need advise on switching dog food

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birddogger
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need advise on switching dog food

Post by birddogger » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:24 am

Hello everyone, I recently discovered the forum and am enjoying it, but this is my first post. I am feeding my GSP'S Purina One and am getting ready to switch food. I have narrowed down to two choices. Black Gold and Arkat Enhance. I have read great things about Black Gold, but Enhance looks good too and I can get it a couple of miles from my house for half the price of Purina One. My concern is the first ingrediant in Enhance is chicken by product meal, instead of chicken meal. Is this a bad thing? I would appreciate any advise on this.
Thanks in advance and I apologize if I was a little long.

shets114
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Post by shets114 » Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:26 am

By products and corn are more a difference of personal opinion than the way it will affect your dog.

Arkat produces a quality food higher in K/cals than most on the market and produced in there own facility controled by them. They also hold a Superior rating by the American Institute of Bakers. This is a rating only held by a small percentage of food producers in the market today.

Have you looked at the VF formula from Arkat?

The meat protein in the VF formula is Chicken Meal.

Which formulas from both are you looking at to compare?

I am somewhat biased on the opinion though. I have used the food for a few years after switching from other Pro Plan and other similiar foods higher and lower in quality. I also sell it along with other foods higher and lower in quality. I chose it because of how it affected my dogs. I also toured the plant as well as touring other plants prior to bringing it on. They by far exceeded my expectations. The cleanliness of the plant and quality of the product impressed me.

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birddogger
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Need help on switching dog food

Post by birddogger » Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:59 am

I appreciate your reply. The Arkat VF formula is not available in my area. I was comparing the Black Gold performance formula to the Enhance endurance formula.

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big steve46
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Post by big steve46 » Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:31 am

Any good quality brand will work well. Black Gold seems to have good formulas, as they are very similar to Diamond.
big steve

shets114
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Post by shets114 » Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:43 pm

Are you referring to this performance formula? http://blackgolddogfood.com/performance.htm

It is a Meat Meal base which could consist of any type of Meat Protein. Also usually is very inconsitant in performance.
I have a particular dislike for corn gluten meal others will probably disagree but I find it to be added to boost protein levels without having to use more meat protein. It is also a by product of corn milling and can contain contaminates and high in nitrogen.
It also includes wheat which some dogs may have issues with.
It is also preserved with BHA which in high enough levels is a known carcinagen.
It would also be about 170 K/cals lower in calories than the Endurance formula.
I would be willing to bargain that the meat percentage per bag is much lower also.
That's my two cents worth of what i know.

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Post by birddogger » Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:19 pm

Thanks everyone, it has been helpful. I have made a decision to to with the Enhance.

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Post by ezzy333 » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:48 pm

It is a Meat Meal base which could consist of any type of Meat Protein. Also usually is very inconsitant in performance.
Meat meal is just that, meat. There is little difference in different meats other than some have more fat and slightly less protien. However the meat meal is processed so it all has a set level of protien and fat.
I have a particular dislike for corn gluten meal others will probably disagree but I find it to be added to boost protein levels without having to use more meat protein. It is also a by product of corn milling and can contain contaminates and high in nitrogen.
Some people still have not accepted the fact that corn is a valuable source of carbs and protien. Corn Gluten is added as a vegetable source of protien usually in fairly small amounts in dog food but it helps balance the amino acids that the dog needs. Of course it is high in nitrogen as is every source of protien known to man. You don't have protien if you don't have nitrogen. But nitrogen from the ingredients is not a problem to an animal so it pretty much a non issue.

It also includes wheat which some dogs may have issues with.
It has been determined that wheat, corn, or any other ingredient including meat in a feed could be a problem to an allergic dog. However, this is so rare that it isn't anything to even be concerned about. If it happens you would have to switch feed possibly to solve the problem would be the worse case senario.
It is also preserved with BHA which in high enough levels is a known carcinagen
That is a good reason to not use high levels and since high levels are not needed to keep the food fresher and more healthful for the dog for a longer length of time it too is a non issue. Preservatives were used in animal feeds as well as human food make them safer to use.
It would also be about 170 K/cals lower in calories than the Endurance formula.
I would be willing to bargain that the meat percentage per bag is much lower also.
That's my two cents worth of what i know.

I am sure that this is true if Shets says so. I have never looked at the K/cals in a food so I can't comment on them except it is a hollow statistic since it is based on the process of the feed more than whats in it. You can compress any material including dogfood to make it more dense. But once the dog chews and eats it the compression is gone and it has lost its importance. If you want a comparison check the K/cals per lb against each other and then you have a meaningful figure that will help you make a decission if cals are important to you.

