Supplementing for Performance

Post by **grant** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:01 pm

On past hunting trips, I’ve never really noticed bell tiring too much. However, during last weekend’s field trial, racing against the time helped me notice a drastic drop-off in bell’s intensity. This was during the second brace. On the way home bell slept. She was exhausted! She seemed more exhausted than our normal 3 to 4 hour hunts. I still don’t understand why 2 30min braces would work her harder than a long hunt?

Regardless, it just motivated me to help take care of her nutritional needs. When she hunts, she hunts with every ounce of that 45lb body! It doesn’t matter if she’s nutritionally/physically prepared or not, she’ll hunt. That’s more of a reason for me to assume responsibility for her.

So, the first thing that came to mind was this post:
http://www.gundogforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=563

More specifically, where I made the comment that I don’t feed bell much before a hunt, and posted this link:
http://www.qu.org/main/magazine/q_mj_04/q_mj_04.1.cfm

So tonight I’ve been doing some research and I’ve found some interesting info. In the November/December 2004 edition of the shooting sportsman, I found the article “Supplementing for performance” by George Hickox. The quick and dirty is this:

George quotes Arleigh Reynolds, a DVM, “In our studies of sled dogs, immediate post-exercise supplementation with maltodextrin at 1.5 grams per kilogram of body weight has led to recovery of 50% of the glycogen lost during exercise within four hours and nearly complete repletion of glycogen store within 24 hours.”

Basically, after a hard exercise, there is an estimated 30 min. time period when glycogen storage can be refilled quickly. After that 30 min. window, a supplementation with glycogen has reduced benefits.

My first thoughts where, George, could you give us a clear dosage, what’s up with the 1.5 grams per kilogram of body weight? Lets see, 1 pound equals about 450 grams….. sigh! My brain is to tired to figure this up. So who is this Reynolds guy anyway, and maybe he gives more info on the web? Off to google. Results led me to a few pages:

http://www.bluestreakracing.com/drivers/reynolds.htm
http://www.isdra.org/Profiles/Frame.asp?ISDRA=6421

Like most google’ers I took my first search results as fact and truth. =) Not really, but this Arleigh Reynolds dude looks like he should be taken seriously!

I’m tired of typing so, I’ll get to the point. The Arleigh Reynolds quoted by George is the same guy that provided info in the QU article here:

http://www.qu.org/main/magazine/q_mj_04/q_mj_04.1.cfm

Interesting huh? Kind of. So, I’ll still stick to my guns about keeping feeding down to an extreme minimum before a hunt, but as suggested before on this forum, I’ll supplement bell as needed during hunts and trials with a performance bar or something similar.

Any thoughts on this?

Post by **grant** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:27 pm

Does anyone supplement during the hunt, if so, what do you use and how much?

Country-Side Breeders · Post by **Country-Side Breeders** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:46 pm

The dogs were given the performance bars (called VIVE) while they were out in Iowa (they ended up with 29 tail feathers to bring home to the kids

). For some dogs, it was like hitting them with a jolt of caffiene and for the others it didn't make a difference. I also sent along some powder, called K-9 Restart V.F., and that seemed to help. The guys were also sneaking them biscuits throughout the day too...tsk, tsk, tsk...when Mom's away....

snips · Post by **snips** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:35 am

There is no substitute for being in shape, that said, all we ever do is pop them the 1/2 Performance Bar before a run and 1/2 after. That is mostly in the warmer temps, which we have alot of. Growing up will help the stamina on your dog the most Grant. If you are working for a fast moving 100% performance, than you need to work her for that. The dog will set the pace for a long hunt, and they earn to know the difference in a competition and a hunt. Nothing really gets a dog in shape like hours of hunting, but when you want a dog hitting it hard for 30 min to an hour they really need to be worked that way. Does this make sense to you?

Post by **grant** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:25 am

That makes since Brenda. I need to work bell more on the anaerobic side of things I guess.

I just found this, it seems to fit the thread.

Aerobic vs. Anaerobic

Anaerobic exercise requires moving at an increased pace or with greater effort. Exercising this way burns more calories but results in a greater demand for oxygen which cannot be delivered in sufficient quantities to allow cells to continue burning fat. When we breath heavy we start to develop an oxygen debt and muscle cells switch to burning mainly carbohydrates, this fuel burns quickly and does not require oxygen.

I think I'm getting this right. Your dogs hauling butt, which is an anaerobic activity. An oxygen debt occurs and muscles start burning carbohydrates. Without a proper glycogen store, the dog will bottom out.

The QU article did mention that a high carb diet could make the muscles more dependent on its glycogen store. It also mentioned,

In a thin, well-conditioned hunting dog there is close to 50 times as much energy stored in fat as there is in glycogen (carbohydrate).

llewgor · Post by **llewgor** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 2:54 pm

Grant
google maltodextrin and you'll find more interesting reads about it written by body builders and how they use it. I also thought that article in qu was interesting because it was written by a purina employee asking question to a vet who works for purina and his sled team is sponsor by purina.

llewgor · Post by **llewgor** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 2:12 am

Grant
Shooting Sportsman has a article about Supplementing for Performance by George Hickox that I thought you might be interested in. It's in the nov. / dec. issue. He also gives 4 websites about canine performance supplements.
1. www.proplanperformance.com
2.www.elements-nutrition.com
3.www.annamaet.com
4.www.nutrazyme.com

Post by **grant** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 6:53 pm

Thanks Billy...

I may have that mag.... I'll check...

sdgord · Post by **sdgord** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 12:27 am

Hi all, in supplementing during a hunt we use the Purina Performance bars and feed them according to the directions. They have seemed to do the job for us. Some of our jaunts require a 2 hour or better hunt before we can get back the vehicle. I prefer to feed performance year round. We work our dogs in the off season three to four days a week. Typically one to two hour sessions with considerable energy burned off. In all I would have to say that the performance bars do the job I need in keeping the dogs energized.SDGORD