the dog to a balanced Prey-Model raw diet would both improve the dogs stamina and overall health, but also (very directly) get at the root-cause of the low blood sugar problem.

Good luck,

Bill

User avatar
ezzy333
GDF Junkie
Posts: 16625
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:14 pm
Location: Dixon IL

Re: low blood sugar seizures

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:42 pm

Spy Car wrote:
dog dr wrote:I have a client that trains all age pointers, and of course his number 1 prospect suffers from this malady. He asked me if I had ever seen a dog grow out of that condition. I had to say no, but wondered if any of you had seen such an affected dog eventually not have problems with it.
Were I a veterinarian (I'm not), I'd ask myself what is the prime culprit in a dog's diet that is tied to blood sugar problems? That would be a simple answer, it is carbohydrates.

Then I'd ask if carbohydrates are necessary in a canine diet? The world's leading scientific authority on dog nutrition, the National Research Council, has determined that dogs have no requirements for carbohydrates in their diet. None.

Then I'd ask, what about performance if carbs are eliminated? And I'd read the scientific studies on sled dogs (including those of Reynolds), the Greyhound studies, Hunting dog studies, and the Iams study that compare high protein high fat diet with ones higher in carbohydrates. In every single instance dogs fed high protein high fat perform better (much better).

Burning fats is very efficient (and natural for dogs) and the delivery of sugars is extremely stable. The ups and downs of blood-sugar levels and insulin responses that are inevitable with a cereal-based diet do not happen when dogs eat meat, fat, bones, organs and other animal parts.

I'd read the studies and make a professional judgement. My hunch is moving the dog to a balanced Prey-Model raw diet would both improve the dogs stamina and overall health, but also (very directly) get at the root-cause of the low blood sugar problem.

Good luck,

Bill
I like this measured response. However, there needs to be some other points addressed. I think the original post was asking if anyone had experience with a dog that has a problem with low blood sugar get over the problem as it grows or matures. In other words it was not asking for an opinion of what was causing it or what effect diet has on changing the problem. It sounds to me like the dog is eating the same feed as the other dogs, is working like the other dogs, but is having a problem that the other dogs are not experiencing so it is evident the cause is an internal difference in how it metabolizes the food it is eating or possibly just burning it faster or possibly some other reason it is having the problem. I really think that a Vet might just have a clue about the effects of diet but in this case what isn't clear is does the condition change over time.

I know it can get worse but have never seen it get better, however, I have extremely limited exposure to the problem other than just isolated instances and not a habitual problem which I think is probably a much different problem.

If I were a Vet, I probably would try to answer another Vets question and not use it to try to question his knowledge or promote my agenda of convincing the vast majority of people they know not how to feed a dog even if their method is a proven to be more than adequate for a normal dog to live a long healthy life.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

User avatar
Spy Car
Rank: 3X Champion
Posts: 552
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:53 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: low blood sugar seizures

Post by Spy Car » Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:56 pm

ezzy333 wrote: I like this measured response. However, there needs to be some other points addressed. I think the original post was asking if anyone had experience with a dog that has a problem with low blood sugar get over the problem as it grows or matures. In other words it was not asking for an opinion of what was causing it or what effect diet has on changing the problem. It sounds to me like the dog is eating the same feed as the other dogs, is working like the other dogs, but is having a problem that the other dogs are not experiencing so it is evident the cause is an internal difference in how it metabolizes the food it is eating or possibly just burning it faster or possibly some other reason it is having the problem. I really think that a Vet might just have a clue about the effects of diet but in this case what isn't clear is does the condition change over time.

I know it can get worse but have never seen it get better, however, I have extremely limited exposure to the problem other than just isolated instances and not a habitual problem which I think is probably a much different problem.

If I were a Vet, I probably would try to answer another Vets question and not use it to try to question his knowledge or promote my agenda of convincing the vast majority of people they know not how to feed a dog even if their method is a proven to be more than adequate for a normal dog to live a long healthy life.
I have not owned a dog with blood-sugar issues, or one that has had seizures. I do know of people who've turned to raw diets for both hypoglycemic and diabetic dogs with good success.

The physiology is well understood. Getting to the root causes of problems is always the smart option when confronting health problems. If a dog is having seizures occurring due to low blood sugar problems resulting from eating a cereal-based diet, it is smart to look at alternatives, given the role of carbohydrates in blood-sugar problems is well-understood.

