Underweight GSP

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Ogie Ogelthorpe
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Underweight GSP

Post by Ogie Ogelthorpe » Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:27 pm

Long time lurker, first post. I have a 3 year old 37 pound GSP. She's always been small. And always very active. Got 10 acres and all she wants to do is run and hunt. A couple months ago I let her out at night and she came back a few minutes later, her e collar on her flank was scratched up and her back was dusty. Like she was trying to get under the shed to get a critter. Got her inside and noticed her lip a little bloody. I brush the dust off her back and see blood on the ground. Whatever she got into got her on both sides of her rear. Left flank. Both front legs. And both sides of her face. That was a Saturday night and she had yet to eat, wasn't in the mood after that. Didn't eat Sunday. Took her to the vet Monday morning. Got her boosted on shots, wounds dressed, and blood work taken. She was down to 34 pounds, but was in pain and hadn't eaten or drank much from Saturday to Monday afternoon. Vet was most concerned about her weight and said she was probably a 2 on the bcs chart and ALT level which was in the 300's. Been trying to get her more calories but she's just not interested in eating more than 2-1/4 to 2-1/2 cups of pro plan performance. On rare occasion I can get 3 cups down her. Tried coaxing her with some shredded cheese per the vet, but despite mixing it she'll just pick the cheese out. She'll eat, but then counter surf looking for something else despite having food left in the dish. She's back up to 36.5-37 pounds. Chris Goegan has had her a few times, first as an 8 month old(was 34lbs then) and even then he commented on her being a little thin and asked if she was dewormed. When I picked her up after 2 months with him he was less concerned and just thought she burned it off as fast as she takes it in. With the elevated ALT levels the vet was slightly concerned about liver shunts. But the only symptoms is being a little small sized and skinny. I know pro plan performance is up there calorie wise, but wondering if there's something else to get a few more lbs on her I could try. I'm due to take her back into the vet for blood work to see if the ALT was a fluke from the tussle or if it's something that needs to be looked at. Appreciate any advice, criticism, or suggestions.

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Re: Underweight GSP

Post by mask » Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:21 am

I have a pointer female ( a rescue) a lot like your's. The difference is she would try to eat the whole sack of dog food if I let her. She was 24 lbs. when we brought her home, had been starved, and stays at about 32 now but she is still to thin. So in hunting season I supplement with beef suet and elk scraps mostly fat. She does'n't gain to be sure but she maintains at about 30 lbs. Maybe this will help your little gyp as well.

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Re: Underweight GSP

Post by Ogie Ogelthorpe » Tue Apr 26, 2022 11:13 am

Every time I've tried something with supplementing, like satin balls, ground elk, etc...after a few days she won't eat kibble and hold out for the dessert.

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deseeker
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Re: Underweight GSP

Post by deseeker » Tue Apr 26, 2022 1:35 pm

Do a web search for-- Satin Ball Recipes. These have a lot of calories in them and should be used as a supplement after their regular meal.
I would also try useing a little more of their PPP and adding chicken broth(un salted only) to the PPP and mix it well together --that way my dogs would eat more of their regular food because the broth made it taste better. Good luck adding weight to a high energy dog :D

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Garrison
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Re: Underweight GSP

Post by Garrison » Tue Apr 26, 2022 3:28 pm

During the winter I have three weeks off through the holidays. This time of the season, in often bitter cold conditions and long days afield prove to be the toughest on my dogs. They can get a little ragged looking if I don’t up the calorie intake. I do feed more pro plan, but too much bulk can be tough on digestion. I have had good luck adding a little fat in oil and an egg yolk or two. Eggs yolks (no whites unless cooked) are fairly cheap for the short time they need them, and a couple yolks can add a quick 110 calories of balanced easily digested nutrition. Add some warm water with them, and they don’t stay in the bowl very long.

If your dog is typically a picky eater that is an owner issue. They need to be trained to eat. Put the food down for 5-10 minutes and what is not gone gets picked up and not brought out until the next day’s feeding. They learn pretty quick that when it’s time to eat, they better get busy.

All that said, I have seen exceedingly few dogs who were not completely neglected that were way too skinny.

Garrison
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Sharon
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Re: Underweight GSP

Post by Sharon » Tue Apr 26, 2022 3:47 pm

"Eggs yolks (no whites unless cooked)" quote Garrison.

What is the reason for that Garrison?
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Garrison
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Re: Underweight GSP

Post by Garrison » Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:21 pm

Sharon wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 3:47 pm
"Eggs yolks (no whites unless cooked)" quote Garrison.

What is the reason for that Garrison?
Egg whites contain high levels of avidin, a protein that binds biotin and have read if overdone it can cause a deficiency. When cooked it lessens the effect. Granted, it would probably take a whole lot more than a couple raw eggs added to some kibble for that to occur, but I rather play it safe and I am not cooking for my dogs.

The main reason I only give the yolks is they consist of almost all fat and vitamins, the whites are high in protein. A skinny dog eating plenty of pro plan doesn’t need any more protein. Higher protein can be counter productive to gaining weight. They need more fat and egg yolks are a rich very digestible source.

