Itching, Scratching and Biting

by **Dakotazeb** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:50 am

My 7 month old female Brittany has been itching, scratching and biting at herself since I got her about a month and a half ago. It's not fleas and I have her on Frontline. She also has no hot spots. It seems to be very general and not one particular area. We've tried some shampoos, adding oil to her food, and I also switched her to a grain free formula of dog food and none of that seems to have helped. I can't say the itching scratching and biting is excessive but it sure is more than normal. Any ideas or suggestions?

by **ezzy333** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:22 am

Try topical Ivomec. Sounds like it could be lice or mites and Ivomec will stop those.

by **jetjockey** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:24 pm

Might want to have her checked for mites. My brothers Brit had them and several vets mis-diagnosed her for months. They switched Vets and that Vet diagnosed her immediately. Shs had very similar symptoms.

by **Timewise65** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:24 pm

When my pup was young, she got a form of Mange, not the type that makes the hair fall of but a type that drives the dogs nuts itching. Our vet helped us deal with it and following that she has had no reoccurrences. Just another option to consider...

by **Dakotazeb** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:37 am

Per my vet we are starting her on injections of Ivermectin. One a month for three months. If it is mites, that should help. If it doesn't, then we probably have a different issue we are dealing with.

by **polmaise** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:26 am

Dakotazeb wrote:My 7 month old female Brittany has been itching, scratching and biting at herself since I got her about a month and a half ago.

Dakotazeb wrote:I picked up a 6 month old female Brittany 2 weeks ago. The dog had lived in an outside kennel until she came to us so we have been working on house breaking her.

More likely to be Lice as has been said.
It may also be an idea to ask the wife if she uses any powders or sprays on the carpet or fabrics ,air freshener's etc.

by **Dakotazeb** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:48 am

polmaise wrote:More likely to be Lice as has been said.
It may also be an idea to ask the wife if she uses any powders or sprays on the carpet or fabrics ,air freshener's etc.

It's definitely not lice. We would see and notice them. Most likely it's mites. Our home here in AZ has tile floors for it's not anything in the carpet.

by **jetjockey** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:32 am

The problem with mites is rarely do Vets find the actual mites themselves, they just see the signs. Mites are incredibly contagious, so you might want to mention it to your breeder if the Ivermectin clears it up. Mites are the reason I am religious about treating my dogs for fleas and ticks every month. The flea and tick meds also protect against mites.

by **Dakotazeb** » Fri May 12, 2017 11:30 am

I see it's been over two months since I've posted anything on this thread. We are still fighting the problem. In March it got so bad we had to put her on Temaril-P to relieve the itching. It worked well. We kept her on it until we returned to SD from AZ in hopes that there was something in the AZ environment that was causing the problem. She did seem better after returning to SD on April 9th but then got worse as we weaned her off the Temaril-P. So she was given an injection of Cytopoint to relieve the itching. Cytopoint can last 4-8 weeks and it has worked. But we are still not to the root of the problem. The past 2-3 weeks she has really lost a considerable amount of hair on the rear half of her body. My vet here in SD did do some skin scrapings for mites and they were negative which is not uncommon. The little buggers are hard to find. We also did a complete blood workup, checked for Lyme disease and everything else. All normal. My vet suggested seeing a vet dermatologist as allergies were still a possibility. I was actually not very happy with my vet so yesterday I took her to a different vet. This vet is quite certain that it's not allergies. They did some skin scrapings also and they were negative. But this vet is very confident that what we are dealing with is Demodectic Mange. They took a couple of biopsies to see if the Demodectic mites are present. It will be about 5 days before I have the results. I know that Demodectic mites are present in all dogs and only cause a problem when the dog has a weakened immune system. It is easily treatable but also something that the we may have to deal with for the life of the dog. There is a chance she could grow out of it. If it is Demodectic Mange the treatment will be Bravecto, which is use to prevent fleas and ticks. In reading about Bravecto it has been tested and proven effective in killing Demodectic mites.

I'm just curious if anyone else has dealt with Demodectic mites?

by **dog dr** » Fri May 19, 2017 7:54 am

Have seen demodex a number of times, and they are actually pretty easy to find on a skin scrape. Sarcoptic mange are the hard ones to find, but they respond quite well to the ivomec, in my opinion. Ivomec will get demodex as well, but you have to give it every day. Also, in my experience if it was mites, the temaril P should have made things worse, not better. Since the Temaril P seemed to help, I would lean more toward an allergy issue. This is all based on my general experience since i havent seen your dog, but, common things occur commonly. Ask the vet about Apoquel. Or, try a Depo Medrol injection, and if that helps chances are its allergies. Something else to consider would be a "flea bite allergy". I know your on Frontline, and the fleas should die when they bite, but if the dog is allergic to the fleas saliva the damage is already done. Good luck, itchy dogs can be frustrating to treat.

by **shags** » Fri May 19, 2017 8:25 am

Once upon a time I worked at a vet's office where we had a rescue dog as a mascot. The dog was sleek, trim, and shiny until she wasn't. Her skin got scurfy, hair fell out, and she itched like crazy. Of course the vet did just about every test and treatment for her to no avail. The only thing left to consider was her diet, which was a mainstream product that she'd been fed all her life. The dog was switched to another mainstream brand and her skin cleared up pretty quickly.