It is not reasonable to think the dog might improve, if the diet doesn't change. All dogs that metabolize fat (as opposed to carbohydrates) as their primal fuel source (with proteins second) show very even and sustained energy delivery. All dogs perform better on such diets, for one with seizures the upsides increase exponentially. Removing the trigger to reduce the seizures makes sense.

Bill

nevermind
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:02 am

Re: low blood sugar seizures

Post by nevermind » Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:43 pm

Bill... I don't feed my above mentioned dog raw food, but he's been on grain free dog food for atleast 5yrs. I do realize this is a case study of one on my part, but I didn't find feeding grain free food being a cure as the dog still had episodes of low blood sugar. This dog had great stamina, but age is catching up to him. Thinking out loud here, but I wonder if higher energy dogs that cover alot of ground are more prone to depleting blood sugar, so what's to do other that resting and waiting for levels to stablize.... seems to me you can only put so much sugar in the tank, so to speak.

User avatar
Spy Car
Rank: 3X Champion
Posts: 552
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:53 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: low blood sugar seizures

Post by Spy Car » Fri Mar 04, 2016 3:23 pm

nevermind wrote:Bill... I don't feed my above mentioned dog raw food, but he's been on grain free dog food for atleast 5yrs. I do realize this is a case study of one on my part, but I didn't find feeding grain free food being a cure as the dog still had episodes of low blood sugar. This dog had great stamina, but age is catching up to him. Thinking out loud here, but I wonder if higher energy dogs that cover alot of ground are more prone to depleting blood sugar, so what's to do other that resting and waiting for levels to stablize.... seems to me you can only put so much sugar in the tank, so to speak.
It would not be reasonable to expect a positive improvement by switching to a "grain-fee" formula, as those formulas just replace the carbohydrates from grain with carbohydrates from other sources, some of which (like potatoes) have a higher glycemic index than grains. I would not be surprised if some "grain-free" formulas were worse than ones with grain.

Whats been shown in many tests on performance dogs with regard to blood glycogen, is that carb-fed dogs start with very high levels, but that energy is rapidly used up, and not quickly replenished. Where fat burning dogs start with lower levels of blood glycogen, but the sustrained release of sugars remains remarkably constant.

Bill

User avatar
ezzy333
GDF Junkie
Posts: 16625
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:14 pm
Location: Dixon IL

Re: low blood sugar seizures

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 3:38 pm

Spy Car wrote:
nevermind wrote:Bill... I don't feed my above mentioned dog raw food, but he's been on grain free dog food for atleast 5yrs. I do realize this is a case study of one on my part, but I didn't find feeding grain free food being a cure as the dog still had episodes of low blood sugar. This dog had great stamina, but age is catching up to him. Thinking out loud here, but I wonder if higher energy dogs that cover alot of ground are more prone to depleting blood sugar, so what's to do other that resting and waiting for levels to stablize.... seems to me you can only put so much sugar in the tank, so to speak.
It would not be reasonable to expect a positive improvement by switching to a "grain-fee" formula, as those formulas just replace the carbohydrates from grain with carbohydrates from other sources, some of which (like potatoes) have a higher glycemic index than grains. I would not be surprised if some "grain-free" formulas were worse than ones with grain.

Whats been shown in many tests on performance dogs with regard to blood glycogen, is that carb-fed dogs start with very high levels, but that energy is rapidly used up, and not quickly replenished. Where fat burning dogs start with lower levels of blood glycogen, but the sustrained release of sugars remains remarkably constant.

Bill


Bill, do you not understand what Doc asked? He didn't need advice on feeding the dog but just asked if anyone had seen a dog get better that suffers from low blood sugar seizures. I am guessing that a trainer with a big string of dogs is not going to be real interested in having to mess with feeding a dog the raw feed you are advocating but is more interested in curing the problem or at least giving the dog time to get well.

Lets just stick to the issue and not ruin a topic where someone asks a specific question and wants an answer. You and I both seem to not be qualified to answer since we have not seen a dog get better.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

User avatar
Spy Car
Rank: 3X Champion
Posts: 552
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:53 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: low blood sugar seizures

Post by Spy Car » Fri Mar 04, 2016 3:50 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
Bill, do you not understand what Doc asked? He didn't need advice on feeding the dog but just asked if anyone had seen a dog get better that suffers from low blood sugar seizures. I am guessing that a trainer with a big string of dogs is not going to be real interested in having to mess with feeding a dog the raw feed you are advocating but is more interested in curing the problem or at least giving the dog time to get well.