Some here have reported better luck putting weight on dogs with a 24/20 ration instead of a 30/20. Does seem to make sense if you take a look at some of the senior and weight management feeds, which are typically pretty high in protein and lower in fat.

Garrison
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Sharon
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Re: Underweight GSP

Post by Sharon » Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:44 pm

OK Thank you.
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Re: Underweight GSP

Post by Garrison » Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:51 pm

Sharon wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:44 pm
OK Thank you.
👍🏻
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Re: Underweight GSP

Post by Mosby » Tue Apr 26, 2022 5:53 pm

I got a started GSP in 2020 that was small, skinny and physically immature and she wasn't a big eater.

I switched her to PPP Sport Salmon and Rice because it has more calories than the Chicken PPP. I also make something my wife calls "mush" but is really just a food topper, to encourage eating and get her extra fat and nutrients.

In a crock pot:

- a couple lbs of fatty beef stew meat
- a package of Tyson chicken liver
- a package of Tyson chicken gizzards
- a can of sardines/water w/no salt
- 1/3 cup of hemp hearts
- a splash of apple cider vinegar
- a few tbls of sorghum molasses
- a few cups of water

I cook this for several hours and let it cool down. I then put in through a blender until it's ground up and freeze in 2 cup containers. I keep a container in the fridge as needed. Rinse and repeat. I get several quarts of food out of it.

This time of year, I put in a few tablespoons into the kibble and add some water and make a gravy. Dogs love it. During the season, I might get up to 1/3 to 1/2 a cup a day to add extra fat and nutrients to their diet. I use this instead of canned dog food most of the time.

My GSP has really filled out. She will never be a big dog but she has gotten "thicker". Her coat is shiny, stools are firm and she has really grown into her body. She only eats about 2.5 cups a day. I just got a new Vizsla pup and feeding him the same with the same result.

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Re: Underweight GSP

Post by Ogie Ogelthorpe » Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:36 pm

Appreciate all the responses. I'm a little annoyed about the vet telling me she was underweight and needing more calories. Especially after I told them she hadn't eaten in 2 days after she got in her tussle with what we're assuming was a raccoon. But vet was thinking coyote. Then telling me her ALT's were in the 300's which could mean liver shunts. Honestly you don't see many GSPS around here and the vets are used to seeing fat labs every day. She's 37.5 tonight. If she got to 40 I'd be happy. She got really picky after the vet visit and since then have been far more diligent. No treats. 2 cups of ppp in the morning which she's never eaten will get out on the counter. She'll be in her crate when I leave for work. She literally opens the house door before I get to my truck if I'm not in the house and she is. I come home for lunch and she'll eat maybe a cup. Back in the crate. At dinner I'll add another cup (so 3 for the day. She'll usually leave about 1/2 cup. So she'll eat about 2-1/2 cups. On rare occasion she'll eat all 3.

I've given her satin balls in the past after her meal. But after a few days she'll hold out for dessert and not eat kibble. I had heard about only the egg yolk but wasn't sure why. Have yet to try that.
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Garrison
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Re: Underweight GSP

Post by Garrison » Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:55 pm

Mosby wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 5:53 pm
I got a started GSP in 2020 that was small, skinny and physically immature and she wasn't a big eater.

I switched her to PPP Sport Salmon and Rice because it has more calories than the Chicken PPP. I also make something my wife calls "mush" but is really just a food topper, to encourage eating and get her extra fat and nutrients.

In a crock pot:

- a couple lbs of fatty beef stew meat
- a package of Tyson chicken liver
- a package of Tyson chicken gizzards
- a can of sardines/water w/no salt
- 1/3 cup of hemp hearts
- a splash of apple cider vinegar
- a few tbls of sorghum molasses
- a few cups of water

I cook this for several hours and let it cool down. I then put in through a blender until it's ground up and freeze in 2 cup containers. I keep a container in the fridge as needed. Rinse and repeat. I get several quarts of food out of it.

This time of year, I put in a few tablespoons into the kibble and add some water and make a gravy. Dogs love it. During the season, I might get up to 1/3 to 1/2 a cup a day to add extra fat and nutrients to their diet. I use this instead of canned dog food most of the time.

My GSP has really filled out. She will never be a big dog but she has gotten "thicker". Her coat is shiny, stools are firm and she has really grown into her body. She only eats about 2.5 cups a day. I just got a new Vizsla pup and feeding him the same with the same result.
Your wife allows you to cook that concoction in the house, and in the family crockpot and blender? 🤣

I instantly thought of a guy I worked with when reading this. He came to work looking like a wreck. When I asked if everything was okay, he said he and his wife had got into it the night before. I would never ask why, but he volunteered that he had disconnected the plumbing on the kitchen sink’s garbage disposal and placed a 5 gallon bucket under the cabinet so he could grind chum for a shark fishing trip. I guess it overflowed a bit. 🤦🏻‍♂️

Not that your crockpot is on par, I just imaging my wife might think so. Although on a positive note, my friend’s misery was the inspiration for a pretty nice fish cleaning station and yes we put an extra powerful garbage disposal in the specs.
A47081C8-DAE2-42B6-BC51-611ABF542C37.jpeg

Garrison
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Re: Underweight GSP

Post by Mosby » Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:38 pm

What a great set up. My crock pot is not even remotely on par with that....lol. I use a crock pot that was left behind in a rental property we previously bought and the blender is one of those Ninja things that works surprising well. That said, my wife had surgery and chemo two years ago and my oldest Vizsla never left her side. Followed her everywhere. Still does. Ever since then, I can get away with a lot more if its for the dogs.