So, maybe....

by **Dakotazeb** » Fri May 19, 2017 10:19 am

dog dr wrote:Have seen demodex a number of times, and they are actually pretty easy to find on a skin scrape. Sarcoptic mange are the hard ones to find, but they respond quite well to the ivomec, in my opinion. Ivomec will get demodex as well, but you have to give it every day. Also, in my experience if it was mites, the temaril P should have made things worse, not better. Since the Temaril P seemed to help, I would lean more toward an allergy issue. This is all based on my general experience since i havent seen your dog, but, common things occur commonly. Ask the vet about Apoquel. Or, try a Depo Medrol injection, and if that helps chances are its allergies. Something else to consider would be a "flea bite allergy". I know your on Frontline, and the fleas should die when they bite, but if the dog is allergic to the fleas saliva the damage is already done. Good luck, itchy dogs can be frustrating to treat.

I'm still waiting for the final pathology results from the biopsies. But the last the vet heard it didn't look like Demodex. I agree that the Temaril-P could have made the situation worse with the Prednisone in it slowing down the immune system. I have talked to the vet about Apoquel but it is not approved for dogs under 12 months of age. About 3 weeks ago she did get an injection of Cytopoint and that has pretty much eliminated the itching. Chances are we are back looking at allergies. I did switch dog foods for over 2 months (went to a grain free and different protein source) but it didn't appear to help at all. Probably going to have to seek the help of a vet dermatologist.

by **zrp** » Fri May 19, 2017 11:57 am

It's young for allergies of that severity but, like Dog Dr, I'd consider flea allergies given the pattern of hairloss. In my experience, demodex presents more severely on the face and feet due to the way it's transmitted. 1 flea bites 300+ times a day and a very sensitive dog will react to a just a few bites. You can do a great job with flea control but if your neighbor doesn't...

by **Sharon** » Fri May 19, 2017 4:53 pm

Dakotazeb wrote:My 7 month old female Brittany has been itching, scratching and biting at herself since I got her about a month and a half ago. It's not fleas and I have her on Frontline. She also has no hot spots. It seems to be very general and not one particular area. We've tried some shampoos, adding oil to her food, and I also switched her to a grain free formula of dog food and none of that seems to have helped. I can't say the itching scratching and biting is excessive but it sure is more than normal. Any ideas or suggestions?

I have a dog that does the same for May- Oct. I use Benedryl. Does the job fine. (Dog is on a good flea/tick control product ( Nexgard), so I know it's not pests.

by **Dakotazeb** » Fri May 19, 2017 5:00 pm

We are way beyond Benedryl. Benedryl did absolutely nothing.

by **Dakotazeb** » Mon May 22, 2017 8:03 pm

Pathology reports on the biopsies indicated NO mites. So now we are back to thinking it might be allergies. Taking her in this week for a blood draw that will be sent in and hopefully be able to determine what it is causing the skin issues. This battle is getting old.

by **Meller** » Tue May 23, 2017 7:08 am

What are you using for bedding? have you changed that?

by **Dakotazeb** » Tue May 23, 2017 7:28 am

Meller wrote:What are you using for bedding? have you changed that?

Whatever sheets that are on our bed!

She is a house dog and we have washed everything and anything that she comes in contact with in fragrance free detergent.

by **luvthemud** » Tue May 23, 2017 6:27 pm

I had a dog that suffered from allergy like symptoms. Tried everything under the sun (new carpet, steam cleaning house, homemade dog food, special baths, water filtration) and was never able to figure it out. Allergies can be tricky because they can be a combination of things.

I apologize if I missed it, but I would have blood tests run, and not for allergies, but for other underlying things. My dog ended up passing at the age of 2 and I am convinced that the allergy symptoms were the result of a deeper issue (kidney/blood).

by **Dakotazeb** » Tue May 23, 2017 6:48 pm

We've had numerous blood tests run (other than for allergies) and came back normal.

by **luvthemud** » Tue May 23, 2017 7:24 pm

Dakotazeb wrote:We've had numerous blood tests run (other than for allergies) and came back normal.

Ugh, so frustrating.

