Parasites

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Sharon
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Parasites

Post by Sharon » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:12 pm

I didn't want to take the heartworm meds thread off topic, but in reading there , it appears that many give a worm control all year. Are these dogs that live in a kennel outside?
In decades of dogs, I have never had a yearly worm test turn up positive. Never given anti worm meds.
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dog dr
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Re: Parasites

Post by dog dr » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:29 pm

If your giving heartworm prevention, your giving intestinal worm prevention.

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Re: Parasites

Post by shags » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:35 pm

I use Sentinel Spectrum from May to October to cover just about everything. It’s fairly pricey at around $10 a dose, but I work for my vet and get a good deal. Because we trial, my dogs are in areas where lots of other dogs have been, and who knows how other people keep parasites down. We also have coons, possums,feral cats, and yotes around and they carry parasites. Not to mention the tapeworm infested rabbits that my Jagd catches and shares. Ugh. If I see tape segs in winter they get straight prazaquantal, and they might get a course of fenbenzadole during winter if I think it’s warranted.

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Re: Parasites

Post by Steve007 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:49 pm

Sharon wrote:I didn't want to take the heartworm meds thread off topic, but in reading there , it appears that many give a worm control all year. Are these dogs that live in a kennel outside?
In decades of dogs, I have never had a yearly worm test turn up positive. Never given anti worm meds.
Do you think your location in the frozen North may be a factor? My dogs are housedogs and are on heartgard year round,but they certainly get out around other dogs at training, shows, trials and hunting. Unrelated to mosquitoes (which can live indoors), hook and roundworms are certainly not predictably dormant. Depends on the weather.

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Up North
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Re: Parasites

Post by Up North » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:00 pm

Our four dogs are house dogs, but they are outside with enough free time to eat who knows what. Last March our two year old setter ended up with round worms, so I decided to just treat them year round.

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Re: Parasites

Post by Fozzie's Mom » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:03 am

Steve007 wrote:
Sharon wrote:I didn't want to take the heartworm meds thread off topic, but in reading there , it appears that many give a worm control all year. Are these dogs that live in a kennel outside?
In decades of dogs, I have never had a yearly worm test turn up positive. Never given anti worm meds.
Do you think your location in the frozen North may be a factor? My dogs are housedogs and are on heartgard year round,but they certainly get out around other dogs at training, shows, trials and hunting. Unrelated to mosquitoes (which can live indoors), hook and roundworms are certainly not predictably dormant. Depends on the weather.
I'm thinking that plays a pretty big factor, too. Parasites just don't get as much opportunity to take hold of an environment with such long cold weather.

Here in the Pittsburgh suburbs, we're seeing "city couch potatos" coming up positive for parasites as well as the outdoor working hunters. We're also seeing farm dogs testing negative on no preventative at all (but that's rare). Exposure plays a really big role, but I think even more important is the dog's immune system. A really strong, highly functioning healthy immune system should be able to combat intestinal parasites (heartworm infection is a whole 'nother issue) on it's own.

I'm wondering if Sharon has just been one of the lucky ones with exceptionally healthy dogs, or if it's an effect of the location? Anyone else in her area to chime in?

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Re: Parasites

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:05 pm

I live in IL and have never had to worm my dogs since I have used Ivomec for heartworm. Even our bitch and her pups were free and I couldn't believe it. Never had puppies that I didn't need to worm at least for roundworms.
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Re: Parasites

Post by cjhills » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:25 pm

The only worms we ever have are round and tapeworms. I have had hook worms in dogs from the South. we worm the puppies at 5 6 and 7 weeks with Pyrantel. I have recently had to young male dog. have round worms at about a old year. I think that monthly worming does not get all the worms..............Cj

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Re: Parasites

Post by Fozzie's Mom » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:36 pm

cjhills wrote:The only worms we ever have are round and tapeworms. I have had hook worms in dogs from the South. we worm the puppies at 5 6 and 7 weeks with Pyrantel. I have recently had to young male dog. have round worms at about a old year. I think that monthly worming does not get all the worms..............Cj
You're very correct! It gets the majority of the most common types, but not ALL of the most common types, and certainly not ALL. For instance, pretty much the only thing that gets tapeworm is praziquantel.

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Re: Parasites

Post by shags » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:01 pm

Monthly worming doesn’t interrupt the worms’ life cycle.

Worm, then repeat in 10 days to two weeks.

First worming kills adults, but leaves eggs/larvae. The second worming takes care of the now-mature eggs/larvae before they are old enough to reproduce.

Once that’s done, the monthly helps as long as there isn’t heavy exposure to more eggs.

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Re: Parasites

Post by DennisCanfield » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:13 am

You must always put a sharp eye on both outdoor and indoor to protect your dog from heartworm and other parasites. Preventive medicines are not all that expensive and much effective. It's very important and essential for your dogs that keep their area neat & clean is highly important.

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Re: Parasites

Post by isonychia » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:30 am

After a two year battle with giardiasis I picked up from riding a mountain bike through cow covered trails I started looking at any way to prevent another life altering experience with parasites, including routine worming. The real worming drugs can be hard on a dog, their livers and other organs, they also do not usually treat giardiasis or crypto. I still do not give routine worming meds, if you see parasites in their stool, do it. PS, giardiasis can be very very hard to diagnose in a dog and can be transfered to humans, can be very hard to treat and can cause lifelong damage. So, worry about that.

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Re: Parasites

Post by shags » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:24 am

I'm more comcerned with the effects of a parasite load than with effects of wormers or other parasite treatments. Modern meds are safe ( not to say have no ill effects ever) if dosed as directed, and not overdone. Some parasites are not visible in or on stool, so if in doibt, have a fecal float done.