From all I read, either food is good, manufactured by good companies.
Arkat produces a quality food higher in K/cals than most on the market and produced in there own facility controled by them. They also hold a Superior rating by the American Institute of Bakers. This is a rating only held by a small percentage of food producers in the market today.
Just a comment, remember the K/cals refered to is calories per cup and not calories per pound. I have no idea where Arkat would stand in a comparison of calories per pound. It still may be the higher. And it sounds like arkat has a good facility and a good QA program. The American Institute of Bakers rating is a voluntary rating you have to ask for and very very few feed manufacturers ever do. It is really directed to food facilities more than feed manufacturing plants. They all have to meet the GMP's for feed manufacturing as controled by FDA. This is the important rating and every feed manufacturer has to adhere to it if they want to sell their product.

All of this said, both are good feeds and hopefully this will level the playing field and make it easier to make a good choice. There are lots of good feeds out there, find one your dog likes, you can afford, and then stick with it. Your dog will appreciate it.

Ezzy
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Post by shets114 » Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:38 pm

(EZZY) Meat meal is just that, meat. There is little difference in different meats other than some have more fat and slightly less protien. However the meat meal is processed so it all has a set level of protien and fat.


Ezzy I'm not going to get into the definitions again but if you read them you will see that a Meat meal is yes a meat but a combination of all meats. The producer doesn't have to disclose what type. So you get a mixture and yes it can include 4D animals.
If you want to feed your quality food with Meat Meal go ahead. I choose not to. That is my opinion and I feed my dogs not anyone else and I choose not to take chances on inferior products. When I have a choice to choose something a little better in my opinion.

(EZZY) Some people still have not accepted the fact that corn is a valuable source of carbs and protien. Corn Gluten is added as a vegetable source of protien usually in fairly small amounts in dog food but it helps balance the amino acids that the dog needs. Of course it is high in nitrogen as is every source of protien known to man. You don't have protien if you don't have nitrogen. But nitrogen from the ingredients is not a problem to an animal so it pretty much a non issue.

Absolutely nothing wrong with Ground Corn at all.
I choose not to feed it.
Why is Pro Plans and others number 3 ingredient Corn Gluten Meal if it is put in small amounts.
Didn't take much to figure out that once myself and others got away from foods with Gluten Meal in them. Dogs performed better and looked better.

(EZZY) It has been determined that wheat, corn, or any other ingredient including meat in a feed could be a problem to an allergic dog. However, this is so rare that it isn't anything to even be concerned about. If it happens you would have to switch feed possibly to solve the problem would be the worse case senario

See skin issues and such related to grains in food all the time. Can't tell me it isn't a issue. One of the number one reasons people ask me what food to change to. My dog has this my dog has that I want a food without such and such my vet said this my vet said that.

(EZZY) That is a good reason to not use high levels and since high levels are not needed to keep the food fresher and more healthful for the dog for a longer length of time it too is a non issue. Preservatives were used in animal feeds as well as human food make them safer to use.

Hey if you want to smoke Malboro Lights instead of Malboro reds that is your choice.
Yes it takes a large amount than is generally in the dog food but with the mistakes that occur in the industry I am not going to trust the guy at the switch to make sure he doesn't exceed the 200ppm that is deemed safe.

(EZZY)Just a comment, remember the K/cals refered to is calories per cup and not calories per pound. I have no idea where Arkat would stand in a comparison of calories per pound. It still may be the higher

All you have to do is calculate the weight in oz's per cup by the K/cals per cup.
One food is 570 k/cals per cup and its' weight is 4.2 oz per cup equals 2171 calories per pound.
Other is 366 K/cals per cup and its' weight is 3.6 oz per cup equals 1626 calories per pound.
Not a comparison of Black Gold and Arkat. Just a reference. I don't have the numbers on Black Gold.

I'm just a guy with some dogs that I put time into and want the best for the investment of time and money I have in them.
When you figure the total hours of time, gas, equipment etc into the whole thing I don't think it is to much to spend an extra 20 cents a day to buy a food that offers a little more.

Sure my dogs could get along fine on some Meat Meal and Corn. I am sure there are World Champion Dogs that have been fed worse.

I have some beliefs that maybe some don't agree with. You know what they are my beliefs. I offer information to people that want to listen. It is up to them to decide if they want to take it or do the trials and do the reading that I have done and take more years to figure it out.

I was one of them guys that fed that good ol boy stuff for $12.00 a 50#.
You know what my dogs are better off today. You can believe it or not. I have numerous other people that thought the same way. You konw what I can't list the number of people on both hands and feet who come up to me now and tell me how they can't believe the difference in there dogs. Just by feeding a food with a little extra.

So yes I don't work in the manufacturing field of dog food. I work in the field where you see the results.

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