I had my dog seen by a dermatologist and she recommended a prescription food to eliminate it was a protein allergy. I ended up returning the stuff when I found it online for a third of the price and never did give it a try. The stuff smelled horrible and the nutrition didn't seem great, but she seemed pretty certain it would at least help me in my elimination quest.

https://www.chewy.com/royal-canin-veter ... t/dp/35621

by **Dakotazeb** » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:06 pm

Another update on Bree's skin issues. The Cytopoint injection in May really calmed things down and hair started re-growing in the bald spots. The first of June she got a second injection before I sent her to the trainer in Colorado. The Cytopoint injections are to last 4-8 weeks. Got her back from the trainer after 2 months and her coat was great and he had no issues with her. But as the Cytopoint started wearing off we observed increased itching and some biting so a couple weeks ago she was given another injection. At the time we had the vet do a blood draw to be sent in for allergy testing. Got the results yesterday. She tested positive to numerous things. In the food panel she was positive to Chicken, Lamb, Peanut, Rabbit, Salmon, Tomato, Turkey and Yeast. In Trees she was only positive to Box Elder and Maple. Nothing in Grasses. Weeds showed positive to Dock Mix/Sheep Sorrel and Russian Thistle. Insect panel she was positive for Flea and Mosquito. In other areas she was positive to Grain mites, Storage mites and Dust mites. The indoor panel showed positive to Cat dander, Dust mites and Feather mix.

Okay, so now we know I have an allergy dog. Not quite sure where or how we proceed from hear. Through out this process I have kept the breeder informed. This dog has a great pedigree (see pedigree for Bree in my signature) and the breeder claims no issues with other pups from this litter. At this point what responsibility does the breeder have? I got the dog in January when she was 6 months old. I feel the breeder should do something to make this right. I don't want to give the dog back as we have really bonded with this little gal and my trainer says she is the "real deal" and has tremendous potential as a field trial dog. But my expenses have already far exceeded what I paid for her and it appears these expenses will be an ongoing issue. I feel at a minimum the breeder should refund the purchase price. Is that reasonable?

by **shags** » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:24 pm

I think it's reasonable to ask the breeder for a purchase-price refund, and also it would be reasonable for the breeder to refuse.
Ask, because what do you have to lose?

Allergies indicate a problem with the immune system, so may be an individual thing, just bad luck.

My vet says he has had great results in allergic dogs with a medication called Apoquel. Recommended to my daughter for her very allergic terrier, it helps a lot.

Good luck, dealing with allergies is so difficult. I hope you find something that works for your dog.

by **Dakotazeb** » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:56 pm

shags, I'm familiar with Apoquel. It appears to be quite safe. It can only be given to dogs over 1 year of age so until a month ago it wasn't an option for me. That's why my vet recommended Cytopoint back in May. Actually Cytopoint and Apoquel are made by the same company, Zoetisis. Both are quite safe compared to steroids and my vet felt that Cytopoint may be the safer of the two, plus it's given every two months instead of daily and is cheaper. An injection costs me $66. Apoquel given once per day is around $2/tablet.

Cytopoint has really worked well for us. Just wish she doesn't have to be on it for life.

by **dog dr** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:26 am

the lab that did the allergy testing can make hypo-sensitization shots for you.

by **cjhills** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:58 am

If your breeder refunds your purchase price, you should have to return the dog.
This should probably have been discussed before spending the money.
This would not be a breeding dog. not a lot of incentive for trialing......Cj

by **shags** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:20 pm

A lot of people trial for the fun of it...good times with other dog folks, and good times for and with the dogs. Breeding doesn't have to be the ultimate goal.

by **Dakotazeb** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:22 pm

cjhills wrote:If your breeder refunds your purchase price, you should have to return the dog.
This should probably have been discussed before spending the money.
This would not be a breeding dog. not a lot of incentive for trialing......Cj

As far as the breeder goes, I'm not going to waste my time and effort. So that's a mute issue.

Now, as far as not breeding the dog and not a lot of incentive for trialing. I did not purchase this dog to breed. Not that I might not, but in all likelihood I'll have her spayed around age 2. I suppose if you're into breeding and having a champion trial dog will increase the price of your pups then I can see your point. But that's not me. I run NSTRA trials for the fun and enjoyment of it. My last dog was a NSTRA champion and a spayed female. That dog and I had a blast. Hope to do the same with this one. It's all about FUN! Not $$$$$.

by **MGIII** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:20 pm

Dakotazeb wrote:
cjhills wrote:If your breeder refunds your purchase price, you should have to return the dog.
This should probably have been discussed before spending the money.
This would not be a breeding dog. not a lot of incentive for trialing......Cj

As far as the breeder goes, I'm not going to waste my time and effort. So that's a mute issue.

Now, as far as not breeding the dog and not a lot of incentive for trialing. I did not purchase this dog to breed. Not that I might not, but in all likelihood I'll have her spayed around age 2. I suppose if you're into breeding and having a champion trial dog will increase the price of your pups then I can see your point. But that's not me. I run NSTRA trials for the fun and enjoyment of it. My last dog was a NSTRA champion and a spayed female. That dog and I had a blast. Hope to do the same with this one. It's all about FUN! Not $$$$$.

Exactly.