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Re: Parasites

Post by isonychia » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:52 am

Most of the parasites that are not visible are also not killed by universal dewormers though I believe. I treat my pigeons for coccidiosis twice a year with alternating treatments and also do a canker treatment, sometimes this is a 3 in 1 that includes deworming. But in dogs, I just don't know that it is worth it, at least not after talking with my Vet, who I trust very much. That being said, I have a microscope that I use for diagnosing my honey bees and have been known to throw a smear on, could do a float pretty easily at home as well, saline makes the parasite eggs float to the surface of the test tube.

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Re: Parasites

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:20 am

Why do you treat pigeons for cocci twice a year? I never treat for anything till there is a problem since treatments do not prevent. My birds have never been wormed and had never had a problem. I also have not wormed my dogs since I started using Ivomec for heartworm as I just can not find any sign we have a problem. Always had to treat for Roundworms in the past though. Overmedication is a greater problem that under in many cases. I want my animals and birds to produce their own immunity as much as possible.

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Re: Parasites

Post by shags » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:40 am

isonychia wrote:Most of the parasites that are not visible are also not killed by universal dewormers though I believe. I treat my pigeons for coccidiosis twice a year with alternating treatments and also do a canker treatment, sometimes this is a 3 in 1 that includes deworming. But in dogs, I just don't know that it is worth it, at least not after talking with my Vet, who I trust very much. That being said, I have a microscope that I use for diagnosing my honey bees and have been known to throw a smear on, could do a float pretty easily at home as well, saline makes the parasite eggs float to the surface of the test tube.
Lucky you to have scope!

Saline isn't exacly the gold standard for floats, but it helps with dx *some* parasites. Sodium nitrate works better. Smears are not very reliable.
I can give you instructions on how to do a proper float if you want, just pm me. It isn't difficult.

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Re: Parasites

Post by Meller » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:31 pm

ezzy333 wrote:Why do you treat pigeons for cocci twice a year? I never treat for anything till there is a problem since treatments do not prevent. My birds have never been wormed and had never had a problem. I also have not wormed my dogs since I started using Ivomec for heartworm as I just can not find any sign we have a problem. Always had to treat for Roundworms in the past though. Overmedication is a greater problem that under in many cases. I want my animals and birds to produce their own immunity as much as possible.

Ezzy
But you do run some apple cider vinegar in their water, every so often, don't you?

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Re: Parasites

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:01 pm

I use to and probably well again since it does have an effect on their digestion and the acidity of the gut.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: Parasites

Post by isonychia » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:44 pm

ezzy333 wrote:Why do you treat pigeons for cocci twice a year? I never treat for anything till there is a problem since treatments do not prevent. My birds have never been wormed and had never had a problem. I also have not wormed my dogs since I started using Ivomec for heartworm as I just can not find any sign we have a problem. Always had to treat for Roundworms in the past though. Overmedication is a greater problem that under in many cases. I want my animals and birds to produce their own immunity as much as possible.

Ezzy
Coccidiosis is thought to be somewhat persistently occurring in pigeons, kind of like varrao mites in bees now. We don't want to build resistance so we swap treatments, similar to bees. Basically, I went without treating for cocci for a couple of years and my pigeon count went down by about 50%, this is anecdotal. What I have read seems to suggest that cocci and lower their immune fighting capabilities for other diseases if the load gets too high. So cocci doesn't kill them directly but it makes things difficult. My problems seem to also have started when I switched to a hand mixed feed, I don't know about that red wheat I was using it was pretty dirty, had ground up birds and pigeon crap in it. Who Knows! I am not very fond of treating anything, but it seems to be the world we live in now. ESPECIALLY with honey bees.

Shags...
I would love the float instructions! The smear I read was better for giardiasis, so that is all I have really used it for, that and curiosity. I hate to be gross, but if you ever see plant cell walls in a stool sample for the first time, you will think for sure those have to be some kind of parasite egg! You can blend up a cup full of bees in some water and ID nosema apis I believe, also you can look for tracheal mites but a dissecting scope is better for that. Scopes are fun, but they do collect a lot of dust in their down time. You can get some really good scopes for about 1/10th of what they used to be, I guess China finally figured that one out.


Also funny, apple cider vinegar is good in bee syrup, in those cases when you have to feed them. Birds and Bees...

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Re: Parasites

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:57 pm

Cocci is and has been present in most all animals and is actually part of healthy living.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: Parasites

Post by Fozzie's Mom » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:57 pm

ezzy333 wrote:Cocci is and has been present in most all animals and is actually part of healthy living.
Truth. Cocci is a type of bacteria commonly found in a healthy gut (to be more specific, it is one type of bacterial shape, of which there are many forms. . . .streptococci (strep throat) is a type of cocci bacteria). Coccidia, on the other hand, which is the "bug" in question here, is a protozoa which is commonly present in the environment but which can take over opportunistically and cause an infection involving diarrhea and the like (coccidiosis).

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Re: Parasites

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:40 pm

Fozzie's Mom wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:Cocci is and has been present in most all animals and is actually part of healthy living.
Truth. Cocci is a type of bacteria commonly found in a healthy gut (to be more specific, it is one type of bacterial shape, of which there are many forms. . . .streptococci (strep throat) is a type of cocci bacteria). Coccidia, on the other hand, which is the "bug" in question here, is a protozoa which is commonly present in the environment but which can take over opportunistically and cause an infection involving diarrhea and the like (coccidiosis).
Very True
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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