Lets just stick to the issue and not ruin a topic where someone asks a specific question and wants an answer. You and I both seem to not be qualified to answer since we have not seen a dog get better.
Ezzy, I'm quite certain the good doctor is capable of speaking for himself, and evaluating ideas that in his estimation may (or many not) help provide relief for his patient.

I understand you feel some need to defend the honor of the dog food industry in which you worked, but it gets old.

I wouldn't presume an owner of a suffering dog would not give it relief from seizures if something as simple as a dietary change helped his number one dog.

Bill

User avatar
BirdyBoris
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:23 pm
Location: Cape Elizabeth Maine

Re: low blood sugar seizures

Post by BirdyBoris » Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:39 pm

As expensive as they are diagnostics can tell us a lot and can rule out many issues. I have worked in the veterinary field for 10 years. Addison's disease , thyroid, liver and pancreases issues can all cause seizures as well as exersise excursion. I do believe diet plays a large role in a dogs overall health, that being said So does genetics. I feed mind a grain free diet and i add probiotic for exciting/stressful times for GI health. If my dog was seizing I was ask for a full chemistry with a Blood glucose ,pancreatitis snap and a ACTCH Stem( for addisons) , T4 . Start with the chem.Thats what i would do for my kids. Best of luck !!

crouchgc
Rank: Just A Pup
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 11:20 am

Re: low blood sugar seizures

Post by crouchgc » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:45 pm

Had a EP with seizures caused by low blood sugar. Had to start carrying bread in a zip lock bag with honey on hunting trips. Hunted that dog for 14 years.

User avatar
dog dr
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:02 pm
Location: Pike County, IL

Re: low blood sugar seizures

Post by dog dr » Fri May 06, 2016 2:54 pm

Apparently the answer is yes, some dogs will grow out of it. The original dog in question no longer has a problem and is doing great.

User avatar
luvthemud
Rank: Champion
Posts: 328
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:54 pm
Location: The Holyland, WI

Re: low blood sugar seizures

Post by luvthemud » Sat May 07, 2016 6:31 am

dog dr wrote:Apparently the answer is yes, some dogs will grow out of it. The original dog in question no longer has a problem and is doing great.
Great news. Did the dogs blood sugar rise, or did the seizures just stop?

User avatar
dog dr
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:02 pm
Location: Pike County, IL

Re: low blood sugar seizures

Post by dog dr » Sat May 07, 2016 7:46 am

the dog just eventually stopped having the seizures. I suspect that as he built endurance, his body got used to the stress and learned to compensate.

User avatar
CDN_Cocker
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 1416
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:59 pm
Location: ON, Canada

Re: low blood sugar seizures

Post by CDN_Cocker » Sun May 08, 2016 6:59 am

What age did it stop? I have experienced this with my dog. Usually when its a perfect storm - if he has ran longer than usual and then he gets wet and cold. I always carry snacks now just in case. If I see him starting to slow down or act funny I stop and give him some sugary snacks like a nutrigrain bar. He had a full on seizure only once when he was younger, the first time it happened. Since then I am always very mindful to watch for the early signs so it doesn't happen. Last year there was one time where we were hunting an unfamiliar area for much longer than we normally would... then near the end he ended up jumping and swimming in a cold pond... within a couple of minutes of getting out he started getting disoriented and twitchy so I knew it was coming on. I stopped, warmed him up and fed him. Within 5 minutes he was back to bouncing off the walls. Really hope he outgrows it.
Cass
"If you train a young dog for momentum, precision will arrive. If you train for precision, demanding perfection, momentum will depart." - Rex Carr

oregon woodsmoke
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:11 pm
Location: North Idaho

Re: low blood sugar seizures

Post by oregon woodsmoke » Tue May 17, 2016 4:08 pm

Low blood sugar is a frequent problem with Papillons (one of my breeds). They have to be fed several times a day when they are puppies. They do grow out of it, although everyone I know with Papillons feeds twice a day for the entire life.

I have no experience with large dogs who suffer from low blood sugar, but the easiest solution would be to carry a few snacks and give the dog a couple of bites of something every now and again. It doesn't have to be much, just a small nibble. That will even out the blood sugar.

I'd also get the dog tested for diabetes, just in case.

I tend to feed dried meat or cheese as snacks, but something easy to carry out in the field, like a chunk broken off a granola bar, would be enough.

User avatar
SetterNut
Rank: 4X Champion
Posts: 663
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:16 am
Location: Manhattan, KS

Re: low blood sugar seizures

Post by SetterNut » Tue May 17, 2016 9:38 pm

My experience is that it tends to get worse as they get older.
Steve

Post Reply