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Re: Underweight GSP

Post by slistoe » Tue Apr 26, 2022 11:24 pm

If that is the current condition of your dog in the picture I am really at a loss to see what your concern is.

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Re: Underweight GSP

Post by Garrison » Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:30 am

I agree with Slistoe. If this is her current condition, she looks good to me. I do have a couple suggestions:
1) I and most others start feeding their dogs once a day in the late afternoon or evening when they are around a year old. Let her digest her food when she is in an inactive state at night. This also has the benefit of letting her exercise with an empty stomach.

2) It might be a good time to expand your horizons on the vet front. I would normally refrain from this suggestion, just like I would never tell someone else to get a new doctor. That is their business, but it sounds like you may have justifiably lost faith in his or her opinion. Your vet and your doctor are opinions you need to have faith in, never hurts to get another opinion.

Garrison
Last edited by Garrison on Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Underweight GSP

Post by Garrison » Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:53 am

Mosby wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:38 pm
What a great set up. My crock pot is not even remotely on par with that....lol. I use a crock pot that was left behind in a rental property we previously bought and the blender is one of those Ninja things that works surprising well. That said, my wife had surgery and chemo two years ago and my oldest Vizsla never left her side. Followed her everywhere. Still does. Ever since then, I can get away with a lot more if its for the dogs.
Special circumstances, special animal. Wishing you and your wife continued success in the ability to watch that event get smaller and smaller in the rearview mirror.

Garrison
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Re: Underweight GSP

Post by deseeker » Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:21 am

After you posting the picture of your dog, I'm with slistoe -- the dog looks in great shape. I also agree with a once a day night feeding, it lets the dog digest the food and they can run on an empty stomach the next day without the bloat worry JMO. Good luck with the dog.

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Re: Underweight GSP

Post by Ogie Ogelthorpe » Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:52 am

Thanks to all. My first GSP. In that picture she was right at 37lbs, about a week ago after she brought me a squirrel. The vet trip she was 34 because she hadn't eaten or drank in over 2 days because whatever critter she got into that tore her up and was in some pain. The tone of the vet saying she needs more calories sounded like they were ready to call the ASPCA. I think it's a breed that isn't seen often around here and the vets have been conditioned on seeing fat labs. Zia appreciates it too.
Last edited by Ogie Ogelthorpe on Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Underweight GSP

Post by Mosby » Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:02 pm

Garrison wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:53 am
Mosby wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:38 pm
What a great set up. My crock pot is not even remotely on par with that....lol. I use a crock pot that was left behind in a rental property we previously bought and the blender is one of those Ninja things that works surprising well. That said, my wife had surgery and chemo two years ago and my oldest Vizsla never left her side. Followed her everywhere. Still does. Ever since then, I can get away with a lot more if its for the dogs.
Special circumstances, special animal. Wishing you and your wife continued success in the ability to watch that event get smaller and smaller in the rearview mirror.

Garrison
Thank you.

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Re: Underweight GSP

Post by greg jacobs » Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:21 am

I have a dog that's not a motivated eater. I've always picked up his food because I also have a very motivated eater. A dog like that doesn't care if you pick up their food. This dog would just sit and not start eating. Would skip days and hardly eat. Put ppp and victor hi pro plus down side by side. He ate the victor. It's a 30 20 food. He now starts eating when I put his food down. His coat is better now. Toppings never helped this dog. The typical suggestions just don't work on a non motivated eater. I know many are stuck on ppp. That doesn't mean it's right for every dog. If they don't eat it it doesn't matter how good the food is Try the victor hi pro plus. Feed twice a day. 1/3 then 2/3rds. The victor hi pro plus is also 1.25 a pound vs 1.75. Brenda at walnut hills and Cheryl at outlander both feed Victor dogfood.

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Re: Underweight GSP

Post by Ogie Ogelthorpe » Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:09 am

I tried most everything with mine. Would put 2 different brands down and she'd always eventually go back to ppp. But she would skip a meal. I stopped giving her all treats and eventually stopped buying them because she'd snag the bag while I'm in the shower.2 to 2-1/2 cups was barely maintaining her weight but she wouldn't eat more. 2 ounces of unsalted chicken stock and 30 seconds in the microwave. She's up to 3-1/2 cups a day no problem. Where she was unmotivated to eat before, now it's as soon as it's down she's interested. Won't eat immediately as she's too amped up but within a few minutes she'll start. Still no treats though. During the season she was looking really ragged. Don't want to post that pic. It's an extreme example, but you'd think I was withholding food.

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